7900X reviewed!

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, techstorm970 said:

Now, after a ton of optimization, Ryzen is easily trading blows with Kaby Lake.

The 7700K still outperforms Ryzen by 10-20% depending on the game, but yeah, it has come a long way

[AnonymousGuy]

10 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

The 7700K still outperforms Ryzen by 10-20% depending on the game, but yeah, it has come a long way

And Ryzen doesn't support overclocking soooooo yeah add on another 15% loss on top.

[PCGuy_5960]

29 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

And Ryzen doesn't support overclocking soooooo yeah add on another 15% loss on top.

It is unlocked, but the question is "Can you call it unlocked, if it can't overclock higher than its boost clock?"/s

Edited June 17, 2017 by PCGuy_5960

[MageTank]

17 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

And Ryzen doesn't support overclocking soooooo yeah add on another 15% loss on top.

It does support overclocking.

 

15 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It is unlocked, but the question is "Can you call it unlocked, if it can't overclock higher than its boost clock?"

Yes, you can call it unlocked, because it is. You are assuming all units have the same boost clock, but that is simply not true. Some of them boost to 3.6, but can be manually overclocked to as high as 4.1 in some rare cases. It being a relatively poor overclocker, does not make it a non-overclocking chip.

 

Also, both of your numbers are off. It's not "10-20% slower" and "another 15% loss on top" than Intel CPU's. IPC wise, it's about 5-7% behind Intel. Meaning, at the exact same clock speeds, it's 5-7% slower on average (depending on instruction sets being used). Kaby Lake boasts an average clock speed advantage of roughly 25% (4ghz Ryzen vs 5ghz Kaby) but clock speed does not scale linearly in all situations. You have to also factor in thread scaling and application pitfalls, along with other system bottlenecks. If we are making the comparison of these newer chips against Ryzen, technically their gaming lead will diminish when compared to the 7700k, as they will have a much harder time of achieving and maintaining those higher clock speeds on average. Unless the 8c CPU's hit 5ghz with relative ease, which would also boast a significant improvement in minimum frames in titles that can leverage the additional threads. My point is, it's hard to throw around random numbers without context and consider it a general fact, when it's far from the truth.

 

Besides, unless you are trying to push 240hz panels at a lower resolution, it likely won't matter in the context of gaming. Where these CPU's (both X299 and X399) will shine, is their heavy workload scenarios. I see Intel's offerings to be better for the all-around consumer, albeit at a much higher price premium, AMD is going to offer a ton of threads at an insanely cheap price. Imagine having an unlocked Xeon that could potentially do 4ghz on 32 threads, assuming you had the cooling. That is essentially what we are talking about here, lol. 

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, MageTank said:

Yes, you can call it unlocked, because it is.

Sry, it was a joke.... I should have added a "/s" to it

[TahoeDust]

Can someone explain the deal with m.2 raid on this platform.  I want to setup a bootable Raid 0 array with two m.2 drives.  Are all of the x299 boards capable of this?  From what I understand I do not need the VROC key to do this, correct?

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, TahoeDust said:

Can someone explain the deal with m.2 raid on this platform.  I want to setup a bootable Raid 0 array with two m.2 drives.  Are all of the x299 boards capable of this?  From what I understand I do not need the VROC key to do this, correct?

Yep AFAIK, the RAID key is required only if you need/want NVMe RAID 1 or 5

[AnonymousGuy]

2 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yep AFAIK, the RAID key is required only if you need/want NVMe RAID 1 or 5

Not finalized, but raid 0/1/10 you need the standard key.  raid 5 requires the premium key.

[PCGuy_5960]

Just now, AnonymousGuy said:

Not finalized, but raid 0/1/10 you need the standard key.  raid 5 requires the premium key.

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

Just now, PCGuy_5960 said:

 

 

 

We might see mobo vendors integrate the vroc keys directly in to the board.  Who knows.

[Drak3]

30 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I see Intel's offerings to be better for the all-around consumer, albeit at a much higher price premium, AMD is going to offer a ton of threads at an insanely cheap price.

Eh, I kinda disagree. Intel's the better option for prosumers looking for Single Core and AVX Perf (and on HEDT, not heavily sacrificing core count for SCP or vice versa), and Intel exclusive features. Same goes for competitive gamers that want the highest average FPS numbers they can get.

For those going after price/performance, or PCIe expandability, TR will be the better option.

For someone that just needs 8 competent cores, R7 is the way to go.

There isn't really much of an all rounder anymore. It used to be the 5930K, seeing as it OC'd very similarly to the 4790K, offered 6 cores, and 40 native PCIe lanes. But the SLX only offers 28 lanes on its hexacore, and chipset lanes are restricted to DMI 3.0.

[MageTank]

Just now, Drak3 said:

Eh, I kinda disagree. Intel's the better option for prosumers looking for Single Core and AVX Perf (and on HEDT, not heavily sacrificing core count for SCP or vice versa), and Intel exclusive features. Same goes for competitive gamers that want the highest average FPS numbers they can get.

For those going after price/performance, or PCIe expandability, TR will be the better option.

