7900X reviewed!

[Drak3]

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

Nvidia has killed triple/quad SLI

Assuming that all people running HEDT, or multiple GPU configs care about SLI. With some softwares being able to take advantage of multiple GPUs when not in SLI, having multiple GFX cards can be quite beneficial. Then there are those that don't fall in the intended audience but still benefit from platform perks, anyone running a SLI+Xfire for example.

 

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

and it's not like you will be raiding PCIe SSD's, unless you are one of those people that honestly believe it's a smart idea to do

One doesn't need to RAID multiple disks to use multiple disks. If that were required, my system would be rocking a 2TB spinner. Also, I intend on using an x16 M.2 AiC if they become available for independent purchase, which would put me at 36 lanes from the CPU, seeing as my 1080 and 470 are running on x8 each, with the 950 Pro running on x4.

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

Assuming you are dedicating 16 lanes to single GPU (or 2x 8 for SLI) you still end up with enough bandwidth for 3 PCIe SSD's. A more realistic setup would likely be 1-2 GPU's, 2 PCIE SSD's, and maybe a sound card or extra Ethernet card. Still plenty of lanes to make that happen.

Assuming that the use case doesn't benefit from high, speedy storage capacity, multiple GPUs, specialized devices, etc.

3 hours ago, MageTank said:

I fail to understand your point of "it depends on their expectations" when I already listed the context. It would be for people that want the best of both worlds. More cores AND a higher clock speed.

Again, there's more than just core count and clock speed. IO is also something that is considered when looking at HEDT. Some people also recognize that their use case might not have perceivable benefits after a certain threshold. Things like gaming don't necessarily care about going from 3.9GHz Ryzen to 4.5GHz Kaby that much, and the cost delta won't go over well for those using HEDT because they have to, not want to.

 

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

Nowhere in my posts did I say Ryzen was incapable of gaming. Nor do I go around saying that anywhere.

Here's the thing, you specifically called out the overused 'gaming content creator' use case. General rule of thumb isn't that they're building a system around what is the most powerful system that they can, unless they're LTT or JayzTwoCents. They're building it around a cost effective configuration that enables them to push their content in a timely manner, and is reliable.

 

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

he best option for that isn't 5 years old, it's simply not stable

For most people that need lifting power, instability is either a bit of a deal breaker, or they're pretty stupid.

 

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

People buy those used Xeon Engineering Samples from Ebay for when they need lifting on a budget.

I've got an artist friend socking an 8 core Sandy Xeon that he bought used when Haswell-EP first dropped, for around a 1/3 of the price that it was still going for new at the time. Would I ever consider that a reliable method of obtaining a budget lifter? Nope, it relies too much on someone letting go of their old chip, not a company trying to push product 24/7.

4 hours ago, MageTank said:

I assume you are referring to the FX lineup, which would have still been wrong, even back then. 

The FX lineup was a pretty damn good for compiling, still is for the money. Hence why I said that in certain scenarios, it was a budget lifter. Otherwise, the best bet one has is relying on someone being generous (or stupid) enough to let go of an older powerhouse.

[Dreaper]

On 6/16/2017 at 11:20 AM, PCGuy_5960 said:

CPU benchmarks:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Gaming benchmarks:

  Reveal hidden contents

Overclocking:

They were able to achieve 4.7GHz at 1.25V, that's EXTREMELY impressive! (Without a delid)

Overclocked benchmarks:

  Reveal hidden contents

If the CPU was delidded, higher clocks would have been possible

Power consumption:

  Reveal hidden contents

Price/performance is not great, but, honestly, that's not unexpected

Source:http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/107017-intel-core-i9-7900x-14nm-skylake-x/

have they reviewed any of the skylake ones?

[Drak3]

Just now, Dreaper said:

have they reviewed any of the skylake ones?

The high core count X299 chips are Skylake-X. The mistakes quadcores are Kabylake-X.

