Clicking "Check for Updates" in Windows 10 Makes You Download "Preview" Patches - Says Microsoft

[captain_to_fire]

19 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft still has its QA team.

The 1809 update doesn’t feel they have a functioning QA team overseeing that updates won’t botch systems or that they’re consistent. I mean, just look at the inconsistencies of their dark mode. If you ask me, that's quite a significant oversight from their quality control.

 

[LAwLz]

17 minutes ago, captain_to_fire said:

The 1809 update doesn’t feel they have a functioning QA team overseeing that updates won’t botch systems or that they’re consistent. I mean, just look at the inconsistencies of their dark mode. If you ask me, that's quite a significant oversight from their quality control.

I think that's a problem of rushing out things before they are fully done, rather than a QA issue. 

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, captain_to_fire said:

The 1809 update doesn’t feel they have a functioning QA team overseeing that updates won’t botch systems or that they’re consistent. I mean, just look at the inconsistencies of their dark mode. If you ask me, that's quite a significant oversight from their quality control.

 

This has nothing to do with QA.

QA is responsible for testing thing to identify bugs.

 

Microsoft made it clear that Dark theme is still in the works.

As for legacy panels like Control Panel, there will be no update to them. They are being moved to the Settings panel, and these old panels will be gone.

[dalekphalm]

4 hours ago, TechyBen said:

THIS!!!!!

 

Thank you LAwlz!!! Thousands of posters and IT "professionals" have been "no, Windows does not do that" and "my current branch is fine"... completely suggesting the user is at fault. Turns out all along, MS was giving different versions of Windows to different folks, hence why some got errors and others acted smug on the internet when they were really ignorant.

To be fair, many IT Professionals will be dealing with a different setup than a home user, since most of them will have a WSUS server - therefore, unless they approve the "preview" patches, they likely won't see them either.

 

Granted... we've never gotten our WSUS server to work the way we want

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Yea i had to roll back from 1809, broke many programs

[TechyBen]

1 hour ago, dalekphalm said:

To be fair, many IT Professionals will be dealing with a different setup than a home user, since most of them will have a WSUS server - therefore, unless they approve the "preview" patches, they likely won't see them either.

 

Granted... we've never gotten our WSUS server to work the way we want

Yeah, but a lot of people were deriding and blaming the "users" because "I don't get that problem, must be you". There were people waving around their credentials. When in reality, MS was segmenting its user base, seemingly randomly and hidden to them. So naturally some got errors and some did not.

 

A bit like 10-50% of Apple iPhone/Macbook users could have a fault, but the other half that did not would go "but mine is fine, must be you", even if Apple literally put a haddock in 50% of the laptops. XD

 

People just don't seem to want to check reality anymore.

[dalekphalm]

14 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

Yeah, but a lot of people were deriding and blaming the "users" because "I don't get that problem, must be you". There were people waving around their credentials. When in reality, MS was segmenting its user base, seemingly randomly and hidden to them. So naturally some got errors and some did not.

Oh for sure - just like in every industry, there are definitely some know-it-all dickhead IT admins.

14 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

A bit like 10-50% of Apple iPhone/Macbook users could have a fault, but the other half that did not would go "but mine is fine, must be you", even if Apple literally put a haddock in 50% of the laptops. XD

True - though any and every product occasionally has defects. With Apple in particular, sometimes it's difficult to sort through anti-apple rhetoric from actual large scale issues.

14 minutes ago, TechyBen said:

People just don't seem to want to check reality anymore.

True that

[Canada EH]

On 12/13/2018 at 3:24 PM, LAwLz said:

Microsoft

Much hate on Billy Boy much much hate!

 

[Techstorm970]

On 12/13/2018 at 4:19 PM, Dabombinable said:

One thing that I'm finding funny, is that the first release version of 1809 was more stable than the current release.

When your patches need patches...

