Rant: Watch Collecting

[kokakolia]

Hi,

 

I just want to vent some steam off about watches.

 

First off, I would like to talk a little about myself. I am just your average nerd who wears t-shirts and blue jeans. I don't exactly have a sense of style but I know how to dress up for occasions. I first got into watches when I thought I needed one for work. I never needed a watch for work. But before making a purchase I watched dozens, no hundreds of watch videos over the year as "research". And let me tell you that these so-called YouTube watch "experts" are full of bologna!

 

The mechanical VS quartz debate. Quartz is the winner for me! I still don't get it why these watch "experts" only want mechanical watches, when mechanical watches are inferior in so many ways: cost, accuracy, servicing, power reserve, magnetic and shock resistance, features.... It's as if these watch collectors implicitly admit that watches are obsolete, so they may as well go "all in " on the obsolescence train. This is not like a vinyl VS CD debate. These two formats can sound different. A watch tells the time. Our ancestors who fought in wars or managed trains would have KILLED for a cheap plastic digital Casio watch that's extremely accurate with a timer, back light and alarm. Further, watches at the time were very expensive and fragile. It's no surprise that only the most prestigious mechanical watch brands survived the quartz crisis because cheap mechanical watches just suck. It takes an Omega or Rolex to compete with a cheap quartz watch on accuracy and durability. It's like today's watch collectors are romanticizing a past that never was. Mechanical watches suck. That's my opinion. I know there's the argument that mechanical watches run forever with proper servicing, but servicing is expensive and you may as well buy another watch.

 

These watch experts make you believe that you absolutely need specific features that don't matter. I am talking about having 100m+ water resistance, a sapphire crystal, lume etc...None of that stuff matters. Who swims with a watch anyway!? Why would you ever swim with a watch? It's like your in the market for a cheap quartz watch that gets the job done and you end up spending hundreds of dollars on a mechanical dive watch.

 

These watch "experts" are just brand "..."!! At the end of the day, everyone just buys the same 3 Rolex models. There's this running gag about Hodinkee journalists interviewing celebrities about their watch collection. And it's 9 times out of 10 just a lineup of several, very similar Rolex watches. If I collected watches I wouldn't buy the same watch 6 times with a slightly different dial, bracelet or bezel. And why is one bezel model more expensive than the other? It's just one piece of steel...go figure. Release watch with "pepsi" bezel = profit. This is ridiculous. And most YouTube watch videos follow the same specific pattern: Rolex, Seiko, Rolex, Seiko, Rolex, Rolex...Further, why does a plain looking steel watch with an old "tried and tested" movement costs $5000+!? The RnD costs for that watch must of paid for itself many times over. But it's clear now that people only buy Rolex because the value holds up. The watch itself is objectively good as well. Otherwise, I am very certain that most people would be buying watches from other Swiss brands like Oris instead. They make similar watches to Rolex but for around $1000 and that seems more reasonable.

 

ETA VS In-house movements. Who in their right mind would ever want an in-house movement if it costs more to service and doesn't offer any tangible benefits!? I mean the benefits of in-house are hardly worth lusting for: better layout on the dial if your watch has several complications. Complications add more complications...Can I just have the time!? Further, setting the complications right on a watch is an annoying task. This is why watch collectors use watch winders to ensure that their automatic watches never stop running out of power. And that is just ridiculous.

 

The luxury market just abuses their clients. Buying a Rolex from an authorized dealer is a nightmare. There's a wait list for the desirable models. You have to fight your way through waiting lists and authorized dealers to have the privilege of buying a luxury watch. Rolex mass produces their watches and can realistically produce more watches to meet the demand and this is just so cruel and kinda funny. But it benefits Rolex in the end by inflating the feeling of exclusivity.

 

Conclusion: quartz watches are criminally underrated. We take these things for granted because of how cheap they are and how well they work. Also, collecting mechanical watches seems like an expensive ordeal. I don't want any of that. And yet, I can't stop watching these YouTube watch videos. It's just pure insanity.

[Volbet]

Well, couldn't the admiration for mechanical watches lie in an admiration for the mechanics themselves.

