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Microsoft still commited to Windows 10 Mobile despite what sensationalist journalists are saying

AlTech
2 hours ago, alexyy said:

Windows mobile? No thanks, I want something that works.

From the curiosity, I wonder if you ever actually used it? :) 

 

I have only used mobile on win 7.1 and to me, it worked just perfect. When I moved to android I had better spec phone on paper, but it was more buggy and laggy than windows phone (and WP had shittier spec on paper).

 

Windows Phone 10 however, sounds like a lot of sensational apps don't work properly, I agree they need to fix it, but I still think, that they are not wasting time/money doing this, I have a feeling something good will come out of this in the future.

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10 minutes ago, bigneo said:

From the curiosity, I wonder if you ever actually used it? :) 

 

I have only used mobile on win 7.1 and to me, it worked just perfect. When I moved to android I had better spec phone on paper, but it was more buggy and laggy than windows phone (and WP had shittier spec on paper).

 

Windows Phone 10 however, sounds like a lot of sensational apps don't work properly, I agree they need to fix it, but I still think, that they are not wasting time/money doing this, I have a feeling something good will come out of this in the future.

all of the built in apps have yet to fail on me, the most annoying thing about the built in apps is that they are windows store apps, so you get a pop up every so often if your have yet to rate the app. 

 

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`'°«„¸¸„»°'´¸„»°'´`'°«„¸Scientia Potentia est  ¸„»°'´`'°«„¸`'°«„¸¸„»°'´

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Windows Phone can go die a slow and agonizing death until Microsoft learns that in order to succeed, they should offer something better than the competition instead of something just as good (or even worse, as in this case).

 

The whole situation around WP is a taste of their own medicine for MS - Linux suffers from the same chicken-and-egg problem regarding application support because of Windows' dominance in the PC area.

 

I really hope that we'll be off Windows towards Linux big time before WP even has a chance to spread again, but looking at the numbers, this shouldn't be too big of a problem. :)

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Oh boy, where to start.

 

Here is my problem. So, for context, I came from an Android phone. I have used Android. Great OS, I don't think I need to explain any of this.

Now, a bit over a year ago, I got an opportunity to get a phone of my choosing for free. I didn't really use apps on my Android phone, I was mostly wanting the best rear camera, as I always wanted a good point and shoot camera (they don't make those anymore, it is DSLRs or a meh point and shoot camera). Hold and behold, the Lumia 950 XL, it has everything that I seeked, and I knew that Windows powered phone won't magically sale, but seeing Microsoft putting heavy effort into the OS, had all the apps I needed, tested the phone OS under Virtual Machine, and I decided to get it.. as in "possibly the last Windows phone, I want to experience it". I do know that a lot of ideas are taken by Android and Apple from it, so it does at least something right.

 

I got it (with the continuum dock). The phone hardware is amazing. The heatsink/pipe they put in the phone actually solves the serious fluctuating performances of the Snapdragon 810 chip that the phone sports. I can do extended 4K recording, and the phone is delivers it, contentiously, smoothly, as it should.... no getting choppy because the chip overheats and throttles. I can take a great number of pictures continuously without having the performance drop. Exactly what I was seeking. The 3 button layout: Vol Up, Power, Vol Down, looks strange at first, and did need some getting used to, but it solved all the issues that Linus and many phone users complain on Android with the button position. You can clearly identify each of them, and you have no other button that will be pressed as you hold your phone.And the 2-step camera button, with quick start camera feature when you press it, is amazing. The phone hardware is overall excellent, very smartly designed.

 

But that is hardware, hows the OS.

The OS is seriously impressive. It has/had more functionality than non-rooted Android, in terms of privacy options per apps, and lots of different things here and there.. I am not doing a review. It is already too long, just to get my actual point. Anyway, it's great, and it has a lot of things that I didn't expect the OS to have, due to miss information being said on the web on "how crappy Windows phone is". I can't comment on Windows Phone 7 or 8. But 10 Mobile is seriously impressive.

 

The live tiles, and the interface makes me wish that Microsoft just takes Android, and seriously mod it, because the GUI of Windows 10 Mobile is simply amazing. I can't go back to Android. I just can't. The interface is THAT GOOD! Plus the integration between your phone and your PC with being able to send and receive SMS messages on your desktop/laptop, OneDrive integration, Photos instantly accessible on your other system as you take them, native file explorer, etc.. really turns your phone into an extension of your PC. It is just amazing. And you don't have to really do anything to get it up and running in sync between your systems.

