7900X Coming In Hot?!

[tom_w141]

Just now, techstorm970 said:

What is TIM, exactly?

Thermal Interface Material

 

It is what transfers the heat from the die to the IHS. Solder and Thermal pastes are both kinds of TIM. Solder is metal so it is the best for heat transfer and because high core count CPUs have more cores and get hotter they need a better thermal solution like solder, traditionally these have been soldered like Ryzen and X99 before Intel stopped bothering. With X299 they decided to use the same paste and adhesive they use in the notorious 7700k. The reason this is a bad decision is because as you can see by the 1st post, paste is no where near as thermally efficient as solder and therefore these higher core count CPUs are getting dangerously hot unless they are delidding. Delidding is the process of removing the IHS and replacing the TIM with a premium solution (as you would expect on a premium product). Doing this improves temperatures dramatically and allows for further overclocking.

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

I know, it is bad, but I first thought that 95C was core temps. (Which is VERY bad) But then I realized that it was the package temp, so meh. Not that big of a deal

 

It's a big deal to @tom_w141 who actually never answered my question about if he was familiar with Intel package temps, but tried to call me out for not answering something, which I did.  So let's call that the two examples that he avoided right before telling me that I was avoiding.  Too funny. 

 

You see talking about package temps, whether he's familiar with them or not is irrelevant.  That fact that Gamer's Nexus is reporting it in a negative way is what's got his full attention.  

[goodtofufriday]

12 minutes ago, VagabondWraith said:

Makes me wonder if the 7820X was the same price as the 1700, and soldered, would the AMD fangirls really consider Intel? Doubtful. They have come from hiding in defense of a good (not great) product after all these years.

But the pricing and solder are precise reasons why they dont consider intel. If those two factors didnt exist then there wouldnt even be a discussion. But its because its way cheaper and soldered that its such a big deal. 

 

 

[Techstorm970]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Thermal Interface Material

Thanks.  Google was not being helpful.  

[VagabondWraith]

1 minute ago, goodtofufriday said:

But the pricing and solder are precise reasons why they dont consider intel. If those two factors didnt exist then there wouldnt even be a discussion. But its because its way cheaper and soldered that its such a big deal. 

 

 

I don't believe that to be the reason, but valid point.

[done12many2]

7 minutes ago, XenosTech said:

 

 Yup (divide by 2 and you should have your us price) and this is the cheapest you can get them here at anywhere else the markup is stupid

 

Yeah that sucks pretty bad man.  

 

I have an idea.  Everyone move to the US?

[Valentyn]

8 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

This would be their excuse: "X299 motherboards are way too expensive"

Lol I'd drop my current x99 system in a heartbeat if Intel did that!

Only reason I'm waiting is because of temps (no solder), and overall price.
 

[XenosTech]

Just now, done12many2 said:

 

Yeah that sucks pretty bad man.  

 

I have an idea.  Everyone move to the US?

No thanks, I'm moving to canada sometime in the not so distant future since all of my relatives in the US died in the last year.

[tom_w141]

8 minutes ago, done12many2 said:

 

It's a big deal to @tom_w141 who actually never answered my question about if he was familiar with Intel package temps, but tried to call me out for not answering something, which I did.  So let's call that the two examples that he avoided right before telling me that I was avoiding.  Too funny. 

 

You see talking about package temps, whether he's familiar with them or not is irrelevant.  That fact that Gamer's Nexus is reporting it in a negative way is what's got his full attention.  

My understanding was package was core and cpu was socket. Which would indicate package is important? Core temp would be the individual cores? correct if I'm wrong and I didn't deliberately ignore the question sorry.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

My understanding was package was core and cpu was socket. Which would indicate package is important? Core temp would be the individual cores? correct if I'm wrong and I didn't deliberately ignore the question sorry.

Package is always higher on X CPUs, because they have more cores. Individual core temps are usually 5-10C cooler

[done12many2]

1 minute ago, Valentyn said:

Lol I'd drop my current x99 system in a heartbeat if Intel did that!

Only reason I'm waiting is because of temps (no solder), and overall price.
 

 

Even running it at 4.3 to 4.4 should give you decent temps and a nice performance bump.   Admittedly, I'd personally run it much higher.  I'm just glad that if we choose to address the heat with more cooling, it will continue to scale higher and higher (within reason). 

 

Do you remember the XFR?  It was going to respond and provide us with higher clock speeds based on adequate cooling.  Then we found out that the reward was 100 MHz.  The silicon speed ran out a lot faster then the thermal limitation.  

 

I like having the choice to go higher, without the need to run LN2 to do so.  

 

 

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Package is always higher on X CPUs, because they have more cores. Individual core temps are usually 5-10C cooler

90 is still 20 too high for my liking same goes for 85  

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, done12many2 said:

Do you remember the XFR?  It was going to respond and provide us with higher clock speeds based on adequate cooling.  Then we found out that the reward was 100 MHz.  The silicon speed ran out a lot faster then the thermal limitation.  

