Netherlands Gaming Authority finds 4 out of 10 Lootboxes are illegal

[AlTech]

The Netherlands Gaming Authority has conducted a study on 10 lootboxes and found that 4 of the 10 lootboxes contravene the law.

 

The reasoning behind this is that the content that can be won are chance based and that they can be sold outside of the game and have a market value. The gambling aspect of them (as lootboxes are a game of chance) was not authorized and thus the 4 offending lootboxes are entirely 100% illegal.

 

It should be noted that all 10 of the lootboxes studied were addictive and that socially vulnerable groups are being encouraged to play games of chance.

 

The authority has said that the 4 lootboxes did contain some elements of Slot Machine mechanics.

 

During the studying of these lootboxes, their risk factor and several other figures were tested using tools originally designed for traditional forms of gambling. This is one area that authorities in general throughout the world need to work on.

 

The lootboxes which have a higher risk factor to players were found to be comparable to Blackjack or Roulette in terms of Addiction potential.

 

Game Publishers are not you friend. Most haven't put in measures to curb possible addiciton issues and would benefit off of any addiciton issues if any arose.

 

Whilst the source I have linked was unable to determine the 4 games that were at fault. Don't quote me on this, but I think I have read elsewhere that the 4 games were Fifa, Rocket League, Team Fortress 2 and PUBG.

 

So yeah, some lootboxes are definitely gambling and definitely illegal. Hopefully the EU takes a better look into them and conducts a study of their own although admitedly we wouldn't see the results for quite a while if they did.

 

Source:

 

Note to mods: Didn't see the earlier post but it's not in compliance with TNR guidelines. Please use your judgement as to what to do. Thanks .

[NelizMastr]

Wasn't a similar thing posted like a week ago?

 

 

[AlTech]

Just now, NelizMastr said:

Wasn't a similar thing posted like a week ago?

That might have been about the Dutch Gambling Authority's investigation. The source video for this is less than a week old.

[NelizMastr]

2 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

That might have been about the Dutch Gambling Authority's investigation. The source video for this is less than a week old.

Ah gotcha  you're right.

[AlTech]

6 minutes ago, NelizMastr said:

snip

Oh well. Didn't see that but now that I do, what you've linked doesn't meet TNR posting guidelines anyhow.

[dizmo]

This will likely change little. At the very most, Europe might see its own versions of games with particularly bad loot boxes, much like it has its own version of Windows to comply with privacy laws (IIRC). If it's just a couple small countries and not an entire EU ban? Just don't sell to those countries. The game sales aren't nearly as high as loot box revenue anyway. 

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, dizmo said:

This will likely change little. At the very most, Europe might see its own versions of games with particularly bad loot boxes, much like it has its own version of Windows to comply with privacy laws (IIRC).

It has it's own version of Windows to comply with anti-trust laws and stuff.

[tomaatvk]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

That might have been about the Dutch Gambling Authority's investigation. The source video for this is less than a week old.

Sorry, but this is also about the dutch gambling authority. If you look at the source of the video, it links to the 'kansspelautoriteit' which is dutch for gambling games authority (translated quite litterly), but in practice they just look at gambling in general, they don't care about the 'game' aspect. There also doesn't even exist a dutch gaming authority.

The source of the video is also the same one used in the week old topic on this forum.

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, tomaatvk said:

Sorry, but this is also about the dutch gambling authority. If you look at the source of the video, it links to the 'kansspelautoriteit' which is dutch for gambling games authority (translated quite litterly), it is not an overall gaming authority. There also doesn't even exist a dutch gaming authority.

Yeah I realized. And for now this topic is staying here because the other one didn't follow posting guidelines.

 

[tomaatvk]

Just now, AluminiumTech said:

Yeah I realized. And for now this topic is staying here because the other one didn't follow posting guidelines.

 

True, but it's mostly a silent hint so you'd maybe change the title and first paragraph a bit to make them correct

Also, the list of 4 games was not official, they will only be made official if they don't comply with the changes suggested by the authority after the 8 week period. As of now that list is pure speculation (though probably correct).

