Macs are 3x cheaper than Windows based PCs says IBM

[Bleedingyamato]

20 minutes ago, jaggysnake57 said:

sorry for the multi post but da fuq?  i get 5 copies of office and 5 lots of 1TB cloud storage for £7 a month how is that a scam?

Because it's still a reoccurring fee vs a one time purchase.  Your basically renting vs owning MS Office.

 

I've got a copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010 that I got in 2012 I believe it was.  I paid $90 USD for it.  Now regardless of how much a year of 365 is I still paid a fixed cost for that copy of office 2010.  I'm still using it now and I'll be able to continue using it for years to come.  All without spending a single additional dollar.

 

Heck, I've got office 2007 on my old laptop that I still use to do college schoolwork on that is still usable for everything anyone could need for typing up word documents including saving files as either .doc or .docx depending on what a professor wants.  That copy of 2007 was part of a 3 license pack just like the copy of 2010 so there's 6 licenses between the two packs.  I'm just using the 1 license for 2007 since the others are being used by other family members but the 2010 pack is all mine.  So I've got 4 copies of MS Office all to myself that do anything anyone could need them for that I'll never have to pay for ever again.

 

While you get to enjoy ( /s ) a fee for every month and year that you feel like renting MS Office from Microsoft.  

[bobhays]

4 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

Pretty much agree with this, yes. I would prefer Finder and its tags + tabs, however. But otherwise pretty much the same IMO. Searching or macOS is a shit load (yes, that's a technical term) faster than Windows on similar M.2 NVMe SSDs. 

Personally I thought Windows 7 search was freaking magnificent. I use a search program for 8 that makes it basically the same. I think it's better than any other search I've used even Q10 (I hate the internet search I just want local files and settings goddammit. And make them smaller so I can see more) 

8 minutes ago, abazigal said:

Well, my 2011 iMac is still going strong, and working as well as the day I got it without me needing to do anything to maintain it. Contrast it with the numerous windows PCs I owned prior to this, where they would all inevitably slow down within months of getting them. 

 

OS X also came with quite a few useful apps back then, such as preview (very capable PDF management tool), iMovie and iTunes (surprisingly useful for ripping CDs). 

 

Basically, I found I spent way less time babying my hardware, which meant more time available to focus on just getting stuff done. I realize the value of a hassle-free user experience can't really be quantified into dollars and cents here, but to me, getting a Mac has been worth every cent to me. 

I really never understood maintaining a Windows PC. I've never done anything to maintain my PCs before. The only thing thing I can think of is tech illiterate people who install a ton of programs they don't need and run at startup.

 

Also imovie > movie maker but WMP > iTunes.

 

And what do you mean by babying your hardware? 

[jaggysnake57]

5 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

Because it's still a reoccurring fee vs a one time purchase.  Your basically renting vs owning MS Office.

 

I've got a copy of MS Office Home and Student 2010 that I got in 2012 I believe it was.  I paid $90 USD for it.  Now regardless of how much a year of 365 is I still paid a fixed cost for that copy of office 2010.  I'm still using it now and I'll be able to continue using it for years to come.  All without spending a single additional dollar.

 

Heck, I've got office 2007 on my old laptop that I still use to do college schoolwork on that is still usable for everything anyone could need for typing up word documents including saving files as either .doc or .docx depending on what a professor wants.  That copy of 2007 was part of a 3 license pack just like the copy of 2010 so there's 6 licenses between the two packs.  I'm just using the 1 license for 2007 since the others are being used by other family members but the 2010 pack is all mine.  So I've got 4 copies of MS Office all to myself that do anything anyone could need them for that I'll never have to pay for ever again.

 

While you get to enjoy ( /s ) a fee for every month and year that you feel like renting MS Office from Microsoft.  

