Minors playing M rated games. How do you feel?

[HughMungusCynicalAnarch]

15 minutes ago, Axeonelite said:

/Start Sarcasm [Well thank you for the wonderfully insightful, hearty contribution to this topic]/End Sarcasm

Im right.

[gcubed]

Depends on three things:

1. How mature the minor in question is (I know adults that too immature to be exposed to My Little Pony).

2. The reason(s) the game received its rating.

3. How tolerant is the parent of questions posed by the minor pertaining to the game.

 

 

[gcubed]

4 hours ago, HughMungusCynicalAnarch said:

-snip-

 

Oh man, do you have that backwards...

 

Both organizations were created BY THEIR RESPECTIVE INDUSTRIES but separate from the industries (that is to say, while created by the game and movie studios, they are not controlled by them). These are private organizations, not government organizations. Their ratings, in and of themselves, do NOT carry the force of law. In other words, the ESRB does not make it illegal for a two year old to purchase, possess or play an AO rated game, they just recommend against it. The ESRB and MPAA cannot force a studio to submit a game/movie for rating. If a studio does not submit their product, that product just does not have a rating.

 

Ok, so if the ESRB (and MPAA) does not have legislative or enforcement powers, why is it illegal for my local store to sell a two year old an AO rated game? While the ESRB and MPAA cannot make anything illegal, your local, state and federal governments can. Most states adopted the ESRB and MPAA recommendations and made them requirements by law.

 

Now if you think that is stifling, imagine the alternative. Where the federal government, state governments, county governments, city governments, village elders, and each crossroad made up their own laws without any guidelines at all. If you think something like that would be a good thing, just check out what sort of content people would like to see restricted on the internet, and how that changes from location to location.

 

There may be a certain amount of "stifling" going on because of these ratings, but compared to what it would turn into, it is damned near liberating. Take a fictional game company, oh let's call them Bethesda Softworks. Let's say they want to market a game, oh let's call it Fallout 4. With the ESRB this fictional game company knows that they are dealing with six different ratings: from least restrictive to most restrictive EC, E, E10+, T, M, and AO. They know what content is allowed for each rating. They know the laws in the US are fairly uniform pertaining to these ratings. They know that even a game with EC content will be treated as an AO game by most localities if it does not have a rating. And finally they know that the largest market is for M rated games. They are a business, they code an M rated game.

 

Without the ESRB, every freaking retard that knows better than you do what you should play would be passing laws. There would be no uniformity at all. And Bethesda Software would be named Sidney Software, after the location they were incorporated at, in a country whose censorship laws were more reasonable and in the US.

 

[Axeonelite]

52 minutes ago, gcubed said:

 

Oh man, do you have that backwards...

 

Removed most of the quote for page size sake. But I agree and well put. Thank you for the reply I couldn't have cared less to give. lol

[HughMungusCynicalAnarch]

55 minutes ago, gcubed said:

 

Oh man, do you have that backwards...

 

Both organizations were created BY THEIR RESPECTIVE INDUSTRIES but separate from the industries (that is to say, while created by the game and movie studios, they are not controlled by them). These are private organizations, not government organizations. Their ratings, in and of themselves, do NOT carry the force of law. In other words, the ESRB does not make it illegal for a two year old to purchase, possess or play an AO rated game, they just recommend against it. The ESRB and MPAA cannot force a studio to submit a game/movie for rating. If a studio does not submit their product, that product just does not have a rating.

 

Ok, so if the ESRB (and MPAA) does not have legislative or enforcement powers, why is it illegal for my local store to sell a two year old an AO rated game? While the ESRB and MPAA cannot make anything illegal, your local, state and federal governments can. Most states adopted the ESRB and MPAA recommendations and made them requirements by law.

 

Now if you think that is stifling, imagine the alternative. Where the federal government, state governments, county governments, city governments, village elders, and each crossroad made up their own laws without any guidelines at all. If you think something like that would be a good thing, just check out what sort of content people would like to see restricted on the internet, and how that changes from location to location.

 

There may be a certain amount of "stifling" going on because of these ratings, but compared to what it would turn into, it is damned near liberating. Take a fictional game company, oh let's call them Bethesda Softworks. Let's say they want to market a game, oh let's call it Fallout 4. With the ESRB this fictional game company knows that they are dealing with six different ratings: from least restrictive to most restrictive EC, E, E10+, T, M, and AO. They know what content is allowed for each rating. They know the laws in the US are fairly uniform pertaining to these ratings. They know that even a game with EC content will be treated as an AO game by most localities if it does not have a rating. And finally they know that the largest market is for M rated games. They are a business, they code an M rated game.