[Dreaper]

Just now, Drak3 said:

The high core count X299 chips are Skylake-X. The mistakes quadcores are Kabylake-X.

i know that but i mean like hands on ones

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, Dreaper said:

i know that but i mean like hands on ones

I have no idea what you're asking.

If you're asking whether they tested SLX themselves in OP's link, yes. Kind of hard to get exact numbers without either testing it yourself, or someone else reviewing it and having the numbers you parrot. The second scenario isn't happening, as there were no reviews that could tell you what OP's link does, prior to it.

[Dreaper]

Just now, Drak3 said:

I have no idea what you're asking.

If you're asking whether they tested SLX themselves in OP's link, yes. Kind of hard to get exact numbers without either testing it yourself, or someone else reviewing it and having the numbers you parrot. The second scenario isn't happening, as there were no reviews that could tell you what OP's link does, prior to it.

Im asking if they tested the 6 core skylake x yet

[MageTank]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Assuming that all people running HEDT, or multiple GPU configs care about SLI. With some softwares being able to take advantage of multiple GPUs when not in SLI, having multiple GFX cards can be quite beneficial. Then there are those that don't fall in the intended audience but still benefit from platform perks, anyone running a SLI+Xfire for examp

For those people, specialty ASIC's exist that are beyond your standard platforms. There also exists entire platforms that go beyond "prosumer" that cover those needs. We even have boards with PEX8747 bridges to handle that if need be, though the latency makes it impractical for storage. I certainly hope the "softwares" you mention are not a reference to DX12 titles, as those are not exactly the best use case, given their odd negative scaling in performance. If you are talking mining, then the prosumer platform is entirely impractical, and the previous ASIC's I spoke of would be far more superior.

 

4 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

One doesn't need to RAID multiple disks to use multiple disks. If that were required, my system would be rocking a 2TB spinner. Also, I intend on using an x16 M.2 AiC if they become available for independent purchase, which would put me at 36 lanes from the CPU, seeing as my 1080 and 470 are running on x8 each, with the 950 Pro running on x4.

I am aware one does not need to raid multiple disks to use multiple disks, but then it begs the question of why own multiple PCIe drives outside of a raid, unless redundancy is the goal? If you need multiple fast drives, then using a single PCIE SSD as a cache for larger spinners is a far more elegant solution. Think Optane, but on a far more practical level. 

 

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Assuming that the use case doesn't benefit from high, speedy storage capacity, multiple GPUs, spec

Implying a use case that does, that isn't covered in the previous "solutions". PCIe lanes, like most other "resources", only matter when you do not have enough of them. There are creative ways of getting around needing a ton of lanes. I personally use my ram to write-defer from my SSD's (prolonging their lifespan) while using my SSD's to cache my spinners. This makes my HDD's feel as fast as SSD's. The beauty of it is, I need only a single SSD to do it. The larger the SSD, the bigger the block-level cache. With the advent of large PCIe SSD's (up to 2TB for the faster NVMe ones), one could cache an entire array of disks to make them faster. The multiple GPU argument only matters if it serves a practical need. Anything beyond 2-way SLI isn't practical from a gaming perspective (given SLI's poor scaling and lack of support beyond 2 cards these days, aside from shoddy DX12). If mining is indeed the goal, you don't want to waste the valuable power on running a high end platform. You either go with a custom ASIC like the top miners, or you buy a cheapo pentium and a board full of PCI slots, and you use risers. Mining on the enthusiast platform is a total waste of resources.

 

11 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Again, there's more than just core count and clock speed. IO is also something that is considered when looking at HEDT. Some people also recognize that their use case might not have perceivable benefits after a certain threshold. Things like gaming don't necessarily care about going from 3.9GHz Ryzen to 4.5GHz Kaby that much, and the cost delta won't go over well for those using HEDT because they have to, not want to.

