Macs are 3x cheaper than Windows based PCs says IBM

[AresKrieger]

So IBM has gone full retard, good to know

 

Or rather the title has

[Belgarathian]

11 hours ago, Valentyn said:

 

The new iMovie is brilliant, and a nice stepping stone to get people to try FCPX as well. If you can use iMovie well, you can get to grips with FCPX rather easily.

As for WMP > iTunes, I never used either for videos, for music though I'd pick WMP between the two.

I wish Adobe would pull their finger out and try to actually optimise Premiere Pro to use hardware more. FCPX on a Macbook with its inferior hardware ( compared to massive custom build PCs mentioned in this thread ) still manages to match and beat said systems for video work. All because of how well Apple optmised their software for the hardware at hand.

I know Adobe can't get as deep into it as Apple, but it's a mess when a single 390x is better than SLI 980Tis. All that untapped rendering potential.

 

Also I think what he means by "babying" is that we clean and maintain the overall system a lot more than an average Mac user would.

Then again, when I had my Mac Pros I regularly cleaned those from dust, and made sure rubbish software, and old outdated files and temp files were always removed a well.
 

I think it's more a case of a very computer literate person will just "baby" any of their systems, where as a layman just plugs it in and forgets.

OS X auto defragged any file over 20mb too, so it had a lot of useful things going on in the background to make sure it was ship-shape. Something Windows 8 (maybe 7?) also used. 

[Belgarathian]

47 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

So IBM has gone full retard, good to know

 

Or rather the title has

IBM has a heavy involvement in Swift - Apple's open-sourced language. The title (particularly the 3x cheaper) is based on the help deck costs, but they have said that the cost of using Apple devices is cheaper per unit than equivalent windows devices for their use scenario. 

[AresKrieger]

3 minutes ago, Belgarathian said:

heavy involvement in Swift

Well that would help I guess, though I haven't a clue why they would be using it tbh, it doesn't seem like it would be the best option but open source is a plus I suppose

[Belgarathian]

6 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Well that would help I guess, though I haven't a clue why they would be using it tbh, it doesn't seem like it would be the best option but open source is a plus I suppose

One of IBMs focuses is in enterprise mobile app development

[AresKrieger]

1 hour ago, Belgarathian said:

One of IBMs focuses is in enterprise mobile app development

Ah that makes sense for non x86 processing

[Qwerty2323]

I have no expierance with macs but I can for sure say few times I had to work with it for couple minutes was teribly hard and made no sence how to do anything there.

As for windows it is mainly driver issue, for once I would like windows that can run software with no issues but I have to check at my gpu drivers constantly, wi fi issues on windows 10 is just biggest hate I have for it. 

But still most of time windows 10 works well as long as it is configured well for person to use it by company I think it is good.

 

I think people should just understand nature of pcs and they need some maintance once in few years. 

Not to say pc owners usally do more crap than mac owners going for free online movies, getting ton more viruses and installing god knows what. 

 

I work a lot in excel for work I thinkit really need all short cuts. Beside excel and games I have no idea what else windows are good at in software level. 

When it comes to hardware that is where windows shine....

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, Qwerty2323 said:

I have no expierance with macs but I can for sure say few times I had to work with it for couple minutes was teribly hard and made no sence how to do anything there.

What was it that you had to do that it was "teribly hard and made no sene"? The two OS's function basically the same with a few minor differences for the vast majority of tasks. My dad was able to use a Mac immediately the first time (and he wasn't particularly good with computers either).

[mrchow19910319]

Snap from reddit.

It cost less for those large companies.

I wonder what about us? Individual consumer?

 

How does mac perform compare to windows machines? 2 machines with the exact same spec which can last longer. 
I am really interested. 

I know for PC we can upgrade anytime we want, we can tear off one or two main component and upgrade those then call it good.

What about mac users??? How long do you guys feel there is a need to upgrade, the older machine cannot make it (or you are preparing to sell it).

Also they say macs have a higher resell value, is it true?? 

If you use mac for a lot of years, and owned multiple of them, answer here.