 

Without the ESRB, every freaking retard that knows better than you do what you should play would be passing laws. There would be no uniformity at all. And Bethesda Software would be named Sidney Software, after the location they were incorporated at, in a country whose censorship laws were more reasonable and in the US.

 

ANY such restrictions are immoral and more importantly unconstitutional.

[Axeonelite]

Just now, HughMungusCynicalAnarch said:

ANY such restrictions are immoral and more importantly unconstitutional.

You are no longer contributing to the thread any further comments will be ignored. 

[JefferyD90]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 5:36 PM, Axeonelite said:

It’s that time again. Time for a trip to your local store, whether it be the Best Buy, EB Games, Gamestop, Or even Walmart. Once you get there you see  A child asking their parent to buy them some M rated video game. You’re infuriated. “How does this child even know what that game is?” “Games like this aren’t made for children” “They have a rating system for a reason!” You proclaim in your head. Then in the midst of your self-righteous monologue you hear it. Their parent finally does “Sure!” Or “Whatever, you can have it.”

 

“WHAT IN THE WORLD!” Your jaw drops to the floor. “How dare the parents allow their children to play that violent, sexual, experience, Why would they even allow such a thing?

 

 

The problem is not in the rating. Whether it be M for Video Games, R for Movies, or TV-MA for televised programing. The ESRB and MPAA ratings give us a good guideline as to what the content within is. But their rating is not the issue. The rating system in any country is still an opinion. The Rating is not meant to imply that no one under the age on the box can not handle the content contained in that Game or Movie.

 

But let me be very clear that gaming today is not the innocent happy-go-lucky experiences they used to be. Today, games are filled with realism in many forms, Violence, Sexual interactions, and drug & Alcohol usage.

 

But these things are not new things people are being exposed to. Humans have experienced this things for many generations. Even children are being exposed to this things at younger and younger ages. A lot of parents and adults worry that children will act out the things they do in games in real life. The same has been said thousands of times about movies and television as well.

 

The ratio of people who view violent movies and play violent video games versus the people who act on what they see or even just people who commit these acts without every playing a violent video gaming or below average TV and movie viewing is not enough to cause alarm. Yet, since video games aren’t as understood or accepted by some as movies and T.V. are, video games get more hate than they should.

 

Each person has the right to choose what type of content they will consume. And I stand by that statement myself. But as far as children go I also believe that if you are living in your parents home, you do have to abide by their rules.

 

Many Children who play M rated games, Watch R rated movies, and TV-MA, content do so because it’s trendy. Which is true, many people are attracted to the violence or whatever Mature theme is in that content. But that being said they are other video games to play. Many Children claim that only M rated games are coming out nowadays.

 

In Metacritic's list for the top video game released by Score in 2016 as of the time of uploading this video only 33 of the top 100 games were rated M. And that includes the same game being listed multiple times for different systems. So there are clearly other options of games to play.

 

But that being said people are going to be attracted to what they like. 

 

What do you guys think? 

Personally, I think Steam should require you to submit a photo ID for verification to play a M rated game.

 

I, as a 26 year old male, have no problem taking a picture of my drivers license for Valve to prove my age, but a 35 year old mother wouldn't dare give their 12 year old kid their ID to spoof it.

 

This gets rid of all of the after school trash in CSGO...

[Axeonelite]

1 minute ago, JefferyD90 said:

Personally, I think Steam should require you to submit a photo ID for verification to play a M rated game.

 

I, as a 26 year old male, have no problem taking a picture of my drivers license for Valve to prove my age, but a 35 year old mother wouldn't dare give their 12 year old kid their ID to spoof it.

 

This gets rid of all of the after school trash in CSGO...

 

I agree. I did this to my World of Warcraft account a years ago when I still played it so no one could make any changes to my account without sending them my ID photocopy

[gcubed]

44 minutes ago, HughMungusCynicalAnarch said:

ANY such restrictions are immoral and more importantly unconstitutional.

 

Blame the various governmental bodies for that, not the ESRB and/or MPAA. These two organizations are not restricting anything, they are just making viewer recommendations, it is the various governments (and not just in the US) that are making restrictions.

 

[Donut417]

1 hour ago, HughMungusCynicalAnarch said:

ANY such restrictions are immoral and more importantly unconstitutional.

Which is why in 2011 the US supreme court ruled Video game content is protected under the first amendment. So legally no restrictions can exist at least in the US. 

[Mooshi]

There are kids more mature than 30 year olds who have anime body pillows--just saying. As far as M rated games go, it comes down to tge individual playing it more so than how old they are. 