 

But i want to go back to Android. And the problem is not because of the apps. I still don't miss them, the problem is the the now basics features that the phone is lacking, and the the OS development, which started super well, has been pathetically slow. And Microsoft is stuck in this loop: "We can't advertise the phone, because it is not selling well... because it is not selling well, let's cut focus and resources... What can we do to push sales? Advertise!... but we can't advertise the phone, because it not selling well...." That is how it feels like it, as a user.

 

You see this serious passion, you see this serious potential to take over the market when you use this phone. But, Microsoft is treating the smartphone market as some fad thing that will disappear by its own tomorrow, and just want to be in, and that desktop PCs is the wave of the future. The CEO can say what they want, and the engineers can put all their passion that they want, but every managers in between, are stuck in the 90's.

 

Now, one could argue, that Microsoft changed plans for the phone, and now the Surface team is picking it up, and some crazy jaw dropping hardware will come out of it. And the company wants to be ready with an OS that will be competitive to modern Android, with features like: car integration (Android Auto), excellent Bluetooth support, multiple window support, better Continuum, etc. But that is not what is happening. Bluetooth has not been touched and still has trouble with many popular devices. It has strange issues like, if you do a call while connected to Bluetooth, everything works as expected. But if you receive a call, the caller can't hear you, and you can't hear them. You have to hit the Speakerphone option. Like come on! This has been an issue since day 1. Music works, but turn-by-turn navigation doesn't work over Bluetooth... unless you pick the option to send the instruction as phone calls. That works... I guess... Edge has no plugin support, not even a home page.. not even the blank page follows the themes settings (Light/Dark). And it is all these things everywhere that just ruins the device experience. THings are said "to be coming", and then the cancel button is quickly hit.

 

What did Creators update brought to Windows 10 Mobile users, beside all the apps being updated as they are updated for Windows 10 (thank god for UWP):

 - Bluetooth connection is now the same as Windows 10, and not Windows phone 8 legacy panel that opened,

 - New Wireless connection panel to fit Windows 10 Mobile look, and not the Windows phone 8 legacy panel.

 - New UWP rendering engine (also made for Windows 10), and back-end optimizations making slower phone run better than before.

 - Edge doesn't reload page as you switch tabs

 - Edge is faster at rendering a loaded page, when you go back or forward. But not instant as it should be.

 - Share button icon changed

 

Aaaaaaannnd That is about it.

ENJOY!

 

Wow, what a focus! What commitment! Will really impress users to the OS.

Please. A joke! That is all.

 

With such "commitment" and speed, do you really think they'll have a compelling phone by the end of the year? Do you think companies would be interested in Windows 10 Mobile for Continuum, when now Samsung has a solution now, where you can actually multi-task, and have an actual start menu, and can actually put files and icons on your desktop... like you would expect, and not this "Here is a video showing this new Continuum experience that is the Samsung solution that they have now... enjoy.. you'll never hear a word of it again...Like our car integration we showed back in 2014 LOLz! You really think it was released?"

 

And then the company is split on behaviors. On one side you have this mentality that everything uses the Windows 10... "One Core", XBox, Windows, Windows 10 Mobile, IoT, HoloLens, etc. Fantastic! But then the other side "Car integration with Windows 10 Mobile phone? What a stupid stupid idea... it should be a completely its own OS by itself, started from scratch to face slow development, and lots of bugs that will affect the consumer and have the 2-3 auto maker use our new solution on select cars on select market as a triaout a bad experience, not helped with our limited resources". Smmmmmaaaarrrtt.

 

But but but GoodBytes... new job....

New job? Really new job? Or replacing position from people that moved to other position within the company, or found another job somewhere else? That is the question.

 

 

So what I think about Windows 10 Mobile?

 - It is an amazing phone. You have to try it! The ecosystem is amazing if you are open to switch to Microsoft one fully (Groove Music for music streaming, OneDrive, etc.), in fact, you pretty much don't have a choice. You do have a Spotify though.

