Thoughts on buying mined hardware vs gamed

[The Blackhat]

Figured I’d ask opinions, how do you feel about buying hardware that has been mined on, vs gamed on?

Edit: I AM NOT ASKING WETHER I SHOULD BUY MINED HARDWARE, merely asking opinions

[Oshino Shinobu]

Would rather buy one that's been gamed on. If someone has mined with it, then it's likely been sitting at 100% load for hours, days, weeks etc. on end, while one that's been gamed on would have had a lighter load that isn't 24/7 and likely in better conditions if we assume the mining card was in a system with multiple GPUs. 

[Ryujin2003]

Works with GPU. I don't trust anyone with used, so I don't go that route unless it's free. Otherwise, is have to suggest gaming. Mining would be at 100% 24/7, with who knows what kind of thermals... I might trust used gaming more.

 

[The Blackhat]

10 minutes ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

Would rather buy one that's been gamed on. If someone has mined with it, then it's likely been sitting at 100% load for hours, days, weeks etc. on end, while one that's been gamed on would have had a lighter load that isn't 24/7 and likely in better conditions if we assume the mining card was in a system with multiple GPUs. 

Personally, I’ve never had an issue buying mined hardware, often times they are good deals, and yes, there are bad apples who don’t maintain their cards, luckily that’s not the majority

[aisle9]

4 minutes ago, Ryujin2003 said:

Works with GPU. I don't trust anyone with used, so I don't go that route unless it's free. Otherwise, is have to suggest gaming. Mining would be at 100% 24/7, with who knows what kind of thermals... I might trust used gaming more.

Not necessarily true. Mining is as much about balancing energy costs and prolonging the life of hardware as it is actually mining coins. Example:

 

If I leave my card at 100% power, power limit maxed, voltage cranked to 11, sure I'm mining at the peak potential for that card--but I'm also drawing enough electricity to light up Detroit for a week. If I leave my card at stock voltage, dial in a stable OC, then set it to a power limit of 70, sure, I'm mining 20% less coin, but I'm spending 30% less on electricity, so I actually come out ahead. People who've actually researched mining before attempting it will also tell you that you should put a temperature limit of somewhere between 65-68 on your card. Above 70C for extended periods of time and you start risking component failures, anything under 60C and you're not working hard enough. A big part of the economics of mining is reselling cards down the line, and if your card dies from nuking it with four million volts and temperatures in line with the surface of the sun, that's hard to do.

 

I would more or less trust a GPU from someone selling it out of a mining rig, assuming I was confident they were being honest with me about how long it had been in use, the temperatures it was operating at, the fan speeds it was maintaining and whether or not any voltage manipulation was done. Someone who tells you that the card is from a mining rig is going to know all that, and they're probably going to be honest about it. The real risk is from gamers who "experiment" with mining in their main rig when they're not gaming on it. For one, that rig almost certainly does not have enough airflow to support mining. Two, because they didn't research it at all, they probably did just max out the voltage, set the highest overclock they could and Leeroy it. Three, they are going to lie to you.

 

Easy way to weed those people out? Ask questions. What games did they play with it? What resolution and detail settings? What kind of FPS did they get? Do they know the Firestrike score? Everyone's going to lie if you ask about overclocking, so don't even bother. They probably can't answer all of your questions, but if someone selling a high-end card can't at least name the games they played with it, the resolution they played at and the FPS they typically pulled down on at least one of those games, walk away. Likewise, if the questions are in writing and the answers they give are pulled from Tom's Hardware, walk away. Those are the people trying to push off a burnt-out card on you.

[The Blackhat]

4 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Not necessarily true. Mining is as much about balancing energy costs and prolonging the life of hardware as it is actually mining coins. Example:

 

If I leave my card at 100% power, power limit maxed, voltage cranked to 11, sure I'm mining at the peak potential for that card--but I'm also drawing enough electricity to light up Detroit for a week. If I leave my card at stock voltage, dial in a stable OC, then set it to a power limit of 70, sure, I'm mining 20% less coin, but I'm spending 30% less on electricity, so I actually come out ahead. People who've actually researched mining before attempting it will also tell you that you should put a temperature limit of somewhere between 65-68 on your card. Above 70C for extended periods of time and you start risking component failures, anything under 60C and you're not working hard enough. A big part of the economics of mining is reselling cards down the line, and if your card dies from nuking it with four million volts and temperatures in line with the surface of the sun, that's hard to do.