 

For example, I have a great admiration for Hi-fi equipment from the 1970's, simply because it's 100% mechanical with no silicon based logic.

 

The same could be the case for watches. While quartz watches might be better in every objective way, you can't really admire the workmanship that went into it the same way as you could with a mechanical watch.

[Froody129]

Well we could all use MacBooks because they work great and have battery life but instead we build PCs with overpriced parts and stupid cooling configurations in impractical cases. Why? It looks cool 

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, Froody129 said:

Well we could all use MacBooks because they work great and have battery life but instead we build PCs with overpriced parts and stupid cooling configurations in impractical cases. Why? It looks cool 

Or you’re in charge of building the air force a super computer & Sony came out with a new console. 

[Dash Lambda]

Quartz watches, at least good ones, are functionally superior to mechanical watches in almost every way -I can't imagine anyone, even the most die-hard 'Patek-or-nothing' loon, denying that.

 

But mechanical watches work very well, and they achieve their function in a way that's intricate and impressive. Quartz watches keep great time, are very durable, can be had cheap, and are usually boring. Mechanical watches can keep good time, can be relatively durable, are more expensive, and are cool.

 

The watch that I wear every day is a Seiko Orange Monster. It went for about the same price as a good quartz watch, it just runs, I haven't managed to break or even scratch it, every month or so I set it ahead a little bit, and it contains the 7s26 movement. The 7s26 movement has a bi-directional rotor, which means that no matter which direction the rotor is spinning, it winds the watch. Usually watch makers will do that with a train of gears and two ratchets taking up a bunch of space, but Seiko did it with a single armature -There are two teeth grabbing the winding gear attached to a slider, and when that slider moves one way one tooth pushes, and the other way makes the other tooth pull. So they completely eliminated the gear train and essentially made the entire system add two moving parts.

I don't know about you, but I really appreciate engineering like that.

[Teddy07]

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

[Clanscorpia]

4 minutes ago, Teddy07 said:

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

Because checking the time on a watch is much more proffesional then pulling out a phone

[Clanscorpia]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Kinda stupid since both do the same task it just sounds snobby to me that people actually care.

I dont think its the whole checking the time thing, but the fact that a lot of people when checking the time on their phones will drift off and look at other things. In something like a buisness meeting, many would find it very unprofessional

[Unhelpful]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Kinda stupid since both do the same task it just sounds snobby to me that people actually care.

It's rude to pull a phone out in a meeting. It's not rude to check your watch in a meeting. It is rude to do either on a date though.

[Clanscorpia]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

Kinda depends on the context of why they're checking the time if you ask me.  If someone pulls out a phone and checks the time I don't see it as any different than checking the watch.  Moving on to doing other tasks is as rude as someone checking their watch because they're bored of the meeting, or checking their watch because for any reason to be rude.  What if my watch has a game built in and I started playing that rather than focusing on the meeting?  What if I have a smartwatch and started doing another task?  Point is if you're just checking time then nobody should really care.

Its because they dont know if youre just checking the time or not. Its not the fact that you are doing it, its that you might be doing it.

[Unhelpful]

15 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Kinda depends on the context of why they're checking the time if you ask me.  If someone pulls out a phone and checks the time I don't see it as any different than checking the watch.

You don't, and I don't. Old people though? They sure as fuck do.

[kokakolia]

1 hour ago, Teddy07 said:

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

Watches these days are merely jewellery. They look cool.

 

2 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

Quartz watches, at least good ones, are functionally superior to mechanical watches in almost every way -I can't imagine anyone, even the most die-hard 'Patek-or-nothing' loon, denying that.

 

But mechanical watches work very well, and they achieve their function in a way that's intricate and impressive. Quartz watches keep great time, are very durable, can be had cheap, and are usually boring. Mechanical watches can keep good time, can be relatively durable, are more expensive, and are cool.

