New Surfaces

[elfensky]

9 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'm not sure how I feel about 3:2 on a desktop. 3:2 is great on a tablet because you're actively touching/using it, so the 3:2 aspect ratio is beneficial....but on a desktop you won't be touching the screen, so I don't really see 3:2 being particularly good relative to 16:9/16:10, although I'm not the target user base for this device....so maybe there is benefits to 3:2 on a desktop as well?

It's still a touchscreen with a pen you can draw with. 3:2 is very nice for those purposes, as there's more vertical space you can rest your hand on.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, ElfenSky said:

It's still a touchscreen with a pen you can draw with. 3:2 is very nice for those purposes, as there's more vertical space you can rest your hand on.

Yeah, I understand why it's 3:2, I said that before they announced it pivoted (I assumed it was just a traditional AIO).

[GoodBytes]

So I was watching the presentation... and I am confused...

Microsoft said 2TB Hybrid drive... but in the video release they show this:

 

 

So do they mean PCIe SSD?! Or is there an HDD not shown in the video with is a PCIe SSD to form a custom hybrid drive solution?

[ARikozuM]

Just now, GoodBytes said:

snip

Hybrid could be a hidden 64GB M.2 with a 2TB.

[79wjd]

5 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

So I was watching the presentation... and I am confused...

Microsoft said 2TB Hybrid drive... but in the video release they show this:

 

 

So do they mean PCIe SSD?! Or is there an HDD not shown in the video with is a PCIe SSD to form a custom hybrid drive solution?

 

3 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Hybrid could be a hidden 64GB M.2 with a 2TB.

According to Tech Radar:

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/surface-studio

Those components include up to a quad-core Intel Core i7-6820HQ processor at 2.7GHz, Nvidia's GTX 980M graphics chip with 4GB of memory, as much as 32GB of RAM and a hybrid hard drive as large as 2TB (128GB SSD).

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

According to Tech Radar:

http://www.techradar.com/reviews/surface-studio

Those components include up to a quad-core Intel Core i7-6820HQ processor at 2.7GHz, Nvidia's GTX 980M graphics chip with 4GB of memory, as much as 32GB of RAM and a hybrid hard drive as large as 2TB (128GB SSD).

So it includes an M.2 SSD and a SSHD? Well played, Microsoft, well played.

[79wjd]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

So it includes an M.2 SSD and a SSHD? Well played, Microsoft, well played.

My take is that it's a standard HDD with an M.2 SSD. 

[Tocsin_786]

10 hours ago, huilun02 said:

The price is still too 'professional' for me I'm afraid

The Wacom PC Tablet thingy is like 2500 bucks (and it was released last january), with a 1440p screen. they arent really asking for much for what its worth and what it comes with. 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Tocsin_786 said:

The Wacom PC Tablet thingy is like 2500 bucks (and it was released last january), with a 1440p screen. they arent really asking for much for what its worth and what it comes with. 

People only look at specs and BoM cost these days when valuing computers.

[Tocsin_786]

4 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

People only look at specs and BoM cost these days when valuing computers.

Exactly. This product is not meant for us at all. If it weren't for my digital design art professor, I would not have known how much interest and how much products for that criteria are and cost. He would go bonkers over this if I showed it to him on Friday. Just 2 years ago a good 4k monitor cost 3kUSD, now its around 700-1000 for a decent one. This thing comes with livable specs for what its meant to do, and its designed in a very unique way that makes it worth the price tag. 

[ARikozuM]

10 minutes ago, Tocsin_786 said:

Exactly. This product is not meant for us at all. If it weren't for my digital design art professor, I would not have known how much interest and how much products for that criteria are and cost. He would go bonkers over this if I showed it to him on Friday. Just 2 years ago a good 4k monitor cost 3kUSD, now its around 700-1000 for a decent one. This thing comes with livable specs for what its meant to do, and its designed in a very unique way that makes it worth the price tag. 