You need not remind me that there is "more than just core count and clock speed". I've been saying that repeatedly, and in this very thread. That is beside the point. People still want faster cores. Whether or not they even need them is not the point. The fact that they want it means the demand will exist. We can keep trying to argue semantics over niche use cases, it all comes back to the most simplistic reason: someone somewhere wants more cores, and also wants them to remain fast. Whether or not there is a benefit is irrelevant. We still have consumers, both on the standard and enthusiast level that honestly believe you can fend off the future, by investing in more raw horsepower today. The problem is, we are not in a situation in which we lack the hardware, and more so in a situation that the software isn't utilizing what we already have. However, that's a tangent for another day.

 

17 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Here's the thing, you specifically called out the overused 'gaming content creator' use case. General rule of thumb isn't that they're building a system around what is the most powerful system that they can, unless they're LTT or JayzTwoCents. They're building it around a cost effective configuration that enables them to push their content in a timely manner, and is reliable.

When did I "call it out"? When I paint with a broad brush, it's to get the most coverage as I can. That means I have to include even the most niche scenarios in which someone might buy something. Gaming content creators do exist. I personally worked with one at my job, and he and I are good personal friends. While I don't expect the mass majority of people to share that same mindset, I expect some do. I am also friends with a few people on this very forum that spend whatever it costs to have the biggest, baddest systems they can. Some of which were in this very thread. 

 

20 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

For most people that need lifting power, instability is either a bit of a deal breaker, or they're pretty stupid.

Or, they work with the hands they were dealt. Yes, the CPU's in their default state tend to be unstable, but there are ways to fix that. Underclocking/increasing voltage, shutting down potentially damaged cores, etc. If that is still a concern, then they move on to better alternatives. You have no idea how many people still buy Westmere EP Dell blades just because of how cheap you can get a multi-socket Xeon (with ram). We are talking $500 for an entire 16c/32t platform that comes with 48GB of ram included in a complete blade package. Trying to beat that with consumer hardware is nearly impossible, even if you go the Xeon ES route. 

23 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I've got an artist friend socking an 8 core Sandy Xeon that he bought used when Haswell-EP first dropped, for around a 1/3 of the price that it was still going for new at the time. Would I ever consider that a reliable method of obtaining a budget lifter? Nope, it relies too much on someone letting go of their old chip, not a company trying to push product 24/7.

Not really. They are easy to find. Plenty of companies wholesaling entire inventories of older workstations/blades to make way for newer hardware. Hence the aforementioned westmere blades going so cheap. Yeah, they have a pretty hefty IPC deficiency compared to modern architectures, but for someone that needs heavy concurrent processing power, you can't beat the price:performance. Ryzen looks to be changing that potentially, but it's upfront investment will still be slightly larger. 

 

26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

The FX lineup was a pretty damn good for compiling, still is for the money. Hence why I said that in certain scenarios, it was a budget lifter. Otherwise, the best bet one has is relying on someone being generous (or stupid) enough to let go of an older powerhouse.

Well, I might be a special kind of stupid. I gave my 8320 and 990FXA UD3 away for free, lol. 

[THE_maverick]

3 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

That cpu is around $1000, the price of a entire system.

 

Both supports RAID on the SATA ports, just like every high-end chipset boards of the past. Why does Asus says CPU RAID? My guess they probably it's not software or hardware but from the motherboard?

And if you NEEDED it, you would be able to afford it.  To NEED it, you use it for working and it generates you money.  GAMING or HOBBYING is not a NEED.

[NumLock21]

9 minutes ago, THE_maverick said:

And if you NEEDED it, you would be able to afford it.  To NEED it, you use it for working and it generates you money.  GAMING or HOBBYING is not a NEED.

 

Some have budget limits, not every need, is affordable. 

[THE_maverick]

Just now, NumLock21 said:

 

Some have budget limits, not every need is affordable. 

If they can't afford it at 1000 dollars, they don't NEED it.

[NumLock21]

3 minutes ago, THE_maverick said:

If they can't afford it at 1000 dollars, they don't NEED it.

Some can afford it and yet their not stupid enough to waste 1k on a cpu.

 

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I certainly hope the "softwares" you mention are not a reference to DX12 titles, as those are not exactly the best use case, given their odd negative scaling in performance. If you are talking mining, then the prosumer platform is entirely impractical, and the previous ASIC's I spoke of would be far more superior.

