Ryzen 5 1600 vs i7-7800X: Ryzen 1080p Gaming Issues Explained; 7700k still King

[mr moose]

2 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Even so it's not like we're comparing gpu's that get compared to things in their price range for it to be somewhat fair

even then GPUs are broken down to price groups or performance groupings for reader convenience more than being fair.  It's just easier to not have to wade through vega, 1080, 1070 and 580 reviews if we can only afford 1050/560 sort of thing.

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

even then GPUs are broken down to price groups or performance groupings for reader convenience more than being fair.  It's just easier to not have to wade through vega, 1080, 1070 and 580 reviews if we can only afford 1050/560 sort of thing.

True but in the CPU space it's way easier to compare them based on specs since they'll have the same amount of cores and threads there. It would come down to whose implementation of what is easily leveraged by software. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a comparison between two 6c/12t cpus is unfair in any way to either.

[mr moose]

15 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

True but in the CPU space it's way easier to compare them based on specs since they'll have the same amount of cores and threads there. It would come down to whose implementation of what is easily leveraged by software. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a comparison between two 6c/12t cpus is unfair in any way to either.

 

Barring major gaps in performance/cost I.E trying to compare a celeron to a 1700,  How many times when designing a build do we jump between the arbitrary performance brackets?  I know I do it a lot. 

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, XenosTech said:

True but in the CPU space it's way easier to compare them based on specs since they'll have the same amount of cores and threads there. It would come down to whose implementation of what is easily leveraged by software. I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a comparison between two 6c/12t cpus is unfair in any way to either.

 

43 minutes ago, mr moose said:

 

Barring major gaps in performance/cost I.E trying to compare a celeron to a 1700,  How many times when designing a build do we jump between the arbitrary performance brackets?  I know I do it a lot. 

For me when it comes to the end of it price is the determining factor, market segments or manufacturer intended purpose be damned. Price and performance are also linked and align to each other, customers will not pay more for less or usually more for the same.

 

Cores, threads, memory channels, TDP, turbo whatever doesn't matter, they don't need to be the same to compare products. That in itself is a trap, just because two CPUs have 6 cores doesn't make them comparable products, not if one costs twice as much. Yes you can compare them but comparable has a different meaning.

 

If a product costs more there is an expectation that it performs higher, product reviews are used to verify that it holds true and you are getting what you are paying for. Not all 6 core CPUs are the same just like not all 6 cylinder engines are the same, the differences being WAY more pronounced in the automotive sector though.

 

Anyway it's unfair to be comparing a $415 CPU to a $210 CPU right up until it's shown they are performance comparable then things get interesting, either product has to then price align to it's performance else risk profits/not selling. 

 

Edit:

For the last sentence when I say compare I mean as if they are direct competing products, I still want them to be on the graphs so I can see the difference.

[Trik'Stari]

9 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Those can be expensive mofos indeed I'm debating between what way to go when it comes to monitor upgrade

Same.

 

I love ultra-wide, but I'm not sure I want to pay for that since I'd be basically losing the functionality of 2 monitors (don't have room or the proper desk for a good monitor arm setup). I'd go with a 27-31in 4k but I've heard so many people say it's terrible for anything other than gaming etc.

 

Part of me is considering just getting a 27in 1440p 144hz monitor to replace my center monitor, and calling it a day. Even then, that wouldn't really challenge this card would it?

[XenosTech]

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Barring major gaps in performance/cost I.E trying to compare a celeron to a 1700,  How many times when designing a build do we jump between the arbitrary performance brackets?  I know I do it a lot. 

Everyone should lol. Why pay more for an intel cpu when you can get the amd one for cheaper with the same performance in multi-threaded tasks unless they're specifically AVX based where intel would be better for the performance.

 

3 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

For me when it comes to the end of it price is the determining factor, market segments or manufacturer intended purpose be damned. Price and performance are also linked and align to each other, customers will not pay more for less or usually more for the same.

 

Cores, threads, memory channels, TDP, turbo whatever doesn't matter, they don't need to be the same to compare products. That in itself is a trap, just because two CPUs have 6 cores doesn't make them comparable products, not if one costs twice as much. Yes you can compare them but comparable has a different meaning.

 

If a product costs more there is an expectation that it performs higher, product reviews are used to verify that it holds true and you are getting what you are paying for. Not all 6 core CPUs are the same just like not all 6 cylinder engines are the same, the differences being WAY more pronounced in the automotive sector though.

