LTT in the news! IMac pro video featured in multiple articles from 'news websites'

[captain_to_fire]

2 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Actually I pulled that laptop straight off their website as of my posting.

 

No clue how I got the ram wrong. Since I could have swore it said all of them come with 4gb standard with options to upgrade.

 

That being said they are using 2133 ram, which is also much slower than that of the machines I linked. Build quality doesn't account for that much of a difference.

Are you sure you loaded Apple’s site or you rant it on Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine? Or you actually embarrassed yourself because I don’t think people will get that wrong when reading through Apple’s spec sheet. 

[AngryBeaver]

1 minute ago, captain_to_fire said:

Are you sure you loaded Apple’s site or you rant it on Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine? Or you actually embarrassed yourself because I don’t think people will get that wrong when reading through Apple’s spec sheet. 

I'm trying to work and put together posts for this thread. I will make a slip time to time lol.

[GDRRiley]

13 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

That’s exactly what innovation is. An improvement on an existing idea or product.

 

This is why I cringe when people call Apple’s recent stuff “inventions”. An invention is something radically different and nothing we have totally seen before. An innovation is an improvement on an an existing idea or product.

NO apple just refines, nothing they have every done wasn't done before. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

My point wasn't that Apple invented NFC payments, because it clearly didn't.  The point is that it had the first implementation that really worked

Why am I not surprised that you would bring this up... This is always how it goes.

Some Apple fan claims that Apple did something first.

Someone points out they didn't.

The Apple fan responds with "they were the first to do it right", which is an entirely subjective statement.

 

 

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

 We need to get away from this false notion that Apple simply slaps its name on existing technology and rides it to success, because it often doesn't; in many cases, it thoroughly reworks the technology to eliminate the pain points that other companies didn't bother to fix.  That's innovation.

I agree, but we also have to get rid of this false notion that Apple are super innovative and is what is driving the industry forward. They steal A TON of ideas, which they don't improve on, yet get hailed as the second coming of Jesus. They also do a lot of work which is legitimately good, which gets shat on by the Apple haters.

The problem is that people don't seem to be able to find an objective middle ground. It's either "without Apple we would still have flip phones!" or "Apple has never contributed to anything".

I'd say Apple and Samsung/Google has contributed about an equal amount to the current iteration of smartphones.

[ZXR]

I think we can all agree that apples pricing is pretty bad, but it seems to me (judging by the three apple users in my family) that they are willing to pay the huge price premium because:

 

a) they like the 'seamless connectivity between their devices' and that 'you just cant find that kind of experience on windows' 

 

b) they have already invested too much money in the apple ecosystem that they 'just aren't able to make the transition into windows'.

 

This all blows me away. About a month ago I was looking for a basic mp3 player, and i naturally looked up the iPod to see how much it would cost. It turns out that the only iPod apple still makes is the ipod touch, which sells for over $200, and that if you want to buy a used ipod nano or classic on somewhere like ebay, it will cost you well over $60 (in the UK at least). For that price I could just buy a used iphone 5s, for $50 on ebay. 

 

btw, i didnt want to buy into the apple ecosystem so i just ended up buying a used smartwatch and some wireless earphones for the combined price of $40 which allows me to play music wirelessly from the onboard smartwatch storage.

[D13H4RD]

5 hours ago, Zeddex said:

Ok so now a youtube video has been uploaded by 'Rene Ritchie'. The video basically says that apple generally wont repair products that have been 'tampered with'. The thing is that linus told andrea that he had taken apart the Imac and he probably knew that apple wouldn't repair it due to that, but the problem is that apple released a product without creating or giving out repair guides to AASPs and wont provide them with parts needed to repair the product. 

 

The comments on the video are pretty funny. Basically just more apple fanboys saying how glad they are that someone 'called out linus' on his video.

René Ritchie is one of the biggest Apple fanboys around.

[RedRound2]

43 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Why am I not surprised that you would bring this up... This is always how it goes.

Some Apple fan claims that Apple did something first.

Someone points out they didn't.

The Apple fan responds with "they were the first to do it right", which is an entirely subjective statement.

