ICTable Scam - 248 days after order

[NovaNightmare]

Today is the 248th day after I placed an order with ICTable, after seeing the "awesome" 16k video by Linus, I waited for a holiday sale and posted an order on November 27th, 2017.

 

The order page stipulated a 3 month delay due to increased orders, and as such I had no trouble waiting until this time had come. I posted about it in the following thread

Someone was smart enough to tag a few LTT people, and it elicited a response from LTT and also the only post from ICTable on this forum.

 

I received an apology, and the offer of great discount, as well as free shipping, free LED kit among other things in order for the inconvenience, and additionally my order was canceled and recreated, with the promise it would essentially still be the same order as before (keeping place in line, etc).

 

During the owners emails to me, I was told it would be an additional 4 months, due to bad and damaged parts received, and I also received a promise in the email that they would refund me if the item has not shipped within 6 months of the date of the letter (That hasn't happened yet). However it has been over 8 months, or precisely 248 days since my order was made, and so I contacted ICTable, since this is the "4 more month mark" as requested for extra time.

 

today I received a near identical email as another user posted, which states the following 

 

"Currently, our President and CEO, Anatoliy, is in China trying to resolve the manufacturing delays as fast as possible. The current political conflicts between the United States and China have resulted in a complex trade war. The manufacturers are trying to exploit the struggle by not fulfilling orders on time or use other underhand methods in an attempt to increase prices. The conflict in turn heavily impacts small business like ours. We are putting our full effort to resolve the issue, but we can see that it may take an additional 3 months. "

 

An additional 3 months would put me at almost a year since I placed my order, and certainly, this is that last straw. I was very excited for this desk, but I can see it is not happening, and there is no reason to wait around while nothing happens, so here it is.

 

I was hoping I would be posting how cool my new desk was, and how nice it was, but this is not something that is ever going to happen, so I am going to say, this was a scam, and if it was not a scam, this was so poorly managed as to be ridiculous. If you examine the website for ICTable, you will see lots of mentioning eSports, and now mentioning of AI. More and more things are being added, but desks, those aren't shipping.

 

@LinusTech @jakkuh_t @ictable

[Guest]

Did you atleast get the money back?

 

Hey Linus. @LinusTech

Hey @ictable. 

The @TheIcePhoenix didnt get his money back, and didnt get a table as far as i understand him, his quote:

Spoiler

My friends have been telling me I was being scammed for months but I refused to lend that idea any merit because I  saw them on LTT and trust LTT as a source of good info.

 

So I also ordered this desk because of the linus video, and I also have not received the desk.   I also had to deal with the changing store and website addresses and phone number issues. I paid in payments and just finished the last payment in May 2018. I emailed them about making shipping date and this was the response.

We are currently sold out, thus we have been taking orders for the next batch, which should be around 2 months from now. 

 

After this email was sent with my last payment all communication went from a 24 hour turnover to 3-7 days and multiple emails from my end trying to get a hold of them.

this is after I went on rants about how great the company was with responding timely and being very willing to work with a customer. but alas since they were so willing to work with me I was willing to wait they also offered me a discount on other products as compensation but I did not want anything else just what I ordered. just now that they have all my money it seems like I am no longer important.

 

So I waited and once middle of july rolled around I sent them another email looking for an update on shipping. did not get a response for 2 days so i sent another email and did not get a response for 3 days so i sent 1 more and finally got a response that they changed their email and also the info below.

 

Your iCTABLE is very close to be shipped, but it has to be slightly delayed. The current political conflicts between the United States and China have resulted in a complex trade war. The manufacturers are trying to exploit the struggle by not fulfilling orders on time or use other underhand methods in an attempt to increase prices. The conflict in turn heavily impacts small business like ours. Currently, our President and CEO, Anatoliy, is in China trying to resolve the manufacturing delays as fast as possible. We are putting our full effort to resolve the issue as soon as possible and will contact you with the soonest approximation.

 

this email sent TONS of Red flags off, although I guess it could be true as I do not know how all that sort of stuff works.

 

unfortunately it genuinely seems like I may have fell into a trap and a catch 22 as since I paid in payments and my last payment was almost 3 months ago I may be SOL on getting paypal to refund me if I do not in fact get the desk. this is very worrying and a HUGE disappointment. I genuinely hope I am wrong and my worries are for nothing as this company on the surface seems very cool and the product is genuinely worth getting.

