The current state of the desktop PC market is appalling.

[Razor Blade]

6 minutes ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

This, I have to disagree with.

 

Most of the time, my desktop is too far from my router to allow for wired connection. Which makes having wireless as an option good, otherwise I wouldn't be able to use it half the time.

What I meant was if you already have a wired connection hooked up, there is no reason to have the wireless connection too. Unless you were using it as a fail-over interface or something.

[Crunchy Dragon]

I didn't mention this in my first post, but having dedicated audio jacks makes it easier when getting standalone speakers or headphones to use alongside a microphone.

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, Razor Blade said:

What I meant was if you already have a wired connection hooked up, there is no reason to have the wireless connection too. Unless you were using it as a fail-over interface or something.

I basically do that too lol.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Crunchy Dragon said:

I didn't mention this in my first post, but having dedicated audio jacks makes it easier when getting standalone speakers or headphones to use alongside a microphone.

I use a USB microphone and HDMI for audio currently, but I've done multijack setups in the past.

 

 

The mic can pick up the TV outside my room crystal clear.

[M300843499]

Hmm my audio options vs that 3..5mm speaker/ mic port.

 

[Razor Blade]

I was just on Newegg to see how rare built in wireless is in motherboards...

 

21 results for AMD boards https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625 600540658&IsNodeId=1

 

93 results for Intel boards https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627 600540658&IsNodeId=1

 

Doesn't seem like you're that limited on options to me....

[Gix7Fifty]

OP get a new hobby then.

[minervx]

1 hour ago, veli2501 said:

First result from Google search "cheap desktop pc" AUD $674, that's USD $508. Height : 293.1mm (11.54”) | Width : 92.6mm (3.65”) | Depth : 314.5mm (12.38”)
http://www.dell.com/en-au/shop/cty/pdp/spd/inspiron-3268-desktop/a210845au?oc=a210845au&VEN1=sL32iNzey,194324517314,9011547612,c&ST=&pdv=c&VEN2=,&dgc=st&dgseg=dhs&cid=238119&lid=23414&acd=10589238119234140&VEN3=110304039008517019

This is a really glib point.  A few web links says nothing about the greater trend of affordable small form factor DIY PC's.  Some of the comments have argued against a few points here and there, but it's overall a fact that the laptop/tablet market has been advancing while the PC market has just been getting incremental upgrades with no innovation.

 

32 minutes ago, Razor Blade said:

I was just on Newegg to see how rare built in wireless is in motherboards...

 

21 results for AMD boards https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007625 600540658&IsNodeId=1

 

93 results for Intel boards https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007627 600540658&IsNodeId=1

 

Doesn't seem like you're that limited on options to me....

Why aren't they in all of them?

 

23 minutes ago, Gix7Fifty said:

OP get a new hobby then.

That's basically a non-answer telling me to F off.  The level of denial in the PC industry is insane.

[App4that]

1 minute ago, minervx said:

This is a really glib point.  A few web links says nothing about the greater trend of affordable small form factor DIY PC's.  Some of the comments have argued against a few points here and there, but it's overall a fact that the laptop/tablet market has been advancing while the PC market has just been getting incremental upgrades with no innovation.

 

What? There have been JUGE advancements in the last few years alone. 

[minervx]

6 minutes ago, App4that said:

What? There have been JUGE advancements in the last few years alone. 

Which advancements in the past few years?

 

Better: CPU's having more cores (after years of stagnation)

 

Worse: RAM and video card prices.

 

The Same: Internet/Networking, Peripherals, Cases, Power Supplies, Fans, Motherboards, Webcams, Audio Quality, Ports, Windows 10 OS.

 

I really don't see anything huge.

 

Video cards are particularly not in a good place.  We haven't seen any improvement whatsoever in like two years.  VRAM is expensive.  AMD's cards are over-inflated, and going with G-Sync is an extra cost.  Miners fluctuate the market.  Video card releases are infrequent.  AMD's Vega launch flopped and expectations are modest for their next card.  NVidia keeps delaying the release of their new cards because of how lukewarm the GPU production is.  4K graphics are being done efficiently on laptops (not to a high framerate gaming degree, but at least its there) yet cards are still very power-hungry for the performance they provide; no energy efficiency has translated over.  And worst of all, the market is so desperate for GPU's that even a 5% improvement will get people cheering.