Really though, he was talking about Apple pay and it's fair to say its a success. More and more countries have mobile payments making the buzz due to Apple Pay. And all the other implementations from other companies have been a direct copy of Apple like google pay, samsung pay (+MST), lg pay, etc

So unless you think that Apple is a successful company as also a subjective statement, i think it's fair to say it's objective. If it's the former, I will raise the white flag right here and now.

Quote

I agree, but we also have to get rid of this false notion that Apple are super innovative and is what is driving the industry forward. They steal A TON of ideas, which they don't improve on, yet get hailed as the second coming of Jesus. They also do a lot of work which is legitimately good, which gets shat on by the Apple haters.

The problem is that people don't seem to be able to find an objective middle ground. It's either "without Apple we would still have flip phones!" or "Apple has never contributed to anything".

I'd say Apple and Samsung/Google has contributed about an equal amount to the current iteration of smartphones.

How is it a false notion? Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, smartwatches (the only good one at this point), tablets, apple pay, airpods etc were all huge things pushed forward by apple.

 

I'm not denying theyve taken ideas from others like water resistance, apple music, wireless charging, etc but I'm pretty sure Apple has made the most number of consumer facing strides in consumer portable gadgets than most other companies. And that's where my appreciation for apple comes from

[Randogg]

21 minutes ago, Zeddex said:

I think we can all agree that apples pricing is pretty bad, but it seems to me (judging by the three apple users in my family) that they are willing to pay the huge price premium because:

 

a) they like the 'seamless connectivity between their devices' and that 'you just cant find that kind of experience on windows' 

 

b) they have already invested too much money in the apple ecosystem that they 'just aren't able to make the transition into windows'.

 

Point B is the one I'd like to focus on. Apple has been successful in tying people to their ecosystem. Amazon, Google, and Microsoft have tried, but are not able to duplicate this. The ecosystem argument has been one of Apple's strengths for many years, even back to the 80's. Both hardware and software used to be considerably more expensive than it is now. For example, if you bought Photoshop in the late 80's you used a Mac because the PC did not have the same capabilities at the time. Going forward, due to the expense of the software when professionals would upgrade they would stick with the Mac. With the iTunes store, Apple was able to duplicate this with home users.

[dalekphalm]

On 4/18/2018 at 7:11 PM, AnonymousGuy said:

 Break a Razer or HP or any other brand and let me know how much it costs to ship back to China to be repaired, if they can even offer you that at all.

Disclaimer - I haven't read the entire thread yet, buuuut, I need to comment on this:

Your example is bad.

 

Razer? Sure. I have no idea if they provide replacement parts to any serious degree.

 

But HP? They're actually pretty much the best computer manufacturer in the world when it comes to replacement parts. Let me introduce you to HP Part Surfer:

http://partsurfer.hp.com/search.aspx

 

Example:

HP ProBook x360 11 G1 (A convertible laptop. We recently purchased 10 of them at work)

PN: 1FY93UT#ABA

http://partsurfer.hp.com/Search.aspx?searchText=1FY93UT

 

They literally have everything listed. Internal ribbon cables. Logic boards. Hinges. Webcam. WIFI module. Display assembly. You could probably buy each individual part and assemble the entire computer.

 

Obviously they might not keep stock with older products that are discontinued, but even so, it lists the official part numbers for everything, so sourcing it via 3rd party becomes much easier.

[D13H4RD]

Just now, RedRound2 said:

How is it a false notion? Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, smartwatches (the only good one at this point), tablets, apple pay, etc were all huge things pushed forward by apple.

 

I'm not denying theyve taken ideas from others like water resistance, apple music, wireless charging, etc but I'm pretty sure Apple has made the most number of consumer facing strides in consumer portable gadgets than most other companies. And that's where my appreciation for apple comes from

Many of that may be true, but I still maintain that Apple is no more special than other companies in tech.

 

I’ll say it once more. I don’t hate Apple but I also don’t overwhelmingly like them. I like some of their products but I dislike their strategy and think people are giving them much more credit than they really deserve.

 

They do some good things but they also do some really shitty things.