 

Red flags

Changing website 

Changing Store/Payment links without notice

sudden drop off in communication

extended wait times for shipping that seem to usually go beyond Paypal's Terms for getting a refund.

very little evidence of anyone outside of LTT and a few and I mean a few customers I have found making any remarks on the desk in regards to quality and price and so on. I imagine that SOMEONE would have made videos on this desk besides the company and LTT by now but nope nobody at all. although there are a couple posts on facebook about happy customers it is a very small group of people. 

they claim a HUGE customer base but there is little evidence to support this.

 

Also is it just me or do they seem to rely heavily on LTT video that was done with them as their only source of validity of popularity?

and upon searching my ass off the only media on ictable is the LTT one and some that they made themselves. 

 

PLEASE let me be wrong because they guys are really friendly and have a amazing product with a lot of potential and if I am wrong they need to seriously rethink the business practices in some areas to avoid these types of concerns as many people arnt as understanding and willing to wait as we are and will make a much bigger issue out of it.

 

 

[NovaNightmare]

1 minute ago, Some Random Member said:

Did you atleast get the money back?

 

Hey Linus. @LinusTech

The first time, I needed to file a dispute via PayPal over it, and I got it back in the sense that they did not dispute the dispute - that was part of the deal, place the order again (not having to pay interest and what not while waiting for the desk).

[aezakmi]

why did you placed an order again if you got your money back?

 

they scammed you twice?

[CR16]

2 minutes ago, aezakmi said:

why did you placed an order again if you got your money back?

 

they scammed you twice?

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me lol

[NovaNightmare]

Just now, aezakmi said:

why did you placed an order again if you got your money back?

 

they scammed you twice?

As detailed in the prior post, they explained the delay, offered the discounts and other things, and LTT also got involved getting a response from them. Therefore going by the belief that they had received some bad parts, and the offers they made, I placed the order again. I can promise I am not going to just eat the cost and do nothing, I have a promised agreement for a refund, or I will follow the same approach as before (via PayPal). 

 

I want(ed) the desk, which is why I ordered it. Obviously, now I can say it's not happening.

[orbitalbuzzsaw]

37 minutes ago, NovaNightmare said:

As detailed in the prior post, they explained the delay, offered the discounts and other things, and LTT also got involved getting a response from them. Therefore going by the belief that they had received some bad parts, and the offers they made, I placed the order again. I can promise I am not going to just eat the cost and do nothing, I have a promised agreement for a refund, or I will follow the same approach as before (via PayPal). 

 

I want(ed) the desk, which is why I ordered it. Obviously, now I can say it's not happening.

Just build your own desk or have it done up by a furniture maker

[LegendaryLightning]

Let us know what happens next NovaNightmare! I want to believe that ictable can become a good brand, but I haven't see any progress. Plus, no one is really posting images of the desk in their own homes. As far as I know, no one, except LTT has a table.

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

3 hours ago, LegendaryLightning said:

Let us know what happens next NovaNightmare! I want to believe that ictable can become a good brand, but I haven't see any progress. Plus, no one is really posting images of the desk in their own homes. As far as I know, no one, except LTT has a table.

Then that is definitely not a good sign. Sort of like what happened with the Raadition Apple II cases. 

[NovaNightmare]

3 hours ago, LegendaryLightning said:

Let us know what happens next NovaNightmare! I want to believe that ictable can become a good brand, but I haven't see any progress. Plus, no one is really posting images of the desk in their own homes. As far as I know, no one, except LTT has a table.

I received a communication after this (after the copy paste about being in china) because I insisted on more specific information about when it would ship. I was told that I would get a specific update this Friday. I will go from there, but it's not good at all.

[ictable]

We understand your concerns and share in your worries. We sincerely apologize for our unprofessional approach in the matter and the inability to provide the product in a timely manner you expected.

 

iCTABLE is not a mass-manufacturing product, using technologies of individual production. In this case, we sacrifice speed and time for top quality. For example, one of the decorative elements, the corner cups, can be manufactured in large quantites and relatively quickly with the method of dye casting. However, we use high-end cnc machines giving unparalled quality but at a much slower pace.  It is not a coincidence that Apple bought 80,000 such cnc machines to achieve enough quantity production of their high-level of quality products. But, we are not yet at Apple size to create such an operation of producion. Nevertheless, we will continue to pursue the best quality for you. 