 5tb of storage and 5 copies of office for £7 a month, 5 TB of cloud storage is going to be more than £7 a month but still derp "its not yours so its a scam"

[Dabombinable]

16 minutes ago, abazigal said:

Well, my 2011 iMac is still going strong, and working as well as the day I got it without me needing to do anything to maintain it. Contrast it with the numerous windows PCs I owned prior to this, where they would all inevitably slow down within months of getting them. 

 

OS X also came with quite a few useful apps back then, such as preview (very capable PDF management tool), iMovie and iTunes (surprisingly useful for ripping CDs). 

 

Basically, I found I spent way less time babying my hardware, which meant more time available to focus on just getting stuff done. I realize the value of a hassle-free user experience can't really be quantified into dollars and cents here, but to me, getting a Mac has been worth every cent to me. 

Well its kind of obvious. Your older Windows based PC had older hardware-simple as that, because even this laptop when it was running Windows (Linux seems to handle AMD's APU far better) didn't get slowed down at all by updates-it even got a small seed boost at times. Either way, the fact is that Apple's computers aren't as good for productivity due to their very poor hardware (excluding the PCIe SSD in newer models), meaning that OSX is held back in regards to productivity (excellent OS, very poor value hardware being used with it)

[RedRound2]

 

6 hours ago, Steeve said:

• snip

 

 

Did you just compare a desktop to laptop in terms of pricing? Wow, how the heck do you understand the technical language Linus and Luke speak in?

[Bleedingyamato]

16 minutes ago, QueenDemetria said:

I used to agree with this, but with Microsoft doing major UI overhauls and re-locating shit with their three most recent OS's it's no wonder why people are struggling with Win 8, then 8.1, and now 10. When Windows 7 was new, it was pretty much like Vista, which  was pretty much like XP, which was pretty much like W2K, and 98, and 95(and no I didn't forget ME, fuck WinME). 

 

I consider myself fluent with confusers(hah, I'm leaving this AC), but when I First used Win 10 it pissed me off since even the simplist things like Control panel aren't where they used to be, and that is just the start. Win 8 really had me salty for the same reasons.

 

On the other hand, my wife is primarily a Mac user(Linux Mint otherwise), and when I brought home a first gen MacBook today(running leopard 10.5), she used it no probelm, since it's fairly similar to whatever the current Mac OS is today. I use her MacBook(2015 model) sometimes and I can clearly see the similarities between the old  and new Mac OS, playing around with my "new" CrackBook was easy since the OS was familiar.

 

Of course, companies could just train people on how to use these 'machines', but that costs money(probably more than tech support), and if they have to re-train workers every 2-4 years then OS X's "same shit as last year" looks compelling.

8 was a train wreck I agree but 10 isn't bad once you get a little used to it.  Coming from 7 I really didn't have much trouble.  Though considering I was moving to an OS 2 versions newer than what I was used to that's understandable.  

 

I will say I miss XP very much and 7 will be always have a fluffy place in my heart. ?

 

I don't think training would be that costly or hard if implemented properly.  Companies could so large scale training courses and/or make up video lectures to record and distribute to employees for them to study to give a few ideas.  Also cost efficiency is why I said to also use reference materials. (books, videos, audiobooks, etc.)  Providing those to employees might not have to cost too much and would allow employees to refer to their materials as needed without reoccurring costs. 

 

 

[bobhays]

4 minutes ago, Bleedingyamato said:

8 was a train wreck I agree but 10 isn't bad once you get a little used to it.  Coming from 7 I really didn't have much trouble.  Though considering I was moving to an OS 2 versions newer than what I was used to that's understandable.  

 

I will say I miss XP very much and 7 will be always have a fluffy place in my heart. ?

 

I don't think training would be that costly or hard if implemented properly.  Companies could so large scale training courses and/or make up video lectures to record and distribute to employees for them to study to give a few ideas.  Also cost efficiency is why I said to also use reference materials. (books, videos, audiobooks, etc.)  Providing those to employees might not have to cost too much and would allow employees to refer to their materials as needed without reoccurring costs. 

