Car Enthusiast Club [Now Motorcycle friendly!] - First thread to 150k! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[bcredeur97]

6 minutes ago, terrytek said:

honestly. i mean, the gtr's awd system doesn't seem to have many issues with understeer, hell i think you can drift one pretty easily, and then there's audis, where performance drivers say they feel tons of understeer from the system.

dad's A6 (quattro) understeers quite a bit. Not sure about other audi's but a C7 A6 quattro does. I'm sure there is ways to remedy it, at least a bit. Dad won't care though, it's just a comfortable commuter for him lol

 

[bcredeur97]

1 minute ago, Cazual-T said:

Thats the Note 7 man!

oh. True. I get lost sometimes. Haven't been keeping up with tech like I used to.

[bcredeur97]

4 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Like crack, isn't it? Wait till you put an aftermarket intake and external BOV on it... So soothing.

wait till the one day I have a real job and the miata gets boosted and made track-ready.  

[GuNjAX_3030]

3 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

oh. True. I get lost sometimes. Haven't been keeping up with tech like I used to.

Ya man there was a dude on the news couple weeks ago, and he had left his Note 7 charging in the car while he went to go purchase vagisil for his sisters brother that had sex change. And by the time he came back....Flames..Semi true story, look it up. Fox11 news.

[bcredeur97]

1 minute ago, Cazual-T said:

Ya man there was a dude on the news couple weeks ago, and he had left his Note 7 charging in the car while he went to go purchase vagisil for his sisters brother that had sex change. And by the time he came back....Flames..Semi true story, look it up. Fox11 news.

I heard about that! Well I heard about someone leaving it in a car and then the car being burnt down when he got back. Just got the gist of it from twitter. 

 

I spend most of my time in the car thread. look at my forum join date and yet look at my post count lol...

[RevoltTrain]

Crazy to hear how they fucked the Note 7 up so badly after doing such a good job with the s7 in the spring. I love my S7 to no end. Swear by it 

[bcredeur97]

Nissan needs to make a small displacement, lightweight Z car again... 

[bcredeur97]

Just now, vinyldash303 said:

But v6...

it can still be a V6. just smaller. Because I like small engines with lots of cylinders anyway...

[RevoltTrain]

Just now, vinyldash303 said:

But v6...

They could make a fairly light v6 with current technology 

[bcredeur97]

Just now, RevoltTrain said:

They could make a fairly light v6 with current technology 

mazda made a 1.8L V6 a while back. If they did it, Nissan could do it better!

[terrytek]

10 minutes ago, Cazual-T said:

Ya man there was a dude on the news couple weeks ago, and he had left his Note 7 charging in the car while he went to go purchase vagisil for his sisters brother that had sex change. And by the time he came back....Flames..Semi true story, look it up. Fox11 news.

fox news. ugh, i just shudder when i hear that.

 

21 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

dad's A6 (quattro) understeers quite a bit. Not sure about other audi's but a C7 A6 quattro does. I'm sure there is ways to remedy it, at least a bit. Dad won't care though, it's just a comfortable commuter for him lol

 

i mean, of course, an a6 isn't meant for spirited driving. if you drive something like an rs4 or a tt rs, you're more likely gonna complain about the understeer.

 

6 minutes ago, RevoltTrain said:

Crazy to hear how they fucked the Note 7 up so badly after doing such a good job with the s7 in the spring. I love my S7 to no end. Swear by it 

seriously, and i was almost considering one, because it looked like an amazing phone at the time. i mean the galaxy s6/s7 were the phones that turned me on to samsung after they turned me off since the s3 with its cheap looks. but shame samsung now has to deal with this major battery issue.

 

2 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

mazda made a 1.8L V6 a while back. If they did it, Nissan could do it better!

i bet that engine had NO low end torque whatsoever. like a v6 that small wouldn't have the low end grunt to provide any noticeable acceleration.

 

4 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

it can still be a V6. just smaller. Because I like small engines with lots of cylinders anyway...

2.5 v6? i mean, that's probably the smallest industry size v6 you can get (anything smaller is because it only sold for a few years on certain cars, i mean like what size v6 you can across different brands). i know because i have a minivan with a 2.5 v6 and it does feel small compared to its rivals.

[bcredeur97]

what would make more torque, all things theoretically equal:

 

a 1.8L V6 or a 1.8L I-4? 

[terrytek]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

what would make more torque, all things theoretically equal:

 

a 1.8L V6 or a 1.8L I-4? 

honestly the inline 4, because you probably have more bore across all cylinders.

[terrytek]

honestly i don't think it will ever be the same http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/entertainment/news/a30851/paul-walkers-character-could-return-in-future-furious-movies/

[bcredeur97]

3 minutes ago, terrytek said:

honestly the inline 4, because you probably have more bore across all cylinders.

Is the bore size what makes torque though? 

[Speedyv]

@RevoltTrain Sick wagon mate

[terrytek]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

Is the bore size what makes torque though? 

well technically yes, because it has a larger surface area to distribute force across the piston, and usually provides more torque and power across that increased surface area.

[FuzzyYellow]

7 minutes ago, bcredeur97 said:

Is the bore size what makes torque though? 

 

4 minutes ago, terrytek said:

well technically yes, because it has a larger surface area to distribute force across the piston, and usually provides more torque and power across that increased surface area.

here's a good example. 2 current toyota engines. listed are maximum power from a production vehicle.