 

The watch that I wear every day is a Seiko Orange Monster. It went for about the same price as a good quartz watch, it just runs, I haven't managed to break or even scratch it, every month or so I set it ahead a little bit, and it contains the 7s26 movement. The 7s26 movement has a bi-directional rotor, which means that no matter which direction the rotor is spinning, it winds the watch. Usually watch makers will do that with a train of gears and two ratchets taking up a bunch of space, but Seiko did it with a single armature -There are two teeth grabbing the winding gear attached to a slider, and when that slider moves one way one tooth pushes, and the other way makes the other tooth pull. So they completely eliminated the gear train and essentially made the entire system add two moving parts.

I don't know about you, but I really appreciate engineering like that.

I myself, am the proud owner of a mechanical watch I received from a watch subscription service called Watch Gang. I got a TUW Ruhla 1892. I paid this site $100 and they shipped me some random watch. Any watch collector would lift their noses at this idea. These Watch Gang watches are merely a bunch of generic parts assembled together. There's absolutely nothing unique about these subscription watches. But I am perfectly fine with that. For $100 I got a steel watch with a sapphire crystal and a Miyota 8000 movement (Miyota 8000 = garbage if you ask watch geeks but I digress). And that's well worth $100, or $80 at the very least. These Miyota movements aren't that accurate at +/- 20 seconds per day. But it's quite unnoticeable in day to day life. Well, for me at least. I don't always wear my watch so it frequently runs out of power and I have to reset the time and date. I would have honestly preferred a quartz movement instead. The watch would have been thinner that way and I wouldn't have to reset the time and date as often. I maybe should have bought a Skagen watch instead.

 

Anyway here it is:

 

https://bellatory.com/fashion-accessories/Review-of-the-TUW-Ruhla-1892-Automatik

 

But yeah, it's a shame how vintage Seikos have shot up in price. I would have loved to pick a Seiko Monster, Tuna or Turtle at a reasonable price. I think that they look stellar on a brown leather strap. I love the contradiction of leather on a dive watch. I am jelly of your orange monster. Even though it's mechanical...

[EPENEX]

Relevant video:

 

[kokakolia]

30 minutes ago, EPENEX said:

Relevant video:

 

I watched a lot of Nick Shabazz’ videos last year and it was a revelation! He’s probably the only guy on YouTube that says quartz > mechanical. And then he’s not afraid to admit that collecting watches is stupid. Nobody wants to admit that they have a problem. 

 

I want to add that the internet has changed watches forever. The well established watch brands from Seiko to Rolex are hyped to infinity. And cheap watches with generic parts are flooding the market. There’s no “in between”. Well maybe there is...I don’t know anymore. There are too many watches. I’ll just stick to my TUW Ruhla LOL. It’s noice! 

 

Thinking about my dad, I thought that it was interesting how he stuck to quartz watches in the $200~$500 range. He had a Citizen watch, then a Tissot. Now he has a Garmin sports tracker with a heart rate monitor. He knew that quartz watches were better. And he always enjoyed having lots of features. But I didn’t care at all about watches at the time. Now I do and I seldom wear a watch LOL. 

 

I commonly see middle aged men with Citizen watches too. I wonder how that brand got so popular? The sun powered battery is bogus actually. Because the battery just dies off after several years anyway from repeated charge/discharge cycles. 

[dizmo]

Oh boy...so, instead of paying to fix something, you'd rather create waste? Interesting thought. Horrible over all for the environment.

Uh...divers. Divers swim with watches. That's why those watches exist. It's regular people that decided to wear them, companies took note, and they entered the general population. Clearly they're extremely popular, otherwise you wouldn't see them. You don't swim with a watch, so no one should? How egotistical is that? Sapphire is much more resistant to scratching. I wouldn't buy a watch without. Lume is important. Lets you see in the dark. Again, I wouldn't get a watch without it, unless it were a dress watch. Some people just like the look of mechanical dive watches. I love them. I'll gladly pay for them. For me, it's worth it.

 

High end watches are hand made. It's not a machine putting them together. It's also not easy. Hence the high price.

 

Personally I'd rather a simple ETA movement, but if I was quite wealthy I'd get something unique for sure. For the design that went into them, and the level of complication. Some are absolute engineering marvels. Granted, some are horrid, and aren't worth the scrap metal value, but others are stunning works of art. Now, as I assume a commoner like myself, this doesn't make sense to you. You just want to tell the time. Not everyone sees a watch as a simple tool.

