Secret Backdoor found in older Via x86 chips.

[Sithon1]

Tom's Hardware has an article about the discovery of secret backdoors in VIA thin clients. 

Quote

Some x86 CPUs have hidden backdoors that let you seize root by sending a command to an undocumented RISC core that manages the main CPU, security researcher Christopher Domas told the Black Hat conference 

 This is pretty scary, I wonder how many of our PC's have these hidden cores in their chips.https://www.tomshardware.com/news/x86-hidden-god-mode,37582.html

[thorhammerz]

Like the Intel Management Engine? 

[Bcat00]

Easter egg anyone??

[Sithon1]

4 minutes ago, thorhammerz said:

Like the Intel Management Engine? 

Intel says it isn't a back door.  I for one , believe them wholeheartedly.

[Nowak]

7 minutes ago, Sithon1 said:

Intel says it isn't a back door.  I for one , believe them wholeheartedly.

"Intel says it so it must be true!"

[williamcll]

People still use VIA?

[Droidbot]

3 minutes ago, NowakVulpix said:

"Intel says it so it must be true!"

Remember:

 

- Skylake has worse IPC than Coffee Lake

- 28 core will become consumer

- DDR3 kills Skylake

- Z170 can't run Coffee Lake

- The ME is secure

 

[Ashleyyyy]

16 minutes ago, Droidbot said:

- 28 core will become consumer

if it takes them just as long as it took them 6 core's that'll take a while. 

i have 6 core Xeon's from 2010 in my system, i dunno what the first 6-core Xeon was but it's old. 

[Taf the Ghost]

3 hours ago, Sithon1 said:

Tom's Hardware has an article about the discovery of secret backdoors in VIA thin clients. 

 This is pretty scary, I wonder how many of our PC's have these hidden cores in their chips.https://www.tomshardware.com/news/x86-hidden-god-mode,37582.html

This is explicitly from a chip from 2003 in embedded use, but, well, those are still around.

[Crunchy Dragon]

13 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

This is explicitly from a chip from 2003 in embedded use, but, well, those are still around.

Yup.

 

I've got boards with VIA chips on them(granted nothing terribly recent that I'm aware of), but as far as I know VIA still manufactures sound chips and similar parts for other companies.

[Taf the Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Yup.

 

I've got boards with VIA chips on them(granted nothing terribly recent that I'm aware of), but as far as I know VIA still manufactures sound chips and similar parts for other companies.

They've still got Cyrix's x86 license and it's being used out of China now.

 

But the real question is: someone put this backdoor in at the design level, so who was it for?

[Taf the Ghost]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VIA_C3

 

"VIA’s embedded platform products have reportedly (2005) been adopted in Nissan’s car series,"

 

So, that's interesting. 

[Dabombinable]

17 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

Yup.

 

I've got boards with VIA chips on them(granted nothing terribly recent that I'm aware of), but as far as I know VIA still manufactures sound chips and similar parts for other companies.

I think they still manufacture x86 CPU as well. Just well out of the consumer eye.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, Dabombinable said:

I think they still manufacture x86 CPU as well. Just well out of the consumer eye.

They made an announcement a while ago stating that they were coming back to the CPU market, but I never heard about anything beyond that announcement.

 

It was pretty big too, since they'd been phased out by Intel(for the most part) and AMD.

[Taf the Ghost]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

I think they still manufacture x86 CPU as well. Just well out of the consumer eye.

Lots of thin-client stuff.

 

But I think we're glossing over that this might be the first Designed-at-Hardware level backdoor that's been hidden in a x86 CPU. The IME & PSP are at least acknowledge and exist for legitimate reasons. 

[ScratchCat]

Please be an OoO core so we can have: "This patch fixes a vulnerability in a backdoor in the CPU"

[GoldenLag]

Aha, finally, now tha VIA has been hit by critical blow, [insert your fanboy company] will rule the CPU market ahahahaha

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, GoldenLag said:

Aha, finally, now tha VIA has been hit by critical blow, Texas instruments will rule the CPU market ahahahaha

That looks better.

[Sauron]

8 hours ago, Sithon1 said:

Intel says it isn't a back door.  I for one , believe them wholeheartedly.

It allows someone to remotely access a computer with full privileges, leaving no trace of their actions. The code is closed and the ME cannot be deactivated by regular means, even if you don't use it.

 

That's the definition of a backdoor ?

[Sauron]

5 hours ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

They made an announcement a while ago stating that they were coming back to the CPU market, but I never heard about anything beyond that announcement.

 

It was pretty big too, since they'd been phased out by Intel(for the most part) and AMD.

I don't think this vulnerabiliy would be relevant if they actually did get back in the desktop market, they'll need a completely new architecture if they hope to compete.

[Sithon1]

19 hours ago, Sauron said:

It allows someone to remotely access a computer with full privileges, leaving no trace of their actions. The code is closed and the ME cannot be deactivated by regular means, even if you don't use it.

 

That's the definition of a backdoor ?

Do I need to hold up the sarcasm sign?

[Sauron]

2 hours ago, Sithon1 said:

Do I need to hold up the sarcasm sign?

I've seen people honestly defending the ME, I don't know what's even real anymore