 

I would more or less trust a GPU from someone selling it out of a mining rig, assuming I was confident they were being honest with me about how long it had been in use, the temperatures it was operating at, the fan speeds it was maintaining and whether or not any voltage manipulation was done. Someone who tells you that the card is from a mining rig is going to know all that, and they're probably going to be honest about it. The real risk is from gamers who "experiment" with mining in their main rig when they're not gaming on it. For one, that rig almost certainly does not have enough airflow to support mining. Two, because they didn't research it at all, they probably did just max out the voltage, set the highest overclock they could and Leeroy it. Three, they are going to lie to you.

 

Easy way to weed those people out? Ask questions. What games did they play with it? What resolution and detail settings? What kind of FPS did they get? Do they know the Firestrike score? Everyone's going to lie if you ask about overclocking, so don't even bother. They probably can't answer all of your questions, but if someone selling a high-end card can't at least name the games they played with it, the resolution they played at and the FPS they typically pulled down on at least one of those games, walk away. Likewise, if the questions are in writing and the answers they give are pulled from Tom's Hardware, walk away. Those are the people trying to push off a burnt-out card on you.

All very good points, this is the info I’ve personally always gone off of when buying hardware, in my opinion many people misunderstand just what miners do with their cards

[Misanthrope]

Right now? Forget it. It would be a scam to get something that might have even a tiny bit less lifetime left on it paying higher than MSRP prices.

 

If (notice I didn't say when) coins crash or if ASIC completely obsoletes GPU mining for decent profits (Again this is "if" since it might never happen) then....well it's really not ideal but you'll be able to really low ball miners at that point and get something like a 1060 for 100 bucks.

 

At that price yes even if I need to buy 2 per year it's still worth it.

[Ryujin2003]

25 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

SNIP

Great points. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Buying a card from someone who overclock's improperly is probably worse that purchasing a card that has been undervolted and run 24/7 in a mining machine.....

 

I guess not every miner is the devil.

[The Blackhat]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Right now? Forget it. It would be a scam to get something that might have even a tiny bit less lifetime left on it paying higher than MSRP prices.

 

If (notice I didn't say when) coins crash or if ASIC completely obsoletes GPU mining for decent profits then....well it's really not ideal but you'll be able to really low ball miners at that point and get something like a 1060 for 100 bucks.

 

At that price yes even if I need to buy 2 per year it's still worth it.

Not a bad take om it, I wasn’t asking because I’m buying hardware soon, I was just wondering other peoples’ opinions

[aisle9]

18 minutes ago, The Blackhat said:

All very good points, this is the info I’ve personally always gone off of when buying hardware, in my opinion many people misunderstand just what miners do with their cards

Very much so. I mined the living crap out of my GTX 1070 and my 6GB GTX 1060 for about three solid months, until prices of Zcash dropped to where it just didn't make sense to continue. The cards sat at 100% load in a HAF 932 case with the side panel removed, only going offline once when I shut down the computer for about 3 minutes to pull some RAM. The 1070 ran at 66-68C with the fan at 70%. The 1060 ran at 59-60C with the fan at 45% (seriously, I could not get that thing to break 60). Today, the 1060 is back in an HTPC where it pushes 4K video and occasionally plays a game or two, and the 1070 is back in my main rig. No problems with either, and after running full speed for three months, they both still achieve stable 24/7 overclocks at their pre-mining levels.

 

It's not that you mine, it's how you mine.

[The Blackhat]

Just now, aisle9 said:

Very much so. I mined the living crap out of my GTX 1070 and my 6GB GTX 1060 for about three solid months, until prices of Zcash dropped to where it just didn't make sense to continue. The cards sat at 100% load in a HAF 932 case with the side panel removed, only going offline once when I shut down the computer for about 3 minutes to pull some RAM. The 1070 ran at 66-68C with the fan at 70%. The 1060 ran at 59-60C with the fan at 45% (seriously, I could not get that thing to break 60). Today, the 1060 is back in an HTPC where it pushes 4K video and occasionally plays a game or two, and the 1070 is back in my main rig. No problems with either, and after running full speed for three months, they both still achieve stable 24/7 overclocks at their pre-mining levels.

 

It's not that you mine, it's how you mine.

True, it’s fun when someone brings up ‘performance degredation’ as an argument, because it’s so easy to shut down

[aisle9]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

If (notice I didn't say when) coins crash or if ASIC completely obsoletes GPU mining for decent profits (Again this is "if" since it might never happen) then....well it's really not ideal but you'll be able to really low ball miners at that point and get something like a 1060 for 100 bucks.

Bitmain has developed an Ethereum ASIC and is testing it as we speak. Once that hits, AMD cards will be all over eBay at normal used card prices, maybe a little lower, but don't expect to get a working 580 for $100.