[mrchow19910319]

On 10/21/2016 at 10:37 AM, Belgarathian said:

 

I'm impressed (mostly) with the strides Windows 10 has made with catching up to macOS on making the experience personal. They've still got a long, long way to go before they fix stupid though. Having control panel, and settings is a bad start. 

I think for an average user, trying to find out where did he/she install the software is a difficult task already when It comes to windows system. 

On a mac, you download the file, drag and drop. 

 

No matter what people say about macs and apple. I still think that macs are a lot easier to use.... 

Have you had any experience about people asking you: "where did I install the software?? why my c drive is full??? " and after you told them where to find the path and set it every time you install something then they think it is too complicated so they do what they do anyway?? After a year they come to you and complain "their pc is getting slower and slower." 

[Qwerty2323]

6 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

What was it that you had to do that it was "teribly hard and made no sene"? The two OS's function basically the same with a few minor differences for the vast majority of tasks. My dad was able to use a Mac immediately the first time (and he wasn't particularly good with computers either).

believe it or not I had to plug in usb stick to play presentation

[Qwerty2323]

But really to keep on this topic my 8 year old top of line pc when it's parts were released can run windows 10 smoothly. If it goes for office work I dont see any issues with lifespan of windows pcs.

Beside lack of ddr2 ram nowadays old stuff is really good. Most notable pc upgrades one could wish for are monitor, ssd and ram for work use.

[mrchow19910319]

On 10/21/2016 at 0:06 PM, bobhays said:

-snip-

If you wanna use mac, use alfred. I have not known one single mac user who does not know/use alfred.

Spotlight is gaaaaaarrrrbage compares to alfred. 

I think you are just not used to macOS. The 1st time  I use it I hated it. Then it grows on me. Then I wanna ditch windows....

And you have to use trackpad and apple keyboard.... then you will find the system easily to navigate and control.

 

Also, last point: everyone knows itunes is one pile of shit..... even apple fanboies know that. 

[79wjd]

21 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

If you wanna use mac, use alfred. I have not known one single mac user who does not know/use alfred.

Spotlight is gaaaaaarrrrbage compares to alfred. 

I think you are just not used to macOS. The 1st time  I use it I hated it. Then it grows on me. Then I wanna ditch windows....

And you have to use trackpad and apple keyboard.... then you will find the system easily to navigate and control.

 

Also, last point: everyone knows itunes is one pile of shit..... even apple fanboies know that. 

I actually don't use Alfred, I've never really had an issue with Spotlight. 

 

49 minutes ago, Qwerty2323 said:

believe it or not I had to plug in usb stick to play presentation

What exactly was it that you had trouble with because OSX handles USB media the same (slightly easier if anything since it puts a shortcut on your desktop) as windows.

[mrchow19910319]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

I actually don't use Alfred, I've never really had an issue with Spotlight. 

Use it... it will change the way you use your mac.

It does for me. A lot of people especially programmers ditched their trackpad/mouse cos you can do (almost) everything in alfred, using keyboard typing a couple of keywords. 

[79wjd]

9 minutes ago, mrchow19910319 said:

Use it... it will change the way you use your mac.

It does for me. A lot of people especially programmers ditched their trackpad/mouse cos you can do (almost) everything in alfred, using keyboard typing a couple of keywords. 

As it is, I only really use my mouse when I'm moving around in a window (i.e. clicking on threads type things). 

[bobhays]

3 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

I actually don't use Alfred, I've never really had an issue with Spotlight. 

 

What exactly was it that you had trouble with because OSX handles USB media the same (slightly easier if anything since it puts a shortcut on your desktop) as windows.

I think it's doesn't work as well with NTFS drives. I also think that's been updated but not sure.

3 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

If you wanna use mac, use alfred. I have not known one single mac user who does not know/use alfred.

Spotlight is gaaaaaarrrrbage compares to alfred. 

I think you are just not used to macOS. The 1st time  I use it I hated it. Then it grows on me. Then I wanna ditch windows....

And you have to use trackpad and apple keyboard.... then you will find the system easily to navigate and control.