 

 - It is also a bad phone that doesn't reflect the advancement in mobility of today nor tomorrow.

 

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5 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Windows Phone 8.1 wasn't too intuitive but Windows 10 Mobile improved upon that.

From a tech reviewer who loves underdog platforms 

 Windows 10 Mobile was riddled with bugs at launch. I don't think this is a good PR that Microsoft is looking for. No wonder sales figures are depressing. They launched their flagship phone that is exclusive on AT&T which doesn't have support for the frequency bands of big red not to mention they used a crappy processor namely the Snapdragon 810. How many companies deploy Windows Phones to their employees anyway at this moment? 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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50 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

So what I think about Windows 10 Mobile?

 - It is an amazing phone. You have to try it! The ecosystem is amazing if you are open to switch to Microsoft one fully (Groove Music for music streaming, OneDrive, etc.), in fact, you pretty much don't have a choice. You do have a Spotify though.

 

 - It is also a bad phone that doesn't reflect the advancement in mobility of today nor tomorrow.

I once lusted for the Lumia 1020 in bumblebee yellow.

 

Too bad it used a way older SoC (Snapdragon S4 Pro) that is struggling to do post processing of the 34/38 mp photos, auto focus was slow, opening the pro cam app from standby was slow and it didn't received the latest WM10 update. 

 

Right now, the fate of Windows 10 Mobile is a dark horse. 

There is more that meets the eye
I see the soul that is inside

 

 

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I still hope to see a new W10 mobile flagship, I've tried Lumia 950XL and it was really nice overall. Like the UI though would like some changes and sure bug fixes. As far as apps it definitely needs better support for it, so hopefully it gets. 
Happy with my Galaxy S6 with 7.0 now.

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14 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

The biggest issue I find is that Microsoft isn't pushing Windows 10 Mobile to all eligible Windows Phone 8.1 devices and so the consumer base is split in a way which causes problems.

I thought that "no fragmentation" was supposed to be an advantage of Windows Phone over Android 9_9

 

14 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Apart from app issues (which are being fixed)

Apps re-launching as UWP apps =/= new apps. It's the same app as before, but now universal! Wow! Apps isn't even the biggest problem for Windows Phone anymore anyway, the biggest issue is that no OEM is interested in making phones running it anymore. It's not worth building a device nobody will buy, running software with 0.86% market share.

 

11 hours ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

How could anyone think MS is abandoning its mobile OS? They have just released a "Creators Update" for it.

 

 

 

 

:P 

The best part is the Creators Update brings nothing new to their phone platform, it's focused entirely on the desktop :P 

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2 minutes ago, Daring said:

The best part is the Creators Update brings nothing new to their phone platform, it's focused entirely on the desktop :P 

My joke is that I treat Windows 10, all of it, as a mobile OS, and Windows 7 as their last desktop OS.

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9 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

The live tiles, and the interface makes me wish that Microsoft just takes Android, and seriously mod it, because the GUI of Windows 10 Mobile is simply amazing.

I remember finding this Android launcher that brings the Windows 10 UI to Android, including live tiles (via the notifications API). Can't remember what it was called, and it's not publicly released yet, but that should help ease the transition of going back to Android from Windows Phone.

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The problem: Microsoft is "committed" to Windows 10 Mobile in the same way it's always been committed: that is, it's only a half-hearted effort, a sideshow at best.

 

Think of the shift in focus that happened at Apple after the iPhone.  Before then, the company was still primarily known for computers and MP3 players.  But when it pledged itself to mobile, it gave that segment its full attention: it devoted all the team members and money needed to make the iPhone a success.  It's now primarily known as the iPhone company, because the market is just that big and important.

 

Microsoft never recognized this need to change priority.  It has always treated Windows phones as secondary -- they're companions to your Windows PC.  This was particularly bad under Ballmer (who saw desktop Windows as the be-all, end-all of his business), but it's still true today.  The company regularly gives its mobile team barely enough resources to get things done, and doesn't really push hard to offer devices that are cutting edge.  The only real improvement is that Nadella is intelligent enough to have realistic expectations and acknowledge that the days of the Microsoft monopoly are long gone.

