AMD Ryzen benchmarks against 7700K and 6900K

[Prysin]

47 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

If I agreed with you more often, then we'd both be wrong so many times.

 

 

Like always, it's better to set your expectations low and be pleasantly surprised than to put your expectations too high and get disappointed.

It seems like some people are expecting 6900K performance for 6700K price and those will most certainly be disappointed.

this is why i say ZEN will flop. The hype is too damn high. Even if it by a miracle DID match the 6900k at 6700k prices, people would just bitch and whine that it didnt beat the 7700k in single core or that it didnt have as good upgrade path or that it didnt solve world hunger and end the global terrorism.

 

AMD cannot win, they will sell alot of products, but it wont save their bottom line. Only ZEN+ has a slight hope of being a "success". As the destroyed expectations of ZEN should make people see that ZEN+ is AMDs rise to competitiveness. That is where they will have the performance to back up their prices. But ZEN? or RyZen, that is just an attempt at catching up, and they are definetively going to fall way short.

[LAwLz]

5 minutes ago, Prysin said:

this is why i say ZEN will flop. The hype is too damn high. Even if it by a miracle DID match the 6900k at 6700k prices, people would just bitch and whine that it didnt beat the 7700k in single core or that it didnt have as good upgrade path or that it didnt solve world hunger and end the global terrorism.

 

AMD cannot win, they will sell alot of products, but it wont save their bottom line. Only ZEN+ has a slight hope of being a "success". As the destroyed expectations of ZEN should make people see that ZEN+ is AMDs rise to competitiveness. That is where they will have the performance to back up their prices. But ZEN? or RyZen, that is just an attempt at catching up, and they are definetively going to fall way short.

I have a 6800K system ordered right now, but because of a shortage of parts it is expected to ship in the middle of January.

I am thinking of canceling it and wait for Zen, but since I ordered it on Black Friday with some pretty nice deals I'd rather not.

 

So what do you think? Do you think Zen will be a better buy than the 6800K? Keeping in mind that I am saving about 100-150 USD from the deals I have already locked in with the 6800K.

I still got a week or two to cancel my order and I am really torn on this.

[leadeater]

3 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I have a 6800K system ordered right now, but because of a shortage of parts it is expected to ship in the middle of January.

I am thinking of canceling it and wait for Zen, but since I ordered it on Black Friday with some pretty nice deals I'd rather not.

 

So what do you think? Do you think Zen will be a better buy than the 6800K? Keeping in mind that I am saving about 100-150 USD from the deals I have already locked in with the 6800K.

I still got a week or two to cancel my order and I am really torn on this.

I would go have a look closely at the new AMD chipset and the motherboards coming out, even if the Zen CPU is better or just as good as the 6800K the platform as a whole is a bit of a wild card. How will the SATA controllers stack up, whats the firmware going to be like, NVMe booting fully stable etc. I'm as much of an optimist as anyone should be but the one thing you can count on right now is the stability of the Intel platform you have ordered.

[Space Reptile]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Do you think Zen will be a better buy than the 6800K?

maybe .

 

we need a number , all we know is that its below 1k , and that might be 799

I really hope its 499 , and I hope it beats similar priced intel chips , looking that that "leak"

and the suggestion that that "leak" uses an older chip (e stepping instead of f , clocked lower , lower boost clock etc) that already beats the 7700k I hope the shelf grade silicone will beat the 800 and 900 series aswell or atleast be tied / just below

 

we need official numbers before we start bulding pcs , its speculation now and non of this is confirmed

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

I have a 6800K system ordered right now, but because of a shortage of parts it is expected to ship in the middle of January.

I am thinking of canceling it and wait for Zen, but since I ordered it on Black Friday with some pretty nice deals I'd rather not.

 

So what do you think? Do you think Zen will be a better buy than the 6800K? Keeping in mind that I am saving about 100-150 USD from the deals I have already locked in with the 6800K.

