Macs are 3x cheaper than Windows based PCs says IBM

[mrchow19910319]

7 hours ago, bobhays said:

Just curious what part made you want to ditch windows?

Multitasking, I think macs can be more productive. A lot of software works better on Mac. For example, evernote. Even my vpn software works better on mac sometimes... It all depends on whether you used to it or not. 

[PCGuy_5960]

Actually, Windows PCs are way cheaper when compared to Macs (A Custom PC similar to an iMac 5K costs 2/5 of the price) The only thing you gain is resell value, as people are willing to spend much on an old machine, simply because it is a Mac...

And of course, you can't sell your $5000 PC for $1000 after 8 years, as PC Builders tend to do more research into the performance aspect and would therefore not buy something that is that old... (You would be able to sell your Mac for that much though)

[PCGuy_5960]

48 minutes ago, SCHISCHKA said:

The price comparison with all in one PCs is in line with the likes of Dell too.

Yes, but, instead of an AIO PC, you can build a custom PC with a monitor and get better performance for the same price... Honestly, pre-built systems suck for the price (most of the time)

[Dabombinable]

31 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

Multitasking, I think macs can be more productive. A lot of software works better on Mac. For example, evernote. Even my vpn software works better on mac sometimes... It all depends on whether you used to it or not. 

I think anything will run better if its not being used with or under Windows, Eg. This laptop's A8 4555M with Ubuntu 16.04 and default drivers (no screwing around with them since its a modern laptop-with a good 240GB SSD) handles all tasks far better than it did under Windows 10. And that's still after I saw consecutive performance improvements going from Windows 8 to 8.1 then 10. Windows biggest and one of the few good points, is that most software is designed to run on it.

[SCHISCHKA]

3 minutes ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, but, instead of an AIO PC, you can build a custom PC with a monitor and get better performance for the same price... Honestly, pre-built systems suck for the price (most of the time)

it makes sense for you to build your own machine, and it makes sense for a small business; however not many businesses will build their own pc's. they have to factor in labour costs and the OEM warranties. Work for a company with 100+ pc's and you'll see why pre-built machines exist despite the extra $ they cost.

 

On that note iv had small business owner friends show me quotes for upgrades and its unbelievable how scammy the PC industry is. I had one that was a quote for $2000 for a f@#$ing ex-lease system that was no better than the one they had

[Valentyn]

2 hours ago, Dabombinable said:

exFAT is in a similar state to NTFS. Solely owned by Microsoft and pretty much  working the best under Windows (though that might be different under Linux, since it can handle NTFS just fine)

Never had an issue with exFAT with OS X, and OS X has no issues reading from NTFS drives.

I often had drives always in NTFS since the raw video files would be from Windows systems, and I could simply read and edit from those drives in OS X.

Then I simple exported to an exFAT drive when done so every other system had access to them. 
You can also get some software ( paragon ) on OS X that allows it to both Read and Write to NTFS, although I've never needed it before.

I would love if everyone adopted a new modern filesystem that's crossplatform, but that's wishful thinking; as much as MS dropping DX for Vulkan.

[Dabombinable]

5 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Never had an issue with exFAT with OS X, and OS X has no issues reading from NTFS drives.

I often had drives always in NTFS since the raw video files would be from Windows systems, and I could simply read and edit from those drives in OS X.

Then I simple exported to an exFAT drive when done so every other system had access to them. 

You can also get some software on OS X that allows it to both Read and Write to NTFS, although I've never needed it before.

Things must have been improved then-I last used OSX at Leopard and I could only read NTFS (at the time I was using a naked 2.5" 60GB HDD+PATA to USB adapter-it maxed out USB 2.0 ports without fail). Writing to NTFS and exFAT is what I'm talking about, and looking around it seems that is now possible (even under Linux though that does require support for exFAT to be manually added)

[Valentyn]

15 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Things must have been improved then-I last used OSX at Leopard and I could only read NTFS (at the time I was using a naked 2.5" 60GB HDD+PATA to USB adapter-it maxed out USB 2.0 ports without fail)

Everything changed with with Mountain Lion. Shame they haven't managed to get something out as rock solid as Snow Leopard though, Lion was a goddamn mess.

 They're still better overall than Windows IMO, but I wish Apple would get off their high chair and support Vulkan and stop trying to hide/remove power user options and functionality.

[mrchow19910319]

24 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Windows biggest and one of the few good points, is that most software is designed to run on it.

And it can play games... That's it.

You just said everything I wanna say....

I saw someone posting I can't remember whether is here or reddit.

He use linux everyday to do his work. So he bought a macbook and run linux on it.... >.<

That alone say something about windows and pc who run windows on it isn't it???  

[Dabombinable]

2 minutes ago, Valentyn said:

Everything changed with with Mountain Lion. Shame they haven't managed to get something out as rock solid as Snow Leopard though, Lion was a goddamn mess.

 They're still better overall than Windows IMO, but I wish Apple would get off their high chair and support Vulkan and stop trying to power user options and functionality.

