Your thoughts on mining and the GPU shortage?

[Jrasero]

Whether you mine or game it is  crazy time to try to obtain a graphics card, but also a profitable time to sell your pre-owned 

 

I recently watched JayzTwoCents little rant about mining and GPU pricing

and while I watch all his videos and like the content he produces, God is he barking up the wrong tree.  For one this is a guy who has enough parts to startup his own Best Buy and regularly gets free parts from vendors, so price gauging wise and availability this guy is not effected.  Seconds he clearly comes off despising mining, which is his own personal belief but this is the dude that makes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off YouTube and his 1.3 million subscribers, so where do we draw this philosophical line on what profession is more moral?  Sorry but that sounds like a professional sports player complaining how much sports equipment costs.  Then he brings up the fact that he feels that mining may be hurting PC gaming numbers, but provides Steam statistics that contradict this.  Overall he talks about being part of the "gaming" community and how the small guys who want that $200 card now have to pay $600, yet offers no solution and makes it known he will never sell a user one of his own GPUs at cost.  What a nice guy.  A guy that has so much pull I think he could do small give a ways or at least offer the common sense recommendation that cards can be obtained near MSRP or even MSRP by just signing up for auto restocking notifications via email whether at large retailers or directly with the manufacture.  

 

As per my experience with finding cards.  Two weeks ago it was hard, like I couldn't find anything and a GTX 1080 Ti used or even when in stock was $1200+.  Stock today comes and goes daily through major sites and in places like Newegg price gauging is still very real.  I have signed up for countless auto notifications for stock and initially bought 6 cards but now have cancelled all but 1.  The reason why is, I got the card I always wanted for MSRP and unloading 5 cards isn't as easy as it sounds.  No I don't care about the "community", this is a capitalistic society and if I can make money due to supply and demand why not?  I don't think me taking a very limited stock effects the gaming community to a wide degree and people who think otherwise are just bitter they can't get cards or get them at the price they deem worthy.  The reason I have chosen to not resell is based on hassle.  Ebay which can get some of the highest resells has some of the highest fees.  Ebay fee, Paypal fee, and shipping fees and the hassle that Ebay greatly favors the buyer in terms of security but that is a whole other post.  Then there are Craigslist and local sales which have the benefit of cash payouts, but have a lower pool of buyers and I have found these people usually provide low ball offers and meeting is usually a hassle.  Also you still run the risk of some kind of scam on a local meetup and some of these people are just freaks.  

 

So where do you all stand on what is going on?  Has this stopped anyone from buying a gpu or has it pushed you to wait until Volta?

[MrDrWho13]

lol

 

Personally, I've looked at the prices over the last couple of weeks and they're pretty high above MSRP. The RX580/480 used to be around £200-£300 but they're currently £350+ which means you're losing at least £50 when you buy one. I'm just waiting for supply to rise above demand again...

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

Honest to god people sit here and say "Well this is a capitalist society, they can do what they want" but alot of the time those are the guys who already have their cards in hand because either they payed a miner to give them a card or they found one online/in store. In my area, these cards are always either out of stock or way overpriced. It's kept me from getting the cards I've always wanted. I don't really like the whole craze, and while there always the idea of "Think about all the used cards thatll flood the market!" They'll probably all be burned or broken in one way from 24/7 use. Its flat out annoying to deal with when your budgeting, and it gives people who use console a legitimate argument.

[Ganz]

Hmm I have a highly different opinion on that video than you do.  The gpu shortage caused by mining is definitely felt; just look at the forums here.  I am sure with Jay he sees the same thing.  You make it sound like a bad thing that he doesn't like seeing all the media about us the *average* user trying to find reasonable prices.  You said it's like a professional sports player complaining about equipment prices.  You're missing a key point there.  It's like saying a professional sports player is complaining that the sport they play isn't growing like they want because the cost of equipment prices.  It's not about the professional it's about the people who make up the majority. 

13 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

No I don't care about the "community", this is a capitalistic society and if I can make money due to supply and demand why not?  I don't think me taking a very limited stock effects the gaming community to a wide degree and people who think otherwise are just bitter they can't get cards or get them at the price they deem worthy. 