 

Anyway it's unfair to be comparing a $415 CPU to a $210 CPU right up until it's shown they are performance comparable then things get interesting, either product has to then price align to it's performance else risk profits/not selling. 

 

Edit:

For the last sentence when I say compare I mean as if they are direct competing products, I still want them to be on the graphs so I can see the difference.

But you know if they compared a 10 core TR to that 6 core intel cpu someone is still going to say it's unfair comparison because of the core difference. It's like you can't win with people, you compare the only 2 6c/12t cpu's on the market and the cheaper one shows better performance and people are saying it's unfair because the more expensive one is shown in a negative light. If the reviewer had stuck the 6800k in the mix too it probably would have made the 7800k look just as bad.

[leadeater]

2 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

But you know if they compared a 10 core TR to that 6 core intel cpu someone is still going to say it's unfair comparison because of the core difference. It's like you can't win with people, you compare the only 2 6c/12t cpu's on the market and the cheaper one shows better performance and people are saying it's unfair because the more expensive one is shown in a negative light. If the reviewer had stuck the 6800k in the mix too it probably would have made the 7800k look just as bad.

I'd say it has to do with brand loyalty but I really don't think it is that. I think it's the fear of the unknown, that what you thought you knew about CPUs may not be true or is much less than what you were aware of and now products turn up challenging your conceptions and knowledge.

 

It's no shock to me when Intel has been the definition of what a PC CPU is for the last decade or more, that's all that most people know. It's a bit like telling someone from the middle ages that the earth is a sphere when all your life it's been flat and still looks flat.

 

Flat earth believers not welcome to partake in conversation with me,

[Ezio Auditore]

The 7800x has the same ipc as 7700k (ignoring the supposed 5% gain)

Still, clock for clock (nearly) with the stock 7700k it performes much worse.This suggests that there is console like optimization for the 7700k.This is surprising atleast for me.

[XenosTech]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I'd say it has to do with brand loyalty but I really don't think it is that. I think it's the fear of the unknown, that what you thought you knew about CPUs may not be true or is much less than what you were aware of and now products turn up challenging your conceptions and knowledge.

 

It's no shock to me when Intel has been the definition of what a PC CPU is for the last decade or more, that's all that most people know. It's a bit like telling someone from the middle ages that the earth is a sphere when all your life it's been flat and still looks flat.

I agree Intel is all people have know for a while now but they shouldn't hold up progress of the market by dismissing  the fact that AMD came out swinging and landed some solid punches where it matters.

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Flat earth believers not welcome to partake in conversation with me,

Keep them away from me too... Swing your ban hammer !

[ArcThanatos]

18 hours ago, mynameisjuan said:

"Price to performance is all that matter though" 

 

Do people really care that its an extra $100 to get the best gaming, or hell most application performance since most apps are still lacking proper multi core support. It not like its breaking the bank for a decent FPS bump

$100 here, $50 there, $20 on that, $10 more on that SSD, $60 more here while im at it.. oh oops that added up quick.
that "best gaming" you are talking about has other factors to it as well, SUCH AS if you are not using a high refresh rate panel, you will have to fork out more money, if you have Australian Quality Internet that performance won't mean bugger all, if you sacrifice Storage or GPU power for that High clocked i7 for Performance than you may have crap looking games or few games to choose from. So yes Yes that $100 will matter, because $100 more can add up to $300 in no time. and not everyone has spare cash floating about so that $100 could break the bank, it comes down to the budget after all. you only have to be a few bucks over to screw the whole show. it might be King of Gaming and im not disputing that, but if you are running a 60Hz panel.. you are going to be only using SOME of that FPS, so maybe that extra could go to a better monitor. its all down to what people have. 

[Princess Luna]

Yeah I have post this video in a couple of threads, people buying x299 for gaming only is starting to really bother me... such a god damn waste... no wonder Intel is still keeping the prices sky high.

 

You totally can game on a super hyper expensive platform meant for heavy computing load, you just shouldn't if gaming will be all you do.

 

People fail to understand that going HEDT is not the same as getting a Ferrari, the fastest possible processor, no you're getting a Mercedes Truck for heavy loads, slow but extremely capable.

 

Say whatever you want, x299 is the worse value for money Intel has ever done.

[Misanthrope]

2 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

Same.

 

I love ultra-wide, but I'm not sure I want to pay for that since I'd be basically losing the functionality of 2 monitors (don't have room or the proper desk for a good monitor arm setup). I'd go with a 27-31in 4k but I've heard so many people say it's terrible for anything other than gaming etc.