[LAwLz]

36 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

Really though, he was talking about Apple pay and it's fair to say its a success. More and more countries have mobile payments making the buzz due to Apple Pay. And all the other implementations from other companies have been a direct copy of Apple like google pay, samsung pay (+MST), lg pay, etc

So unless you think that Apple is a successful company as also a subjective statement, i think it's fair to say it's objective. If it's the former, I will raise the white flag right here and now.

Ehm, when did I say Apple wasn't successful? This has to be the worst attempt at a strawman I have ever seen.

 

36 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

How is it a false notion? Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, smartwatches (the only good one at this point), tablets, apple pay, airpods etc were all huge things pushed forward by apple.

 

I'm not denying theyve taken ideas from others like water resistance, apple music, wireless charging, etc but I'm pretty sure Apple has made the most number of consumer facing strides in consumer portable gadgets than most other companies. And that's where my appreciation for apple comes from

Are you really going to try and do this whole "let's list the most things which originated from platform X to determine who contributed the most"? You're completely missing the point I was making.

 

Me: "I think people are way too biased and heavy leaning towards either Apple being the best thing ever or the worst thing ever".

You: "Yeah I agree that people hate on Apple too much. Apple are clearly the best and everyone else are just copying them".

[RedRound2]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Ehm, when did I say Apple wasn't successful? This has to be the worst attempt at a strawman I have ever seen.

Can't believe I have to explain this to you.

You called Apple Pay's success subjective (which it's not). I said if you also interpret that Apple is a successful company as subjective, i give up. (as an indication that there's no point in having a sensible conversation)

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Me: "I think people are way too biased and heavy leaning towards either Apple being the best thing ever or the worst thing ever".

You: "Yeah I agree that people hate on Apple too much. Apple are clearly the best and everyone else are just copying them".

Umm, I can also make a list where everyone else contributed something to the tech industry. I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing

[ZXR]

On 19/04/2018 at 1:50 AM, AnonymousGuy said:

Thing is, this wasn't a warranty issue.  Show up with a Razer or HP with a smashed screen and they're going to laugh and say it's not their problem and there's nothing you can do to repair it (at best "here's a 5% off coupon to buy a new one").   Apple products have a whole economy around offering OEM parts and repair service that other OEM's don't  come close to matching.  Linus just happened to fall into a corner case of talking to the wrong people in the wrong place, and his busted imac is in fact repairable.

This is absolutely false. I currently own a HP Omen 15 laptop from 2017. I was having trouble with small problems on it, such as the fan clicking, the logo peeling, etc. I used my manufacturer warranty to send the product back to the hp service centre in the UK. Withing a week, they sent it back, and not only had all the problems been fixed, they had replaced the whole keyboard and front panel due to some minor imperfections i hadn't even noticed. Based on this i decided to extend my warranty another two years for only around $40. 

[AngryBeaver]

1 hour ago, RedRound2 said:

How is it a false notion? Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, smartwatches (the only good one at this point), tablets, apple pay, airpods etc were all huge things pushed forward by apple.

 

I'm not denying theyve taken ideas from others like water resistance, apple music, wireless charging, etc but I'm pretty sure Apple has made the most number of consumer facing strides in consumer portable gadgets than most other companies. And that's where my appreciation for apple comes from

 

All of which existed independent of apple. It wasn't until they slapped their name on existing technology that people decided to praise them for it.

 

Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, and smartwatches were already around before apple made one or an item using it which gave the technology more traction (because it's on an APPLE!) Even now these technologies are being better implemented with the android manufacturers. The Samsung Oled on the original S1 was a huge game changer, but you don't see them running around like apple talking about how innovative they are. 

 

Build quality is one that really is funny to me. I can drop an Iphone from about ear level and it will break 1/4 of the time. I can pick up a old nokia flip phone and drop it out of a plane, run it over with a tank, and that damn thing will still work. Those were the toughest phones known to man I swear.

 

Smart watches- The first smart watch was unveiled in 1998 from a man named Steve Mann. It ran a version of linux. Then in 1999 samsung made the first watch phone with an lcd screen. In 2000 IBM had their own version of the linux watch.