 

I mean, I played violent games as a kid and had no desire to rip someone's leg off irl and beat them with it. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

24 minutes ago, gcubed said:

 

Blame the various governmental bodies for that, not the ESRB and/or MPAA. These two organizations are not restricting anything, they are just making viewer recommendations, it is the various governments (and not just in the US) that are making restrictions.

 

Which is why in 2011 the US supreme court ruled Video game content is protected under the first amendment. So legally no restrictions can exist at least in the US. 

 

I believe the rating system is only for purchasing. 
Any child even the age of 5 may go to the movie theater with their parents to see Blood action scary death movie XXX.
Any child even the age of 5 may buy Blood action scary death game XXX with parental permission. 

The restriction is by who can purchase it, and own it. Anyone is allowed to view, and or play any content. The restriction is in purchasing. Even if the law no longer age restricion when purchasing products, I believe businesses like gamestop and steam would still follow the code of age restriction simply to appeal to parents who still care about the rating system. It would be more of a public relations stunt to still restrict who they sell content to. 

Just as a gun store in florida restricted a certain type of people from entering their premists by sign, a store can refuse to sell certain content to certain people. It is their legal right to refuse service to anyone because it is in the end entertainment. Because there is no oath like a doctor I believe stores would still enforce age restriction for social reasons. No companies come to mind besides target on trying to be more accepting where as target removed gender specific clothing isles to cater to whom I would assume people having gender identity issues, gamestop for instance would enforce age restriction to cater to the parents who care. 

I believe many individuals would respect such companies to retain age restriction even if the law no longer enforced it. Adults wouldn't be effected by such concerns because they have money, and they are of the age to purchase the games. The only people complaining would be kids who's parents monitor the content they allow their kids to view. 

With the variety of games out, I wouldn't have a problem with games getting harsher ratings provided distributers would allow that content to be sold by them. For instance Microsoft Nintendo and Sony don't allow Ao rated games on their consoles (requires users to be 21 years old. May contain gambling, extreme violence, or extreme sexual content) but if Steam allowed Ao games since that's the only store I use, I would very much be for harsher ratings as if I wanted to play the games, I would just ask my parents to purchase it, or wait till I turned 21. There are plenty of great old games out, just they aren't promoted as much.

For instance I am of age to play Shadow of Mordor, and that game provides plenty of great content for my age group. However I am not old enough to play Ao games. Just as how kids tend to watch disney, and nickelodeon, content tethered to age is still great content. 
 

Did I like Halo when I was a kid? Yeah sure. Was I old enough? No. Would I have been satisfied playing E rated games like SSX Trickey, and Jack and Daxter? Yeah. Those are great games tethered to the audience. However because my parents allowed me to play Halo, I played that game in addition. All the rating is, is to protect children from content that may not know how to deal with. We don't let 5 year olds into the military. Can some tolerate the brutalities of war? I wouldn't say no. Can all 5 year olds go into a war-zone and watch their friends die terribly and be fine with it? Well 17, and 30 year olds cannot deal with such atrocities.

As I said before on not letting people sometimes up to the age of 22 have voice communication on gaming, many are simply not mentally prepared for what may happen. Not everyone will be discriminated against in the worst possible ways, but explaining what would happen in schools and how to deal with it may help those if they learn how to deal with it before hand. Just as how schools teach about eating a variety of different foods like meat, bananas, fruits, vegetables, and fats. 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

There are kids more mature than 30 year olds who have anime body pillows--just saying.

That's not an argument, but a fallacy. Having a hobby that one enjoys, like anime, doesn't make someone immature for enjoying it. There are kids who will only play M-rated games as if it's a "coming of age" initiation or responsibility.

2 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

As far as M rated games go, it comes down to the individual playing it more so than how old they are. 

That's a proper argument. Mind if I ask what your criteria for a healthy use of video games would be? How would you approach the topics, no matter how heavy, that a child (assuming a young age about 14 or lower) may face as they play an M-rated game with violence? Gore? Sex? Gore and violence (since they don't always exist together)? Where would you draw the line or set boundaries for the child? How would you parent the child as healthily as possible?

2 minutes ago, Mooshi said:

I mean, I played violent games as a kid and had no desire to rip someone's leg off irl and beat them with it. 

You're in the sociological and psychological definition (or bracket) of "normal" showing no deviant (outside of cultural norms) behavior in this instance.

[Mooshi]

2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

That's not an argument, but a fallacy. Having a hobby that one enjoys, like anime, doesn't make someone immature for enjoying it. There are kids who will only play M-rated games as if it's a "coming of age" initiation or responsibility.