GPU scaling, outside of a few games well optimized for multiple GPUs, has always been iffy for 2 GPUs in gaming, and basically shit for 3+. Then again, that requires SLI, while the softwares I'm talking about are things like animation software, video/photo editing soft, and number crunching softs like f@h. How much they benefit depends on the actual task and software support.

 

12 minutes ago, MageTank said:

I am aware one does not need to raid multiple disks to use multiple disks, but then it begs the question of why own multiple PCIe drives outside of a raid, unless redundancy is the goal? If you need multiple fast drives, then using a single PCIE SSD as a cache for larger spinners is a far more elegant solution. Think Optane, but on a far more practical level.

Local storage hierarchy is one answer. Personally, I'd rather have a drive just for games, a drive just for unedited footage, a drive for edited footage, a drive for Windows installations and high priority programs, a drive for libraries, a drive for movie ISOs.

That's not feasible in my 780T, if I also want to have a custom loop that can keep my 5930K adequately cooled at 4.6GHz+ and be somewhat quite. It's not feasible without going with an excessively large case like the 900D (not that I'm against that, I intend on making my own, no compromises behemoth), unless I use multiple NVMe drives, which is only really possible via addon card.

 

I know that I'm not the only person that feels like this. I've got two different friends that want to get into youtube (specifically game commentary), that only want to have to deal with one, no compromise system. Neither of them can really have a case the size of a 780T, so smaller form factor storage is quite an attractive prospect, and relieves some of the restriction that they'd face trying to use 2.5" or 3.5" SSDs.

32 minutes ago, MageTank said:

PCIe lanes, like most other "resources", only matter when you do not have enough of them. There are creative ways of getting around needing a ton of lanes. I personally use my ram to write-defer from my SSD's (prolonging their lifespan) while using my SSD's to cache my spinners.

Yes, and my particular board choice prevents me from having enough lanes. I can only use 3 GPUs total, and that denies me my USB 3.0 AiC. Not something that bothers me much right now, as the plan always was 1 NVidia GPU, 2 high perf AMD GPUs, each as x8 for a total of 24 lanes, as well as NVMe storage, with a preferable minimum of 2 x4 NVMe drives, a 256GB for OS installations and high priority programs (the 950 Pro), and a higher cap for everything else (although I use physical drives as a means of storage management, so having a x16 card that gives me 4 extra M.2s would be nice, especially from a cable management standpoint). Can't do that on my current board, can't do it with a 5820K, can't do it with 6/8c SLX. I'm at 20 right now.

The Gaming Pro Carbon I use now, was always mean as a filler board, same as my G1 Gaming 1070, and to be used for another system down the line when I upgrade Project Enza again.

My scenario is unrealistic for the reasoning behind it. I'm particular about my system, about my methodology on it. I don't expect people to follow my ideal system to the 't,' but I do expect that an option be present for those that are somewhat budget restricted and looking to construct an HEDT system that does need more lanes, but not more cores. If someone can benefit from having 4 GPUs running at x8, they're stuck spending more or buying older hardware (not that I'm against that, Haswell is still an extremely viable platform for most people).

43 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Gaming content creators do exist.

Trusty me, I know. For some, the content creation and the gaming aspect are one and the same. Markiplier, JackSepticEye, etc. prove that much. It's one of the potential roles that I want to be able to adapt to at any momentm namely if my friends start getting serious about game comentaries.

Others, like my artist friend, content creation comes first. Gaming, and subsequent performance, takes a back seat. His 8 core Xeon, he chose because he got it for $700, and at the time, diverse multitasking was more important to him than having somewhat higher single core perf. Though, it's fun giving him shit for having a xeon 8c under a custom loop, and my system matched his in multicore at stock.

49 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Well, I might be a special kind of stupid. I gave my 8320 and 990FXA UD3 away for free, lol. 

Only if you do a lot of compiling in Linux. I said that it was good in certain scenarios, not all of them.

[TahoeDust]

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet...

