AMD Ryzen benchmarks against 7700K and 6900K

[Prysin]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

This is why I was so disappointed Square Enix dropped their Luminous Engine for Unreal. I mean it's not like I know how well coded it was but I've always had immense respect for a company that makes an entire new game engine for every major Final Fantasy title, doing that is freakin expensive and time consuming. That either means they are very experienced in doing it and can make something good or are experts and throwing garbage together that actually functions rather well by the time the game is released.

 

P.S. Before anyone comments please know the difference between Square Enix published games and ones ACTUALLY made by them.

SE as a publisher is shit. As a developer they are damn good. Too bad their games went multi-platform. They were known to be the industry gold standard when it came to extracting performance from the Playstation consoles. But after they branched out to Xbox and PC, their games has had more and more optimization problems.

 

Best coders on consoles is hands down Naughty Dog.

[patrickjp93]

32 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

id love a source , also do you fully understand what you are talking about here? 

Growing silicon crystals in a 99.99% pure environment is cheap these days. And yes, advanced heating cycles have greatly accelerated the pace.

 

http://www.sunedisonsemi.com/index.php?view=Crystal-Growth

 

Intel produces 80,000 crystals a day per growth facility and slices them up at their foundries.

 

26 minutes ago, jeremymwilson said:

Not trying to derail the thread but which game companies do write the best code? I'm fairly new to pc gaming and would be interested to know...

That's a tough toss-up between (stay with me) Square Enix and Paradox Gaming. Those two continuously produce code segments I can't beat.

 

32 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

 

Let's go head to head and see who produces better code then. I already beat Opcode out of here with a stick. Chances are you'll be easy by comparison. And fair warning, I aced undergrad algorithms, aced high performance computing, and got a B+ in graduate advanced algorithms while taking 8 other courses simultaneously getting all the coursework for my Master's Degree done in 4 years. If you're going to run your mouth and question my ability to code, you'd best be prepared to pay out of pride.

[patrickjp93]

10 minutes ago, Prysin said:

SE as a publisher is shit. As a developer they are damn good. Too bad their games went multi-platform. They were known to be the industry gold standard when it came to extracting performance from the Playstation consoles. But after they branched out to Xbox and PC, their games has had more and more optimization problems.

 

Best coders on consoles is hands down Naughty Dog.

Eh...no... The luckiest are, definitely not on merit. Two of my college friends quit and left for Epic after just 6 months. It's a shitshow at ND.

[leadeater]

6 minutes ago, Prysin said:

Best coders on consoles is hands down Naughty Dog.

The last games from Naughty Dog I actually played were Crash Bandicoot and Jax and Daxter, so I don't think I've played any of their PS3 or PS4 games. I know their games are good but I just don't play that much anymore, I got a PS4 at launch and never really used it until FF15.

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Just like all software that as been around for 20 years incrementally brought up to new versions over time. It's really easy for us to sit around and say "wow that code is awful and lots of it should be rewritten" but doing that is extremely expensive and time consuming and creates a complete fork in the support chain further increasing the cost.

 

I very much hate enterprise software they are all awful but they all started in the 90's and have never lost that 90's stain, it's always there either as a small dot or covering the whole bloody thing angry.

i have no respect for that attitude.

Blizzard rewrote their 2003 engine used in WoW from DX8 or 9 over to DX11 last year. Yes, 12 years into the making, the game was upgraded.

 

Thing is, engine updates can be done slowly over time. You can hire say 5 engineers and put them at making a new engine, set a deadline in 3 years time, and THEN be ready to make next gen games on next gen engine. But they dont do that.

 

PLayers of Guildwars 2 has asked Anet to rework their engine from DX9 to DX11, because the single-threaded nature of the game means that even my 4790k and R9 295x2 struggles to get even 60 FPS at 1080p. ANd it is not a GPU problem, it is 100% CPU. The game barely runs better on a 4790k then it does on a FX 8320 running 4.77GHz, simply because it is so fucking single threaded that there is almost nothing to gain.

 

The thing is, in-house engine building ISNT rocket science. Yes you might need to hire a performance tuning engineer to help finalize a engine. But you wont need to hire 300+ devs to make a engine. There is 20+ "how to" books on Amazon alone on how to build a game engine. And youtube has 50 video "playlists" from people telling you step by step how to do the basics of game engine building.

 

It isnt hard to learn how to. But game devs are so fucking complacent and so reliant on pre-developed tools and libraries that they dont know how to code. They are no smarter then your average script kiddy, except they CAN read the code, maybe, and alter things to make it work.