I still got a week or two to cancel my order and I am really torn on this.

no, i think ZEN will be a complete disaster when compared to X299 or even X99.

 

We already have strong rumors suggesting even RyZen will be dual channel on consumer side. Whilst there has been rumors of AMD validating a octa-channel setup for their enterprise side.

Meaning, despite having DDR4, the bandwidth availible to ZEN is notwhere near X99. We are talking a bog standard 128bit bus vs 256bit. And since both use the same clock speed RAM, it is obvious which one is going to be better for enthusiasts doing pro-sumer 3D modeling, rendering or CAD work.

 

We also have conflicting rumors that certain parts of the Excavator architecture would be recycled. Especially the IMC has been rumored to be loosely based on the old Excavator IMC. Which is a fucking disaster. If it is true that ZEN has a IMC anywhere near as terrible as the one in Excavator, then trust me when i say, they might aswell used DDR3.

 

i also don't think their idea of a SoC being much to brag about. for a APU system, ITX build? laptops? GREAT! it would further help simplify OEM motherboard designs. Thus allowing both real-estate and time for OEM motherboard designers to put more features onto their boards, like dual mSATA Wifi cards for MIMO support, or even three or four RAID M.2... They would atleast gain enough space for tracing to do that.

 

In the end, ZEN isnt going to save AMD, they will break even or turn a profit in 2017. 2018 they will gain profitability. But their next loan debt is due Jan 1st 2019. And ill be damned if they will have the cash at hand to do that. Because if they are to hit that target. ZEN, VEGA, NAVI and ZEN+ must not only bring them to profitability, it must conquer a massive amount of total market share in all segments, and i simply do not see it happen. Not at this pace.

 

VEGA 10, aka 490, is set to be shot down by the 1080Ti. Which will undercut it at price and hurt margins.

We might see a stark drop in prices for the 1070 and 1080 in the next 2 months, allowing for Nvidia to further undercut VEGA 10.

Volta will launch next fall, and it will give Nvidia another 15-20% flat boost at the lowest, 25% at the highest. So the likelihood of AMD re-entering the "enthusaist grade" GPU market in the next year or two is unlikely.

 

 

[Vode]

11 minutes ago, Prysin said:

no, i think ZEN will be a complete disaster when compared to X299 or even X99.

 

We already have strong rumors suggesting even RyZen will be dual channel on consumer side. Whilst there has been rumors of AMD validating a octa-channel setup for their enterprise side.

Meaning, despite having DDR4, the bandwidth availible to ZEN is notwhere near X99. We are talking a bog standard 128bit bus vs 256bit. And since both use the same clock speed RAM, it is obvious which one is going to be better for enthusiasts doing pro-sumer 3D modeling, rendering or CAD work.

 

We also have conflicting rumors that certain parts of the Excavator architecture would be recycled. Especially the IMC has been rumored to be loosely based on the old Excavator IMC. Which is a fucking disaster. If it is true that ZEN has a IMC anywhere near as terrible as the one in Excavator, then trust me when i say, they might aswell used DDR3.

 

i also don't think their idea of a SoC being much to brag about. for a APU system, ITX build? laptops? GREAT! it would further help simplify OEM motherboard designs. Thus allowing both real-estate and time for OEM motherboard designers to put more features onto their boards, like dual mSATA Wifi cards for MIMO support, or even three or four RAID M.2... They would atleast gain enough space for tracing to do that.

 

In the end, ZEN isnt going to save AMD, they will break even or turn a profit in 2017. 2018 they will gain profitability. But their next loan debt is due Jan 1st 2019. And ill be damned if they will have the cash at hand to do that. Because if they are to hit that target. ZEN, VEGA, NAVI and ZEN+ must not only bring them to profitability, it must conquer a massive amount of total market share in all segments, and i simply do not see it happen. Not at this pace.

 

VEGA 10, aka 490, is set to be shot down by the 1080Ti. Which will undercut it at price and hurt margins.