 

 

I'd like to mention 2 things. 1 it's not just about the cost of training but also the time wasted doing the training and less efficient work. 2 that being said I really think Windows versions didn't change that much over the years. The biggest difference was the metro interface (which I got rid of using a start button program). Other than that everything is the same basically. 

[Bleedingyamato]

33 minutes ago, jaggysnake57 said:

 5tb of storage and 5 copies of office for £7 a month, 5 TB of cloud storage is going to be more than £7 a month but still derp "its not yours so its a scam"

I've got 4 copies and $0 a month.  But sure, you go ahead and keep saying you've got the better deal.  ?

[abazigal]

31 minutes ago, bobhays said:

I really never understood maintaining a Windows PC. I've never done anything to maintain my PCs before. The only thing thing I can think of is tech illiterate people who install a ton of programs they don't need and run at startup.

 

Also imovie > movie maker but WMP > iTunes.

 

And what do you mean by babying your hardware? 

Well, things got so bad that at one point, it was taking my desktop about 10 minutes to start up and load the apps. And I already disabled many of the apps. I recall playing Warcraft 3, then witnessing loading times slowing dramatically, and I basically had to defrag my hard drive every day just to maintain the status quo. Plus my windows desktops slowed down to the point where I was replacing them every 2+ years. 

 

I recall getting two major virus attacs, though AVG took care of them. Contrast with my Mac, zero attacks and I don't have any anti virus software installed. 

 

Oh yes, and OS X had one super cool feature where I could take a screenshot with a keyboard shortcut. Very handy. 

 

Can't say I have tried WMP. I do know that once, I need to copy a few audio files from a listening comprehension CD from school to pass to my colleagues. Slot it into my imac's cd drive, and iTunes launches, with a prompt asking me if I wanted to extract its contents. Minutes later, the job was done. I was like "?". 

 

It's all these little conveniences that add up to a more seamless Mac user experience for me. 

 

I know - I must come across as some tech idiot here, and you are all probably laughing and going "You could have solved this problem by doing X" but these are my genuine experiences. In short, the problems I was experiencing with my windows PCs all but went away after I switched to a Mac, without me needing to do anything extra or different. The only downside was losing access to my Windows game collection, but given that I had recently joined the workforce then, not being able to play games turned out to be a hidden blessing in disguise.  

[Bleedingyamato]

17 minutes ago, bobhays said:

I'd like to mention 2 things. 1 it's not just about the cost of training but also the time wasted doing the training and less efficient work. 2 that being said I really think Windows versions didn't change that much over the years. The biggest difference was the metro interface (which I got rid of using a start button program). Other than that everything is the same basically. 

Transitioning to Macs isn't guaranteed to be hassle free and will likely cause a period of reduced productivity while employees get used to the new OS.  Also, training and reference materials doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg depending on how it's done.

 

Vista and 8 were the standout black sheep but yeah 8 was really the only overly dramatic change to Windows IMO.  

 

It's not just whether or not Windows has changed that's the issue but you make a good point that it's part the issues users may have with Windows.  

 

The rest is that the average Windows user may not know how to avoid or fix as many issues with Windows as would be helpful.  Especially in a business environment where time is money.

 

 

 

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, FloRolf said:

I don't get why windows people need more tech support. I literally never needed tech support for OS problems. 

 

And also, what OS are they actually using? Having all PCs on W10? Most likely not because apparently it's too much of a hassle to update OS more frequently. But switching to Mac? Ez pz? 

 

That's some massive BS imho. 

Exactly. I've only gone to support for either hardware problem or  a specific software I use (the only time I can recall was trying to recover a file in OneDrive)

[fade]

This is what they meant when they said freedom has a price.

[Dabombinable]

19 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

Exactly. I've only gone to support for either hardware problem or  a specific software I use (the only time I can recall was trying to recover a file in OneDrive)

And lets be honest-most of the tech support Microsoft provides ends up in "re-install Windows".