TBH Leopard was the version of OSX that makes me to this day toy with the idea of a hackintosh. And with the stunt Apple pulled with the iPad pro (pay a lot extra for the dock+pen which made it useful for productivity) I don't hold up any hopes for their power user or professional orientated products. Because even Samsung at the very least includes the sPen on business grade devices.

[Dabombinable]

7 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

And it can play games... That's it.

You just said everything I wanna say....

I saw someone posting I can't remember whether is here or reddit.

He use linux everyday to do his work. So he bought a macbook and run linux on it.... >.<

That alone say something about windows and pc who run windows on it isn't it???  

I'm using Ubuntu on this laptop right now since I couldn't be bothered digging out my Windows 10 installation USB. And since the APU's TDP limit means that games are only playable for a short time before it TDP (not thermal) throttles, its been no loss and I can actually use this laptop now (even Oblivion ran like shit no matter what settings I ran it at or if I used the unofficial patch), unlike my old+dead laptop with its Phenom II N970 and weaker Mobility Radeon HD5650). Games are the 1 thing this laptop (nicknamed "the lemon") can't do in any semblance of the word well, so it will never be running Windows again. My desktop with my GTX 970 is another story, as that was built around playing games.

 

Edit: BTW, Ubuntu has similar RAM usage to Windows 10, doesn't thrash the swap/page file, and despite using a similar amount of resources looks better as well as runs a shitload better. Windows in general is bloated AF unless your using XP and prior.

[Linus_torvalds]

On 10/21/2016 at 5:33 AM, Ryan_Vickers said:

That's not what this article is about.  In fact it even admitted macs are overpriced compared to PCs.  The point is that the users on macs typically needed less tech support and less frequent upgrades, and that saved them money over time, in a net sense.

My friend had macbook pro. Something was wrong with it's storage. When he went to the store turned out he had to give big money for changing it. He got SSD specificaly for mac. But if it was PC he could have bought 3 times bigger storage SSD, or same storage size with ~3 times less money.

 

Repairing mac costs much much more then PCs!!!! In the end cost for mac raizes even more compare to PC then in the begining

[Guest]

I can confirm this applies to consumers too...

(Of course it does).

[79wjd]

4 hours ago, mate_mate91 said:

My friend had macbook pro. Something was wrong with it's storage. When he went to the store turned out he had to give big money for changing it. He got SSD specificaly for mac. But if it was PC he could have bought 3 times bigger storage SSD, or same storage size with ~3 times less money.

 

Repairing mac costs much much more then PCs!!!! In the end cost for mac raizes even more compare to PC then in the begining

I guess you've never had to pay for a repair from Dell, HP, or any other OEM. Repair costs are all stupidly high (although Apple's are a bit higher).

[Sauron]

Nonsense. It's less epxensive if your IT department doesn't know what they are doing. The on purchase savings are also way higher than they claim - assuming whoever's in charge knows what to buy.

On 21/10/2016 at 3:56 AM, CBojorges said:

You're comparing a laptop with a desktop. Also for many jobs you don't need such an overkill computer. 

 

What I like about macs is that they are better for programming (altolhou I prefer Linux) and are far more stable than Windows IMO. 

You said it yourself, Linux is the answer. (Or a hackintosh)

On 21/10/2016 at 3:55 AM, Windspeed36 said:

 

Let's look at a business of 500 seats over 4 years - the average lifespan for a deployment. Pricing is based on Synnex Australia RRP.

 

We'll need Office Pro (Skype Business/Lync) and Exchange licensing.

 

Cloud - $432,200 total cost

Office 365 Business Premium (Office Pro suite, 50GB custom domain Inbox) - $216.10/user (annual)=    $432,200

 

On Premise - $507,709 minimum cost.

Office Pro Plus - $900/user (perpetual) = $452,500

Exchange Enterprise 2016 - $7,209

Exchange Enterprise User CAL - $96 x 500 - $48,000

 

 

You're looking at $75k more expensive over 4 years at minimum - you'll then also have things like file and print server licensing, SQL licensing and any terminal environment stuff that is required.

Wouldn't you need exactly the same licenses on mac os? Or are alternatives to that software only acceptable if they have an apple on them?

[Commodus]

6 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Actually, Windows PCs are way cheaper when compared to Macs (A Custom PC similar to an iMac 5K costs 2/5 of the price) The only thing you gain is resell value, as people are willing to spend much on an old machine, simply because it is a Mac...

And of course, you can't sell your $5000 PC for $1000 after 8 years, as PC Builders tend to do more research into the performance aspect and would therefore not buy something that is that old... (You would be able to sell your Mac for that much though)

Sorry, but this is objectively false.

 

Go shopping for a 5K stand-alone display from Dell or HP.  Go on, I'll wait.  Oh, that's right: they cost $1,999 by themselves, while a 5K iMac starts at $1,799.  Buy a 5K Apple display, get a free computer attached!

 

And your statement on resale value is an exaggeration.  You'd have trouble selling an 8-year-old Mac for anything other than nostalgia value, and it wouldn't go for $1,000.  It's a bit condescending, too, since plenty of Mac buyers will do their homework.  If I'm honest, it sounds like you're clinging to old stereotypes of Macs to help justify your preference for Windows.

