Intel Preparing Multiple Hexacore Coffee Lake CPUs

[Taf the Ghost]

1 hour ago, Noirgheos said:

Never said they always outright lose, just that if they do, no one is surprised.

 

Also, yeah, forget about the caching changes. They won't be present in Coffee Lake, so if performance issues on the 7800X are due to it, it should be alleviated with the 8700K. Odd that it doesn't seem to affect the 7820X and 7900X as much.

We don't know exactly what Coffee Lake is for its L3 Cache structure.  It should be the Ring Bus + Inclusive L3, as it's supposed to be a refreshed Kaby Lake, but we don't know for sure. 6c Coffee Lake is actually a new design. We'll know more when they announce it. 

 

If Intel moves to Mesh interconnect from Cannonlake/Icelake forward, the 8700k, with a high OC, should be the best gaming CPU for a rather long time. (DX11 optimizations get a lot out of that inclusive L3, it would appear.)

[SteveGrabowski0]

2 hours ago, Noirgheos said:

The thing with Skylake-X is, the 7900X and the 7820X perform much better than the 7800X in games, even when clock speeds are taken into account. Just look at HWUnboxed's overall Skylake-X review. A little odd. Anyway,

 

HEDT losing to the mainstream in gaming is no surprise to anyone. It's been that way for a while. What hasn't been the case is a new mainstream i7 losing to its predecessor. Can't say for sure, but I think the 8700K will have some kind of odd boosting method. Quad-core boost to perhaps 4.4GHz, and all-core boost to maybe 4.2GHz? So if a game is using four cores or less, it could maintain 4.4GHz and therefore match the stock 7700K (and perhaps beat it with what little IPC improvements may stem from Coffee Lake), and if said game uses six, 4.2GHz.

 

I'll have to watch that. Does the 7820X have more cache or something?

[Juanitology]

I'm hoping for a new 199/299 price point for the top-end i5 and i7. It wouldn't really be crazy considering what an R7 1700 costs. 

[Armakar]

1 hour ago, Terodius said:

I'm hoping for a new 199/299 price point for the top-end i5 and i7. It wouldn't really be crazy considering what an R7 1700 costs. 

This is INTEL your talking about. I mean, you would have thought losing 15% market share in the first two quarters of the year taught them a lesson in pricing, but then they just go and release Kabylake X, a total disaster, and make it stupidly expensive too. 

 

[Taf the Ghost]

23 minutes ago, Armakar said:

This is INTEL your talking about. I mean, you would have thought losing 15% market share in the first two quarters of the year taught them a lesson in pricing, but then they just go and release Kabylake X, a total disaster, and make it stupidly expensive too. 

 

I expect the 8700k will come in around $370 USD or so to start. Maybe higher.

[Armakar]

36 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

I expect the 8700k will come in around $370 USD or so to start. Maybe higher.

Screw that if that's real. Ryzen 7 1700 can be found for like £250 on deal, 2 more cores 4 more threads. Unless it has insane IPC and OC potential.

[Noirgheos]

2 hours ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

I'll have to watch that. Does the 7820X have more cache or something?

It does, but not a terrible amount more.

[Jito463]

2 hours ago, Terodius said:

I'm hoping for a new 199/299 price point for the top-end i5 and i7. It wouldn't really be crazy considering what an R7 1700 costs. 

The thing is, if Intel did that (which I doubt they would), it could spark a real price war between AMD and Intel.  The margins AMD has using their modular system in Ryzen - coupled with the 80%+ of fully working Zen dies - could allow AMD to drop prices considerably and still make a profit.  Intel is still using a monolithic design, which works for them, but is more expensive to produce.  There's no doubt that AMD could continually drop prices lower than Intel would be willing - or able - to do.

[Taf the Ghost]

31 minutes ago, Jito463 said:

The thing is, if Intel did that (which I doubt they would), it could spark a real price war between AMD and Intel.  The margins AMD has using their modular system in Ryzen - coupled with the 80%+ of fully working Zen dies - could allow AMD to drop prices considerably and still make a profit.  Intel is still using a monolithic design, which works for them, but is more expensive to produce.  There's no doubt that AMD could continually drop prices lower than Intel would be willing - or able - to do.

Neither AMD nor Intel will start a pricing war. Both would lose too much money for it. They're savvy enough to know to just stay in their price segments. 

[Fonzie92]

Might be a dumb question... but will any of these work on z270 boards? Could have sworn I saw a thread on /r/Intel that said it was a possibility. Most likely a rumor?

[MageTank]

14 minutes ago, Fonzie92 said:

Might be a dumb question... but will any of these work on z270 boards? Could have sworn I saw a thread on /r/Intel that said it was a possibility. Most likely a rumor?

They are the same socket size, but rumors are indicating that they swapped the VCC and GND pin locations on the CPU substrate. In other words, it might be an "1151 V2" socket, with a new 300 series chipset. Would be pretty depressing if that is indeed the case, but I would imagine they have a reason for doing so if it's true. 

[Taf the Ghost]

23 minutes ago, Fonzie92 said:

Might be a dumb question... but will any of these work on z270 boards? Could have sworn I saw a thread on /r/Intel that said it was a possibility. Most likely a rumor?

Rumors from the people that watch the Chinese forums have said it's going to need a new socket for technical reasons (or at least a new pin-out setup), but we don't have any hard confirmation. We'll get an announcement of a release date and some details soon enough.

 

At some level, Kaby Lake only came out in January. I guess when we're in CPU Warz time, we want something new really fast.

[Fonzie92]

Thank you, you two.