[AlTech]

1 minute ago, Dabombinable said:

And lets be honest-most of the tech support Microsoft provides ends up in "re-install Windows".

That's the scary part. This is the generic de facto answer to a Windows issue. If the Tech support don't know what to do then just re-install Windows...

[Dabombinable]

3 minutes ago, AluminiumTech said:

That's the scary part. This is the generic de facto answer to a Windows issue. If the Tech support don't know what to do then just re-install Windows...

The biggest problem for me to date so far still remains unsolved for over 5 years-Windows Update on Windows 7 maxing out the 4GB of RAM in my laptop, and its Phenom II N970

[Senzelian]

I play games. 

I use Windows. 

 

For me Linux and iOS don't exist. 

[FloRolf]

21 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

And lets be honest-most of the tech support Microsoft provides ends up in "re-install Windows".

I disagree with that on an enterprise level. I'm sure that every larger company has it's computers stored on a server (kinda, you know what I mean...) and they only reset your account and you are done if the problem is actually unsolvable which I don't think occurs often. 

[Dabombinable]

7 minutes ago, FloRolf said:

I disagree with that on an enterprise level. I'm sure that every larger company has it's computers stored on a server (kinda, you know what I mean...) and they only reset your account and you are done if the problem is actually unsolvable which I don't think occurs often. 

Files stored separately, things go wrong and the normal thing to do is re-image the computer or re-install.

[Valentyn]

I honestly really miss OS X, it was the best OS I ever used; and FCPX was fantastic as well.

 

It was cheaper than the competition, significantly faster, and I loved the workflow with it.

If I didn't hate hassle so much I'd have a Hackintosh right now, but since Apple has abandoned the Mac Pro I'm on a custom windows 10 machine for Premiere Pro. PP is meh, and barely able to use all the system resources available.

I do hope MS truly get better with their underlying OS.

[VerticalDiscussions]

Well, if operating system support is the issue, then whatever the IBM employees are doing doesnt require more stocky hardware to compensate lol.

 

PS: Now you guys know, if you buy a Washing machine that has an A+++ rating and is said to be using some sort of "Eco Bubble or Green Cycle", youll save 57,3 million dollars in the long run!

 

Wow, the amount of newcomers without brains coming in here bashing one article about costs, which isnt directly refering as to wether PC A or B is better, is filled with Apple hate. Someone push them over a cliff will ya xD, so they can understand something next time.

[Valentyn]

3 hours ago, bobhays said:

Also imovie > movie maker but WMP > iTunes.

 

And what do you mean by babying your hardware? 

 

The new iMovie is brilliant, and a nice stepping stone to get people to try FCPX as well. If you can use iMovie well, you can get to grips with FCPX rather easily.

As for WMP > iTunes, I never used either for videos, for music though I'd pick WMP between the two.

I wish Adobe would pull their finger out and try to actually optimise Premiere Pro to use hardware more. FCPX on a Macbook with its inferior hardware ( compared to massive custom build PCs mentioned in this thread ) still manages to match and beat said systems for video work. All because of how well Apple optmised their software for the hardware at hand.

I know Adobe can't get as deep into it as Apple, but it's a mess when a single 390x is better than SLI 980Tis. All that untapped rendering potential.

 

Also I think what he means by "babying" is that we clean and maintain the overall system a lot more than an average Mac user would.

Then again, when I had my Mac Pros I regularly cleaned those from dust, and made sure rubbish software, and old outdated files and temp files were always removed a well.
 

I think it's more a case of a very computer literate person will just "baby" any of their systems, where as a layman just plugs it in and forgets.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Bleedingyamato said:

365 is essentially a scam by MS to trick people into paying more for an inferior version of a product.

 

They want people to think that more frequent updates and whatever else 365 does different is so much better that people don't care they're just paying for a subscription instead of actually owning a copy of MS Office.