Hell, I wish MSI or Asus someone else would make a customizable AIO like the DRN-STN AIO but thinner and better. It'd be awesome for those who want a capable system in a neat, slim package.

[Orangeator]

34 minutes ago, Tocsin_786 said:

The Wacom PC Tablet thingy is like 2500 bucks (and it was released last january), with a 1440p screen. they arent really asking for much for what its worth and what it comes with. 

Yeah this screen on the Studio is insane! It's resolution is higher then 4k! 

[vanished]

Interesting.  Obviously it seems overpriced at first but let's break it down.  

First, what would a custom desktop with these specs cost?  Next, add on the display, which would not be cheap, since it seems like it's a good one in terms of colour and has digital pen features.  Throw in a little bonus for the fact it's all so compact and nicely designed and what do we get?

 

(seriously, what do we get?  I don't feel like doing this math right now )

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Interesting.  Obviously it seems overpriced at first but let's break it down.  

First, what would a custom desktop with these specs cost?  Next, add on the display, which would not be cheap, since it seems like it's a good one in terms of colour and has digital pen features.  Throw in a little bonus for the fact it's all so compact and nicely designed and what do we get?

 

(seriously, what do we get?  I don't feel like doing this math right now )

Considering that a good drawing tablet roughly the size of the Surface Studio costs about $2000, we're left with X dollars. Now we have to pay for an ITX rig that contains an i5-6x00 and a GTX 960. Add the monitor which can be as cheap as you want and I'm guessing that we'd be at about 2700. Take labor into account (I could build this in about 5 hours from scratch to completion of OS and benchmarking) costing 300 (on the short end)... Yea, this isn't a bad deal since you're getting a much more focused product in the end that is cleaner and more likely to have tech support and warranty.

[vanished]

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Considering that a good drawing tablet roughly the size of the Surface Studio costs about $2000, we're left with X dollars. Now we have to pay for an ITX rig that contains an i5-6x00 and a GTX 960. Add the monitor which can be as cheap as you want and I'm guessing that we'd be at about 2700. Take labor into account (I could build this in about 5 hours from scratch to completion of OS and benchmarking) costing 300 (on the short end)... Yea, this isn't a bad deal since you're getting a much more focused product in the end that is cleaner and more likely to have tech support and warranty.

Yeah that's the thing, even though it seems like too much at first glance, I think this thing might actually be very reasonably priced for what it is.  Cool to see, especially considering the Surface line... 

[GoodBytes]

19 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Interesting.  Obviously it seems overpriced at first but let's break it down.  

First, what would a custom desktop with these specs cost?  Next, add on the display, which would not be cheap, since it seems like it's a good one in terms of colour and has digital pen features.  Throw in a little bonus for the fact it's all so compact and nicely designed and what do we get?

 

(seriously, what do we get?  I don't feel like doing this math right now )

Well... Let's look at the Apple iMac 27inch, which has a 5K display (I mean both are more than 4K display. Microsoft is a custom display to get it so thin, 3:2 aspect ratio and DCI-P3 color space support (probably costs more than 5K display panel). We have to look at Apple iMac highest end model for easier comparison with the Surface Studio, as there is most matches in configurations specs. On Apple we need to get the 2TB fusion drive which, I guess we can say it is comparable to Microsoft hybrid drive and the AMD Radeon M395X (which is still too weak compared to the 980M)

 

The problem is CPU.. we don't know the chip of the Surface Studio to know which one to pick. Is it the same 4GHz chip that iMac has as option? Say, yes.

 

The result, is that the iMac costs $3,399 US.