 

4GR-FE 2.5L V6: 212HP, 192lb-ft. bore 83mm, stroke 77mm. compression, 12:0:1.

 

2AR-FE 2.5L I-4: 180HP, 172lb-ft. bore 90mm, stroke, 98mm, compression, 10:4.

[bcredeur97]

Just now, FuzzyYellow said:

 

here's a good example. 2 current toyota engines. listed are maximum power from a production vehicle.

 

4GR-FE 2.5L V6: 212HP, 192lb-ft.

 

2AR-FE 2.5L I-4: 180HP, 172lb-ft.

So according to that more cylinders > bigger bores/strokes

 

well then that solves it. Nissan needs to make a 2.4L V12. Problem solved! 

[FuzzyYellow]

1 minute ago, bcredeur97 said:

So according to that more cylinders > bigger bores/strokes

 

well then that solves it. Nissan needs to make a 2.4L V12. Problem solved! 

yep. I edited the post to include bore, stroke, and compression ratio.

[bcredeur97]

2 minutes ago, FuzzyYellow said:

yep. I edited the post to include bore, stroke, and compression ratio.

That higher compression ratio of the V6 throws what I just said out of the window. 

 

If both had the same ratio then they'd honestly probably be very close to each other. Maybe only a couple HP/torque.

 

A small I-6 would probably be better than a V-6. Better balance. The V6 would take up less engine bay though

[FuzzyYellow]

Just now, bcredeur97 said:

That higher compression ratio of the V6 throws what I just said out of the window. 

 

If both had the same ratio then they'd honestly probably be very close to each other. Maybe only a couple HP/torque.

 

A small I-6 would probably be better than a V-6. Better balance. The V6 would take up less engine bay though

an even better comparison. both direct injected, both with higher compression.

 

 

2AR-FSE 2.5L I4: D4 direct injection, 176HP, 163lb-ft, 90mm bore, 98mm stroke, 13:0:1 compression.

 

4GR-FSE 2.5L V6: D4 direct injection, 212HP, 192lb-ft. bore 83mm, stroke 77mm. compression, 12:0:1.

 

[GR8-Ride]

Well, not exactly that simple, but yes, more cylinders does generally = more torque (and more parasitic drag as well).

 

The larger the bore, the greater the ability for the engine to breathe, as well as the ability to use larger valves (again, better breathing....thus more power).

 

The longer the stroke, then generally the greater the mechanical advantage for the rod pushing down on the crankshaft (in theory, more torque).

 

However, like all things when it comes to building an engine, there are tradeoffs.   A longer stroke means greater parasitic losses (ring drag) as well, and at some point in time, the combustion will reach a point where it's no longer producing significant force on the piston / rod / crankshaft.   So there is a limit to how long the stroke can (or should) be.

 

For street use, a square engine is generally the ideal, though with modern forced air systems that changes the design criteria quite a bit.

 

For a race engine, I'd probably take a bigger bore over a longer stroke any day (bigger bore + shorter stroke will likely give me a higher and broader RPM range to operate in).

 

 

Patrick

[terrytek]

Just now, GR8-Ride said:

Well, not exactly that simple, but yes, more cylinders does generally = more torque (and more parasitic drag as well).

 

The larger the bore, the greater the ability for the engine to breathe, as well as the ability to use larger valves (again, better breathing....thus more power).

 

The longer the stroke, then generally the greater the mechanical advantage for the rod pushing down on the crankshaft (in theory, more torque).

 

However, like all things when it comes to building an engine, there are tradeoffs.   A longer stroke means greater parasitic losses (ring drag) as well, and at some point in time, the combustion will reach a point where it's no longer producing significant force on the piston / rod / crankshaft.   So there is a limit to how long the stroke can (or should) be.

 

For street use, a square engine is generally the ideal, though with modern forced air systems that changes the design criteria quite a bit.

 

For a race engine, I'd probably take a bigger bore over a longer stroke any day (bigger bore + shorter stroke will likely give me a higher and broader RPM range to operate in).

 

 

Patrick

and plus don't forget that with longer strokes, it's less likely to run higher rpms, because when a very long stroke rod (say, 110mm) spins at very high speeds, like 9000rpm, in excess of 100m/s, and those stretch the conrods very highly, beyond its tolerable range, and can even shatter them, causing holes on the side of blocks and even worse damage. that's why when honda increased the displacement of the s2000 engine from 2.0l to 2.2 liters, they reduced the rpm limit from 9000 to 8200 rpm because they know the longer stroke won't allow it to rev it as high for risk of conrod destruction at high speeds.

[GR8-Ride]

Can't think of much worse damage than a hole in the side of the block, but yes, exactly true.  

 

I know a lot of guys who used to run big-block V8s (396, 427, 454) with long strokes and try to run them out to 7500 RPM (or even 6500 RPM)....and ended up blowing chunks of con-rods, crankshafts and sides of the block all over the drag strip or road course.   It's a lot of mass to move, stop and reverse in a short period (time and space).   You need really, really, really good con-rods and bearings.   Not to mention banged valves and bent push-rods because parts were just moving too fast for the rest of the engine.

 

Speaking of the S2000, I saw a few of them on the road just yesterday.   I thought most of them were toast by now....too bad Honda built it so underpowered....otherwise a great little car.

 

 

 

Patrick