We might see a stark drop in prices for the 1070 and 1080 in the next 2 months, allowing for Nvidia to further undercut VEGA 10.

Volta will launch next fall, and it will give Nvidia another 15-20% flat boost at the lowest, 25% at the highest. So the likelihood of AMD re-entering the "enthusaist grade" GPU market in the next year or two is unlikely.

 

 

So, emergency sell all AMD stock now?

[porina]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

We already have strong rumors suggesting even RyZen will be dual channel on consumer side. Whilst there has been rumors of AMD validating a octa-channel setup for their enterprise side.

I hadn't picked up on this in rumours, and got the impression it would be dual channel per 4 cores from somewhere. If it is indeed dual channel for 8 "faster" cores... ouch. 

 

I did find it curious they ran the New Horizon demos in dual channel... but as far as I know those tasks aren't particularly bandwidth sensitive.

[Prysin]

3 minutes ago, Vode said:

So, emergency sell all AMD stock now?

no no no, their stock is going to rise even after the ZEN launch, because of VEGA. then it will drop by between 2-3$ per share, then it will bounce up and down until the ZEN+ and NAVI leaks start, then it will rise again, i predict it should stabilize at around 12-13.5$ per share by Q3 2018. Q4 financial results will be the make or break, as if they arent making significant profits by then, they will have to lay off staff and sell assets in order to pay their debt

[patrickjp93]

13 minutes ago, Prysin said:

no no no, their stock is going to rise even after the ZEN launch, because of VEGA. then it will drop by between 2-3$ per share, then it will bounce up and down until the ZEN+ and NAVI leaks start, then it will rise again, i predict it should stabilize at around 12-13.5$ per share by Q3 2018. Q4 financial results will be the make or break, as if they arent making significant profits by then, they will have to lay off staff and sell assets in order to pay their debt

And that's all if Abu Dabi doesn't sell off both AMD and GloFo by then.

[Prysin]

i forgot to mention. ZEN APUs, and ZEN+ APUs will be the savior of ZEN. 

 

Desktop ZEN will flop, mobile ZEN will be a success. I predict their next 768 shader iGPU (confirmed rumor btw) to hit around GTX950 performance. Give or take 7-10% plus or minus.

This paired with DDR4, will allow OEMs to release powerful, yet efficient laptops at an affordable pricepoint. Imagine a Intel i3 with IRIS PRO graphics in a "back to school" priced laptop.

 

AMD is poised to launch their APUs in MAY, giving ample time for OEMs to stock up product for "back to school". Given how well Carrizo and Bristol Ridge was received (matching near Skylake i5 ULV performance), it is clear that AMD has set their sights on OEMs and mobile. 

Being able to offer 4 key features in one chip is nothing less of awesome. What are those features you ask?

 

Low power/High efficiency - Zen will undoubtedly be efficient as a mobile chip. One of the main benefits of Carrizo and Excavator as a whole was that even when based on bulldozer, it was performing extremely well even in the 25w range. Not so much in the 65w range, as we saw with the x4 845.

 

powerful intergrated graphics - A desktop GTX 950, or something akin to that, is surely going to be plenty for gaming on a 768p or even a 1080p display. 2-3GB of VRAM would make it a strong competitor to even lower end dedicated Nvidia systems.

 

"hybrid crossfire" - the ability for a OEM to release a quad core + high end iGPU product, and offer a "top end model" which is essentailly just another polaris MX based "card" solution stuck in there for crossfire is tempting for the OEMs. It would give them a low cost alternative to making many different motherboards for their whole range.

 

Freesync - who cares what resolution that screen is. If you slap a 30-75Hz IPS or VA panel on that laptop it will not only be incredibly good for gaming, it wont cost the OEMs much, as Freesync is a VESA standard, so all they require is a slightly costlier panel, in contrast to Nvidia which only allows G-Sync on higher end dGPU solution

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

And that's all if Abu Dabi doesn't sell off both AMD and GloFo by then.

most likely wont. Aslong as their stocks show signs of profitability in the long term, it is a sound investment for them, seeing how the oil prices is low and the instability in the region, causing the primary source of income to hurt them. Gaining a cash cow might be smarter for them in the long run, then short term profit.