[aezakmi]

League loot boxes aren't gambling, you earn boxes and keys while you play and the things inside are merely cosmetic

[AlTech]

Just now, tomaatvk said:

True, but it's mostly a silent hint so you'd maybe change the title and first paragraph a bit to make them correct

The document the video gets info from says Netherlands Gaming Authority.

6 minutes ago, aezakmi said:

League loot boxes aren't gambling, you earn boxes and keys while you play and the things inside are merely cosmetic

Are you able to sell the content you receive from them? if so then it is gambling.

[aezakmi]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Are you able to sell the content you receive from them? if so then it is gambling.

No, whatever you win stays in your account, you can't even gift or transfer the stuff, they made it that way to prevent abuse of the system by using fake or secondary (smurf) accounts

[minibois]

7 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

The document the video gets info from says Netherlands Gaming Authority.

Are you able to sell the content you receive from them? if so then it is gambling.

1 minute ago, aezakmi said:

No, whatever you win stays in your account, you can't even gift or transfer the stuff, they made it that way to prevent abuse of the system by using fake or secondary (smurf) accounts

Int that case, it's probably not about the League of Legends. They are mainly seeking to ban games that offer a random thing in a lootbox that carries a monetary value outside of the game (CS:GO skins would be a good example of this).

 

Source: https://www.kansspelautoriteit.nl/nieuws/alle-nieuwsberichten/2018/april/artikel-0/

Quote

Ban:

Of the 10 studied lootboxes, 4 are breaking the law. This is because the content of the lootboxes is randomly decided. Furthermore, these items can be traded outside the game; the content has an economic value. It is forbidden to offer these types of games with chance in it to Dutch players without a permit.

Original:

Spoiler

Verbod
Van de tien onderzochte loot boxes zijn er vier in strijd met de wet. Dit komt omdat het toeval de inhoud van deze loot boxes bepaalt. Bovendien kunnen de prijzen buiten het spel om verhandeld worden: de prijzen hebben economische waarde. Het is verboden om dit soort kansspelen zonder vergunning aan te bieden aan de Nederlandse spelers.

 

27 minutes ago, tomaatvk said:

True, but it's mostly a silent hint so you'd maybe change the title and first paragraph a bit to make them correct

Also, the list of 4 games was not official, they will only be made official if they don't comply with the changes suggested by the authority after the 8 week period. As of now that list is pure speculation (though probably correct).

They do call themselves "the Gaming Authority" on their English website, but it could cause confusion that is just because 'game' can translate in two ways in Dutch: videogame or just a game in general (boardgame, cardgame, etc.)

[aezakmi]

4 minutes ago, Minibois said:

Int that case, it's probably not about the League of Legends. They are mainly seeking to ban games that offer a random thing in a lootbox that carries a monetary value outside of the game (CS:GO skins would be a good example of this).

 

Source: https://www.kansspelautoriteit.nl/nieuws/alle-nieuwsberichten/2018/april/artikel-0/

Original:

  Reveal hidden contents

Verbod
Van de tien onderzochte loot boxes zijn er vier in strijd met de wet. Dit komt omdat het toeval de inhoud van deze loot boxes bepaalt. Bovendien kunnen de prijzen buiten het spel om verhandeld worden: de prijzen hebben economische waarde. Het is verboden om dit soort kansspelen zonder vergunning aan te bieden aan de Nederlandse spelers.

 

They do call themselves "the Gaming Authority" on their English website, but it could cause confusion that is just because 'game' can translate in two ways in Dutch: videogame or just a game in general (boardgame, cardgame, etc.)

DOTA 2 too, there are really expensive items in that game and a whole black market of that stuff

[tomaatvk]

50 minutes ago, Minibois said:

They do call themselves "the Gaming Authority" on their English website, but it could cause confusion that is just because 'game' can translate in two ways in Dutch: videogame or just a game in general (boardgame, cardgame, etc.)

Damn, that's a really bogus translation as game is way to broad of a translation for gambling specific games. I'm genuently supprised.

Aside from naming, I do hope this controversy does calm the huge shift towards lootboxes in regular games. Be it because they stop the selling of the items in it and thus making people less interested in buying them and thus less profitable (so less reason to implement) or just because they want to stay away from it.

[Wolf ~ IRONI]

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The Netherlands Gaming Authority has conducted a study on 10 lootboxes and found that 4 of the 10 lootboxes contravene the law.