That makes sense why you think Jay is wrong.  Because he is caring about the community you are a part of and you don't. Sounds more like you are barking up the wrong tree instead of Jay.

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

But hey, who am I to complain about the gpu market when I'm in a position to sell my old cards? My cards went up from 140 to 250 (On r9 270x 4gb)

[Skanky Sylveon]

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For one this is a guy who has enough parts to startup his own Best Buy and regularly gets free parts from vendors, so price gauging wise and availability this guy is not effected.

He is not talking about himself, he is talking about the industry as a whole.

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Seconds he clearly comes off despising mining, which is his own personal belief but this is the dude that makes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off YouTube and his 1.3 million subscribers, so where do we draw this philosophical line on what profession is more moral?  Sorry but that sounds like a professional sports player complaining how much sports equipment costs.

Yet he gets a good amount of them for free.  Hell, he can write the purchases off of his taxes since they are a business expense.

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Then he brings up the fact that he feels that mining may be hurting PC gaming numbers, but provides Steam statistics that contradict this.  Overall he talks about being part of the "gaming" community and how the small guys who want that $200 card now have to pay $600, yet offers no solution and makes it known he will never sell a user one of his own GPUs at cost.  What a nice guy.

While he has a lot of GPUs, he doesn't have enough to even put a dent in the problem.  Do you have a solution?  I would love to hear it.

Also, how can you not see GPU prices more then doubling be a potential issue?

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No I don't care about the "community",

Charming.

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 this is a capitalistic society and if I can make money due to supply and demand why not?  I don't think me taking a very limited stock effects the gaming community to a wide degree and people who think otherwise are just bitter they can't get cards or get them at the price they deem worthy.

You are not causing a significant harm, but you are contributing to the problem.

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So where do you all stand on what is going on?  Has this stopped anyone from buying a gpu or has it pushed you to wait until Volta?

I have purchased a 1080 some time ago, so this doesn't affect me directly.

I have no issue with cryptocurrency, as long as it doesn't harm other industries.

 

To be frank, I find the whole situation kinda depressing.

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

22 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

To be frank, I find the whole situation kinda depressing.

Depressing is an understatement. cards like the r9 270x 2gb, which are usually 60 to 80 bucks, great cards, are now 110 on ebay and the 4gb cards went from 140 to 250.

 

On the bright side, 80 percent of bitcoin have been mined, so were nearly there.

 

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After 64 total halvings, there will be no more Bitcoins left to reward miners and all 21 million Bitcoins will be in circulation. This will occur sometime in 2140.

Oof

[Ithanul]

Just now, ♠FlamieMeister♠ said:

On the bright side, 80 percent of bitcoin have been mined, so were nearly there.

Miners do not use GPUs to mine bitcoin.  ASICs are used.  Mining with a GPU for that coin went out the window years ago.

Most of what the GPUs are used to mine are the alt coins which follow the value of Bitcoin.  Those are then traded over into Bitcoin or sold for currency.

[♠FlamieMeister♠]

1 minute ago, Ithanul said:

Miners do not use GPUs to mine bitcoin.  ASICs are used.  Mining with a GPU for that coin went out the window years ago.

Most of what the GPUs are used to mine are the alt coins which follow the value of Bitcoin.  Those are then traded over into Bitcoin or sold for currency.

You'd be heavily surprised how many people still mine bitcoin with gpu's

[Ithanul]

3 minutes ago, ♠FlamieMeister♠ said:

You'd be heavily surprised how many people still mine bitcoin with gpu's

Those are either individuals who started back early on and have the space and resources to support such a farm.

Most other miners mine alt coins, buy ASICs do Bitcoin mining, or rent cloud mining setups to do the mining.

 

Most which the ROI is no longer optimal for someone getting into crypto.  Far better to buy coins and flip them like stock.