 

MS Office ages very well and even versions well behind the current one still allow files to be created in current formats and other changes to the UI are largely pointless in my experience and sometimes actually make MS Office less user friendly.  

 

So my point is you or a business could go buy copies of MS Office, pay a one time fee, and then use that version for several years before it MIGHT actually become necessary to upgrade to a newer version.

 

Paying a yearly repeating subscription cost is insane by comparison.  A totally pointless waste of money.

No - it doesn't work like that. You see with retail copies of a Microsoft product, you need to keep the physical media around for it and you cannot bundle it into an image. This means two things - firstly, if you've a business with 50+ seats it becomes very difficult to keep track of which license belons where. You're also not allowed to use Office 365 Home/Personal in a business environment as per the EULA. The second issue is that you can't bundle it into an image if you're using a retail product. With a MAK (mass activation key) obtained through Open/VLSC/SPLA/EA, you can create an image for an OS using 1 product key but you can't have that same image use a list of say 500 retail keys.

 

3 hours ago, FloRolf said:

I don't get why windows people need more tech support. I literally never needed tech support for OS problems. 

 

And also, what OS are they actually using? Having all PCs on W10? Most likely not because apparently it's too much of a hassle to update OS more frequently. But switching to Mac? Ez pz? 

 

That's some massive BS imho. 

For the tech support issue, more stuff generally goes wrong with Windows than it does with MacOS - from driver updates to users being able to accidentally change something like a network adapter status. With MacOS the OS updates are also better thought out - I've currently got a list of about 400 new patches to go through to either aprove or disallow for Windows environments - if I accidentally allow a certain patch for say SBS 2011 or 2008 R2 that doesn't play nice with a certain piece of software I could break the functionality of tens of thousands of client endpoints and hundreds of servers, all in production environments.

 

I'm not saying that MacOS avoids this issue entirely however generally there are less recorded issues of patch problems compared to Windows.

 

 

 

-------

 

The issue I'm noticing with the points that a lot of you are raising is that while they are somewhat valid, they are not applicable to an enterprise enviornment - a lot of you seem to be looking at this from the point of view of a tech enthusiast/gamer, not from a corporate/enterprise mindset where one wrong step can affect 10's of thousands of users and cost a huge amount of money in terms of broken SLA's amongst other things.

[Sakkura]

4 hours ago, hey_yo_ said:

Here's my thoughts on macOS Sierra and Windows 10:

 

File Explorer > Finder

Spotlight+Siri ≥ Search+Cortana

Microsoft Edge ≥ Safari

Time Machine > File History

Mission Control > Task View

macOS Mail & Calendar > Windows Mail & Calendar

macOS Split View < Windows 10 Snap

Managing System Updates: macOS > Windows (It's 2016 and Windows Updates are still obtrusive, unlike macOS I can just ignore it without being bothered)

FileVault ≥ BitLocker (Because FileVault doesn't require another macOS version and a TPM chip)

 

Kinda confusing that Windows and MacOS switch sides in that list...

 

Not sure why so many are focusing on Bitlocker. There are plenty of alternatives that are free and don't require TPM. Also, the MacOS version isn't better/cheaper for not using a TPM chip, it's just different - without TPM you're getting a different (lower) level of security.

[Munteanu]

You mean working on a locked down OS is safer and cheaper in a corporate environment? You don't say.

[Space Reptile]

10 hours ago, Steeve said:

15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display (top of the line 512gb version)

oh and that thing thermal throttles so much because apple wants a silent & nice looking computer , so the heatsink is lackluster and the fan is castrated ,

watch linuses 5k imac review for more info 

 

so the 4790k in it is pointless and will never perform 

 

 

edit : before people yell at me , i agree w/ the article , macs ARE more convinient ,

esp in an office enviroment because i can tell you from experience what people do to even Heavely limited and locked windows sytems 

moms 27 browser search bars is nothing compared to what i have seen before in the few weeks i was the IT at our school