Let's talk about the headphone jack for a minute

[D13H4RD]

Ah, the headphone jack, the slow death of which in consumer devices has generated a lot of discussion and debate.

 

If you know me, you'd know that I am currently in the camp of "I don't like this" until a proper replacement standard has been certified and put into use (Bluetooth, while improved, still isn't there yet and while USB-C had potential, there's one thing which hampers it which I'll explain later).

 

I've seen a lot of reasons why some people don't like having no headphone jack, ranging from being unable to change while plugging in headphones without a splitter to the risk of losing the included dongle amongst other things. While many of which are quite valid reasons, there's another problem. USB-C audio isn't quite universal.

 

To quote myself on a YouTube video;

Quote

You know it's a problem when the dongle the Moto Z ships with DOES NOT WORK AT ALL with the Galaxy Note8 and your laptop.

 

I cannot for the life of me understand why some people are championing this move. It's one thing to not care about it but it's another to say that I'm "whining" when I'm pointing out that this is a downgrade.

 

Seriously, you wanna kill the jack, go right ahead. But PLEASE for the love of Tech Sifu, implement a PROPER UNIVERSAL standard that EVERYONE can use instead of making some proprietary crap on a universal connector that doesn't even give a hint of whether it would work and in the worst cases, actually deceive consumers given the same port type.

The problem is that in its current state, USB-C audio has a dizzying array of different standards which utilize the same port. The U11's included earbuds won't work on most other USB-C devices that aren't HTC phones while the Motorola dongle along with some others don't work with other USB-C phones and even laptops.

 

I'm not going to mention Apple because while they also use a proprietary standard (Lightning), at least if you buy Lightning accessories from a good named manufacturer, it is almost guaranteed to work. With USB-C, it's just a fragmented mess of different standards utilizing the same port.

 

That's why I was very happy to hear that although Google killed the headphone jack on the Pixel 2s, they have used a proper universal standard that properly works on other USB-C phones and even laptops. This is what it should be. Not a crapton of proprietary standards on a universal connector that we have no idea whether it works on other devices until we plug it in.

 

Just to clarify, I'm not "hating change". I just dislike change when there's no real reason to and when it is actually a downgrade in some ways. I recently purchased wireless headphones anyhow.

[Abzilla]

i have not read this whole bible but whatever you say, i agree

 

[D13H4RD]

Just now, Abzilla said:

i have not read this whole bible but whatever you say, i agree

 

Hehe, I tend to blabber on, so here's a TL;DR version

 

Stop using proprietary crap on universal connectors and then we're okay.

[Guest]

There's a great reason for it, gotta make that phone .00001 mm thinner

[ashypanda]

what we need is for all devices to adopt USB audio class 3.0, that way it doesn't matter which dongle you use, and it should work, but we also need earphones and headphones to come with cables which have a type-c plug on the end, so we won't need the dongles, also i'd be more behind it if there was a wider array of cheaper small USB DACs so you can easily pick and choose the sound signature you prefer.

[Oshino Shinobu]

I feel like manufacturers are just removing the headphone jack because Apple did it. Apple gains money from doing it by selling more dongles and getting a cut whenever someone makes a device using the lightning connector. For other brands... I don't see why they're doing it. You just have to look at the S8 to see that it really doesn't make the phone any fatter or make it impossible to get higher IP ratings. 

 

As far as I can see, it's just manufacturers trying to jump on what they think may be the next big thing because Apple did it and no one is actually coming up with a suitable replacement. 

[ashypanda]

1 minute ago, Oshino Shinobu said:

I feel like manufacturers are just removing the headphone jack because Apple did it. Apple gains money from doing it by selling more dongles and getting a cut whenever someone makes a device using the lightning connector. For other brands... I don't see why they're doing it. You just have to look at the S8 to see that it really doesn't make the phone any fatter or make it impossible to get higher IP ratings. 

 

As far as I can see, it's just manufacturers trying to jump on what they think may be the next big thing because Apple did it and no one is actually coming up with a suitable replacement. 

it's the same with sony all their devices have 3.5mm jacks, and most have IP68 ratings, granted they have chunky bezels, but like the XZ premium, it's the same size as the iphone 7+/8+ and still manages to fit the 3.5mm jack.

