AT&T nerfing its 5G network, Speedtest results are similar to 4G

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, tbake0155 said:

Speed isn't the only change that will come with 5G, the big change with 5G is latency. Since the wavelengths are so much shorter in the higher frequency waves that 5G uses, the latency for consumer wireless connections will be drastically reduced, in the order of possibly a 50 times reduction in latency from 4G.

But is it worth the shitty coverage range and poor building penetration with mmWaves used by 5G? Not to mention the upfront cost consumers have to pay just to use the next gen network that’s only available to a few people? 

[tbake0155]

11 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

But is it worth the shitty coverage range and poor building penetration with mmWaves used by 5G? Not to mention the upfront cost consumers have to pay just to use the next gen network that’s only available to a few people? 

I would argue it has legitimate use cases but it also has shortcomings, as you mentioned.  In rural areas it will not make much sense but in urban areas, where having repeaters in close proximity will generate coverage for a lot more people and for a lot more use cases, it can be effectively implemented.

[This_guy1998]

2 hours ago, captain_to_fire said:

Snip

 

Remember ATT is faking 5G and is simply rebranding their areas that have faster LTE. They did the same thing (even got Apple to play along) when they were slow to roll out LTE by simply taking their faster 3g and rebranding it to 4G (on some devices it was HSPA+).

[Chronified]

5G is moreso for reliability.

If you ran that speedtest 10-15 times on 4G the speeds would start throttling down to ~100mbps. Pings are also way less reliable on 4G, sometimes just randomly dropping your connection for upto a second at a time.

 

Pretty sure 5G is supposed to be a replacement for DSL in areas outside of cities that don't have copper/fibe? The 4G infrastructure costed a LOT to put in place so they charged out the butt for data. 5G is a cheaper rollout so it shouldn't come as a surprise to see 200-500GB home packages with 5G modems. Cell phones also hopping onto 5G is just because they need to stay modern with tech, but 5G wasn't really designed with cell phones in mind.

 

I've tried using a 4G usb, into my modems usb port while my isp was doing "maintenance". Even with being <2km from the cell tower, top of the house, clear sight to the tower, I was getting throttled down to 360p/480p on Netflix and my speeds were going down to sub 100mbps.

Contacted my cell provider and they were just like -shrug- "all I can see is the tower is only being 5-7% utilized at this time, but being throttled is common practice"

Unplugged, replugged, waited, back to 250mbps+. 

This was outside of peak times (5am) and my modem is kept in a very cold area of the house to avoid overheating, the USB dongle was cold.

 

I'll be excited when my areas cell provider rolls out 5G (Northern Ontario, we're like 2 years behind, we just got LTE+ a year ago) to see if there's any improvements with a 5G usb into my modem. Only time will tell

[Fnige]

Why do we even need Over 200mbps for our mobile internet anyways?

[Chronified]

Just now, SlimyPython said:

Why do we even need Over 200mbps for our mobile internet anyways?

 

11 minutes ago, Chronified said:

I've tried using a 4G usb, into my modems usb port while my isp was doing "maintenance". Even with being <2km from the cell tower, top of the house, clear sight to the tower, I was getting throttled down to 360p/480p on Netflix and my speeds were going down to sub 100mbps.

Cell provider makes a great temporary replacement when your home ISP goes down, if you've got unlimited data on a tablet plan (like me) yeah you're not gonna want it to throttle. 5G is supposed to remove throttling I thought? 

[imreloadin]

Bet it still comes with that hefty "5G" price tag though...

[captain_to_fire]

Just now, SlimyPython said:

Why do we even need Over 200mbps for our mobile internet anyways?

It’s more of having more bandwidth and latency below 10ms when needed for Internet of Things, connected cars, connected medical devices, etc. This can be achieved by tapping into mmWaves which carries more bandwidth in exchange of shoddy coverage unless there’s small cells, massive MIMO and beamforming. 

[laminutederire]

1 hour ago, Chronified said:

 

Cell provider makes a great temporary replacement when your home ISP goes down, if you've got unlimited data on a tablet plan (like me) yeah you're not gonna want it to throttle. 5G is supposed to remove throttling I thought? 

Throttling isn't due to the 4G tech most of the time. It's in the best case due to network bottleneck on the bandwidth used by the tower for everyone, but that is mostly the case in overcrowded areas with a lot of concurrent users, or in the worst case it's just the carrier messing with people and throttling them to keep home lines essential for everyone and/or make more profits. Usually the latter is more what happens than the former, so 5G could help but not everytime.