Surface Studio is $4,199 US

 

So, for $800 more you have:

• Touch screen
• Pen digitizer
• Adapted sensor to detect the Surface Dial (however the tracking is done... I am saying this as apparently you don't have the full experience... I am assuming this is what they mean... we have to see)
• What it looks like an excellent hinge system to put it in draw mode, and support high pressure from an arm rest when drawing.
• DCI-P3 and Adobe sRGB supported display
• Manufacture color calibrated panel
• Xbox Wireless built-in

Is it worth the premium? Well it id very difficult to justify the premium. See if you compare the Surface Pro with the 13inch MacBook Pro, I think the MacBook Pro is $300US more (going by 100% memory.. too tired to look), for $300, you can justify the premium price of the Pro 4 over the Mac... like the fact that it is more portable, lighter, convertible system, touch screen, has a pen digitizer. $800 is harder... but not impossible, depending on your budget. It is definitely a Halo product, an "Nvidia Titan" of computers, if it makes sense.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah that's the thing, even though it seems like too much at first glance, I think this thing might actually be very reasonably priced for what it is.  Cool to see, especially considering the Surface line... 

For reference, my wife's wireless Wacom cost about $500 and it's the size of an iPad...

[vanished]

Just now, ARikozuM said:

For reference, my wife's wireless Wacom cost about $500 and it's the size of an iPad...

Well, those aren't exactly a good way to compare ... you can get drawing tablets that work just as well for like 1/7th the cost from other companies (Huion for example)

 

[ARikozuM]

2 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Well, those aren't exactly a good way to compare ... you can get drawing tablets that work just as well for like 1/7th the cost from other companies (Huion for example)

 

Just giving reference seeing how versatile the Surface Studio is. Rather than needing to buy the tablet, it's built in.

[vanished]

6 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

Just giving reference seeing how versatile the Surface Studio is. Rather than needing to buy the tablet, it's built in.

And there's something to be said for drawing right on the screen rather than externally on a blank thing.  There's a reason the highest end drawing "pads" are usually monitor combo units

[Bleedingyamato]

14 hours ago, M.Yurizaki said:

It looks like all of the PC's guts are in the stand, not in the monitor itself. Which means it's basically like a laptop (kind of).

It kind of looks like MS took a Mac Mini and attached a monitor to it.  ?

[vanished]

Another thing I find interesting is Microsoft seems to really like this 3:2 aspect ratio... it started in the surfaces (afaik) and they've not only continued using it there but put it in their desktop now as well, when they definitely wouldn't have had to (since it's a totally custom display as far as I can tell).  In a world where we went from 16:10 to 16:9 and then 21:9, it's interesting to see them going in the opposite direction.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

Another thing I find interesting is Microsoft seems to really like this 3:2 aspect ratio... it started in the surfaces (afaik) and they've not only continued using it there but put it in their desktop now as well, when they definitely wouldn't have had to (since it's a totally custom display as far as I can tell).  In a world where we went from 16:10 to 16:9 and then 21:9, it's interesting to see them going in the opposite direction.

3:2 is better for drawing (supposedly), so it makes perfect sense why they did it. 

[Nowak]

8 hours ago, LAwLz said:

In what world does Microsoft think this piece of shit AIO is worth 3000 dollars? I wouldn't even pay 1/3 of that for it.

 

The screen seems nice, but for crying out loud it's a core i5, 8GB of RAM, a 1TB "hybrid storage" (as in, it's probably a hard drive with a small SSD cache) and a GTX 965M.

Wanna bet that you can't upgrade it either? So have fun throwing out that 3,000 dollar piece of crap in one go when you want to upgrade.

"Ohh but you can get it with a 980M and a 2TB hard drive if you want!". Yeah, for 4,200 dollars. I could buy a much better desktop, several monitors, some great peripherals and a few hookers and still have money over.

 

It looks nice in the commercial, but the product is shit and the price is terrible. It doesn't even have an up-to-date GPU.

Oh and at that resolution you will have to use the Windows scaling options which makes me want to gouge my eyes out.

It's like Apple, you have to pay for every pixel on the display.

 

Jokes aside, someone else pointed out that hybrid 27" 1440p drawing tablets/monitors alone start at $2800 for the wicked good ones. Plus, this works as a computer. So, a $3000 starting point isn't too off the charts if you're gonna use it for art. Upgrades do concern me, though, since AIOs have historically never been upgrade-friendly.

[RotoCoreOne]

Anyone else feel like this new surface book should've been the initial release?