[miagisan]

36 minutes ago, Jrasero said:

Whether you mine or game it is  crazy time to try to obtain a graphics card, but also a profitable time to sell your pre-owned 

 

I recently watched JayzTwoCents little rant about mining and GPU pricing

and while I watch all his videos and like the content he produces, God is he barking up the wrong tree.  For one this is a guy who has enough parts to startup his own Best Buy and regularly gets free parts from vendors, so price gauging wise and availability this guy is not effected.  Seconds he clearly comes off despising mining, which is his own personal belief but this is the dude that makes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off YouTube and his 1.3 million subscribers, so where do we draw this philosophical line on what profession is more moral?  Sorry but that sounds like a professional sports player complaining how much sports equipment costs.  Then he brings up the fact that he feels that mining may be hurting PC gaming numbers, but provides Steam statistics that contradict this.  Overall he talks about being part of the "gaming" community and how the small guys who want that $200 card now have to pay $600, yet offers no solution and makes it known he will never sell a user one of his own GPUs at cost.  What a nice guy.  A guy that has so much pull I think he could do small give a ways or at least offer the common sense recommendation that cards can be obtained near MSRP or even MSRP by just signing up for auto restocking notifications via email whether at large retailers or directly with the manufacture.  

 

As per my experience with finding cards.  Two weeks ago it was hard, like I couldn't find anything and a GTX 1080 Ti used or even when in stock was $1200+.  Stock today comes and goes daily through major sites and in places like Newegg price gauging is still very real.  I have signed up for countless auto notifications for stock and initially bought 6 cards but now have cancelled all but 1.  The reason why is, I got the card I always wanted for MSRP and unloading 5 cards isn't as easy as it sounds.  No I don't care about the "community", this is a capitalistic society and if I can make money due to supply and demand why not?  I don't think me taking a very limited stock effects the gaming community to a wide degree and people who think otherwise are just bitter they can't get cards or get them at the price they deem worthy.  The reason I have chosen to not resell is based on hassle.  Ebay which can get some of the highest resells has some of the highest fees.  Ebay fee, Paypal fee, and shipping fees and the hassle that Ebay greatly favors the buyer in terms of security but that is a whole other post.  Then there are Craigslist and local sales which have the benefit of cash payouts, but have a lower pool of buyers and I have found these people usually provide low ball offers and meeting is usually a hassle.  Also you still run the risk of some kind of scam on a local meetup and some of these people are just freaks.  

 

So where do you all stand on what is going on?  Has this stopped anyone from buying a gpu or has it pushed you to wait until Volta?

And this is why I don't like miners. It's all about me me me. You think it's going to get better with Volta or Navi? Hell no. It's going to get worse. 

 

Gpu's will get better, your hash rates will get better, and this will just continue. 

 

I don't mind mining, but there has to be a balance. 

[Devon_Pearce]

My local store that I go through is currently sold out of everything aside from a few 1050LPs a 1030 and 710. They've posted a warning on their site stating that the shortage goes right to their distributor and that shortages will continue for some time. They also stated that in no uncertain terms that they only do price guarantees on in stock items and that fairly significant price jumps are to be expected when they do start receiving stock again. Personally this doesn't affect me as I bought a 1080 in summer 2016 and shouldn't need an upgrade any time soon... for this machine at least. I feel like this is gonna make it hard to be a gamer for quite some time. If those miners could I'm pretty sure they'd mine on consoles. The console peasant conversions will have to be put on hold for quite some time.

[miagisan]

5 minutes ago, Devon_Pearce said:

My local store that I go through is currently sold out of everything aside from a few 1050LPs a 1030 and 710. They've posted a warning on their site stating that the shortage goes right to their distributor and that shortages will continue for some time. They also stated that in no uncertain terms that they only do price guarantees on in stock items and that fairly significant price jumps are to be expected when they do start receiving stock again. Personally this doesn't affect me as I bought a 1080 in summer 2016 and shouldn't need an upgrade any time soon... for this machine at least. I feel like this is gonna make it hard to be a gamer for quite some time. If those miners could I'm pretty sure they'd mine on consoles. The console peasant conversions will have to be put on hold for quite some time.

Here in NY it's horrible. I been wanting to build a computer for my son, but between the gpu and memory spikes, it's not feasible. Microcenter here has resorted to selling 7500 series gpus they probably found in a trash bin. 

 

Going to wait for raven ridge apu to see if they are any good. Might not be the gaming machine he would want, but no way in hell am I spending $1k on a mid range gaming machine. 