 

For Microsoft to really make a resurgence, it would need to become a phone-oriented company.  Hire hundreds (if not thousands) of mobile-focused team members -- even if it means spending billions.  Bend over backwards to launch the latest technology as soon as it's new, not half a year later.  Develop in-house phones so good that they stand on their own merits, not just because they're cheap or run some familiar Windows apps.  And don't perpetuate that wildly inconsistent strategy from the Nokia days where you never knew if there would be a replacement for your phone on your network of choice.  Offer a similar flagship on as many carriers as possible, and do it every year without exception.  Until these things happen, Apple and Google are going to keep eating Microsoft's lunch in mobile... and even then, any shake-up would take years.

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2 hours ago, Daring said:

I remember finding this Android launcher that brings the Windows 10 UI to Android, including live tiles (via the notifications API). Can't remember what it was called, and it's not publicly released yet, but that should help ease the transition of going back to Android from Windows Phone.

Yea, but it was garbage. It is really not the same thing (not to mention it didn't look good). Apps needs to support live tiles, and while it is defacto on Windows Phone, it isn't on Android as it is not part of the OS.

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Just now, GoodBytes said:

Yea, but it was garbage, it is really not the same thing. Apps needs to support live tiles, and while it is defacto on Windows Phone, it isn't on Android as it is not part of the OS.

Not quite the launcher I'm thinking of, mostly because it's not even on Google Play yet. I personally haven't tried it out, I have yet to find a launcher that can replace Nova for me, but hey. If it helps ease the transition back to Android, right?

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5 minutes ago, Daring said:

Not quite the launcher I'm thinking of, mostly because it's not even on Google Play yet. I personally haven't tried it out, I have yet to find a launcher that can replace Nova for me, but hey. If it helps ease the transition back to Android, right?

I have my eyes on Microsoft Arrow actually. I don't have my Android phone anymore to give it a spin, but from screenshots it looks really nice. And that is on the play store (no phone rooting, or anything). Well reviewed as well.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.launcher&hl=en

 

I just love its clean glass look. Sure it doesn't have live tiles, but at least it looks real nice, and you can jump to app quickly like on Windows phone.

 

And this started from Microsoft Garage. Meaning employees worked on it on their own time. Shows you the talent that Microsoft has on its hands... it is a shame the company doesn't know how to utilize it properly, beside some teams here and there, like Surface team for an example.

 

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Just now, GoodBytes said:

I have my eyes on Microsoft Arrow actually. I don't have my Android phone anymore to give it a spin, but from screenshots it looks really nice. And that is on the play store (no phone rooting, or anything). Well reviewed as well.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.launcher&hl=en

 

I just love its clean glass look. Sure it doesn't have live tiles, but at least it looks real nice, and you can jump to app quickly like on Windows phone.

 

And this started from Microsoft Garage. Meaning employees worked on it on their own time. Shows you the talent that Microsoft has on its hands... it is a shame the company doesn't know how to utilize it properly.

 

Oh, yeah. I've heard Arrow Launcher is really good for Redmond-izing your Android phone. Same with the other usual suspects, like Cortana, Outlook and Onedrive.

 

But yeah, the fact that t was made by employees in their spare time, rather than as a full-time project, is really impressive. If I get another Android device, I'll need to try it out.

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On 31/03/2017 at 6:47 PM, alexyy said:

Windows mobile? No thanks, I want something that works.

Don't be a dick, it works perfectly fine. Sure, the apps are lacking - but that's it. It does everything android or iOS can do. 

This is what I think of Pre-Ordering video games: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp98SH3vW2Y

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Also, I just wanna say.

 

Remember when Microsoft said they're committed to PC gaming, then proceeded to only release their games as Windows 10 exclusives?

I'll believe that they're committed to Windows 10 Mobile when I see it. Them releasing their own version of an Android phone doesn't really seem to show that commitment; rather, an admission of failure.

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Ooh well, that's good news. I loathe Android with a passion scarcely imaginable, so if WP were to die, my only option would be to overpay massively on an iOS device...

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There's nothing wrong with Windows Mobile, other than lack of apps. I personally like that I continually get updates and it is much more secure, unlike Android. And updates don't degrade the performance and isn't overpriced, like Apple.  It also has pretty much the same customization as other phones, so you can make it look how you like, and it is pretty fast and has decent battery life.  For someone who doesn't need a million apps for every little thing it's the perfect device IMO.