 

Most things luxury have a wait list. If you flood the market, you decrease the value. You get stuck with stock that doesn't sell. It becomes less desirable. That's a very simple business concept.

 

I don't think quartz watches are underrated at all. In fact, I think you've answered your own rant in the first paragraph; most people simply don't need watches. Quartz watches are simple, yes, and very efficient. However they're often not as stylish, they're not as complex, and they're not considered art like the much more complicated watches.

 

Collecting most things is an expensive ordeal, especially when it involves buying more than one of said item. You don't have to buy luxury brands. I don't know why you're so focused on those. It's like you're saying you want to get into cars, but "Rolls Royce's are so expensive! Anyone who gets into cars is an idiot to spend that much money?!"

There are loads of micro brands offering very nice watches for pretty reasonable prices.

 

Really though....why do you care what other people do with their money?

 

 

On 7/17/2018 at 2:47 PM, Teddy07 said:

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

Style. Reliability. It's easier to glance at a watch without drawing attention to the action than it is to pull out a cell phone.

On 7/17/2018 at 3:09 PM, JoeyDM said:

It's rude to pull a phone out in a meeting. It's not rude to check your watch in a meeting. It is rude to do either on a date though.

Truth.

Though, if you do have a watch, it's a lot easier to sneak that look at the watch than it is the cell phone

On 7/17/2018 at 3:13 PM, valdyrgramr said:

 

Kinda depends on the context of why they're checking the time if you ask me.  If someone pulls out a phone and checks the time I don't see it as any different than checking the watch.  Moving on to doing other tasks is as rude as someone checking their watch because they're bored of the meeting, or checking their watch because of any other reason to be rude.  What if my watch has a game built in and I started playing that rather than focusing on the meeting?  What if I have a smartwatch and started doing another task?  Point is if you're just checking time then nobody should really care.

You're missing the whole stealth aspect. Most of the time you can check a watch without anyone knowing. A phone? Not so much.

On 7/17/2018 at 5:22 PM, kokakolia said:

I watched a lot of Nick Shabazz’ videos last year and it was a revelation! He’s probably the only guy on YouTube that says quartz > mechanical. And then he’s not afraid to admit that collecting watches is stupid. Nobody wants to admit that they have a problem. 

 

I want to add that the internet has changed watches forever. The well established watch brands from Seiko to Rolex are hyped to infinity. And cheap watches with generic parts are flooding the market. There’s no “in between”. Well maybe there is...I don’t know anymore. There are too many watches. I’ll just stick to my TUW Ruhla LOL. It’s noice!

You mean collecting watches is stupid to him. Again, what people collect is really no one else's business and can't be stated as fact. It's simply not.

There are literally hundreds if not thousands of in betweens. Check Kickstarter on any given day and you can find 10 to 15 micro brands with watches up there. Hamilton, Marathon, Squale, Ball, Deep Blue, Helson, Vortic, Weiss, Detroit Watch...

[kasugatei]

On 7/18/2018 at 2:37 AM, kokakolia said:

These watch experts make you believe that you absolutely need specific features that don't matter. I am talking about having 100m+ water resistance, a sapphire crystal, lume etc...None of that stuff matters.

I can agree with almost everything you said except sapphire crystal part. It matters, A LOT. I currently have Citizen Eco Drive watch with sapphire crystal for almost 10 years and I don't have a single scratch on the crystal. I can not say that for other watches that I had in my life. All of them eventually get their glass scratched.

 

I am more than happy with my current watch and I just want another thin one for wearing with suit because current one is too beefy to wear it under the shirt cuff and that would be all.

[Urishima]

On 17.7.2018 at 10:47 PM, Teddy07 said:

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

Because I hate fumbling around with my phone just to check the time. I just look at my wristwatch and there's the time. No reaching into my pocket or anything like that.

I just hate relying on the damn thin in general, the less I have to fumble around with it the better.