 

https://twitter.com/hardwarecanucks/status/876162292139909120

[leadeater]

6 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Who the fuck knows lol.  It's just a software licensing thing so it can go anyway they want it to.  Linux gets all this shit for free without the key.

I would never use motherboard RAID either way, Windows or Linux. But yea at least Linux can boot off an mdadm array.

[leadeater]

2 hours ago, THE_maverick said:

If they can't afford it at 1000 dollars, they don't NEED it.

Some people need food but cannot afford it. Some people need a car but cannot afford one, people lose jobs over that sort of thing.

 

Money and need are totally different things so I have no idea why you are trying to equate them as mutually inclusive when they are not.

[AnonymousGuy]

2 hours ago, leadeater said:

Some people need food but cannot afford it. Some people need a car but cannot afford one, people lose jobs over that sort of thing.

 

Money and need are totally different things so I have no idea why you are trying to equate them as mutually inclusive when they are not.

Do I need to spend $2k on a CPU that's going to idle 90% of the time, no.  But I want it!

 

[leadeater]

14 minutes ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Do I need to spend $2k on a CPU that's going to idle 90% of the time, no.  But I want it!

Ah yes the age old problem, I want therefore I need. I'm very guilty of that lol.

[Taf the Ghost]

4 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet...

 

https://twitter.com/hardwarecanucks/status/876162292139909120

That's going to make Monday's Reviews a real mess.

 

On the gaming point that came up, 7700k is better than any of the Ryzen 5 or 7 when you're on a 1080 or 1080 Ti @ 1080p. Above that in resolution or a lower GPU and it doesn't matter. Because of Nvidia's 6 thread DX11 driver system, the upcoming Coffee Lake 6c parts will be the best Gaming CPUs.  Unless RX Vega can spread cleanly over more than 6 cores. 

[TahoeDust]

Well...I pre-ordered my Asus Strix X299-E.  It was my original cut instinct when all the boards were coming out at Computex.  I figure if I start reading bad things about it, I will just cancel and go with something else.

[PCGuy_5960]

12 hours ago, Dreaper said:

have they reviewed any of the skylake ones?

This is a Skylake CPU. If you want to see benchmarks for the 6 and 8 core CPUs wait for more reviews

[NumLock21]

6 hours ago, TahoeDust said:

Well...I pre-ordered my Asus Strix X299-E.  It was my original cut instinct when all the boards were coming out at Computex.  I figure if I start reading bad things about it, I will just cancel and go with something else.

You'll always read something bad about it, no matter what board you buy. I got boards with 3 eggs ratings and there were no problems with it. Trust yourself and buy the board you want.

[OriAr]

https://videocardz.com/70338/intel-core-i7-7740x-overclockability

Has this been posted yet?

 

Looks like the 7740X could get to 5 GHz on 1.21V on a good unit 

 

[MageTank]

Just now, OriAr said:

https://videocardz.com/70338/intel-core-i7-7740x-overclockability

Has this been posted yet?

 

Looks like the 7740X could get to 5 GHz on 1.21V on a good unit 

 

Quote

Based on 100 samples, the Core i7 7740X should hit 5.0 GHz at 1.205 V. In the worst case scenario it requires 1.341V to achieve this frequency. Some samples will hit higher frequencies (5.1-5.2 GHz), but those require higher voltage.

Talk about losing the lottery, lol. That is a massive voltage window for the same frequency. Don't think i've ever seen it that bad before. 

[PCGuy_5960]

8 minutes ago, OriAr said:

https://videocardz.com/70338/intel-core-i7-7740x-overclockability

Has this been posted yet?

 

Looks like the 7740X could get to 5 GHz on 1.21V on a good unit 

 

Nope, post it in tech news if you want

[done12many2]

12 minutes ago, MageTank said:

Talk about losing the lottery, lol. That is a massive voltage window for the same frequency. Don't think i've ever seen it that bad before. 

 

Considering that those are stock samples without delid, those numbers are actually impressive compared to current 7700k CPUs.  I might have to grab some of them too.