[D13H4RD]

10 minutes ago, ashypanda said:

what we need is for all devices to adopt USB audio class 3.0, that way it doesn't matter which dongle you use, and it should work, but we also need earphones and headphones to come with cables which have a type-c plug on the end, so we won't need the dongles, also i'd be more behind it if there was a wider array of cheaper small USB DACs so you can easily pick and choose the sound signature you prefer.

I wouldn't be opposed to this at all, actually.

[Sauron]

I agree, and right now there is absolutely no reason to get rid of the jack. Headphones are inherently analog in nature, so a DAC is required somewhere regardless (besides, phones need one for their built in speakers anyway). Yes, the cable may not be quite as reliable as a digital one, but since 99% of headphones come with a jack and not with usb-c you'll just end up using a dongle and increasing the points of failure instead of decreasing them. The change must start with the headphone industry - all it takes is starting to make headphones with detachable cables that can use both usb-c and the jack. Eventually people are going to start using usb more and THEN removing the jack from phones will make sense. Right now they're only doing it because it's "hip".

[Tech_Dreamer]

33 minutes ago, Abyss Gaming said:

There's a great reason for it, gotta make that phone .00001 mm thinner

Also known as "hey , we can't just say another thing we said last time, won't look good for presentation & marketing gimmick , it doesn't better out things , but shit we need something as "new" for the same phone with minor changes to dig out profits"
 

[Sam.]

I mean, it gets a bit stupid when NOBODY was actually prepared for the change.

Apple started it, then HTC and loads more phone companies want the "wireless" future we don't yet need.

 

Sam for president. 

[Unimportant]

1 hour ago, Abyss Gaming said:

There's a great reason for it, gotta make that phone .00001 mm thinner

Indeed, I can't help but believe this insane strive for ever thinner devices will someday be a chapter in a updated version of "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds".

 

If they remove the battery and LCD they can make it thinner still ? Just buy a USB LCD and carry a power cord.

[ashypanda]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

I agree, and right now there is absolutely no reason to get rid of the jack. Headphones are inherently analog in nature, so a DAC is required somewhere regardless (besides, phones need one for their built in speakers anyway). Yes, the cable may not be quite as reliable as a digital one, but since 99% of headphones come with a jack and not with usb-c you'll just end up using a dongle and increasing the points of failure instead of decreasing them. The change must start with the headphone industry - all it takes is starting to make headphones with detachable cables that can use both usb-c and the jack. Eventually people are going to start using usb more and THEN removing the jack from phones will make sense. Right now they're only doing it because it's "hip".

at least some high end IEM manufacturers have brought out cables with lightning, and type-c for use with phones, but some of those are still analog cables which won't work on devices which only have digital, and for IEMs with removable cables it's not much effort to just make a new cable, like my KZ ZS5s, i've got a standard 3.5mm cable, and a bluetooth cable which i can switch to when i feel like it, 

but if anything it's like the DVI days, as there's the DVI-D which is digital only, DVI-A which is analog, and DVI-I which is both,  along with the dual and single link it is a confusing mess.

[Sam.]

8 minutes ago, Unimportant said:

Indeed, I can't help but believe this insane strive for ever thinner devices will someday be a chapter in a updated version of "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds".

 

If they remove the battery and LCD they can make it thinner still ? Just buy a USB LCD and carry a power cord.

Design over functionality. We want good looking phones and don't care how much it costs, or the necessities we give up that we only realise we need when we have the device. A dongle is great, but why couldn't we just keep the port.

[D13H4RD]

The future.

 

One super sleek and beautiful device.

 

Bundled with it is an octopus of dongles which you'll have to connect to make it work.

[Princess Luna]

Don't really care since I don't use phones much, as long as the jack says in our motherboards I have nothing to complain.

[GoodBytes]

What I find funny, is that phones are so thin, that many have a bulde for the camera. Why not make a bulde for the headphone plug as well? Or how take/license Microsoft patent for an expandable one. The idea is not new per se. Many ultrabooks have the same principal for the Ethernet plug.