 

Another important factor is the materials we use. More specifically - aluminium. It is beautiful, modern, and very expensive (with the exception of one country where everything is made). But even in Asia the price is substantial in comparison to the normal, cheap, metals out of which regular cases and desks are pumped out of factories like hot cakes. We also employ laser cutting machines for precision and clean edges. But, yet again, the process is considerably slower to other, less quality methods. 

 

Every customer is extremely important to us and we try to operate like a large company while keeping the price at the lowest market level. With the addition of competition, primarily in China, which flood the market with products at the lowest cost by substitution quality with lots of quantity. We are fully aware that we are progressing slow in your eyes, but we are not embarrassed for the quantity we provide.
 
Our end-goal is to provide you with the best quality product - which will serve you a lifetime. iCTABLE is not meant to be replaced every few years. It can be upgraded, updated, and evolved - not thrown out like normal desks. To achieve this, therefore, the quality needs to be of the highest level for the life-lasting effects. 

 

We are looking for solutions and are finding them with full effort and with time. In addition, we ask that in any situation to first contact us directly at any time via Facebook.com/ictable or by sending us an email at my@ictable.com 

 

Sincerely,

 

 

iCTABLE Team
 

[Arika]

On 8/9/2018 at 3:22 PM, ictable said:

-snip-

 

what an entirely expected copy/paste PR answer

 

at this point no one cares what materials you use or what manufacturing machines you have. 8 months is stretching into ridiculous time frames, even for a fully custom workstation desk setup.

 

Out of curiosity i contacted a place not to far from where i live and asked how long it would take for them to manufacture something, that i would deem similar quality and materials to the ICTable, they quoted me "no more than 45 days, delivered". keeping in mine they work in a single warehouse and it's all in-house

 

You got too ambitious with your Kickstarter before you had the provisions to fill the orders.

[Guest]

“I hate these copy paste vague excuses & delays.” 

 

*puts copy paste vague excuses & delays* 

 

Edit: if the company TRULY cared about every customer, the company would have privately messaged the OP asking the order number and have found out exactly where each and every part was without making any public statement. 

[NovaNightmare]

Just as a note here - I was privately emailed by the company yesterday evening (likely around the time of the post) and I was apologized to.

 

I was instructed to proceed with the refund process as before, due to the time frame being even longer (lets say, it would have gone into the Year long process).

 

This is what I have decided to do, as far as I go, I am waiting no longer.

 

If I have any further information, I will update the post. Once the process (refund) is completed I will also update the post again.

 

I appreciate the help from the Linus folks who reached out to them.

[Velcade]

12 hours ago, ictable said:

It is not a coincidence that Apple bought 80,000 such cnc machines to achieve enough quantity production of their high-level of quality products. But, we are not yet at Apple size to create such an operation of producion.

Just wait until they're a trillion dollar company then you'll get your table.

 

IC gets it... slow and steady wins the race.

[iRileyx]

3 minutes ago, Velcade said:

Just wait until they're a trillion dollar company then you'll get your table.

 

IC gets it... slow and steady wins the race.

With how slow they're going they won't be winning any races, there comes a point when you go to slow.

 

and 8 months for a single desk is definitely too slow.

[Timruins]

You would figure a company with any basic business sense, wouldn't allow the back orders to get so out of hand. 

I'm not a business owner or product manufacturer, but if I was I'd know what my turn around time was and how much I'm capable of producing.

 

That said you would expect them to cease taking orders before they are 3 months into backlog. 

 

The worst part is the fact the buyer has to continuously initiate contact with the company, the moment you know there's an issue all customers should be notified. 

[TheIcePhoenix]

I have still yet to get my desk and they also are not responding to my emails anymore as well. I have tried their Facebook and 2 different email addresses. 1 to the Owner  (Anatoly) and another to the company Email.  

 

I cannot find any phone number at all to contact them directly. I also cannot find any other method of speaking to them outside of email.

I cannot even find any company info on them outside what they put out on themselves. (IE no government information that shows them as a legitimate business) although I don't know all the ways to find that info so I could be missing a step here or a search there.