[Drak3]

3 minutes ago, minervx said:

 

Why aren't they in all of them?

Not everyone wants that.

Don't force that upon those of us that don't want to pay for a feature that is useless to us.

5 minutes ago, minervx said:

it's overall a fact that the laptop/tablet market has been advancing while the PC market has just been getting incremental upgrades with no innovation.

The laptop/tablet market has been as stagnant as the desktop market for the past few years for the vast majority of devices, and many of those "highly" innovative devices cater to niches.

 

4 minutes ago, minervx said:

The level of denial in the PC industry is insane.

The world doesn't care. The world doesn't see any benefit in forcing technologies across the board when it only benefits a minority.

[veli2501]

5 minutes ago, minervx said:

This is a really glib point.  A few web links says nothing about the greater trend of affordable small form factor DIY PC's.  Some of the comments have argued against a few points here and there, but it's overall a fact that the laptop/tablet market has been advancing while the PC market has just been getting incremental upgrades with no innovation.

 

Everything is getting incremental updates.  PC, Laptop and Tablet.  Look at the specs of last years model tablets/laptops/phones compared to this years.  It's the way the entire tech industry works.

[Sellin Hugs]

2 hours ago, veli2501 said:

Yet all most of these problems can be avoided by a consumer willing to put in a little extra time researching what they want from their purchase.

This is true but even with all the research I did this market still sucks lol. This almost $3,000 PC I just built probably should have cost like 1500-2000 lol.

[Razor Blade]

7 minutes ago, minervx said:

 

Why aren't they in all of them?

Why is wireless offered in any of them? Especially for gaming motherboards... you're taking up precious PCIe lanes for a feature that not everyone needs.

[veli2501]

2 minutes ago, Sellin Hugs said:

This is true but even with all the research I did this market still sucks lol. This almost $3,000 PC I just built probably should have cost like 1500-2000 lol.

Cost is the only problem I see with the current PC market.  But with the exception of small form factor (niche) the OP did not mention this.

[minervx]

2 minutes ago, veli2501 said:

Everything is getting incremental updates.  PC, Laptop and Tablet.  Look at the specs of last years model tablets/laptops/phones compared to this years.  It's the way the entire tech industry works.

Phones and tablets have been getting incremental updates in the past 2 years but that's AFTER these mobile markets were revolutionized, vastly improved in processor speed, significantly improved in energy efficiency, significantly improved in form factor.  The mobile market has reached this point due to the fact that they've already improved as much as they mostly could.

 

However, the desktop market hasn't done any of these things and there's no logical reason to believe that desktops can't possibly be much better when there are plenty of areas to improve.

[App4that]

Just now, minervx said:

Which advancements in the past few years?

 

Better: CPU's having more cores.

 

Worse: RAM and video card prices.

 

The Same: Internet/Networking, Peripherals, Cases, Power Supplies, Fans, Motherboards, Ports,

 

I really don't see anything huge.

3 years ago, CPU.

Intel 4 cores at 4.5-4.7GHz

AMD, bahahahahahahhaa.

 

Today CPU.

Intel, 6 cores at 5-5.2GHz

AMD, 8 cores with 16 threads.

 

3 years ago memory.

1600MHz

 

Memory today.

3200MHz 

 

3 years ago.

Limited radiator support in cases.

Limited keyboard options. 

Limit choice in modular power supplies 

M.2 support was rare and slow

SSDs were limited in capacity and expensive. 

Wireless only on premium boards

Few AIOs

No way to control lighting across different brands with the same software. 

No type C support on motherboards 

Limited high refresh rate monitors

 

Could go on

[AshleyAshes]

2 hours ago, minervx said:

Have separate 3.5mm jacks for both the microphone and the headphones.  ($50 smartphones can afford a combined audio jack)

It can be safely assumed that any phone using an external microphone will have that combined with the ear buds.  On a PC however, many users use SEPARATE microphones.  I for example use a stereo headset and then a seperate boom microphone from Rode.  A combined mic/headphone jack would only invent a new need for a headphone/mic jack splitter cable for those wanting to use seperate headphones and microphones.

 

Also, frankly, with criticisms like this, I think you're kinda missing the point of a desktop PC: They are supposed to be big and flexible.  Having lots of extra ports and expansion options that you'd have to sacrifice for a smaller form factor PC.  It's akin you complaining that a pickup truck is wasting lots of space by having that empty bed behind the cab when that space can't even be used for passengers.  That's not what a pickup truck is for.  It's so you can have lots of space to carry stuff.