 

Biometrics, there were several little gimmicky phones that ran their own version of them before the apple version (which was just as gimmicky)

 

The Virtual assistant for smart phones was first released by IBM it was known as SIMON.

 

When it comes to first high res display apple was also not the first here either. There were phones from LG, blackberry, and others that already did that. The iphone was just one of the first widely adapted ones.

 

So apple didn't actually invent or actually change anything significantly with these technologies. All they did was put their name on it and people jumped on the apple bandwagon. My biggest gripe is apple always claims they did it first and all of their fanbase will eat it up all day every day. When in fact these things were already produced by other people first. Then apple turns around and sue's companys like samsung for stealing their designs "A rectangular phone with rounded edges." Even though they weren't even the first there. They sued over the icons on their phones too.. saying others were stealing their intellectual property and ideas. Then we had the lawsuit over phone gestures, and the list goes on and on.

 

So that is what has always bothered me about apple. They take other peoples ideas, use it on their own devices and then claim they invented it and sue everyone else they think is using that idea.

[LAwLz]

42 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

You called Apple Pay's success subjective (which it's not).

No I didn't. If you go back and reread my post you will see that I did not once use the word "success" or "successful".

Stop with the strawman arguments.

 

 

8 minutes ago, AngryBeaver said:

Build quality is one that really is funny to me. I can drop an Iphone from about ear level and it will break 1/4 of the time. I can pick up a old nokia flip phone and drop it out of a place, run it over with a tank, and that damn thing will still work. Those were the toughest phones known to man I swear.

When people talk about "build quality" they don't talk about things like durability or reliability. They are purely talking about how premium something feels in the hand.

[AngryBeaver]

17 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

When people talk about "build quality" they don't talk about things like durability or reliability. They are purely talking about how premium something feels in the hand.

I know, but saying a device feels premium is much different than to just say it is a good "build quality." Builds quality can refer to much more. When I think of build quality I think of things like..

 

Button placements or ergonomics.

Does it feel premium

how durable is it

how well does it respond and function to input commands

etc

 

I mean the glass front and back phones with metal sides feel like high dollar items, but they also break from a unfortunate drop. So for me build quality is about balance. If you sacrifice one thing for the sake of another... then quality has left the building and now all you have is a device that excels in a few areas.

[Commodus]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Why am I not surprised that you would bring this up... This is always how it goes.

Some Apple fan claims that Apple did something first.

Someone points out they didn't.

The Apple fan responds with "they were the first to do it right", which is an entirely subjective statement.

 

 

I agree, but we also have to get rid of this false notion that Apple are super innovative and is what is driving the industry forward. They steal A TON of ideas, which they don't improve on, yet get hailed as the second coming of Jesus. They also do a lot of work which is legitimately good, which gets shat on by the Apple haters.

The problem is that people don't seem to be able to find an objective middle ground. It's either "without Apple we would still have flip phones!" or "Apple has never contributed to anything".

I'd say Apple and Samsung/Google has contributed about an equal amount to the current iteration of smartphones.

Only it's not a subjective statement.  NFC payment use surged when Apple Pay became available, and the rest of the industry followed suit.  You can point to clear functional improvements: it improved trust by effectively eliminating Apple's role in the transaction, it eliminated dependence on carriers, it adopted a truly universal NFC terminal standard, and you could use it while your phone was still locked.

 

Yes, the truth is somewhere in between the "everybody owes everything to Apple" and "Apple just borrows from others."  My beef is that there are a few points where Apple really did change the landscape, and it's disingenuous to imply that Apple's strategy is to simply slap its logo on something and watch the money roll in.  I certainly don't buy the claim that innovation stopped at Apple the microsecond Jobs died.  You could say the company's risk-taking has been mixed since then (for every Apple Pay there's a Mac Pro), but it hasn't been running on autopilot.

[Commodus]

3 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Actually I pulled that laptop straight off their website as of my posting.

 

No clue how I got the ram wrong. Since I could have swore it said all of them come with 4gb standard with options to upgrade.