 

Preferring Windows PCs is fine!  They're better gaming machines, typically run more specialized apps, and offer more hardware choices.  But you don't need to put down Macs to feel good about your choice.  Macs sometimes represent great value, and there's an ease of use to them that's harder to quantify.  I could easily switch back to a Windows 10 PC if I wanted, but I really don't have a desire to do it.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

Sorry, but this is objectively false.

 

Go shopping for a 5K stand-alone display from Dell or HP.  Go on, I'll wait.  Oh, that's right: they cost $1,999 by themselves, while a 5K iMac starts at $1,799.  Buy a 5K Apple display, get a free computer attached!

 

And your statement on resale value is an exaggeration.  You'd have trouble selling an 8-year-old Mac for anything other than nostalgia value, and it wouldn't go for $1,000.  It's a bit condescending, too, since plenty of Mac buyers will do their homework.  If I'm honest, it sounds like you're clinging to old stereotypes of Macs to help justify your preference for Windows.

Yes, but that Dell monitor doesn't thermal throttle. (/joke)

 

Macs do retain their value better over time. Obviously that doesn't mean they barely depreciate, just that they just depreciate less than a comparable windows computer. Part of that is due to less competition and fewer sales, and part of that is due to older Macs holding up better (Macs have better build quality than most laptops today, and that was FAR more relevant years ago when basically all windows laptops had terrible build quality) -- not only in build quality but actual usability. My 2007 MBP with 4gb of RAM, a C2D, and an ssd still felt snappier (up to and including Mavericks, Yosemite was kind of bad on older hardware and I replaced it around Mavericks) than my XPS 15 with an 840qm, 8gb of RAM, and an ssd (in general tasks -- such as internet, email, etc...).

[Linus_torvalds]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I guess you've never had to pay for a repair from Dell, HP, or any other OEM. Repair costs are all stupidly high (although Apple's are a bit higher).

You are right! I live in Georgia, Europe. You can see it on map it's beside black sea.

Here in my country these companies either do not have official repair service or i do not know about them, but it's highly unlikely.

I had PC and did not had to repair anything. Just once my 2 weeks old PSU which i had bought from amazon died and 3 rd party service could not repair and i had to throw it

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Sauron said:

Nonsense. It's less epxensive if your IT department doesn't know what they are doing. The on purchase savings are also way higher than they claim - assuming whoever's in charge knows what to buy.

You said it yourself, Linux is the answer. (Or a hackintosh)

Wouldn't you need exactly the same licenses on mac os? Or are alternatives to that software only acceptable if they have an apple on them?

No - licensing can be done somewhat differently with MacOS.

[SurvivorNVL]

If Apple could run games well--I'd be on that.  Hopefully they push for further game support, given eGPU enclosures are being thrust in to the world - maybe we'll be able to have a decent MacBook or MacBook Pro run an eGPU to it, and game on the OSX platform.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, Windspeed36 said:

No - licensing can be done somewhat differently with MacOS.

How so? (just curious)

54 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

If Apple could run games well--I'd be on that.  Hopefully they push for further game support, given eGPU enclosures are being thrust in to the world - maybe we'll be able to have a decent MacBook or MacBook Pro run an eGPU to it, and game on the OSX platform.

Only if Apple and game devs embrace Vulkan (I'd love if they did since I do prefer OS X).

[MSWindowsinside]

As far as I know you can't set GPOs on a Mac which makes using it in an enterprise environment virtually impossible. I think IBM doesn't understand what they're doing.

[othertomperson]

14 hours ago, PCGuy_5960 said:

Yes, but, instead of an AIO PC, you can build a custom PC with a monitor and get better performance for the same price... Honestly, pre-built systems suck for the price (most of the time)

THEN WHY ARE YOU BLAMING APPLE FOR THE PRICE OF DELL'S AIOS?

 

Christ, the only way people can claim that these high resolution thin-and-light laptops, with Broadwell i7 CPUs and dedicated GPUs in them are overpriced is by comparing them with a custom DESKTOP as if these are remotely measured comparisons. Compare them to anything that is actually an equivalent and you'll see that they are all about the same. If you can build a thin and light laptop yourself, knock yourself out but unless you regularly take your tower and monitor on planes with you don't try to pretend that desktops and ultrabooks are comparable.

 

This isn't even considering the fact that if you want a workstation equivalent to their Mac Pros you'll spend more on GPUs (dual FirePro W9000s) than you would for the entire Max Pro. If you wanted something akin to their 5K iMac you would have spent as much on the monitor by itself as you would have done on the whole iMac -- and because you wouldn't have had an AIO you would have been forced to use a janky multi-DP connector or run the thing at 30 Hz due to bandwidth limitations that existed at the time.

[SurvivorNVL]

27 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

How so? (just curious)

Only if Apple and game devs embrace Vulkan (I'd love if they did since I do prefer OS X).

I do deeply hope they embrace Vulkan, but with how they are with Metal on the Phone, I have a feeling they may try to have it on the Mac, never know.

[79wjd]

21 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

I do deeply hope they embrace Vulkan, but with how they are with Metal on the Phone, I have a feeling they may try to have it on the Mac, never know.

Metal's been pushed on OSX since Yosemite.