[Misanthrope]

Just now, aisle9 said:

Bitmain has developed an Ethereum ASIC and is testing it as we speak. Once that hits, AMD cards will be all over eBay at normal used card prices, maybe a little lower, but don't expect to get a working 580 for $100.

I read that monero was going to do something to block it from working. I know, different coins but if GPU mining monero it's still viable you'll see monero gain up accordingly and gpu availability would not move as much.

 

I might be talking out of my butt however I really don't know if monero can even assure that or whatnot just something I read.

[aisle9]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

I read that monero was going to do something to block it from working. I know, different coins but if GPU mining monero it's still viable you'll see monero gain up accordingly and gpu availability would not move as much.

 

I might be talking out of my butt however I really don't know if monero can even assure that or whatnot just something I read.

Lots of currencies are designed to be "ASIC resistant". Thing is, when the price of those currencies climbs high enough, Bitmain is going to figure out an algorithm that works. That's as true for Monero as it is for Ethereum.

 

Truth is, if you're a gamer, ASICs are your best friend. Every time one drops for the hot currency of the moment, an angel gets its wings, and you get a shot at an MSRP GPU.

[Enderman]

If you want top pay hundreds of dollars for something that might die in a few months or years, that's your choice to make with your money.

I would never buy mining hardware. Even used hardware is already risky.

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Lots of currencies are designed to be "ASIC resistant". Thing is, when the price of those currencies climbs high enough, Bitmain is going to figure out an algorithm that works. That's as true for Monero as it is for Ethereum.

 

Truth is, if you're a gamer, ASICs are your best friend. Every time one drops for the hot currency of the moment, an angel gets its wings, and you get a shot at an MSRP GPU.

Well yes it does sounds like something the Monero people could try to claim to stave off panic for as long as they can.

 

Also gamers aside, given the efficiency the environment it's helped by ASICs too.

[aisle9]

1 minute ago, Misanthrope said:

Well yes it does sounds like something the Monero people could try to claim to stave off panic for as long as they can.

 

Also gamers aside, given the efficiency the environment it's helped by ASICs too.

Clearly, you have never found yourself in a small closet with four ASICs running in it.

 

I didn't actually see Hell, but that's just because turning on the light would trip the breaker and kill all the ASICs.

[The Blackhat]

2 minutes ago, aisle9 said:

Clearly, you have never found yourself in a small closet with four ASICs running in it.

 

I didn't actually see Hell, but that's just because turning on the light would trip the breaker and kill all the ASICs.

4 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Well yes it does sounds like something the Monero people could try to claim to stave off panic for as long as they can.

 

Also gamers aside, given the efficiency the environment it's helped by ASICs too.

Not sure the environment is exactly going to be helped much if everyone stopped mining with cards and used asics

edit: I’m an idiot and messed up the quotes

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

Clearly, you have never found yourself in a small closet with four ASICs running in it.

 

I didn't actually see Hell, but that's just because turning on the light would trip the breaker and kill all the ASICs.

I mean this shit is not good overall but how many GPUs at what voltage would take to match a closet of ASIC units?

 

I think it's orders of magnitude higher power consumption.

[aisle9]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

I mean this shit is not good overall but how many GPUs at what voltage would take to match a closet of ASIC units?

 

I think it's orders of magnitude higher power consumption.

I suppose it would depend on the currency. Either way, yes, a single ASIC can do the job of many GPUs with less energy consumption. Otherwise they'd never sell at near the prices Bitmain gets for them.

 

But that closet was really fucking hot.

[Misanthrope]

1 minute ago, aisle9 said:

I suppose it would depend on the currency. Either way, yes, a single ASIC can do the job of many GPUs with less energy consumption. Otherwise they'd never sell at near the prices Bitmain gets for them.

 

But that closet was really fucking hot.

That's why so many people come out of said closets nowadays

 

Spoiler

 

[JustTheTips]

I Would Do Gaming Because It Has Not Been Used 24/7

[Cole5]

I'de never give miners more money that they wont claim on taxes, so Gamine 100%

[TetraSky]

Would obviously prefer a card used for gaming like most others here.
That said, there isn't really any way of knowing if a card was mined on or gamed on, other than taking the words of the seller. Unless said seller is dumb enough to sell a lot of GPUs at the same time while claiming they were used for gaming... in which case you can tell BS.

A smart mined GPU seller that want to "scam" people this way would sell one, maybe two GPUs at the same time with maybe a week in between each new posting and take different pictures of each cards, or just don't sell them all in the same place.

[Lockram]

I wouldn't mind buying used hardware, as long as I know it's still covered by a warranty. 

 

I've seen plenty of cards that have been used for a couple months, and then for whatever reason it ends up on eBay. If it still got 12+ months warranty I wouldn't decline a good deal.