 

That being said they are using 2133 ram, which is also much slower than that of the machines I linked. Build quality doesn't account for that much of a difference.

The point, I'd say, is that you need to be more careful and compare like for like when you can.  Memory speed might play an issue, but I'd want to benchmark it before making a definitive statement since there are areas where the MacBook Pro clearly has other advantages.

 

No, build quality doesn't make for that much of a difference, but a lot of the price difference evaporates when you make a fair comparison.  A better analogy would be the XPS 15: it has a similar 2.8GHz Core i7 chip, 16GB of RAM, and dedicated graphics.  It officially costs $1,750 and does have a larger SSD, but that starting price also nets you a lower-resolution 1080p display, just one Thunderbolt 3 port (that's your only USB-C option) and no fingerprint reader.

 

The Mac is still more expensive, but the gap is much narrower and does start to make more sense when you throw in feature, quality and support costs (and based on a friend's recent Dell purchase, Apple is exponentially better in quality and support).  That's not to say Apple doesn't charge a premium, because it definitely does... but it's not as much of a premium as you'd think.

[LAwLz]

6 minutes ago, Commodus said:

Only it's not a subjective statement.  NFC payment use surged when Apple Pay became available, and the rest of the industry followed suit.  You can point to clear functional improvements: it improved trust by effectively eliminating Apple's role in the transaction, it eliminated dependence on carriers, it adopted a truly universal NFC terminal standard, and you could use it while your phone was still locked.

It is subjective to say that those things you brought up are the "right way" to do something though.

Also, I think you need to brush up on your contactless payment history book if you think all those things were implemented first in Apple Pay.

 

 

For example Google Wallet was not tied to carriers. What happened was that carriers blocked the app from running on their phones, in an attempt to kill Wallet in favor of their own system called Isis. They couldn't pull that shit with Apple though, not because Apple are super innovative but because if Apple's fans discovered that let's say Verizon were blocking Apple pay in order to push their own service, they would not be pleased. Carriers can't control Apple like they can with Android. It's the same with updates.

 

 

The "universal NFC terminal standard" existed before Apple Pay. EMVCo created the specs based on the ISO standards for smartcards. Then different credit card makers implemented the standard in their own ways. For example ExpressPay from American Express (released 2005), Paypass from MasterCard (released in 2003) and payWave from Visa (released in 2007).

Don't give Apple credit for some that was developed by another entity long before Apple even released their first smartphone.

 

 

 

34 minutes ago, Commodus said:

I certainly don't buy the claim that innovation stopped at Apple the microsecond Jobs died. 

I personally feel like Apple has improved a lot since Jobs died. In fact, I think the entire industry seems to have benefited from him passing away. There are certainly a lot less lawsuits flying around.

[Randogg]

5 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I personally feel like Apple has improved a lot since Jobs died. In fact, I think the entire industry seems to have benefited from him passing away. There are certainly a lot less lawsuits flying around.

Respectfully I disagree with you with regards to improvement since Jobs died. The second generation Mac Pro has been left to languish for 4 and a half years now. I can't imagine that Jobs would have allowed that. The company seems to have lost focus since his passing.

 

Apple typically isn't bleeding edge with regards to components, but they were never this far behind when Jobs was at the helm.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Randogg
Add conclusion sentence

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, Randogg said:

Respectfully I disagree with you with regards to improvement since Jobs died. The second generation Mac Pro has been left to languish for 4 and a half years now. I can't imagine that Jobs would have allowed that. The company seems to have lost focus since his passing.

I wouldn't say they lost focus but rather the interest of consumers has shifted and there is a much larger priority put on the average user -- who is significantly more likely to buy an iPhone, iPad, Apple watch, or MacBook (any).

 

It's also possible Apple had hoped hardware would improve enough to allow for an upgraded Mac Pro as the biggest reason there was no updates to it is because they couldn't fit anything more powerful into it due to temperature constraints. Eventually they had to give up on the idea of that form factor and design something new (which is supposed to be released within the year).

[jagdtigger]

This topic is getting really boring...