[Peskanova]

On 17/7/2018 at 8:04 PM, Froody129 said:

Well we could all use MacBooks because they work great and have battery life but instead we build PCs with overpriced parts and stupid cooling configurations in impractical cases. Why? It looks cool 

Ehm what? In which world do you live that mac is the savy way  

[711jrp]

F91-w FTW !!!! the worlds most deadly watch.

[kokakolia]

dizmo,

 

I suppose my rant was more focused towards YouTube watch videos and less towards watch collecting as a whole. This explains why I am so flustered towards mechanical luxury watches because most YouTubers are mechanical watch snobs that have a deep disdain for microbrands and affordable quartz watches (unless they’re made by Timex or Seiko). These YouTubers always ramble about “heritage”, even if it’s obviously half made up brand marketing. I say that quartz watches are criminally underrated by the YouTube watch gurus. There are some Nike watches that look really interesting but they won’t ever be reviewed. I am sure that the general population shares a different opinion. 

 

I’ll take back my ramble about watch features. Taken individually these features such as sapphire crystals and rotating bezels are desirable and people gladly pay for them. However, these features aren’t necessarily end-all-be-all. The ramble about swimming is my knee-jerk reaction to the overused YouTuber phrase: “You can swim with the watch”. Don’t care. But other people do?

 

Dive watches are most commonly used by chefs actually (says Alton Brown). The rotating bezel is a god send for timing things. Nurses use them too. This is why dive watches are very popular despite how few divers exist in the world. 

 

I just think that the overall impression I got from watch collecting from YouTube is stupid. I am losing my mind seeing every YouTuber worship the same 6 or 7 watches from Rolex and Seiko. You’d think that different personalities would have different opinions. The only two YouTubers I trust are “Just One More Watch” and “Nick Shabazz”. These two channels go out of their way to review as many different watches as possible and never come off as snob. 

 

I personally side with Nick Shabazz 100% on watch collecting. Watches, like cars are possibly the most expensive hobby to get into. Let’s not get drugs/alcohol involved in the discussion. That’s a giant can of worms. Other hobbies cost far less $. So from a $/enjoyment ratio watches are stupid compared to other things. But other people have different opinions. I am ignorant about luxury goods. 

 

8 hours ago, 711jrp said:

F91-w FTW !!!! the worlds most deadly watch.

Hands down, the F91-w is the most significant watch ever made. And it’s less than $10. Rolex doesn’t have anything on Casio LOL. 

 

9 hours ago, Peskanova said:

Ehm what? In which world do you live that mac is the savy way  

Resale value. But Lenovo Thinkpads accomplish that as well. And they’re just as expensive if not more! Rolex is all about resale value as well. If Breitling and Omega had the same resale value, you’d see more of those on YouTube. 

 

I am am rambling so much...I could be doing better things with my life. 

[dizmo]

8 hours ago, kokakolia said:

dizmo,

 

I suppose my rant was more focused towards YouTube watch videos and less towards watch collecting as a whole. This explains why I am so flustered towards mechanical luxury watches because most YouTubers are mechanical watch snobs that have a deep disdain for microbrands and affordable quartz watches (unless they’re made by Timex or Seiko). These YouTubers always ramble about “heritage”, even if it’s obviously half made up brand marketing. I say that quartz watches are criminally underrated by the YouTube watch gurus. There are some Nike watches that look really interesting but they won’t ever be reviewed. I am sure that the general population shares a different opinion. 

 

I’ll take back my ramble about watch features. Taken individually these features such as sapphire crystals and rotating bezels are desirable and people gladly pay for them. However, these features aren’t necessarily end-all-be-all. The ramble about swimming is my knee-jerk reaction to the overused YouTuber phrase: “You can swim with the watch”. Don’t care. But other people do?

 

Dive watches are most commonly used by chefs actually (says Alton Brown). The rotating bezel is a god send for timing things. Nurses use them too. This is why dive watches are very popular despite how few divers exist in the world. 