 

Playing the stock market can net a nation ALOT of cash. Proof -> Norways pension fund.

[patrickjp93]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

most likely wont. Aslong as their stocks show signs of profitability in the long term, it is a sound investment for them, seeing how the oil prices is low and the instability in the region, causing the primary source of income to hurt them. Gaining a cash cow might be smarter for them in the long run, then short term profit.

 

Playing the stock market can net a nation ALOT of cash. Proof -> Norways pension fund.

Uh, AD is dumping GloFo by 10,000 shares an hour right now.

 

Now is the best time to invest in oil. The prices are going no lower.

 

Even though Norway's pension fund is primarily backed by U.S. treasury bonds, and there's only a small attribution each year creditable to actual stock investment outside of this.

[Prysin]

2 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Uh, AD is dumping GloFo by 10,000 shares an hour right now.

 

Now is the best time to invest in oil. The prices are going no lower.

 

Even though Norway's pension fund is primarily backed by U.S. treasury bonds, and there's only a small attribution each year creditable to actual stock investment outside of this.

GloFo is being sold off because it is apparent that they are no longer a global Fab player. The moment they had to license Samsung tech, they admitted defeat and thus wont be worth the investment. GloFo also have very few clients, compared to TSMC and Samsung. Thus they arent a safe bet. Once AMDs wafer quota agreement is over, GloFo has essentially no future other then renting out factory space for Samsung, Intel or TSMC fabrication processes

[patrickjp93]

1 minute ago, Prysin said:

GloFo is being sold off because it is apparent that they are no longer a global Fab player. The moment they had to license Samsung tech, they admitted defeat and thus wont be worth the investment. GloFo also have very few clients, compared to TSMC and Samsung. Thus they arent a safe bet. Once AMDs wafer quota agreement is over, GloFo has essentially no future other then renting out factory space for Samsung, Intel or TSMC fabrication processes

Their wafer agreement goes to 2022. Also, GloFo has just as many clients as TSMC. They may not be as big name wise, but they do include Texas Instruments, Oracle, IBM, RockChip, and Mediatek.

[Prysin]

4 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Their wafer agreement goes to 2022. Also, GloFo has just as many clients as TSMC. They may not be as big name wise, but they do include Texas Instruments, Oracle, IBM, RockChip, and Mediatek.

which is nice and all. But volume wise, only Oracle is actually BIG. TI doesnt make big chips, they make much cruder devices at a much higher process node. neither does RC and Mediatek. They all stay below 200mm2 except a few stray products. TSMC has Qualcomm, Apple, AMD, Nvidia, SONY, Microsoft among others. 

 

TSMC, Samsung and Intel simply win by massive overwhelming volumes. Samsung and intel also benefit from having a foot in the memory and flash business. GloFo does not.

 

GloFo also has lost a lot of money on RnD that didnt bear fruit. Who knows how many hundreds of millions they spent on 16/14nm before having to suck it up and license from Samsung. Who fucking knows. But you arent recouping those amounts in an instant. especially when your main two "big chip" players, AMD (APUs have sold in quite large volumes) and Oracle aren't going to want to pay extra for your own fuckups.

[patrickjp93]

14 minutes ago, Prysin said:

which is nice and all. But volume wise, only Oracle is actually BIG. TI doesnt make big chips, they make much cruder devices at a much higher process node. neither does RC and Mediatek. They all stay below 200mm2 except a few stray products. TSMC has Qualcomm, Apple, AMD, Nvidia, SONY, Microsoft among others. 

 

TSMC, Samsung and Intel simply win by massive overwhelming volumes. Samsung and intel also benefit from having a foot in the memory and flash business. GloFo does not.