 

So far, I have yet gotten a genuine argument on why dropping the 3.5mm headphone plug has any advantage. All I got was (paraphrasing): "Now you can pick your own DAC, assuming you have compatible adapter or headphones that wont' work anywhere else, and cost a premium for the cost of the DAC"

 

All in all, companies follow Apple because they saw how much money Apple makes out of it. Apple was unable to grow its market share, so bring profits up, they push for accessories. Once USB Type-C becomes standard everywhere, expect to see Apple to release new Apple product without it anymore, and instead lightning cable, despite it's flaws already visible on current iPhones, not to mention, it doesn't have have Type-C connector, so to make sure you don't try and save money by being in Apple ecosystem. But that is a different topic, and speculations in my part.

 

Back to topic, the adapters are done on the cheap, but sold at a premium for what you get, so that you replace them often.

 

Experiencing a 3.5mm plug that breaks on you, is very rare, and when it happens, it is usually because an accident happened prior to it. At worst, it is easy to replace, as you have 3 or 4 large pins to solder on a board. No special equipment needed.

 

Micro-USB breaks over time due to their limited number of plug-in's and out. It, like Mini USB, was designed for digital cameras, and not phones.

Now, with USB Type-C being very robust, phones won't get replaced as much because the connector broke, and speing 100$ on it.. well. for many they value getting another phone instead, especilaly if it is 2 years old.

 

So, now, with you constantly needing to switch between USB Type-C to 3.5mm headphone adapter and power, you essentially double the numbers of plug-in and outs of the connector... so now it will break just as fast as before... brilliant.

[ashypanda]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

What I find funny, is that phones are so thin, that many have a bulde for the camera. Why not make a bulde for the headphone plug as well? Or how take/license Microsoft patent for an expandable one. The idea is not new per se. Many ultrabooks have the same principal for the Ethernet plug.

 

So far, I have yet gotten any argument on why dropping the 3.5mm headphone plug has any advantage.

 

because it takes courage to drop a 50 year old standard.
 

[TheFlyingSquirrel]

This is consumer electronic manufacturers trying to find new ways to diversify with what is quite a restrictive form factor.

 

Removing the headphone jack gives them space to play with.

[themctipers]

2 minutes ago, kidanime3d said:

This is consumer electronic manufacturers trying to find new ways to diversify with what is quite a restrictive form factor.

 

Removing the headphone jack gives them space to play with.

i need my fucking barometer on my iphone 7.

 

the only tool i ever use on my phone.

 

maybe try making it thicker, i won't scream if your phone is 7mm, or even 7.5, or even 8. i will if you don't use that space for a large battery though and there's no headphone jack HTC U ULTRA

[D13H4RD]

48 minutes ago, themctipers said:

i need my fucking barometer on my iphone 7.

 

the only tool i ever use on my phone.

 

maybe try making it thicker, i won't scream if your phone is 7mm, or even 7.5, or even 8. i will if you don't use that space for a large battery though and there's no headphone jack HTC U ULTRA

Don’t a lot of phones have barometers as well? My old LG G3 has one.

[themctipers]

31 minutes ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Don’t a lot of phones have barometers as well? My old LG G3 has one.

apple removed the headphone jack to add a barometer

 

i just gotta know the air pressure around me at all times, yknow. 

[D13H4RD]

Just now, themctipers said:

apple removed the headphone jack to add a barometer

 

i just gotta know the air pressure around me at all times, yknow. 

Lol

 

It’s actually kinda fun to use when I was in Vietnam last year on holiday. Went up to Ba Na Hills and used the barometer alongside an altimeter app to roughly calculate our altitude.

 

1776 feet.

[themctipers]

Just now, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Lol

 

It’s actually kinda fun to use when I was in Vietnam last year on holiday. Went up to Ba Na Hills and used the barometer alongside an altimeter app to roughly calculate our altitude.

 

1776 feet.

yeah, an app

 

or.. maybe use.. GPS?

the internet?

fun to see, not worth removing the headphone jack for. completely useless other than a fun little number to glance at once a year 

[GoodBytes]

14 minutes ago, themctipers said:

yeah, an app

 

or.. maybe use.. GPS?

the internet?

fun to see, not worth removing the headphone jack for. completely useless other than a fun little number to glance at once a year