That's a proper argument. Mind if I ask what your criteria for a healthy use of video games would be? How would you approach the topics, no matter how heavy, that a child (assuming a young age about 14 or lower) may face as they play an M-rated game with violence? Gore? Sex? Gore and violence (since they don't always exist together)? Where would you draw the line or set boundaries for the child? How would you parent the child as healthily as possible?

You're in the sociological and psychological definition (or bracket) of "normal" showing no deviant (outside of cultural norms) behavior in this instance.

 Wouldn't exactly consider myself "normal"  but thanks, lol. This is just based off my own experience. I mean, all the sheltering doesn't mean much since there is always that one friend with lax parents. 

 

Growing up, it was all Nintendo honestly. Other family and friends had the more "mature"  games growing up. Being a kid or an adult doesn't mean much when it comes to M rated games, honestly. It's 100% their own mentally whether or not they can seperate fantasy from reality. 

[hartantovictor]

It's up to the parents. Cause rating should be for the parents' guidance whether they should let their kid play/watch that not-suitable-rating-game/movie or not.

 

Both answer (it's okay/it's not okay) are correct. Cause there're just too many ways people could grow up and become someone. No strict line/guide book could determine anything.

[Clanscorpia]

13 hours ago, ARikozuM said:

That's not an argument, but a fallacy. Having a hobby that one enjoys, like anime, doesn't make someone immature for enjoying it. There are kids who will only play M-rated games as if it's a "coming of age" initiation or responsibility.

 

Most of the games I play are M games because a lot of them have the best strategy in them

[Donut417]

32 minutes ago, Abyssal Radon said:

I have an interesting point to add. Any of you ever played Man Hunt? Want your little boy or girl playing that game? Thought not lol, it's probably the most violent game ever. It's a game where you play as a guy who basically kills people in the worst ways you could think of. Oh yes I have Man Hunt 2, you can buy the AO version on Amazon games for $15. 

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=%23&ved=0ahUKEwjyqs3a7-LQAhUhr1QKHc-eBPQQxa8BCB4wAg&usg=AFQjCNF1sHlk2z9QIx28jtvfnGP_UlkifA

 

Watch this lol. Crazy...

You sir have a very valid point. Which is why parents need to look at the rating and content descriptors on the box. Parents now days have more tools. How many lets players are their on Youtube? Pick one who plays the game and you will have an idea about what the game is about. 

 

I was actually kinda surprised Amazon carried Manhunt 2. As I could not find it on Steam, and you damn well know no retail location is going to carry it ever. Because an AO rating on a game is a death sentence. Thats actually the reason the hot coffee mod came to be on San Andreas. As Rock Star was afraid that the content  that was "Turned Off" would have given them an AO rating if it was left "On". But then the PC master racers figured out how to switch it back on LOL. GG Rockstar. 

[Space Reptile]

children shud not play those games , that is why we have a rating system in the first place ,

but parents are stupid and buy there 6 year old screamer call of duty so he shuts up

[Statik]

If people actually expect someone to wait until they're 18 to watch an 18A movie, or play an M rated game, they're absolutely fucking retarded, no if's ands, or butts about it.

[Statik]

17 hours ago, JefferyD90 said:

Personally, I think Steam should require you to submit a photo ID for verification to play a M rated game.

 

I, as a 26 year old male, have no problem taking a picture of my drivers license for Valve to prove my age, but a 35 year old mother wouldn't dare give their 12 year old kid their ID to spoof it.

 

This gets rid of all of the after school trash in CSGO...

But then what about the 15+ kids who actually want to play those games and aren't retarded? That's hardly fair.

 

Not to mention that would DRASTICALLY cut down on profits.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Statik said:

If people actually expect someone to wait until they're 18 to watch an 18A movie, or play an M rated game, they're absolutely fucking retarded, no if's ands, or butts about it.

That's not what this thread is about. The question is "How do you feel about minors playing M-rated games?". What do you count as an "M-rated" game, where are the limits for you (say if you were the parent or child), and how would you guide your child in cases where something looks "innocent" but has a deeper issue being tackled? 

 

3 minutes ago, Statik said:

But then what about the 15+ kids who actually want to play those games and aren't retarded? That's hardly fair.

This has nothing to do with retardation and the development of the prefrontal cortex in children isn't fully developed until the 20's.

3 minutes ago, Statik said:

Not to mention that would DRASTICALLY cut down on profits.

This has nothing to do with the profits of businesses.

[Statik]

1 minute ago, ARikozuM said:

That's not what this thread is about. The question is "How do you feel about minors playing M-rated games?". What do you count as an "M-rated" game, where are the limits for you (say if you were the parent or child), and how would you guide your child in cases where something looks "innocent" but has a deeper issue being tackled? 