 

GloFo also has lost a lot of money on RnD that didnt bear fruit. Who knows how many hundreds of millions they spent on 16/14nm before having to suck it up and license from Samsung. Who fucking knows. But you arent recouping those amounts in an instant. especially when your main two "big chip" players, AMD (APUs have sold in quite large volumes) and Oracle aren't going to want to pay extra for your own fuckups.

TI makes more chips per year than Oracle, probably by a factor of 10.

 

TSMC doesn't have AMD anymore.

 

GloFo is picking up all of IBM's research materials from their foundries.

 

Actually GloFo did no research on 14nm. It was incredibly cheap. GF jumped right to researching "10nm."

[VerticalDiscussions]

7 hours ago, Prysin said:

-snip-

Seriously? I tought those CPU's were only good for people living in Finland, Norway and Sweden. Also for playing Minecraft xD.

[Lawliet93]

In my opinion, those numbers are true (the score is about twice as high as the score a fx 8350 @4,2GHz would get), but they might have been done on an older ES (the ones, that had 2,8GHz base clock). The ones that we have now might be faster than a intel 6-core, but they will not be as fast as a 6900k. If we analyze the so called 40% IPC gain over excavator, we would come an IPC inbetween IB and haswell, therefore, the 8c/16t Zen CPU should be faster than an intel six-core, but not as fast as an eight-core. 

[Prysin]

1 hour ago, patrickjp93 said:

TI makes more chips per year than Oracle, probably by a factor of 10.

 

TSMC doesn't have AMD anymore.

 

GloFo is picking up all of IBM's research materials from their foundries.

 

Actually GloFo did no research on 14nm. It was incredibly cheap. GF jumped right to researching "10nm."

TI only makes smaller controllers and small mobile SoCs. Foundries sell per wafer, not per chip. That is why yields and die size is so important for the product margins of chip designing companies like AMD, Apple, Samsung, Intel etc. The more you get per wafer, the lower the production cost due to fewer wafers. Growing perfect silicone crystals costs a lot of money.

 

Consoles are AMD tech. Consoles are at TSMC.

 

AMD is still taping out low volume production runs of the Fiji and Hawaii cards used in top end FirePro cards like the W9150 and i would guess, also the newly announced Fiji Nano based card. Which was 28nm

[LAwLz]

33 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Why are AMD threads always the most bipolar ones?

Because some people think brands are like religions, where you need to devote your life to it and if you stop believing or lose faith then you will forever burn in hell.

It's like Christians vs satanists.

[deviant88]

I dont know why people argue so much its not like its final legit scores.

I would never expected Ryzen to even come close to 6900K's even in AMD's own benchmarks.

But it would be really troublesome for AMD if all they can do is match /barely beat an i7 7700k. Because this means its Bulldozer allover again where a single Ryzen core will be like half an intel core, and we all know many games are still not even close to optimized, they probably still run most render commands on 1 thread which will make this cpu extremely bad for games which it seems is what AMD is targeting with Ryzen.

 

Even so if they can get proper IPC and no bottlenecks with modern GPU's and SLi Xfire, and the price is right then AMD has succeeded.

Altough i wouldnt even bother buying a Ryzen 8c/16T over a 4C/8T intel if the price isnt much lower. I really doubt AMD will target Ryzen at less than 300$ that would be quite amazing.

Single core performance, overclocking scaling/ max OC and price is everything now, we dont have any of that data yet.

Any of these rumours are pointless just showing a number in a screenshot.

[vorticalbox]

15 hours ago, SamStrecker said:

Probably fake but we can atleast assume an improvement over their past lineup.

A potato runs faster and cooler than my 8350.

[belfouf]

[sof006]

Looks sexy, i'll upgrade from my 4790K if the price is right.

[samcool55]

These are fake, the AMD results are actually from an E5 2660.

Original source was from the Baidu forum but got removed very quickly.

So we don't know anything  

https://imgur.com/NhJRN8g