 

I just think that the overall impression I got from watch collecting from YouTube is stupid. I am losing my mind seeing every YouTuber worship the same 6 or 7 watches from Rolex and Seiko. You’d think that different personalities would have different opinions. The only two YouTubers I trust are “Just One More Watch” and “Nick Shabazz”. These two channels go out of their way to review as many different watches as possible and never come off as snob. 

 

I personally side with Nick Shabazz 100% on watch collecting. Watches, like cars are possibly the most expensive hobby to get into. Let’s not get drugs/alcohol involved in the discussion. That’s a giant can of worms. Other hobbies cost far less $. So from a $/enjoyment ratio watches are stupid compared to other things. But other people have different opinions. I am ignorant about luxury goods.

Heritage is important to collectors. It means the watch has something you can look back on to compare pricing, and how well it will or won't hold up. When you have a watch like a Rolex, you look back and you can see how well they've held their value over time. Even new micro brands aren't as desired for that reason; who knows what they'll be worth in even a year. Collecting isn't just having lots of one kind of item. Most people want the items they have in the collection to either maintain or gain value.

Otherwise you're called a hoarder.

 

Digital watches (I'm assuming that's what you're referring to with Nike) don't hold much value for the same reason smart watches don't; they're easily thrown into obsolescence with new features or technologies.

 

My current daily watch has a water depth rating of 30 ATM. I don't swim, but I like knowing that no amount of splashing water or anything like that will hurt it. If for some reason I happen to fall into the ocean, or need to dive into water to save someone (very, very slim chance but hey, you never know) I know my watch will survive. It's like water resistance on a cell phone. They don't need IP68, but it's nice to have. Just means it was build to a higher level of quality.

 

It's like most things in the world though; there will always be some models that are simply excellent examples of what they are, and are highly sought after.

I'd love a green Rolex Submariner, and Seiko has some real gems as well.

It's not that everyone only chooses to like those because of some cult like worship; they're just the best watches they've made.

 

I've only watched a few watch reviews, and it's mostly just to see what they're like, and if the people reviewing them have any glaring concerns about said watch. There are definitely some purchases I've changed my mind on thanks to them. I find The Urban Gentry is pretty good, though he's kind of an odd, slightly annoying fellow. He does tons of watch comparisons though, which is why I find his reviews actually useful. People that only have hands on with 10 or so watches aren't really helpful.

 

It's not stupid to those that enjoy it. You really can't say "x activity is so stupid!" Sure, it might be stupid to you, but you're not the only person on the planet.

The world takes all types. Stop letting others enjoyment bother you.

 

To quote people properly you need to use the @ sign and have it turn red like this @kokakolia.

[kokakolia]

Yeah, well about Nike watches. They’re all quartz. Some are digital, some are analog. I think that they should be collectable in the same vein as Swatch watches. I am far more interested pop culture and contemporary art design than the traditional. I only consider contemporary art, well...art. But that is just my ultra biased opinion. I remember being bored to tears twice at the Renaissance museum in Venice as a kid. Nike is an extremely important brand for shoes and their watches share a lot of that DNA. Watch collectors should take notice. Just look at this video: 

 

The Nike watch stands out from the legendary Rolexes and that says a lot! 

 

If watch collectors on YouTube were less worried about the value of their collection you’d see a lot more interesting pieces. I know it’s throwing money away compared to buying something like a Rolex, but it’s a more individualistic way of expressing yourself through your hobby. Things become valued when they’re appreciated. And this Nike watch is a fine piece of art that deserves to be appreciated. But it can be polarizing. A Rolex that is generic, inoffensive and durable is more likely to be appreciated by most people.

 

I want to hate Rolex but I can’t.

[dizmo]

To each their own I guess. I didn't like the look of those Nike watches, and I hate Nike shoes.

 

[Andreas Lilja]

On 7/17/2018 at 4:47 PM, Teddy07 said:

I don´t get why people wear watches in 2018. We got smartphones a long time ago

Takes way less time to rotate your arm than taking out your phone.

[mr moose]

I like cheap watches.  I have a nice ecodrive I wear out and on nice days, however the rest of the time I have a selection of sub $15 watches.   I am very physical in the workshop sop destroying watches is as common as destroying phones for me.