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17 minutes ago, Speaker1264 said:

There's nothing wrong with Windows Mobile, other than lack of apps. I personally like that I continually get updates and it is much more secure, unlike Android. And updates don't degrade the performance and isn't overpriced, like Apple.  It also has pretty much the same customization as other phones, so you can make it look how you like, and it is pretty fast and has decent battery life.  For someone who doesn't need a million apps for every little thing it's the perfect device IMO.

Well, let's be honest. It is more secure because the market share is extremely small. But yes, it is more secure. As for performance... well Microsoft did up the min requirement specs from Windows 10 Mobile original release and Anniversary update, making many phone stuck with the old version. And even initially they said all Windows Phone 8 will get to be upgraded to Windows 10 Mobile, then it turned out to be not the case. So, if you have a lower end phone, you might get support soon.

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2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

As for performance... well Microsoft did up the min requirement specs from Windows 10 Mobile original release and Anniversary update, making many phone stuck with the old version. And even initially they said all Windows Phone 8 will get to be upgraded to Windows 10 Mobile, then it turned out to be not the case.

I still remember the days when "no fragmentation" was an advantage of Windows Phone over Android. sigh

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1 hour ago, Squirrel724 said:

Microsoft may be committed to Windows 10 Mobile but an OS can't survive without developer support.

And I don't see where that developer support is going to come from when there is practically zero ROI for the software development. The company I work for recently developed new versions of our mobile app. Before doing so, we checked the operating systems that visited our website and forum. Less than half of one percent of mobile devices that had visited the site in the last year or so were running a Windows Phone OS. Given that market share among our customers and sales partners, why would we ever even contemplate investing time and money into a platform that has no users?

 

The hardware in the devices is great. The few times I've had a Windows Phone in my hands I've quite liked it. But I wouldn't buy one. I'm invested in the Android ecosystem. I have Office 365 on my Android phone. I can have outlook on my Android phone. Heck, I can even put Cortana on it and install the Bing search app if I want to (first party microsoft apps for android). I just haven't seen a USP for Windows Phone that would make me feel like it would be worth changing from Android to Windows.

 

As for the claim that Microsoft is taking Windows Phone seriously, and is committed to its future? How many times have we heard that exact same line about gaming and Windows? How many times have we been disappointed or puzzled at the approach chosen by Microsoft? I can't take Microsoft at their word anymore. I don't trust them enough to do so. I trust that Google and Apple are in it for the long haul. I don't get that feeling about Windows Phone.

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1 hour ago, Fetzie said:

And I don't see where that developer support is going to come from when there is practically zero ROI for the software development. The company I work for recently developed new versions of our mobile app. Before doing so, we checked the operating systems that visited our website and forum. Less than half of one percent of mobile devices that had visited the site in the last year or so were running a Windows Phone OS. Given that market share among our customers and sales partners, why would we ever even contemplate investing time and money into a platform that has no users?

 

The hardware in the devices is great. The few times I've had a Windows Phone in my hands I've quite liked it. But I wouldn't buy one. I'm invested in the Android ecosystem. I have Office 365 on my Android phone. I can have outlook on my Android phone. Heck, I can even put Cortana on it and install the Bing search app if I want to (first party microsoft apps for android). I just haven't seen a USP for Windows Phone that would make me feel like it would be worth changing from Android to Windows.

Well your  Windows 10 Mobile company app, would be a UWP app (Universal Apps), and that means that your company app would have been also Windows 10 compatible, as that is the cool thing about UWP apps. They are the desktop apps, just scaled into a phone screen aspect ratio. So you target both. Also, for Windows 10 Mobile devices, Edge, when set to Desktop mode, it identify itself as: "Edge on Windows 10". Only when set to Mobile, it says: "Edge on Windows Phone 10" or "Edge on Windows 10 Mobile" depending on how the web site read the web browser user agent.. As Edge is a fully capable web browser, most of its users are probably using Desktop mode to get full web site experience.