[Space Reptile]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

And fair warning, I aced undergrad algorithms, aced high performance computing, and got a B+ in graduate advanced algorithms while taking 8 other courses simultaneously getting all the coursework for my Master's Degree done in 4 years

congratulations , now please show me what you claim has beaten proven developer TEAMS 

 

not to doubt your achievements , but w/ the current status and reputation you have here,

i find it hard to believe anything you say  w/o any concrete evidence  

[Prysin]

6 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

Eh...no... The luckiest are, definitely not on merit. Two of my college friends quit and left for Epic after just 6 months. It's a shitshow at ND.

oh i can imagine it being hard to work there. The studio''s title have almost more hype then AMDs hardware releases. And as such, meeting expectations is extremely hard. I dont doubt there is shit coding there, but you simply don't release something like the Uncharted series, which does run very well, without knowing how to drag out all the performance you can from the console

[patrickjp93]

2 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i have no respect for that attitude.

Blizzard rewrote their 2003 engine used in WoW from DX8 or 9 over to DX11 last year. Yes, 12 years into the making, the game was upgraded.

 

Thing is, engine updates can be done slowly over time. You can hire say 5 engineers and put them at making a new engine, set a deadline in 3 years time, and THEN be ready to make next gen games on next gen engine. But they dont do that.

 

PLayers of Guildwars 2 has asked Anet to rework their engine from DX9 to DX11, because the single-threaded nature of the game means that even my 4790k and R9 295x2 struggles to get even 60 FPS at 1080p. ANd it is not a GPU problem, it is 100% CPU. The game barely runs better on a 4790k then it does on a FX 8320 running 4.77GHz, simply because it is so fucking single threaded that there is almost nothing to gain.

 

The thing is, in-house engine building ISNT rocket science. Yes you might need to hire a performance tuning engineer to help finalize a engine. But you wont need to hire 300+ devs to make a engine. There is 20+ "how to" books on Amazon alone on how to build a game engine. And youtube has 50 video "playlists" from people telling you step by step how to do the basics of game engine building.

 

It isnt hard to learn how to. But game devs are so fucking complacent and so reliant on pre-developed tools and libraries that they dont know how to code. They are no smarter then your average script kiddy, except they CAN read the code, maybe, and alter things to make it work.

Maybe if that engineer is Herb Sutter or Andrei Alexandrescu...

 

Even Mike Acton admits real programmers need to be thinking about optimization from the start, and he's still 7 years behind the curve imho.

 

Those books are largely outdated.

[leadeater]

4 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's a tough toss-up between (stay with me) Square Enix and Paradox Gaming. Those two continuously produce code segments I can't beat.

Two of my favorite game developers . I am rather biased to RPG makers and RTS/TBS makers though. What's your thoughts on Ironclad Games and Stardock?

[patrickjp93]

5 minutes ago, Space Reptile said:

congratulations , now please show me what you claim has beaten proven developer TEAMS 

 

not to doubt your achievements , but w/ the current status and reputation you have here,

i find it hard to believe anything you say  w/o any concrete evidence  

Uh, my blogs here, which beat code taken directly from the latest Unreal 4 code as of 3 months ago and hasn't been revised since by a factor of 10x.

[patrickjp93]

3 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Two of my favorite game developers . I am rather biased to RPG makers and RTS/TBS makers though. What's your thoughts on Ironclad Games and Stardock?

No idea and not versed enough. I slowed down on gaming junior year when I seriously considered going for a master's degree. These days I yank code out of LLVM and game engines and improve it. Friday evenings I have code reviews with Chandler Carruth of google and various developers in the c++ community. My gaming consists of Diablo II and Guild Wars 2 these days.

[leadeater]

52 minutes ago, Prysin said:

i have no respect for that attitude.

Blizzard rewrote their 2003 engine used in WoW from DX8 or 9 over to DX11 last year. Yes, 12 years into the making, the game was upgraded.

That was more based on corporate side of software development than the game industry, a world I suffer through as my day job . Re-writing a multi-national payroll application makes every company I have bitched at about it run so fast, I can understand why. Compliance and regulatory testing.

 

P.S. I wasn't actually saying it shouldn't be done or liked that developers don't do it, just giving direct reasons I have heard from some.

 

Edit:

sightly altered text, sounded like I was saying I was a software dev which I'm not. I'm a system engineer and have to deploy their horrible software.

[patrickjp93]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

That was more based on corporate side of software development than the game industry, something I suffer through as my day job . Re-writing a multi-national payroll application makes every company I have bitched at about it makes them run so fast, I can understand why. Compliance and regulatory testing.

 

P.S. I wasn't actually saying it shouldn't be done or liked that developers don't do it, just giving direct reasons I have heard from some.

??? I just did this with a team of 7 for Suncorp (the 5th biggest bank in this country) in 4 months (Australia, New Zealand, China, and India). WTF?!

[leadeater]

1 minute ago, patrickjp93 said:

??? I just did this with a team of 7 for Suncorp (the 5th biggest bank in this country) in 4 months (Australia, New Zealand, China, and India). WTF?!