 

Part of me is considering just getting a 27in 1440p 144hz monitor to replace my center monitor, and calling it a day. Even then, that wouldn't really challenge this card would it?

Probably not right now but never underestimate the laziness of devs and unoptimized games...sadly. Coincidentally I am also looking at a 1440p panel but my gpu is better matched to the point that anything above it's less than ideal.

[leadeater]

56 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

Yeah I have post this video in a couple of threads, people buying x299 for gaming only is starting to really bother me... such a god damn waste... no wonder Intel is still keeping the prices sky high.

 

You totally can game on a super hyper expensive platform meant for heavy computing load, you just shouldn't if gaming will be all you do.

 

People fail to understand that going HEDT is not the same as getting a Ferrari, the fastest possible processor, no you're getting a Mercedes Truck for heavy loads, slow but extremely capable.

 

Say whatever you want, x299 is the worse value for money Intel has ever done.

 

Intel Desktop CPU: European sports car

AMD Ryzen: Japanese sports car

AMD Threadripper: Tuned Japanese sports car

Intel HEDT: Road legal track day car, you really want to drive it on a race track

 

Kind of the way I see it.

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

 

Intel Desktop CPU: European sports car

AMD Ryzen: Japanese sports car

AMD Threadripper: Tuned Japanese sports car

Intel HEDT: Road legal track day car, you really want to drive it on a race track

 

Kind of the way I see it.

So basically AMD is a sleeper lol

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, XenosTech said:

So basically AMD is a sleeper lol

If you don't mind the slightly louder road noise and not quite as nice interior but like the cheaper maintenance and similar performance .

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

If you don't mind the slightly louder road noise and not quite as nice interior but like the cheaper maintenance and similar performance .

Nothing a little tinkering can't solve to make the noise less and have a elegant interior (or worse)

[leadeater]

@XenosTech

Three X299 owners adamant they like their purchase.

 

[XenosTech]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

@XenosTech

Three X299 owners adamant they like their purchase.

 

 

Seeing these three brings back memories. I'd be that one x299 that has a caparo t1

[leadeater]

7 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

Seeing these three brings back memories. I'd be that one x299 that has a caparo t1

I'd make the joke about OC'ing X299 is like James May in the track day Aston Martin boiling his ass off but he shows a bit too much skin in that one haha. S10E01 for anyone interested.

[XenosTech]

1 minute ago, leadeater said:

I'd make the joke about OC'ing X299 is like James May in the track day Aston Martin boiling is ass off but he shows a bit too much skin in that one haha. S10E01 for anyone interested.

LMFAO !! Would that be reference to Steve's 7800x being burnt on the contact points ?

[ravenshrike]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

 

AMD Threadripper: Tuned Japanese sports car

Intel HEDT: Road legal track day car, you really want to drive it on a race track

I'd look at it more as TR being a GT race car from the first year of the Group B rules in the 80's when they just threw all sorts of shit onto the cars vs modern GT racing which has many more rules and restrictions. It's going to be interesting to see whether AMD goes for horsepower or fuel savings when they make the shrink to 7nm.

[VagabondWraith]

5 hours ago, Princess Cadence said:

Yeah I have post this video in a couple of threads, people buying x299 for gaming only is starting to really bother me... such a god damn waste... no wonder Intel is still keeping the prices sky high.

 

You totally can game on a super hyper expensive platform meant for heavy computing load, you just shouldn't if gaming will be all you do.

 

People fail to understand that going HEDT is not the same as getting a Ferrari, the fastest possible processor, no you're getting a Mercedes Truck for heavy loads, slow but extremely capable.

 

Say whatever you want, x299 is the worse value for money Intel has ever done.

Really? So the 6950X must've been the best thing they've ever done. ?

[Princess Luna]

22 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

Really? So the 6950X must've been the best thing they've ever done. ?

I love your level of ignorance to call a single processor a whole chipset platform.

[VagabondWraith]

14 minutes ago, Princess Cadence said:

I love your level of ignorance to call a single processor a whole chipset platform.

I would consider X99 far worse as you can now get a 10 core for $750 less (let alone 12, 14 & 16 for less than last years 6950X) and an 8 core for $400 less. Not seeing the issue here. Fact is, they lowered prices so I no longer have to pay $1000+ for an 8 core.

[Taf the Ghost]

6 hours ago, leadeater said:

I'd make the joke about OC'ing X299 is like James May in the track day Aston Martin boiling his ass off but he shows a bit too much skin in that one haha. S10E01 for anyone interested.

That's a perfect reference for high OC on a X299, haha.