 

In addition, looking at those speeds, I can have way better on my 4G network at night, showing that in that case it's more likely an intentional throttling of the up bandwidth, or a congestion issue, than anything else, since even in the 4G case it should have been significantly higher.

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Just ran a SpeedTest and can confirm, not currently on NBN though.

Man I don't realize just how bad our internet is until we compare it directly.

I got 10 down 0.8 up with TPG on their basic fibre package. Off peak. 

[ZacoAttaco]

18 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

I got 10 down 0.8 up with TPG on their basic fibre package. Off peak.  

Just to clarify, you mean 10Mbps down? 0.8Mbps up? Ouch.

 

 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Just to clarify, you mean 10Mbps down? 0.8Mbps up? Ouch.

 

 

Yes. Still planning to move to AU but won't go with TPG.

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, RorzNZ said:

Yes. Still planning to move to AU but won't go with TPG.

TRAITOR!!

[Dabombinable]

4 hours ago, schwellmo92 said:

Aussiebroadband have 250/100 consumer plans, and our LTE in Australia is generally faster than those speed tests. Our mobile networks are some of the best in the world.

250/100 and higher plans have been limited to very few people as a trial, and I wasn't referencing our LTE at all. Though they were ranked 9th globally in 2016 via their average.

[ZacoAttaco]

24 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

Yes. Still planning to move to AU but won't go with TPG.

Yeah TPG were really popular some years ago but not so much anymore. There are better alternatives now.

22 minutes ago, leadeater said:

TRAITOR!!

He's moving to greener pastures my friend, Australia is renowned for light speed internet when compared to NZ.

\s

 

How did this thread turn into a discussion about Australian vs NZ internet quality? It's like a race for second-last

[Guest]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

TRAITOR!!

After living there for a few months its hard to find a reason to stay in NZ lol. House prices are cheaper, people driver better and are more polite, girls are hotter, and I'll get better pay. I do love NZ (And I'll never forget it), but I'll never afford a house, let alone want to pay the ridiculous rent prices. I really love this country, but I'm not willing to put up with the BS anymore than I have to. Just can't get over how much nicer and honest people are in Australia.

 

Also $1 frozen cokes and they mix raspberry and coke together. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ZacoAttaco said:

Yeah TPG were really popular some years ago but not so much anymore. There are better alternatives now.

He's moving to greener pastures my friend, Australia is renowned for light speed internet when compared to NZ.

\s

 

How did this thread turn into a discussion about Australian vs NZ internet quality? It's like a race for second-last

Oh I can get 950 down 350 up here tho lol. It's no contest. Gigabit internet for around 80-90NZDp/m. 

[leadeater]

12 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

250/100 and higher plans have been limited to very few people as a trial, and I wasn't referencing our LTE at all. Though they were ranked 9th globally in 2016 via their average.

I'm surprised the NBN plans are so limited, the backhaul must be way over subscribed. I don't see any other reason for it for FTTH/GPON connected homes since the line rate is 2.5Gbps/1.25Gbps. It's that or the split ratio is a lot higher than we use here.

 

The speed tiers are all just made up anyway, it's just rate limiting, so it doesn't actually cost more to give a faster peak connection speed.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

people driver better

Yep

 

4 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

are more polite

Mate you're dreamin. Actually though I wouldn't rate either as better, where I am everyone is fine. Been over to Aus and encountered arses there just as much as here.

 

6 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

girls are hotter

Yep, mind sending more over here?

 

6 minutes ago, RorzNZ said:

I'll get better pay

Also yep

 

The the most important factor is only the people here can kill you not all the nature 

[Mooshi]

Carriers claiming they have 5G now are the same as when Nvidia/AMD rebadges graphics cards with a new number.

[leadeater]

4 hours ago, Chronified said:

Pretty sure 5G is supposed to be a replacement for DSL in areas outside of cities that don't have copper/fibe? The 4G infrastructure costed a LOT to put in place so they charged out the butt for data. 5G is a cheaper rollout so it shouldn't come as a surprise to see 200-500GB home packages with 5G modems. Cell phones also hopping onto 5G is just because they need to stay modern with tech, but 5G wasn't really designed with cell phones in mind.

4G was also still optimized for voice and architecturally was still largely circuit switched or separated out voice and data, newer deployments sometimes opted to use a more data/IP switched and routed design that could transport voice calls. The reason for using a more traditional telecommunication network design was all the billing was done using circuit connection times and that carried through to mobile phones and 4G, this means traffic cannot be re-routed/path changed as network utilization changes.