[Mick Naughty]

Prices are the same if you know how to use the internet. Just may have to wait a week. Stock just got 30 more cards today, could easily go get one for regular price. Just something for people to complain about I guess. 

[Devon_Pearce]

28 minutes ago, miagisan said:

Here in NY it's horrible. I been wanting to build a computer for my son, but between the gpu and memory spikes, it's not feasible. Microcenter here has resorted to selling 7500 series gpus they probably found in a trash bin. 

 

Going to wait for raven ridge apu to see if they are any good. Might not be the gaming machine he would want, but no way in hell am I spending $1k on a mid range gaming machine. 

Memory! Yes! When I first bought the laptop I'm now using for school it came with 12GB of RAM. No problem I bought another 4GB 1600MHz stick. I was looking into that now and the prices are abour 35% higher than they were with a 4GB stick at 1600MHz costing 50 canadian rupees. Of course only part of that is from the memory shortage but and the other part of that equation is the reduction in the exchange value of the CAD to USD, but most of it is the flash shortage. I was looking into upgrading the ram in this laptop and it would cost me 100 bucks a stick, and if I wanted to throw some higher clocked RAM in it jumps to 200 a stick.

[Jrasero]

22 hours ago, miagisan said:

Here in NY it's horrible. I been wanting to build a computer for my son, but between the gpu and memory spikes, it's not feasible. Microcenter here has resorted to selling 7500 series gpus they probably found in a trash bin. 

 

Going to wait for raven ridge apu to see if they are any good. Might not be the gaming machine he would want, but no way in hell am I spending $1k on a mid range gaming machine. 

I live in NY to and if you are just looking at local retailers you are probably doing it wrong.  I still think you can score a MSRP card like Mick Naughty and I have be preaching, if you just go to every website and signup for auto notifications.  I think ram is almost a worse problem since there is stock but sale prices are up 50%.  I just paid $200 for 16GB ram when it initially was priced at $100 or so.

 

22 hours ago, Cinnabar Sonar said:

He is not talking about himself, he is talking about the industry as a whole.

Yet he gets a good amount of them for free.  Hell, he can write the purchases off of his taxes since they are a business expense.

While he has a lot of GPUs, he doesn't have enough to even put a dent in the problem.  Do you have a solution?  I would love to hear it.

Also, how can you not see GPU prices more then doubling be a potential issue?

Charming.

You are not causing a significant harm, but you are contributing to the problem.

I have purchased a 1080 some time ago, so this doesn't affect me directly.

I have no issue with cryptocurrency, as long as it doesn't harm other industries.

 

To be frank, I find the whole situation kinda depressing.

The problem is that Jay constantly says he's part of the 'community" so yeah essentially he wants to be like "us" but lives in this bubble of mostly not being effected yet "caring" how a person who can't afford a $200 card feels.  The dude has every imaginable card possible.  Cry me a river dude

 

My point is Jay is blessed to have 1.3 million followers and be able to monetize off something that is mostly a hobby for most people, so my argument is why the hate for mining when this is putting food on people's tables.  It be me like saying why should this guy get free stuff and I don't? And why does he get to make videos all day and make hundreds of thousand of dollars while sit at a desk wondering when I get to retire and be on my third wife?  People are just bitter and frustrated and maybe that's okay but who cares people are just trying to make a living, let them be.

 

I am not saying he has enough inventory to help the industry, but my point is he makes his soap box of a video with no suggestions on how to get a card or any real clear train of thought.    

 

For me buying GPUs that I don't need, selling above MSRP, mining, or whatever is like not recycling.  yeah it's bad  but where do we draw the line between the difference between 1 can not recycled and person who buys sty-foam everything and throws his trash into the ocean.  I consider myself on the low side of the problem 

 

I guess my point is there is a real disconnect between him and I.  His worries are a bit overstated and IMO a bit of click bate 

[KarathKasun]

3 hours ago, Jrasero said:

The problem is that Jay constantly says he's part of the 'community" so yeah essentially he wants to be like "us" but lives in this bubble of mostly not being effected yet "caring" how a person who can't afford a $200 card feels.  The dude has every imaginable card possible.  Cry me a river dude

 

My point is Jay is blessed to have 1.3 million followers and be able to monetize off something that is mostly a hobby for most people, so my argument is why the hate for mining when this is putting food on people's tables.  It be me like saying why should this guy get free stuff and I don't? And why does he get to make videos all day and make hundreds of thousand of dollars while sit at a desk wondering when I get to retire and be on my third wife?  People are just bitter and frustrated and maybe that's okay but who cares people are just trying to make a living, let them be.