 

HOWEVER, I am not claiming your stats are wrong. On the contrary, there is an undeniable evidence that the market share of Windows 10 Mobile user is a niche market, to put it nicely. What I mentioned was more of a "fun fact" (same for the rest of this post, I am not here to convince anyone, I am just doing a discussion).  But, a UWP app would allow you to provide a rich and responsive experience, high-DPI aware, multi-touch ready, and pen ready from the get go, allowing users using Windows 10 convertibles, desktop, laptop and Windows 10 powered tablets to use your app. I don't know what your company does, not your marketshare, so this consideration might or might not apply. For example, if your app is for example, some inventory system, where normally you have staff with a Windows powered tablet and some web form that they need to use to complete things to do inventory, a UWP app would be a very much a good choice to go with. Just an example, Something else to consider, you can also target multiple platform using Xamarin. Now you can make 1 app, and be for any platform. Just do the GUI. Well Xamariin has this GUI code for all OS, but it is only fine for very simple apps. It gets buggy or limiting if you push thing. Better have custom GUIs for each platform. This limits development costs, and allows you to take advantage for visibility on Windows 10 and Windows 10 Mobile store, especially that it is not jam pack of apps, making your buried, all by limiting any dev cost to mostly a GUI, especially if your app is targeted at a broad user base. With a push that you have a Windows 10 app, with a link to download, you should get some users enjoy your app not only on their Android/iOS phone, but also on their PCs, and have their stuff in sync even (another nice sales pitch to get people to use the Windows 10 app).

 

Now, if you fire up the Store in Windows 10, you can see that it has apps, most of these apps (definitively all the big ones, like: Facebook, Messenger, Twitter, Slack, Telegram, Instagram, Pandora, Spotify (well that is Windows phone 8 app, but works on Windows 10 Mobile, but not in the Store, as they have the Win32 app), VLC, Fitbit, Dropbox, Viber, etc. are all on Windows 10 Mobile as they are UWP apps. This is because within those companies you have a certain fan base, and are updated. Microsoft is very lucky on that front, this probably because of the device uniqueness. Like Blackberry never got this kind of support and it had a bigger market share than Windows Phone, when apps where popular on smartphones, and whatever apps it had was nothing more than 1/4 baked. Because of this, Microsoft is lucky enough to have a good starting ground, whenever they get serious and push the platform. But i don't think they know they know what they have, else they would have already jump on it.

 

Quote

As for the claim that Microsoft is taking Windows Phone seriously, and is committed to its future?

You should have just stop there. 'cause... see bellow.

 

Quote

How many times have we heard that exact same line about gaming and Windows? How many times have we been disappointed or puzzled at the approach chosen by Microsoft? I can't take Microsoft at their word anymore.

Well, Microsoft did deliver this. Last year E3 was: "XBox One and Windows 10 exclusive" over and over and over again... pretty much everything they showed. Then you have the Game DVR feature in Windows 10 that is pretty decent and super easy to use, you have streaming XBox One to your PC which apparently works great (I don't have an XBox one to test), you have now have game Broadcasting to Beam service, with webcam overlay support, and on your side you can see your chat, which overlays on top of the game (everything is movable, and again 1 click solution), you have DirectX12, you have Game Mode in Windows 10 as well, just to get every bit of performance to keep steady frame rates. You have Xbox 360 and XBox One game pad controller, if you are part of the XBox ecosystem, you have the XBox app on your PC so you can chat with your XBox friend there, and setup matches and stuff. You can take game screen shots as well, and you have cross buy.

 

While a few of these things are XBox One related to some fashion, it is still pretty neat. You can't say that this is a disappointment.

Now yes, all of this appeared thanks to the new direction of the company, passing from a locked down, each system apart mentality, to having an ecosystem, but a nice catch up so far.

 

But yes, I don't see Windows 10 Mobile getting any push from Microsoft so far. Yes, it has weekly new builds, and yes all apps gets frequently updated with new features and improvements. But, the apps gets updated because they do so on Windows 10, because they are UWP apps. So one affects the other... which is great for Windows 10 Mobile user, but not really on purpose. As Windows 10 Mobile weekly builds.... well, there isn't much. You have some stuff from Windows 10 arriving to Windows 10 Mobile, mostly due to the "One Core" thing, but to me, it feels like the Windows 10 Mobile is a small team. I am sure they do incredible work daily, and do their best. But due to the team size, they can't deliver new features. New features take long to arrive. Will that change with the development of Redstone 3 (estimated release: end of year)? I doubt it.

 

 

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