 

The reasoning behind this is that the content that can be won are chance based and that they can be sold outside of the game and have a market value. The gambling aspect of them (as lootboxes are a game of chance) was not authorized and thus the 4 offending lootboxes are entirely 100% illegal.

 

It should be noted that all 10 of the lootboxes studied were addictive and that socially vulnerable groups are being encouraged to play games of chance.

 

The authority has said that the 4 lootboxes did contain some elements of Slot Machine mechanics.

 

During the studying of these lootboxes, their risk factor and several other figures were tested using tools originally designed for traditional forms of gambling. This is one area that authorities in general throughout the world need to work on.

 

The lootboxes which have a higher risk factor to players were found to be comparable to Blackjack or Roulette in terms of Addiction potential.

 

Game Publishers are not you friend. Most haven't put in measures to curb possible addiciton issues and would benefit off of any addiciton issues if any arose.

 

Whilst the source I have linked was unable to determine the 4 games that were at fault. Don't quote me on this, but I think I have read elsewhere that the 4 games were Fifa, Rocket League, Team Fortress 2 and PUBG.

 

So yeah, some lootboxes are definitely gambling and definitely illegal. Hopefully the EU takes a better look into them and conducts a study of their own although admitedly we wouldn't see the results for quite a while if they did.

 

Source:

 

Note to mods: Didn't see the earlier post but it's not in compliance with TNR guidelines. Please use your judgement as to what to do. Thanks .

mij part gaat het hele lootbox gebeure maar weg.

[dizmo]

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

It has it's own version of Windows to comply with anti-trust laws and stuff.

Exactly my point. 

[DarkBlade2117]

Hardly anything will change. It was even stated in the video that if 6/10 games "avoided" the law that the 4 that didn't are likely to only need minor tweaks to comply with it. And as much as they are bad I much rather not have a system like Fortnite where on a daily there are $20 skins released and if you wan the whole set it being nearly $30. Fortnite is making more money than any of these games that have loot boxes. I have friends who have spent $300 on Fortnite but have not spent even half that on every game that has loot boxes combined. Again, 4 games? PUBG? CS:GO? Fifa? I mean, any game on OPSKINS that allows you to sell your skins for crypto or cash could be argued to be on this list.

[Ivan1941]

Just adding an update: 

18 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The Netherlands Gaming Authority has conducted a study on 10 lootboxes and found that 4 of the 10 lootboxes contravene the law.

 

The reasoning behind this is that the content that can be won are chance based and that they can be sold outside of the game and have a market value. The gambling aspect of them (as lootboxes are a game of chance) was not authorized and thus the 4 offending lootboxes are entirely 100% illegal.

 

It should be noted that all 10 of the lootboxes studied were addictive and that socially vulnerable groups are being encouraged to play games of chance.

 

The authority has said that the 4 lootboxes did contain some elements of Slot Machine mechanics.

 

During the studying of these lootboxes, their risk factor and several other figures were tested using tools originally designed for traditional forms of gambling. This is one area that authorities in general throughout the world need to work on.

 

The lootboxes which have a higher risk factor to players were found to be comparable to Blackjack or Roulette in terms of Addiction potential.

 

Game Publishers are not you friend. Most haven't put in measures to curb possible addiciton issues and would benefit off of any addiciton issues if any arose.

 

Whilst the source I have linked was unable to determine the 4 games that were at fault. Don't quote me on this, but I think I have read elsewhere that the 4 games were Fifa, Rocket League, Team Fortress 2 and PUBG.

 

So yeah, some lootboxes are definitely gambling and definitely illegal. Hopefully the EU takes a better look into them and conducts a study of their own although admitedly we wouldn't see the results for quite a while if they did.

 

Source:

 

Note to mods: Didn't see the earlier post but it's not in compliance with TNR guidelines. Please use your judgement as to what to do. Thanks .

Just adding an update:

 

The Belgian equivalent of the Dutch Gaming Authorithy, just came out with a similar report.

Only they added a threath of a fine up to €800.000 and prison sentences up to 5 years. Our minister first wants to have a dialog with the developpers before they resort to this means, but it does give a clear signal in my eyes.

 

source: http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20180424_03481096