For someone that just needs 8 competent cores, R7 is the way to go.

There isn't really much of an all rounder anymore. It used to be the 5930K, seeing as it OC'd very similarly to the 4790K, offered 6 cores, and 40 native PCIe lanes. But the SLX only offers 28 lanes on its hexacore, and chipset lanes are restricted to DMI 3.0.

I meant in the context of X299 and X399. 6-8 threads at 5ghz, while certainly more expensive than AMD's 8 core offering, is the only offering that offers the best of both worlds. Decently high core count, at amazing clock speeds. They also won't be as tedious to cool as these 10c+ SKU's, which will undoubtedly require some extra talent to tame the heat. AMD's threadripper and EPYC lineup will offer a ton of cores, but they will still be slower cores. Amdahl's law will still apply. That's not to say 3.5-4ghz is a bad thing, as it will certainly get the job done considering the modern IPC, it just won't hold a candle to the redundantly fast 5ghz that Intel has been known to deliver recently.

 

So someone that does both gaming AND content creation, might find themselves looking for an all-in-one solution, which will likely be a 6-8c X299 CPU that does 5ghz, over an 8-16c Ryzen/Threadripper SKU that can only do 3.6-4ghz on it's best day. People that are looking for raw lifting power on a budget, are going to go with Threadripper/EPYC hands down, but I find that those types of consumers are far more rare in this day in age. 

[TorqueS]

It looks like intel is done sitting on its ass...now bring this kind of chip to mainstream along with competitive platform prices.

[Drak3]

2 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I meant in the context of X299 and X399. 6-8 threads at 5ghz, while certainly more expensive than AMD's 8 core offering, is the only offering that offers the best of both worlds.

The PCIe lane restriction holds me back from agreeing with you, because there is more than just 2 worlds to this. It'd be different if the hexa and octocores came in 40-44 PCIe lane flavors. And some people don't want to pay for the best of both worlds, if they only need or want the best of one.

 

3 minutes ago, MageTank said:

So someone that does both gaming AND content creation, might find themselves looking for an all-in-one solution, which will likely be a 6-8c X299 CPU that does 5ghz, over an 8-16c Ryzen/Threadripper SKU that can only do 3.6-4ghz on it's best day.

It really depends on their expectations. I can't see someone choosing Intel if their expectations aren't revolving around the highest FPS numbers they can get, especially if they're streaming/game commentating outside of highly competitive games.

We know that Ryzen isn't as good as a 4790K, 6700K, or 7700K in gaming, when all 3 of those chips start out at what a sliver of Ryzen is capable of in terms of clockspeed, and all boast the same or better IPC. That doesn't change that Ryzen can deliver an experience that is better than good enough for consumers with realistic expectations, or those that can't necessarily afford Intel.

 

5 minutes ago, MageTank said:

People that are looking for raw lifting power on a budget, are going to go with Threadripper/EPYC hands down, but I find that those types of consumers are far more rare in this day in age. 

Maybe because the best option for that is 5 years old, and only has raw lifting power in certain scenarios. And the reputation behind it isn't exactly good.

[TahoeDust]

57 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yep AFAIK, the RAID key is required only if you need/want NVMe RAID 1 or 5

 

54 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Not finalized, but raid 0/1/10 you need the standard key.  raid 5 requires the premium key.

Hmmm...When reviewing the manuals for the Asus Prime Deluxe and Asus Strix boards, the Deluxe manual has instructions on how to setup vroc, the Strix manual mentions the vroc key, but no instructions on setting it up.  The Deluxe manual has instructions on setting it up, and also this info:

 

 

 

I am wondering if that means that the Deluxe supports it and the Strix doesn't?

[PCGuy_5960]

1 minute ago, TahoeDust said:

I am wondering if that mean that the Deluxe supports it and the Strix doesn't?

It could mean that the Strix has a VROC key built in

[domandric034]

3 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

 

Hmmm...When reviewing the manuals for the Asus Prime Deluxe and Asus Strix boards, the Deluxe manual has instructions on how to setup vroc, the Strix manual mentions the vroc key, but no instructions on setting it up.  The Deluxe manual has instructions on setting it up, and also this info:

 

 

 

I am wondering if that means that the Deluxe supports it and the Strix doesn't?

INTEL WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ?!

[AnonymousGuy]

2 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

 

Hmmm...When reviewing the manuals for the Asus Prime Deluxe and Asus Strix boards, the Deluxe manual has instructions on how to setup vroc, the Strix manual mentions the vroc key, but no instructions on setting it up.  The Deluxe manual has instructions on setting it up, and also this info:

 

 

 

I am wondering if that means that the Deluxe supports it and the Strix doesn't?

Could have been a recent change to get rid of standard / premium vroc keys and only have 1 key to enable raid 1+.  Or maybe Asus made a deal that won't apply to other brands.

 

Who the fuck knows lol.  It's just a software licensing thing so it can go anyway they want it to.  Linux gets all this shit for free without the key.