 

I am not saying he has enough inventory to help the industry, but my point is he makes his soap box of a video with no suggestions on how to get a card or any real clear train of thought.    

 

For me buying GPUs that I don't need, selling above MSRP, mining, or whatever is like not recycling.  yeah it's bad  but where do we draw the line between the difference between 1 can not recycled and person who buys sty-foam everything and throws his trash into the ocean.  I consider myself on the low side of the problem 

 

I guess my point is there is a real disconnect between him and I.  His worries are a bit overstated and IMO a bit of click bate 

Mining to put food on the table is a sign that you are incapable of working for a living wage.  You either lack skill or social ability and are expecting a segment of the PC industry to be your parents and supply you with that free money.  Don't even argue this point, you guys think "I can abuse a market bubble with a device I just plug in that generates free money" without thought to the repercussions of such behavior.

 

Most miners I have seen live in relatively cold climates too, where you can cool a rig for "free".  Try mining in south Texas, where every watt of heat produced requires two more to remove.  Your ROI suddenly moves out to 12 months or more for a decently large coin farm.

[maartendc]

23 hours ago, Jrasero said:

I recently watched JayzTwoCents little rant about mining and GPU pricin

and while I watch all his videos and like the content he produces, God is he barking up the wrong tree.  For one this is a guy who has enough parts to startup his own Best Buy and regularly gets free parts from vendors, so price gauging wise and availability this guy is not effected. 

...

Seconds he clearly comes off despising mining, which is his own personal belief but this is the dude that makes thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars off YouTube and his 1.3 million subscribers, so where do we draw this philosophical line on what profession is more moral?  

....

Then he brings up the fact that he feels that mining may be hurting PC gaming numbers, but provides Steam statistics that contradict this.  Overall he talks about being part of the "gaming" community and how the small guys who want that $200 card now have to pay $600, yet offers no solution and makes it known he will never sell a user one of his own GPUs at cost. 

1. So what if he is not affected himself? I am not affected by hunger in Africa. Doesn't mean I think it is wrong and lament it.

 

2. Yes he despises mining, that is his opinion. He is entitled to have an opinion, based on the fact that it is hurting PC gaming, and has been for a long time now (over a year). His profession of being a Youtuber isn't affecting anybody, and what does that have to do with anything?

 

3. Offers no solution, what kind of solution do you expect from him? Asus, MSI, etc. can't even solve it, how do you expect one guy with a camera to solve it? You can't. Nobody can solve it. The only solution is Cryptocurrencies crash or the difficulty rises such that GPU mining isnt profitable anymore. If he were to give away all of his cards, what would that solve? Nothing. He has maybe 30-40 GPU's total. The market for GPU's in 2016 was a total of 13 million units https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/240208-gpu-sales-surged-2016-strong-demand-high-end-desktop-laptop-gaming, so Jayz cards are 0.00000307 % of that. Good luck.

 

And for the record, I think cryptocurrencies are totally stupid and wasteful. Check out this article: https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/ae3p7e/bitcoin-is-unsustainable

 

Bitcoin uses more electricity annually than the annual power consumption of 159 countries, and counting! https://powercompare.co.uk/bitcoin/

I find this totally immoral..

 

So yeah, I am totally with Jay on this one, and I don't know why his opinion bothers you so much. I see absolutely nothing wrong with his video.

 

21 hours ago, Jrasero said:

The problem is that Jay constantly says he's part of the 'community" so yeah essentially he wants to be like "us" but lives in this bubble of mostly not being effected yet "caring" how a person who can't afford a $200 card feels.  The dude has every imaginable card possible.  Cry me a river dude

Jay is a gamer, therefore he is part of the community. Not too long ago, he was probably someone who had to save up to buy a good PC just like everybody else. He has not been making a living doing this for very long yet (2-3 years since he quit his day job I think). I dont know why that is hard to understand?