Not like it doesn't happen but it's very rare of most places to actually bite the bullet and do it, there is some more compelling reasons to do so now days though. Cloud ready software architecture, scalable services, native HA rather than doing it at the infrastructure level etc.

 

Not doing it is usually nothing to do with any of the software developers who usually want to. 

[patrickjp93]

Just now, leadeater said:

Not like it doesn't happen but it's very rare of most places to actually bite the bullet and do it, there is some more compelling reasons to do so now days though. Cloud ready software architecture, scalable services, native HA rather than doing it at the infrastructure level etc.

 

Not doing it is usually nothing to do with any of the software developers who usually want to. 

We don't even have the luxury of a self-driven AMI for hands-free scalability. We did it at the infrastructure level on our own in 4 months. And thank God for our System Architect, because at least he knew where I was going when I suggested software-defined networking to drive this beast (it does leave forecasting on every payroll run).

[Prysin]

24 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

No idea and not versed enough. I slowed down on gaming junior year when I seriously considered going for a master's degree. These days I yank code out of LLVM and game engines and improve it. Friday evenings I have code reviews with Chandler Carruth of google and various developers in the c++ community. My gaming consists of Diablo II and Guild Wars 2 these days.

you still havent gotten around to adding me on your friendlist in GW2

[leadeater]

8 minutes ago, patrickjp93 said:

We don't even have the luxury of a self-driven AMI for hands-free scalability. We did it at the infrastructure level on our own in 4 months. And thank God for our System Architect, because at least he knew where I was going when I suggested software-defined networking to drive this beast (it does leave forecasting on every payroll run).

Sounds like there is at least to some degree software driven HA in there though. Does the whole system hinge on something like multiple HA pairs of Citrix NetScalers with BGP peering between them so the virtual IP addresses can failover between cities? But if something at this layer breaks the whole system is dead.

 

Even if it's done at an infrastructure level if the software actually expects that it's going to be put in to some kind of HA configuration it helps immensely compared to software that doesn't care about HA and does stuff that directly makes it harder.

[themaniac]

8 hours ago, patrickjp93 said:

That's a tough toss-up between (stay with me) Square Enix and Paradox Gaming.

honestly I don't believe Paradox has the best code(do note I have extremely limited knowledge of coding), I do love their games, I have over 800 hours in EU4 and I put in about 50 hours in around 2 weeks in CK2, but they are very cpu bound and from my research they only use 2 cores, they could really benefit from using more cores, and from using more of the gpu(especially Cities Skyline)

[NTDaws]

On 12/19/2016 at 4:55 PM, VerticalDiscussions said:

Well, as usually with AMD, here it comes:

 

i dont get it. im bad with jokes lol

[The Benjamins]

28 minutes ago, Dawson Wehage said:

i dont get it. im bad with jokes lol

it refers to the saying "take it with a grain of salt." as in we don't know its true. and the meme is that pictures of large piles of salt means you might not want to put much faith into it.

 

TLDR: Yo its a rumor chill out.

[VerticalDiscussions]

50 minutes ago, Dawson Wehage said:

-snip-

Its salt and salt is a joke, because the Internet said so. Now go and click the funny button or ill pour sugar over you!

[vanished]

17 minutes ago, VerticalDiscussions said:

Its salt and salt is a joke, because the Internet said so. Now go and click the funny button or ill pour sugar over you!

 

[SurvivorNVL]

I'm going to give this the benefit of the doubt and assume that the tested CPU is actually a Ryzen Quad-core with HT, which places it between the two Intel chips.  Unlikely, but I'll give it that hope, given it's only a month away until we know what happens for real.  So, with that thought in mind, then let's imagine their 6 and 8-core chips still being 85 - 130 points away from the 6900k respectively:  I'd be happy with that.  I'd also be happy with this KBP Matias Linear board not keychattering every sixth N press and giving me 16 N's for one press.  But I will solve -that- issue.  WITH TOOTHPICKS!

[patrickjp93]

11 hours ago, leadeater said:

Sounds like there is at least to some degree software driven HA in there though. Does the whole system hinge on something like multiple HA pairs of Citrix NetScalers with BGP peering between them so the virtual IP addresses can failover between cities? But if something at this layer breaks the whole system is dead.

 

Even if it's done at an infrastructure level if the software actually expects that it's going to be put in to some kind of HA configuration it helps immensely compared to software that doesn't care about HA and does stuff that directly makes it harder.

Nope. It's organized the same way a Hadoop cluster is, only it dynamically encrypts traffic AND does the analytics via the interconnect instead of by bogging down the CPUs. 4 Intel Stratix Xs running 20x10Gbit switches. 40TFlops SP/20DP and a mostly in-memory database. It's a beautiful piece of art.

[AlTech]

4 hours ago, Dawson Wehage said:

i dont get it. im bad with jokes lol

SALT. Take it with a grain of Salt!