[Razor Blade]

15 minutes ago, minervx said:

This is a really glib point.  A few web links says nothing about the greater trend of affordable small form factor DIY PC's.  Some of the comments have argued against a few points here and there, but it's overall a fact that the laptop/tablet market has been advancing while the PC market has just been getting incremental upgrades with no innovation.

Really? Seems like the PC market has been quite busy with new generations of hardware coming out...meanwhile it seems like the laptops are trying to become more like tablets and less like a laptop. Thinner, lighter, touch screen, folding displays, non removable or upgradable hardware, etc.

[veli2501]

4 minutes ago, minervx said:

Phones and tablets have been getting incremental updates in the past 2 years but that's AFTER these mobile markets were revolutionized, vastly improved in processor speed, significantly improved in energy efficiency, significantly improved in form factor.  The mobile market has reached this point due to the fact that they've already improved as much as they mostly could.

No it's been the same since mobiles were invented.  There was a massive leap when smart phone's were introduced but since then it's been incremental. Trust me I was following the market very closely up until a couple of years ago.

[Kamjam21xx]

Wifi is integrated on motherboards?

Nooo i hate that, i dont want that. I. Gonna have to make sure my new motherboard doesnt have that.

[Crunchy Dragon]

16 minutes ago, minervx said:

Video cards are particularly not in a good place.  We haven't seen any improvement whatsoever in like two years.

Because the GTX 1080 totally doesn't beat out the previous generation 980 in everything.

 

If you want to talk about how far we've come in video cards, look at Kepler vs Pascal. We have seen some pretty big performance changes in the last few years for the GPU market.

8 minutes ago, App4that said:

3 years ago memory.

1600MHz

 

Memory today.

3200MHz

And pushing towards(past in some cases) 4000Mhz.

[minervx]

 

Just now, App4that said:

Today CPU.

Intel, 6 cores at 5-5.2GHz

AMD, 8 cores with 16 threads.

I agree these are meaningful improvements and I appreciate them.  This is the only thing that I could call a huge improvement, but if you factor in 2013-2016 basically being a joke, this was due to happen.  

Just now, App4that said:

3 years ago memory.

1600MHz

 

Memory today.

3200MHz 

I agree this is a positive thing, but the real world benefits aren't significant?  Are applications actually running twice as fast because of this?  Not really.  How many frames in games does having 3200 MHz RAM even add?

Just now, App4that said:

3 years ago.

Limited radiator support in cases.

It's still f----d because liquid cooling is extremely diminishing in returns.  I'm not an expert on liquid cooling, but I can't say it's very worthwhile for most builds even now.

Just now, App4that said:

Limited keyboard options. 

We're still very limited and deprived of innovation.

Just now, App4that said:

Limit choice in modular power supplies 

M.2 support was rare and slow
SSDs were limited in capacity and expensive. 

Agreed

Just now, App4that said:

No type C support on motherboards 

Of course, type C wasn't really out  for the masses yet 3 years ago.  But now that it is, PC's are still the grandpa of the industry.  Some of them have 2-3 of them.  But many people who built a $800+ PC in 2016 and 2017 didn't get any.  PC's are adopting them, but way too slowly.  

 

[Crunchy Dragon]

Just now, minervx said:

How many frames in games does having 3200 MHz RAM even add?

Ryzen loves fast RAM. You can actually see increased performance with faster RAM in a Ryzen system.

1 minute ago, minervx said:

I can't say it's very worthwhile for most builds even now.

Why is that? You can overclock farther, get lower temperatures, and boost your aesthetic all at the same time.

[minervx]

4 minutes ago, veli2501 said:

No it's been the same since mobiles were invented.  There was a massive leap when smart phone's were introduced but since then it's been incremental. Trust me I was following the market very closely up until a couple of years ago.

Smartphones got significant improvements from 2012-2015 even.  Quick charge, 4K cameras, high-res IPS/OLED displays, better battery life, durable screens, waterproofing.  Budget phones actually became usable.  I'm in full agreement that the mobile market has been tapering downward in terms of incremental improvements.  But if we're looking in the past 5 years, at least it did have major improvements even if most of them were in 2013-2014 rather than 2015/16/17.

 

The PC market in the past 5 years hasn't had enough enhancements to justify being incremental.