 

I can hardly find any photos or posts about people who have received their desks and the ones I do find (on facebook) they people  aren't responding to PM that I send asking for a little info on the desk or what their experience was like, almost like they could potentially be fake accounts? IDK but it seems fishy not to find video reviews or posts outside of the LTT video. 

 

I am at a loss as to how I can go about getting this all fixed in a way that is acceptable for both parties or at least on how to get my money back if they don't deliver soon. I paid in payments directly to them and then through paypal once they randomly changed the way they accept payments a number of months ago. Since paypal was used only for the last couple of payments (about $1500 maybe less not positive) and it's been so long I don't know if I can get my money back, and what about the money I paid them directly?

 

I feel that I may just be screwed but please if ANYONE has some advice I would really appreciate it because about 3 grand is a lot of money to lose. (I dont have my receipts pulled up so I don't know the exact amount right now.

 

I think that Linus should consider stepping up to plate for us as I am sure like myself others have purchased or are considering purchasing an iCTABLE because of his video review and endorsement of the company and its product. I hate to say it but it hurts the credibility of Linus if he doesn't because its his words that are bringing them more customers and as such being in the position he is in it can make him look possibly complicite in the problem. Maybe a video from Linus with iCTABLE and them discussing the issues and showing us the process and what they are trying to overcome would help alleviate concerns? Basically Im asking linus to do an investigation into them and make it a video like he did with the Apple imac when they were screwing around with him. Stand up for the little guy is all i ask. Use your power and position in the community to get solid answers and save people from this down the road. 

 

PLEASE

 

@LinusTech

@jakkuh_t

@ictable

 

 

[iRileyx]

On 8/9/2018 at 6:48 PM, Velcade said:

Just wait until they're a trillion dollar company then you'll get your table.

 

IC gets it... slow and steady wins the race.

Another month and the guy hasn't heard anything. 

 

Care to emphasise a bit more on your slow and steady now? looks like they're broke so forget the trillion dollar company comment ?

[Velcade]

16 hours ago, iRileyx said:

Another month and the guy hasn't heard anything. 

 

Care to emphasise a bit more on your slow and steady now? looks like they're broke so forget the trillion dollar company comment ?

The joke went way over your head.  Best to stop quoting me.

[TheIcePhoenix]

Just got a email back they once again told me it will be 3 months well that's all fine and dandy except every email they have sent says 3 months even though its already been 3 months upon 3 months and so on and so forth. Its always 3 months. I was told I should contact the California Attorney General and report them or sue them? seems a bit extreme but if this isnt resolved soon I am not sure what else i can do.

[TheIcePhoenix]

Update: 9-12-2018

 

Finally received an email from Anatoly/iCTABLE about 2 weeks after sending him 3 emails with no response

 

Hello Josh.

We apologies once again for the delayed response. If you want the quickest reply you can message us on www.Facebook.com/ictable

 

You are going through a lot of worries in regards to this order, and it breaks our hearts as well as it was never in our minds to make you so anxious on every turn. We have failed you; we could not get you your order on the time we gave you initially, it is completely our fault. We're trying our best to get you your order asap and are in China right now to expedite the process. 

It is within all logic and reason for you to be completely disappointed with the wait time and our poor communication. The earliest it will be ready is 3 months. It is a long time and unacceptable for what we initial promised, we understand that and do sincerely apologize. We would completely understand if you would want a refund at this point, and if so, when we do have stock we can let you know and if you are interested that we can ship out your order quickly. I

Sincerely,

iCTABLE Team

 

My response

 

To: Anatoly and the iCTABLE Team

First off I hold no grudges but am indeed very frustrated and growing a bit upset, but still hoping we can work everything out in a positive manner for us both

Look I really really want this desk but the sudden lack on communication and the constant it will be 3 more months upon 3 more months emails is very worrisome. Up until I completed my payments you guys were on top of everything, answering questions making changes assisting me in getting what would suit my needs best and so on. But now it really feels like I have been back burnered (brushed to the side or ignored) and this is very frustrating. I don't make a lot of money and I had to save the money in order to make those payments. I was and am still SO very excited for the desk I just need a set date and by set date I mean absolute date it will be shipped out of our facility and on its way to my door and it needs to be before November because that is the initial 3 month period you uated to me when you said that you had issues with sourcing materials form china and had to go and visit with them. In this email you are saying your having the same issue and having to go and visit again? If you cannot provide the product I would greatly appreciate the honest and straightforward truth so that at least I can give you guys credit for transparency and lend extra leeway to the value of your word. I genuinely feel you offer a unique and outstanding product and I really hope you guys can make it all work out but as it seems this scenario between you and me is also happening with other customers I have gotten in contact with and in the past with ones I have spoken too it concerns me that you MAY be taking me for a fool. I hope this is indeed NOT the case.