 

5G spec requires an all IP routed and switched architecture which means a more dynamic network that can better optimize utilization and traffic flows, that means more reliable and faster data service compared to 4G without any spectrum enhancements or radio technology improvements.

 

5G is a much more modern specification better suited to how we use mobile technology compared to 4G.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Mate you're dreamin. Actually though I wouldn't rate either as better, where I am everyone is fine. Been over to Aus and encountered arses there just as much as here.

I've heard QLD is nicer than other states so maybe that's something to do with it. Sydney is apparently not so nice though. 

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Yep, mind sending more over here?

Too cold I hear  

4 minutes ago, leadeater said:

The the most important factor is only the people here can kill you not all the nature 

Not too fussed about the nature. Grew up on a farm so not much to miss out on. In AU still mowed the lawns barefoot and didn't use gloves when weeding as usual. Turns out the latter was needed when the ants bite hard. My sister tried weeding when I went away and had to get some steroid cream lol. Turns out those ants should have concerned me a bit more. 

[schwellmo92]

45 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'm surprised the NBN plans are so limited, the backhaul must be way over subscribed. I don't see any other reason for it for FTTH/GPON connected homes since the line rate is 2.5Gbps/1.25Gbps. It's that or the split ratio is a lot higher than we use here.

 

The speed tiers are all just made up anyway, it's just rate limiting, so it doesn't actually cost more to give a faster peak connection speed.

The pricing that RSPs pay to NBN Co is quite high, AFAIK they have to pay like a recurring connection fee as well as capacity. NBN Co is trying to very agressively claw back the cost of building the network and fund the rest of the build. It’s absolute shambles.

 

In saying that, while it is not as good as it could be, it is a lot better than the shit we had pre-NBN with Telstra monopolising the country and leaving everyone to rot on ADSL2.

[leadeater]

49 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

The pricing that RSPs pay to NBN Co is quite high, AFAIK they have to pay like a recurring connection fee as well as capacity. NBN Co is trying to very agressively claw back the cost of building the network and fund the rest of the build. It’s absolute shambles.

It's the same structure here, the price just doesn't stuck though so ISPs are willing to sell the 1Gbps plans. NBN has 1Gbps available but the price is far too high to be able to package and sold to customers. They also did not offer 1Gbps plans here from the start either, they actually turned it in to a competition for which town had it phased in first.

 

Another issue is uptake in the new service, even when the majority had access to it people weren't actually requesting in home installation. The 1Gbps plan being introduced was a big part of increasing the uptake in the new service because 1000 is a hell of a lot bigger than 10, what most people had. Aggressively high pricing won't actually help much for return on investment, the best method is coverage and uptake ratio otherwise people with NBN are subsidizing those without NBN but have access to it.

 

Best thing every Australian can do is get everyone they know who has access to it and not on it to sign up and get it installed, price will fall and offered speeds will go up. 

[schwellmo92]

25 minutes ago, leadeater said:

It's the same structure here, the price just doesn't stuck though so ISPs are willing to sell the 1Gbps plans. NBN has 1Gbps available but the price is far too high to be able to package and sold to customers. They also did not offer 1Gbps plans here from the start either, they actually turned it in to a competition for which town had it phased in first.

 

Another issue is uptake in the new service, even when the majority had access to it people weren't actually requesting in home installation. The 1Gbps plan being introduced was a big part of increasing the uptake in the new service because 1000 is a hell of a lot bigger than 10, what most people had. Aggressively high pricing won't actually help much for return on investment, the best method is coverage and uptake ratio otherwise people with NBN are subsidizing those without NBN but have access to it.

 

Best thing every Australian can do is get everyone they know who has access to it and not on it to sign up and get it installed, price will fall and offered speeds will go up. 

When NBN Co come knocking your only practical option is to get NBN, the alternative is a third party point-to-point (high setup costs) or mobile broadband (low data caps). There’s nothing stopping RSPs from offering 1Gb other than the insane cost, MyRepublic did a gigabit trial in one of our cities but I don’t think it’s going very well.

 

Uptake has been decent and NBN Co did do some promo that allowed heaps of people to go from 25Mbps to 50Mbps for free. I think once they’ve finished the rollout they can probably afford to drop prices as their CAPEX will drop significantly and they’ll have more revenue due to more subscribers.

 

You also have to remember that 100Mbps is completely serviceable, 99% of people have no need for any faster. Us tech folk like to froth over insane speeds but in reality its seldom required.