Are you even reading my posts?

 

I'm replying to people's opinions on the matter

 

First, I was talking about the not uncommon opinion to require ID to purchase games, or ID photos sent to game companies bought through steam, etc. And that flat out is my opinion on minors playing games. They should be allowed. Restricting games that are M rated, etc to people over 18 is stupid.

 

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

This has nothing to do with retardation and the development of the prefrontal cortex in children isn't fully developed until the 20's.

 

I fail to see your point? Are you saying an 18 year old isn't mentally developed enough to play a fucking video game? I again, I was replying to a post about restricting M rated games to all minors.

 

4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

 

This has nothing to do with the profits of businesses.

Again, replying to a post buds. I was talking about how restricting M rates games to minors (which I must say is on topic) would not happen because the game producers must support minors playing games, as that's a large part of their target audience.

[Scruffy90]

On 12/4/2016 at 5:36 PM, Axeonelite said:

It’s that time again. Time for a trip to your local store, whether it be the Best Buy, EB Games, Gamestop, Or even Walmart. Once you get there you see  A child asking their parent to buy them some M rated video game. You’re infuriated. “How does this child even know what that game is?” “Games like this aren’t made for children” “They have a rating system for a reason!” You proclaim in your head. Then in the midst of your self-righteous monologue you hear it. Their parent finally does “Sure!” Or “Whatever, you can have it.”

 

“WHAT IN THE WORLD!” Your jaw drops to the floor. “How dare the parents allow their children to play that violent, sexual, experience, Why would they even allow such a thing?

 

 

The problem is not in the rating. Whether it be M for Video Games, R for Movies, or TV-MA for televised programing. The ESRB and MPAA ratings give us a good guideline as to what the content within is. But their rating is not the issue. The rating system in any country is still an opinion. The Rating is not meant to imply that no one under the age on the box can not handle the content contained in that Game or Movie.

 

But let me be very clear that gaming today is not the innocent happy-go-lucky experiences they used to be. Today, games are filled with realism in many forms, Violence, Sexual interactions, and drug & Alcohol usage.

 

But these things are not new things people are being exposed to. Humans have experienced this things for many generations. Even children are being exposed to this things at younger and younger ages. A lot of parents and adults worry that children will act out the things they do in games in real life. The same has been said thousands of times about movies and television as well.

 

The ratio of people who view violent movies and play violent video games versus the people who act on what they see or even just people who commit these acts without every playing a violent video gaming or below average TV and movie viewing is not enough to cause alarm. Yet, since video games aren’t as understood or accepted by some as movies and T.V. are, video games get more hate than they should.

 

Each person has the right to choose what type of content they will consume. And I stand by that statement myself. But as far as children go I also believe that if you are living in your parents home, you do have to abide by their rules.

 

Many Children who play M rated games, Watch R rated movies, and TV-MA, content do so because it’s trendy. Which is true, many people are attracted to the violence or whatever Mature theme is in that content. But that being said they are other video games to play. Many Children claim that only M rated games are coming out nowadays.

 

In Metacritic's list for the top video game released by Score in 2016 as of the time of uploading this video only 33 of the top 100 games were rated M. And that includes the same game being listed multiple times for different systems. So there are clearly other options of games to play.

 

But that being said people are going to be attracted to what they like. 

 

What do you guys think? 

I grew up playing doom, mortal kombat and other overly violent games before the rating system existed and the one thing my mother did when I played them is remind me that those were just games and not real. 

Having worked in a gamestop for longer than I should have, I noticed that the majority of parents don't even know what theyre buying their kids. When I would tell them a game contained violence or whatever else, I would get one of two answers. The first one to their child was usually "why didnt you tell me this game contained so much violence" or the other would be "oh well, they should know its not real, right?"

 

Personally, I think parents should make the judgement for much younger children while reminding them that its not real. Most of the people I know that played rated M games while growing up turned out ok.

[JefferyD90]

1 hour ago, Statik said:

But then what about the 15+ kids who actually want to play those games and aren't retarded? That's hardly fair.

 

Not to mention that would DRASTICALLY cut down on profits.

im sorry, but the rules are the rules. Maybe we should change the rules instead of circumventing them...

[Statik]

12 minutes ago, JefferyD90 said:

im sorry, but the rules are the rules. Maybe we should change the rules instead of circumventing them...

That's exactly what we should do.

 

It's ridiculous to think that I joined the military at 17, and was considered deployable at 18, yet people actually believe people under the age of 18 shouldn't be allowed to play GTA V, or Battlefield because it promotes violence. It's completely illogical.