[Randogg]

5 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

It's also possible Apple had hoped hardware would improve enough to allow for an upgraded Mac Pro as the biggest reason there was no updates to it is because they couldn't fit anything more powerful into it due to temperature constraints. Eventually they had to give up on the idea of that form factor and design something new (which is supposed to be released within the year).

I hope so. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed in the iMac Pro. Not that I would actually buy one, but I would have thought they would have allowed for some upgrades on a machine marketed to professionals. That and the cooling system is not as good as I would have liked to have seen.

I'm hoping that they make something that has some sort of new idea that will push the industry a bit.

 

[ZcanKal]

Alright, time to grab the popcorn bowl, I've got some binge-reading to do.

[RedRound2]

11 hours ago, AngryBeaver said:

Biometrics, high res displays, build quality, voice assistants, and smartwatches were already around before apple made one or an item using it which gave the technology more traction (because it's on an APPLE!) Even now these technologies are being better implemented with the android manufacturers. The Samsung Oled on the original S1 was a huge game changer, but you don't see them running around like apple talking about how innovative they are. 

How is samsung not taking credit for OLED. Everybody knows they're the only one who produces it. Apple doesn't really boast about anything all that much if you actually notice. They're definitely not the ones who have billboards saying the 'world's first smartphone to have so and so". They get credit because they implement stuff that actually works

Quote

Build quality is one that really is funny to me. I can drop an Iphone from about ear level and it will break 1/4 of the time. I can pick up a old nokia flip phone and drop it out of a plane, run it over with a tank, and that damn thing will still work. Those were the toughest phones known to man I swear.

Sorry to break your bubble but build quality and durability are two very different things. 

And if you're really going to compare a feature phone with the smartphone, former of which has a light plastic build virtually no screen to break then you're ignorant as you seem to be. It's two very different things. You weren't able to name any other smartphone coz literally all of them have the same problem unless they were specialized for it.

Quote

Smart watches- The first smart watch was unveiled in 1998 from a man named Steve Mann. It ran a version of linux. Then in 1999 samsung made the first watch phone with an lcd screen. In 2000 IBM had their own version of the linux watch.

My god, the ignorance is overwhelming. I never said they invented anything. They perfected it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Apple Watch is the only good smartwatch available today. Android Wear is pretty much dead in the water while Samsung is still selling a smartwatch they unveiled two years ago. 

Second, ideas of smartwatch was always there way before. All it basically is a computer small enough to be strapped on the wrist. The only difference here is Apple was the only one who was able to do it properly and elegantly. That's innovation.

Quote

Biometrics, there were several little gimmicky phones that ran their own version of them before the apple version (which was just as gimmicky)

no, there were shitty fingerprint scanners that required swipe and Motorola had one before which was an epic fail. Apple's version was far superior, much difficult to trick and much faster and if you call that gimmick then you truly are a die hard hater. You can thank Apple for having fingerprint on whatever phone you use today.

Quote

The Virtual assistant for smart phones was first released by IBM it was known as SIMON.

Again, same as smartwatch. Even I could make a very basic voice assistant before 2011, but I don't take credit for it because it sucked. Apple did it reasonably well and it worked for takss like reading messages and setting alarms. Others like Google and amazon are leading right now, but as pointed by numerous reports, siri sucks because of Apple's very strong privacy protection, both of which is a nothing to the other two.

Quote

When it comes to first high res display apple was also not the first here either. There were phones from LG, blackberry, and others that already did that. The iphone was just one of the first widely adapted ones.

320+ ppi was done where pixels become indistinguishable at normal distance was done by Apple I believe and marketed appropriately by them. That's what started the arms race into the highest res screen which thankfully has stagnated at 1440p

 

11 hours ago, LAwLz said:

No I didn't. If you go back and reread my post you will see that I did not once use the word "success" or "successful".

Stop with the strawman arguments.

 

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The Apple fan responds with "they were the first to do it right", which is an entirely subjective statement.

He was clearly talking about Apple Pay, which they did it right, hence being successful which is not a subjective statement.

AR Kit hasn't made any traction yet and if I say that it is successful, then it's a subjective statement (which is an opinion)