 

 

[Dabombinable]

Well it was good for my friend. Due to increasing power prices in Australia (odd because the power grid in our state at least is run well under capacity) he was able to pick up a barely used (even for normal use) Gigabyte Aorus RX580 8GB that was used for mining etherium for a month. Lets just say that it may run a lot hotter than my GTX 970, but damn does it run games well on his 4K TV (though it defaults to 1080p 60Hz over HDMI).

[Majinhoju]

I watched the video and Jay seemed pretty sincere about this thoughts on mining given that he is a member of the PC gaming community.  Not sure why his luck being a successful youtuber means he no longer gets an opinion on the matter.

[Skanky Sylveon]

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The problem is that Jay constantly says he's part of the 'community" so yeah essentially he wants to be like "us" but lives in this bubble of mostly not being effected yet "caring" how a person who can't afford a $200 card feels.  The dude has every imaginable card possible.  Cry me a river dude

That doesn't mean that he can't empathize.

He wasn't born into his position, and I am sure that he can understand how those less fortunate feel about the situation.

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My point is Jay is blessed to have 1.3 million followers and be able to monetize off something that is mostly a hobby for most people, so my argument is why the hate for mining when this is putting food on people's tables.

Jay isn't harming other industries, mining is.

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It be me like saying why should this guy get free stuff and I don't?

Jay isn't getting anything for free.  Being a YouTuber is surprisingly hard.

He is performing a service that people are willing to pay for, that is a job.

Is he fortunate to have a job that he loves?  Yes, but it's still a job.

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And why does he get to make videos all day and make hundreds of thousand of dollars while sit at a desk wondering when I get to retire and be on my third wife?

You are starting to sound like you are very jealous of Jay.

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People are just bitter and frustrated and maybe that's okay but who cares people are just trying to make a living, let them be.

Because their means of making a living is actively harming other people's hobby's.

Also, do you really think that someone who can afford the initial cost required to mine doesn't have a job already?

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I am not saying he has enough inventory to help the industry, but my point is he makes his soap box of a video with no suggestions on how to get a card or any real clear train of thought.    

He probably doesn't have any suggestions to give.

What about you?  Do you have any?  I sure as hell don't.

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For me buying GPUs that I don't need, selling above MSRP, mining, or whatever is like not recycling.  yeah it's bad  but where do we draw the line between the difference between 1 can not recycled and person who buys sty-foam everything and throws his trash into the ocean.  I consider myself on the low side of the problem 

I already said that you are not causing much in the way of harm.

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I guess my point is there is a real disconnect between him and I.  His worries are a bit overstated and IMO a bit of click bate 

I disagree.

Like him, I care about the PC gaming community, I care about those that I play with online.  I care about the friends that I have met here

I have made many friends online that simply share this one interest, and I can understand the sting that this whole mess is causing.

 

I share similar concerns with him.  Since you have stated that you "don't care about the community" your perspective is clearly different from mine.

[Jumper118]

money > gaming. with more money you can afford expensive gpus and more games.......... 

[Mick Naughty]

Just seems like a waste no to do it. Got cards here collecting dust. Might as well make money with such useless stuff. 

[Colty]

I think it's a little blown out of proportion. You can find MSRP cards (just watch /r/buildapcsales) and you can find GTX 980Ti's for $300-350 on craigslist and $400 on ebay. That performs about as well as the 1070. And is still super profitable for mining. I picked one up just a week ago and it's been great for miming and gaming. I've also found GTX 1060 3GB cards for cheap, which you can still mine with if you want to put a bit of money in your pocket. Even the drastically underrated GTX 950 and GTX 960 can be found for a good deal. I grabbed a 950 for $60 just for mining and resale. That card makes a dollar a day, two months later and it's a free card that does great for 1080p 60Hz. I think that 10 series cards are greatly hurt by this, but if you just look at 900 series, there are a lot available if you're just gaming. 

 

I honestly find it silly that miners don't try to pickup 900 series cards on the cheap. I know the 900 series cards have still gone up in price since the mining craze, but not as drastically and they're still very profitable. 

[Mick Naughty]

Some do. Some prefer not to waste time and money on then.