[juri-han]

im happy to hear skylake-x doesn't have the TIM issues of kaby since they ditched on soldering but $600 with the PCI-e lanes cut down on the 8 core 7820x im probably going to pass

 

it was ether that or ryzen but after its mediocre gaming performance (albeit MUCH improved since launch) and sill having ram issues the tech is there and the price is amazing with ryzen i think after a couple of updates zen 2 with higher clock speeds in the price range of a 1700 would be a dream come true and i can wait a little longer

[MageTank]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The PCIe lane restriction holds me back from agreeing with you, because there is more than just 2 worlds to this. It'd be different if the hexa and octocores came in 40-44 PCIe lane flavors. And some people don't want to pay for the best of both worlds, if they only need or want the best of one.

 

Why would the PCIe lane restriction hold you back? Nvidia has killed triple/quad SLI, and it's not like you will be raiding PCIe SSD's, unless you are one of those people that honestly believe it's a smart idea to do so, lol. You are still looking at 28 lanes on the 6 and 8 core SKU's, which is 4 more PCIE lanes than the standard Ryzen CPU's. Assuming you are dedicating 16 lanes to single GPU (or 2x 8 for SLI) you still end up with enough bandwidth for 3 PCIe SSD's. A more realistic setup would likely be 1-2 GPU's, 2 PCIE SSD's, and maybe a sound card or extra Ethernet card. Still plenty of lanes to make that happen.

 

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

It really depends on their expectations. I can't see someone choosing Intel if their expectations aren't revolving around the highest FPS numbers they can get, especially if they're streaming/game commentating outside of highly competitive games.

We know that Ryzen isn't as good as a 4790K, 6700K, or 7700K in gaming, when all 3 of those chips start out at what a sliver of Ryzen is capable of in terms of clockspeed, and all boast the same or better IPC. That doesn't change that Ryzen can deliver an experience that is better than good enough for consumers with realistic expectations, or those that can't necessarily afford Intel.

I fail to understand your point of "it depends on their expectations" when I already listed the context. It would be for people that want the best of both worlds. More cores AND a higher clock speed. That alone should indicate that these are people that want higher framerates and extra thread power for whatever multi-tasking they plan on doing. Understand, the twitch mentality is growing. Everyone and their mother wants to record themselves playing games, but don't want to dedicate an entirely different machine to that task. This serves as the ideal solution for those people. Especially those doing so at a competitive level, and need the extra CPU juice to push those higher refresh rates. Do I personally see the need? Not really, but I know the demand exists. 

 

Nowhere in my posts did I say Ryzen was incapable of gaming. Nor do I go around saying that anywhere. At realistic resolutions and refresh rates, Ryzen is exactly where it needs to be, and will deliver an identical experience in that regard. It's just simply not the same for everyone, especially in the context that I mentioned earlier. 

 

10 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Maybe because the best option for that is 5 years old, and only has raw lifting power in certain scenarios. And the reputation behind it isn't exactly good.

What? The best option for that isn't 5 years old, it's simply not stable, lol. People buy those used Xeon Engineering Samples from Ebay for when they need lifting on a budget. We have an entire hardware group on telegram that uses these chips, and guide people on how to read the steppings and revisions to get "the most stable chips". I assume you are referring to the FX lineup, which would have still been wrong, even back then. 

[TahoeDust]

2 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Could have been a recent change to get rid of standard / premium vroc keys and only have 1 key to enable raid 1+.  Or maybe Asus made a deal that won't apply to other brands.

 

Who the fuck knows lol.  It's just a software licensing thing so it can go anyway they want it to.  Linux gets all this shit for free without the key.

 

5 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

It could mean that the Strix has a VROC key built in

This is so murky...truely my biggest frustration with x299.  In the MSI manual it has instruction on how to setup a m.2 raid 0 array using Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology.  Is this the same as a VROC array?

[AnonymousGuy]

3 minutes ago, TahoeDust said:

 

This is so murky...truely my biggest frustration with x299.  In the MSI manual it has instruction on how to setup a m.2 raid 0 array using Intel(R) Rapid Storage Technology.  Is this the same as a VROC array?

VROC is a branding given to RSTe (e=enterprise) version 5.0 .  4.0 was just RSTe and didn't support bootable raid and shit like that.

 

No key = you can still do SATA raid.

Key = Bootable NVME raid.

[THE_maverick]

On 6/16/2017 at 8:25 AM, NumLock21 said:

Way out of reach for many...

How so?  What person that NEEDS it finds it out of reach?

[TahoeDust]

When compared, the Strix board does not list CPU raid support, while the deluxe does.  Is it possible that the Strix does not support CPU raid?...or do you think this was just an oversight?

 

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, THE_maverick said:

How so?  What person that NEEDS it finds it out of reach?

That cpu is around $1000, the price of a entire system.

 

1 hour ago, TahoeDust said:

When compared, the Strix board does not list CPU raid support, while the deluxe does.  Is it possible that the Strix does not support CPU raid?...or do you think this was just an oversight?

 

Both supports RAID on the SATA ports, just like every high-end chipset boards of the past. Why does Asus says CPU RAID? My guess they probably it's not software or hardware but from the motherboard?