 

I'm just trying to give me a reason to upgrade from  my good old i7 2600  

 

Guess now that I think of it.. I'll need to buy a new mobo anyway, lol. However, this little 2600 is a little monster I am not even sure if I need to upgrade. But I heard if I go to CoffeeLake i7 there is around 30% performance gainz

[Agosto]

1 hour ago, MageTank said:

They are the same socket size, but rumors are indicating that they swapped the VCC and GND pin locations on the CPU substrate. In other words, it might be an "1151 V2" socket, with a new 300 series chipset. Would be pretty depressing if that is indeed the case, but I would imagine they have a reason for doing so if it's true. 

If it's just a swap then no, the only reason is forcing people to buy new motherboards.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, Fonzie92 said:

Thank you, you two.

 

I'm just trying to give me a reason to upgrade from  my good old i7 2600  

 

Guess now that I think of it.. I'll need to buy a new mobo anyway, lol. However, this little 2600 is a little monster I am not even sure if I need to upgrade. But I heard if I go to CoffeeLake i7 there is around 30% performance gainz

Depends what you're doing. The SMT + multi-thread improvements are actually the biggest gains on the post-Sandy Bridge CPUs. Single-core thorough-put is not actually up that much clock for clock. (Though that's in totality. They've moved IPC gains around, so as we saw with Skylake-X compared to Skylake-S, some things were up 5% while others were down -4% or so.) The improved memory speed & I/O are probably the better features.

 

Coffee Lake is going to matter for the clocks and what the 6c parts are based upon. If it's just some unseen Skylake/Kaby Lake design, that's a lot better for the end-user than a cut-down Skylake-X design. If it is the latter, at the current clocks... umm... we might have regression. We'll see.  But if you're in the Intel camp, the 6c K SKU should be the CPU to grab and hold onto for a while.

[Fonzie92]

1 hour ago, Taf the Ghost said:

Depends what you're doing. The SMT + multi-thread improvements are actually the biggest gains on the post-Sandy Bridge CPUs. Single-core thorough-put is not actually up that much clock for clock. (Though that's in totality. They've moved IPC gains around, so as we saw with Skylake-X compared to Skylake-S, some things were up 5% while others were down -4% or so.) The improved memory speed & I/O are probably the better features.

 

Coffee Lake is going to matter for the clocks and what the 6c parts are based upon. If it's just some unseen Skylake/Kaby Lake design, that's a lot better for the end-user than a cut-down Skylake-X design. If it is the latter, at the current clocks... umm... we might have regression. We'll see.  But if you're in the Intel camp, the 6c K SKU should be the CPU to grab and hold onto for a while.

Thanks for all the info! I just do light game development stuff in the Godot engine. I went from a FX 6300 to a i7 2600 about 3 months ago. Previewing scenes within the game engine improved by almost 1500ms(1.5 seconds). Was an INSANE and awesome quality of life improvement.  I'm just thinking if I do spend the extra $ to go w/ CoffeeLake if it'll be worth it...

 

e: As I would need new ram.. new mobo.. and cpu lol

[PCGuy_5960]

16 hours ago, Noirgheos said:

Also, yeah, forget about the caching changes. 

We can't be 100% sure though.... Anyways, I made this based on the leaks:

The 8700K will be a very fast CPU

[Valentyn]

1 hour ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

We can't be 100% sure though.... Anyways, I made this based on the leaks:

The 8700K will be a very fast CPU

10% over KabyLake would be huge. Intel haven't had such an increase in years.

[PCGuy_5960]

5 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

10% over KabyLake would be huge. Intel haven't had such an increase in years.

Skylake's IPC is 10% better than Boradwell's so it's not impossible, I believe that we will see a 5-10% IPC increase with Coffeelake 

[Drak3]

15 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Skylake's IPC is 10% better than Boradwell's so it's not impossible, I believe that we will see a 5-10% IPC increase with Coffeelake 

Seeing as Skylake is approximately 5% better than Haswell, and Broadwell is a meager 1-3% better than Haswell, I'm calling bullshit on that.

[Zodiark1593]

32 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Seeing as Skylake is approximately 5% better than Haswell, and Broadwell is a meager 1-3% better than Haswell, I'm calling bullshit on that.

With fast RAM, Skylake stretches a bit further. Haswell didn't seem to care too much about RAM so long as it wasn't ridiculously slow. 

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, Fonzie92 said:

Thanks for all the info! I just do light game development stuff in the Godot engine. I went from a FX 6300 to a i7 2600 about 3 months ago. Previewing scenes within the game engine improved by almost 1500ms(1.5 seconds). Was an INSANE and awesome quality of life improvement.  I'm just thinking if I do spend the extra $ to go w/ CoffeeLake if it'll be worth it...

 

e: As I would need new ram.. new mobo.. and cpu lol

It's a whole new system, whatever happens. Though you might look for some benchmarking in Godot. If you have a specialized Use Case, you never quite know exactly what'll be best. We honestly don't know what design changes there might be with Coffee Lake, so it's still up in the air. If they've changed the L3 cache, things could be really interesting. We just have to wait and see. Coffee Lake is the last Desktop CPU update to be released until late 2018. The most prudent thing to do simply wait a few months so you can make the best purchasing decision.

[Taf the Ghost]

2 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

We can't be 100% sure though.... Anyways, I made this based on the leaks:

The 8700K will be a very fast CPU

That's going to be a HOT cpu. 

[PCGuy_5960]

2 minutes ago, Taf the Ghost said:

That's going to be a HOT cpu. 

Unless Intel decides to solder it, but I don't think that this is going to happen

[Taf the Ghost]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Unless Intel decides to solder it, but I don't think that this is going to happen

With a Ring Bus + Inclusive L3 Cache, a delided 6c 8700k is possibly the best pure Gaming CPU for a very long. On the assumption future Intel CPUs are switching to the Mesh system. DX11 seems to be best at utilizing that structure, so it can peg those really high FPS with the right GPU.