[captain_to_fire]

14 hours ago, Pohernori said:

Yea i had to roll back from 1809, broke many programs

How I wish I can still roll back to Fall Creators Update 

[Donut417]

Ive been using Windows since 3.11 and I have to say the next computer I buy might not have Windows on it. I have experience with Chrome OS and to be honest, besides gaming, it does all I need it to do. I can just have a machine for gaming I guess. Hell at this point I might even look at a mac book air or something. I feel like Microsoft have become the EA of OS's. 

[Trik'Stari]

And this is why you should always wait a good while before updating. Especially when you're using software from a company that views its customers as testers.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Trik'Stari

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, Trik'Stari said:

And this is why you should always wait a good while before updating. Especially when you're using software from a company that views its customers as testers.

I would say if a company wants to use paid customers as alpha testers and rob them all of their data, its time to ditch them and look for a better solution.

[Ashleyyyy]

On 12/15/2018 at 2:06 PM, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft made it clear that Dark theme is still in the works.

WHY DID THEY RELEASE IT THEN? 

 

releasing stuff that isn't finished is ok in the insider program, but not to normal consumers!!!!1!

[Ashleyyyy]

On 12/15/2018 at 2:06 PM, GoodBytes said:

As for legacy panels like Control Panel, there will be no update to them. They are being moved to the Settings panel, and these old panels will be gone.

why? that touch screne interface is horrible. 

 

also, both Apple and the Linux community have figured out how to make all of their settings apps use dark modes. why can't Microsoft do it?

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

WHY DID THEY RELEASE IT THEN? 

'cause it is sufficiently done, and will be improved later.

Consumers push for more frequent OS updates, with new features. The "service" model. A model that Google, Apple, the majority of open source projects (this includes Linux).

Microsoft has just adapted with the times, being last to the party.

 

Quote

releasing stuff that isn't finished is ok in the insider program, but not to normal consumers!!!!1!

Does it have stability issues? No... Does it work? yes... Does it have bugs that makes the File Explorer non usable? No. Does it look complete for most users? Yes . so then it is ready.

 

If you go in the software world, you'll quickly realize a line of "good enough" is always drawn when releases are made, including known undisclosed bugs. I am talking about all your games, and all you software you use open source or not. The issue with software is that things are never finished, things can always be done better. So a line is drawn, and the feature will be improved in the next version.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, firelighter487 said:

why? that touch screne interface is horrible

Did you give it an honest try? I don't see any difference in the old and new control panel in terms of usability. The old Control Panels has no proper search function, slow to navigate with panels taking time to load while instant on the Settings panel, fully high-DPI aware,  And nothing is consistent... some panel open in the Control Panel itself, other opens in separate panels, some have the layout from Windows 95, other Windows 2000 and others Windows Vista/7, and the way you interact them has no real consistency.

 

All I can say, is that you probably like the Control Panel more because that is what you are used to. But if you give the new Settings an honest try, and try and learn it, I think you'll discover that you'll quickly end up not using the old panel anymore, or at worst, absolute rarely.

 

Quote

also, both Apple and the Linux community have figured out how to make all of their settings apps use dark modes. why can't Microsoft do it?

They have, it is called Settings panel. You also have more options there then in the Control Panel.

Microsoft is very close to have everything in the Settings panel.

 

[Ashleyyyy]

11 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

'cause it is sufficiently done, and will be improved later.

Consumers push for more frequent OS updates, with new features. The "service" model. A model that Google, Apple, the majority of open source projects (this includes Linux).

Microsoft has just adapted with the times, being last to the party.

sure consumers push for more updates. but last i checked Apple had a dark theme for the menu bar and dock pre-Mojave, and Mojave introduced the full dark theme. they didn't make a dark theme for select applications, and sometimes (in the case of explorer) only for select locations in apps. 

 

13 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Does it have stability issues? No... Does it work? yes... Does it have bugs that makes the File Explorer non usable? No. Does it look complete for most users? Yes . so then it is ready.

 

If you go in the software world, you'll quickly realize a line of "good enough" is always drawn when releases are made, including known undisclosed bugs. I am talking about all your games, and all you software you use open source or not. The issue with software is that things are never finished, things can always be done better. So a line is drawn, and the feature will be improved in the next version.