But this wasn't an issue /s

[Morgan MLGman]

Quick fact: There are people ignoring the pricing aspect of X299 "because it's for HEDT & semi-enterprise" but at the same time they're ignoring the power draw which is admittedly big on Skylake-X chips, especially when using AVX-512 "because the CPU doesn't work at its max power all the time". Remember that if you're throwing that HEDT argument, someone else can say that if it's for HEDT use, then the CPU will be used to work at 100% for a lot longer than it is with a mainstream one used for gaming & web browsing, so the overall power draw will matter at the end of each month. Especially if you have 20 rigs like that in a company. Which also means a lot of heat, so adding a powerful AC solution to rooms with such PCs also adds to overall cost.

 

But what do I know...

[tom_w141]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

But this wasn't an issue /s

1. No its not an issue as there is no negative consequence like I don't know? 95 degrees at a pitiful 1.275V?

2. How on Earth are we discussing XFR on a thread about thermal issues. Truly is a fan boy gift, if the floor was the topic you boys are scaling the walls  

[done12many2]

3 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

My understanding was package was core and cpu was socket. Which would indicate package is important? Core temp would be the individual cores? correct if I'm wrong and I didn't deliberately ignore the question sorry.

 

Package is not core and CPU is not socket.  Package temp is nothing more then the temperature measured between the CPU and IHS.  This temperature is a combination of heat transferring form the die along with other factors such as FIVR.  Package temps will always be considerably higher then core temps.

 

Zen does not measure temps in the same way.  AMD doesn't measure power in the same way.  Comparing temps between the two is generally useless in anyway.  Same with power.  

 

This is not to say that you want to run 95c as a constant package temp because that's dumb.  

 

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Package is always higher on X CPUs, because they have more cores. Individual core temps are usually 5-10C cooler

 

Mine are usually 10 to 15c cooler.

 

CPU input voltage (VCCIN) will impact package temps greatly.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, Morgan MLGman said:

Quick fact: There are people ignoring the pricing aspect of X299 "because it's for HEDT & semi-enterprise" but at the same time they're ignoring the power draw which is admittedly big on Skylake-X chips, especially when using AVX-512 "because the CPU doesn't work at its max power all the time". Remember that if you're throwing that HEDT argument, someone else can say that if it's for HEDT use, then the CPU will be used to work at 100% for a lot longer than it is with a mainstream one used for gaming & web browsing, so the overall power draw will matter at the end of each month. Especially if you have 20 rigs like that in a company. Which also means a lot of heat, so adding a powerful AC solution to rooms with such PCs also adds to overall cost.

 

But what do I know...

Careful Intel hate doesn't go down well here no matter how factual.

[done12many2]

2 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

1. No its not an issue as there is no negative consequence like I don't know? 95 degrees at a pitiful 1.275V?

 

You happen to be correct, but you don't really know why your correct.  That's what makes this entire thread kinda funny.  

 

Quote

2. How on Earth are we discussing XFR on a thread about thermal issues. Truly is a fan boy gift, if the floor was the topic you boys are scaling the walls  

 

That response says it all.  

 

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, done12many2 said:

Mine are usually 10 to 15c cooler.

 

CPU input voltage (VCCIN) will impact package temps greatly.  

I doubt that GN spent a lot of time tweaking, so they probably left the VCCIN at auto. (Which could explain those insanely high package temps)

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

-Snip-

interesting but every internet source I can see says with intel package is the total and often equal or close to your hottest core.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

interesting but every internet source I can see says with intel package is the total and often equal or close to your hottest core.

On mainstream, yes. On HEDT, no

[done12many2]

12 minutes ago, tom_w141 said:

My understanding was package was core and cpu was socket. Which would indicate package is important? Core temp would be the individual cores? correct if I'm wrong and I didn't deliberately ignore the question sorry.

 

Just now, tom_w141 said:

interesting but every internet source I can see says with intel package is the total and often equal or close to your hottest core.

 

Proof that you're just making this shit up as you go.

 

You don't really know what the fuck package temps is, but hey, it was reported in a negative way about Intel, so you're going to post and talk about it, right?

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

On mainstream, yes. On HEDT, no

These are X99 posts i'm reading. Ironically they often involve people worrying about the high 60s. Ha if only they could see in to 2017 where 95 was acceptable just because its the new Intel norm.

[tom_w141]

1 minute ago, done12many2 said:

 

 

Proof that you're just making this shit up as you go.

 

You don't really know what the fuck package temps is, but hey, it was reported in a negative way about Intel, so you're going to post and talk about it, right?

Wrong 1st quote was my understanding. Second was after searching the difference.

[done12many2]

Just now, tom_w141 said:

Wrong 1st quote was my understanding. Second was after searching the difference.

 

No, the point was, you don't know what's what.  But you're going to talk about it anyways.  

 

You never inquired any further about what is actually was as that wasn't your intent behind the thread.  

 

I'm glad that you understand better now though.  You're better armed for further Intel bashing.  You're welcome.