I have been going through a lot of worries because although it may not seem like a lot of money to some people it certainly is to me. Not to mention I had a plan and a timetable I was working on and these constant delays have essentially eliminated my plans all together. No lan Shows or Rig competitions for me this year now. These Room setup and Rig setup competitions are something I have literally done every year for about 7 years until now. So yes I have been up in arms worried.

Please give me a PROMISED set date (IE 10-31-2018 is the date we will have it on the truck to you house)

Please provide me with instructions on how to go about getting a refund if you feel you will fail to meet these expectations or feel that doing business with me will no longer be of interest to you.

Nonetheless despite our current conflict I still think that once you guys work out the issues you definitely have something great to offer people.

Its just that now that you have the product worked out you need to work out the rest and trust me as I used to own a Computer store I understand the difficulty in securing partners and sourcing materials but this is NOT the customers problem to deal with and is something you as a successful business should not be making the customer deal with. if your having trouble sourcing materials then maybe you need and you definitely should find a local source. For the cost of the desk I don't see why you cant afford local sourcing for the parts. 

I genuinely do wish you guys the best and hope we come to a mutually beneficial resolution for us both.

Sincerely, Joshua W

 

 

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, TheIcePhoenix said:

My response

 

Why the hell would you still want to give this company your business? 

 

You've been given the opportunity for a refund and have declined it. You want to torture yourself and deal with a company that definitely does not deserve your business? Fine. But don't complain when you get shafted.

 

1 hour ago, TheIcePhoenix said:

Up until I completed my payments you guys were on top of everything, answering questions making changes assisting me in getting what would suit my needs best and so on. But now it really feels like I have been back burnered (brushed to the side or ignored) and this is very frustrating. I don't make a lot of money and I had to save the money in order to make those payments.

 

1 hour ago, TheIcePhoenix said:

have been going through a lot of worries because although it may not seem like a lot of money to some people it certainly is to me

Sounds like a luxury item like a fancy desk shouldn't be a priority for you. Take the refund and stop dealing with this company.

Maybe in a few years time you will have more disposable income to afford luxury items such as this, and by then they may have their production line sorted and be able to deliver a desk within a reasonable time frame... Assuming by then they haven't gone under resulting in everyone who pre ordered from them losing their money.

[TheIcePhoenix]

11 minutes ago, Spotty said:

 

Why the hell would you still want to give this company your business? 

 

You've been given the opportunity for a refund and have declined it. You want to torture yourself and deal with a company that definitely does not deserve your business? Fine. But don't complain when you get shafted.

 

 

Sounds like a luxury item like a fancy desk shouldn't be a priority for you. Take the refund and stop dealing with this company.

Maybe in a few years time you will have more disposable income to afford luxury items such as this, and by then they may have their production line sorted and be able to deliver a desk within a reasonable time frame... Assuming by then they haven't gone under resulting in everyone who pre ordered from them losing their money.

I set an ultimatum and am standing my ground. Who in this world wouldn't consider this desk a luxury item? lol I have many projects that I work on and they all take money so no its not that i cannot afford a luxury item its that I had to shift my finances around.

 

I still want the desk clearly and as such i'm trying hard to get them to follow through. if they cannot do so then I will take my money elsewhere and pay another company to build me a Desk or Case.

 

In NO way did I decline the refund. 

[Arika]

44 minutes ago, TheIcePhoenix said:

I set an ultimatum and am standing my ground. Who in this world wouldn't consider this desk a luxury item?

it's been nine and a half months. luxury item or not, for a desk (a goddamn DESK) that is completely unacceptably, regardless of how much you want it. PLUS their now "The earliest it will be ready is 3 months" will make it over an entire year. i suggest you ask for a refund now and spend your money at a business that isn't completely inept.