Windows 10 has plenty of stability issues lol... 

 

as for the theme, i don't think it looks "complete" for many. a lot of people still use the legacy control panel. wether MS likes it or not. 

 

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Did you give it an honest try?

yes. on a touchscreen (i have an Asus transformer, that's what i'm referencing when i say i used a touchscreen) the small text that isn't in boxes is very hard to hit accurately. on a desktop or traditional laptop the boxes waste a lot of space. ideally the tablet mode would put boxes around everything and normal desktop mode would turn the boxes off. as it is now, it's a hybrid that is annoying to use both with and without a touchscreen. 

 

4 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

They have, it is called Settings panel. You also have more options there then in the Control Panel.

Microsoft is very close to have everything in the Settings panel.

i said all settings. there are also still buttons in the settings app that link to the legacy control panel. network adaptor settings for example. they aren't close at all. 

[GoodBytes]

Just now, firelighter487 said:

sure consumers push for more updates. but last i checked Apple had a dark theme for the menu bar and dock pre-Mojave,

Why was that released before, then? It should not have been released! - you would say.

 

Just now, firelighter487 said:

and Mojave introduced the full dark theme. they didn't make a dark theme for select applications, and sometimes (in the case of explorer) only for select locations in apps. 

Apple can nearly exclusively focus on the front-end. They don't need to handle the back-end that is being done for them for free. They can have a team of 10 people working for 6 month to ensure that the sliding animation of some panel is perfectly smooth, and looks nice. Microsoft can't do this. In fact they are stuck with legacy stuff. Mainly Shell32 (I'll explain later).

 

What Microsoft is doing is doing porting everything under UWP framework, which allows them to use GPU acceleration for fast and responsive interfaces to be made, and that allows them to have every panel to be updated with a modern framework model used by the industry everywhere (well, almost), which is the separation of the GUI code with the code of the software, and have layouts of panels to be coded via simple XML. This allows people from the outside of the team responsible for something to change things or polish things, like the design team or other people at the company without being knowledgeable of the code base and risking breaking things, if they allow to have this "internal open source" project type of thing. However, you need to get there, and that is what MS is doing. It is an investment for the future, if you will.

 

One thing that is holding back, is Shell32, that is the interface of Windows. Introduced in Windows 95, still used today, that is the graphical interface engine of your login screen, your task bar, desktop, and hence why you have stuff like: right-click menu on your desktop is not matching the one from the Start menu. stuff are hacked up to make it look a match... which I am sure you noticed, but doesn't really match due to the framework limitation, which I am sure Microsoft can fix, but they are putting their resources into the replacement of Shell32... and that is CShell.

 

CShell is far from ready, but you can see a preview of it with the Surface Hub 2 reveal trailer which shows what is planned via concepts.

Some of the notable changes

• Support for any screen rotation angle, not just landscape and portrait (applications can know the screen orientation, and have it's interface adapt if it choose to)
• Multiple screen support at the login screen
• No more screen turning black when switching user accounts
• fully GPU renders
• Animated wallpaper at login screen

Not shown but part of CShell:

• An interface that adapts to changing form factor. Tablet mode that you have is pretty bad, mostly because it is a hacked up job to Shell32. CShell would allow smooth transmission and remove some of the application glitches that sometimes can occur with Tablet modes when mode switch occurs.

 

 

Just now, firelighter487 said:

Windows 10 has plenty of stability issues lol... 

I would be glad to hear about them. Keep in mind that Windows can't fix your hardware issues and driver issues.

 

Just now, firelighter487 said:

as for the theme, i don't think it looks "complete" for many. a lot of people still use the legacy control panel. wether MS likes it or not. 

Well Control Panel days are numbered, and I am sure that Microsoft would be very happy pressing the kill switch on it as soon as possible. The Settings panel has support internally at every level.

 

Just now, firelighter487 said:

yes. on a touchscreen (i have an Asus transformer, that's what i'm referencing when i say i used a touchscreen) the small text that isn't in boxes is very hard to hit accurately. on a desktop or traditional laptop the boxes waste a lot of space.

I see a lot of wasted space to me in the Control Panel:

 

Just now, firelighter487 said:

i said all settings. there are also still buttons in the settings app that link to the legacy control panel. network adaptor settings for example. they aren't close at all. 

It will come.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well Control Panel days are numbered, and I am sure that Microsoft would be very happy pressing the kill switch on it as soon as possible. The Settings panel has support internally at every level.

 

I have to agree. The settings panel is more organized and better setup than Control Panel ever was. To me this was the best thing Microsoft has ever done with Windows. The best part is its easier to navigate to. I cant wait till the demise of Control Panel. 

[Ashleyyyy]

10 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Why was that released before, then? It should not have been released! - you would say.

because, it looks pretty good, and there was not a mention of a dark theme for applications then. i suppose people wanted it to make dark wallpapers look better. 

this:

looks a lot better than this:

in my opinion anyway. and it doesn't feel incomplete to me because all apps still use a light theme. there is consistency. in Windows's UI there is no consistency. 

 

14 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Apple can nearly exclusively focus on the front-end. They don't need to handle the back-end that is being done for them for free. They can have a team of 10 people working for 6 month to ensure that the sliding animation of some panel is perfectly smooth, and looks nice. Microsoft can't do this. In fact they are stuck with legacy stuff. Mainly Shell32 (I'll explain later).

well they could open-source their OS, or use an open-source kernel and backend. but they don't. that's their choice.

 

15 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I would be glad to hear about them. Keep in mind that Windows can't fix your hardware issues and driver issues.

just a few things: 

if you open search on a second display, close it and then open search on your primary display the taskbar will dissapear and come back. 

on one of my Windows systems bluetooth magically stopped working, and then magically started working again the next day. 

Windows update bricks itself or the whole OS from time to time, this has happened to me. 

Windows update frequently fails to install updates. 

 

nevermind that they give you beta updates when you don't want them... 

 

18 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I see a lot of wasted space to me in the Control Panel:

not nearly as much as in the settings app. or macOS's settings app. 

 

 

you can make as many arguments as you want, but if Microsoft just said screw it, we are gong to use Linux for out back end, and open-source our front end stuff so other people can make themes for it, everything would be way better. 

[Ashleyyyy]

17 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

I have to agree. The settings panel is more organized and better setup than Control Panel ever was. To me this was the best thing Microsoft has ever done with Windows. The best part is its easier to navigate to. I cant wait till the demise of Control Panel. 

the thing i hate most about the settings app is if i want to change my network adaptor options for example, i have to go through a bunch of crap, click the thing and it still opens the legacy control panel. like excuse me? 

[Donut417]

18 minutes ago, firelighter487 said:

the thing i hate most about the settings app is if i want to change my network adaptor options for example, i have to go through a bunch of crap, click the thing and it still opens the legacy control panel. like excuse me? 

Well depending what Im doing network wise I open the cmd prompt, because Im old school like that. 

[jagdtigger]

41 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

It will come.

*Sigh* That is the point, right now its a half done unusable mess, why release it in the first place? And this applies to the whole "OS", its an unusable mix of UI ""designs"" for phone, tablet, and PC..... Not to mention the whole farce around their ghost platform(UWP), no one uses it and no one cares but they still pushing it down our throats.

[dalekphalm]

@GoodBytes my main gripe with the Settings panel is that you can only have a single Settings window open at once.

 

Fix that, Microsoft. Fix that ASAP. I want to be able to - for example - check for Updates (and monitor the progress) at the same time as looking at Printers.

 

I can do this in Control Panel, since you can have multiple windows of Control Panel open at once.

 

I have no problem with the idea that Settings will replace Control Panel. But when I hunt through settings, and inevitably find some option that will open the control panel, it's not ready yet. I'm not opposed to it being integrated slowly over time, but there's still a lot of work to do to make Settings a true replacement for Control Panel.

 

Finalize the migration of all settings available in CP into Settings, and enable multiple Settings Windows at once, and I'll be happy.