 

Also, last point: everyone knows itunes is one pile of shit..... even apple fanboies know that. 

Just curious what part made you want to ditch windows?

3 hours ago, Erik Sieghart said:

Obviously.

 

When you control the hardware as tightly as Apple does, the engineering parameters are slimmer, and so too are the errors associated with it. That's just basic. They're also working off of Unix, so its had a long time for other people to work out Unix bugs and problems.

Please stop quoting this "When you control the hardware as tightly as Apple does, the engineering parameters are slimmer, and so too are the errors associated with it." Apple has as much control over hardware as does any other manufacturer. That plays no part in why it seems more unified. I understand i'm giving Apple more credit, but credit is given where credit is due. The optimization occurs with the OS and the software, not with the hardware. Also since Apple probably sells more units of each model than any other manufacturer they can spend more on manufacturing.

[79wjd]

23 minutes ago, bobhays said:

I think it's doesn't work as well with NTFS drives. I also think that's been updated but not sure.

 

Just curious what part made you want to ditch windows?

 

Please stop quoting this "When you control the hardware as tightly as Apple does, the engineering parameters are slimmer, and so too are the errors associated with it." Apple has as much control over hardware as does any other manufacturer. That plays no part in why it seems more unified. I understand i'm giving Apple more credit, but credit is given where credit is due. The optimization occurs with the OS and the software, not with the hardware. Also since Apple probably sells more units of each model than any other manufacturer they can spend more on manufacturing.

It didn't support NTFS drives in the past, although apparently that changed in Mountain Lion (I think it was ML...maybe Mavericks). I'm not sure myself since I've just had Paragon NTFS installed forever. But regardless, I wouldn't use that as a reason why OS X is bad since most external drives aren't formatted to NTFS and there are filesystems that windows doesn't support, so. 

 

I also wouldn't buy another windows laptop to use as my main device again. I just vastly prefer OS X to Windows -- largely due to gestures/trackpad interface, but also because I have an iPhone and the seamless integration between the two -- especially Messages/calls/video calls is really nice. On a desktop I'd care less, because it wouldn't have the gesture/trackpad advantage, but it would still have the rest of it. As it is now, I always have my Mac open and am actively using it while I game on my desktop. (Plus I also just prefer the feel of OS X)

 

In all fairness, Dell can't do much in regards to optimizing Windows for the specific hardware they choose (now, of course, Dell could choose all Intel hardware and hardware that's in the Surfaces and such, but that's not the best for their bottom line). 

[abazigal]

5 hours ago, mrchow19910319 said:

Snap from reddit.

It cost less for those large companies.

I wonder what about us? Individual consumer?

 

How does mac perform compare to windows machines? 2 machines with the exact same spec which can last longer. 
I am really interested. 

I know for PC we can upgrade anytime we want, we can tear off one or two main component and upgrade those then call it good.

What about mac users??? How long do you guys feel there is a need to upgrade, the older machine cannot make it (or you are preparing to sell it).

Also they say macs have a higher resell value, is it true?? 

If you use mac for a lot of years, and owned multiple of them, answer here.

Speaking from experience, my first foray into the Apple ecosystem was a 27” iMac I bought in 2011. It's still going strong today (I did pay to have a SSD installed subsequently) and I don't feel pressured to replace it anytime soon. I will probably just use it till the day it dies. 

 

I would consider myself one of those users who aren't comfortable upgrading their own PCs, regardless of how easy the process may be. Getting a new rig would also mean having to transfer all my stuff over, and disposing of the older Mac, so to me, it's an inconvenience I will put off for as long as possible. 

 

Once, when my iMac developed screen problems, AppleCare actually came to my house to bring it back for servicing and brought it back to my house when it was done. A far cry compared to other brands, though I guess one could argue that I am paying for this via AppleCare, so their service better be good. 

 

I can't speak for resale values, never actually having sold one myself. 

 

I guess that's what appeals to me about a Mac. (Generally) hassle free ownership. 

[79wjd]

14 minutes ago, abazigal said:

Speaking from experience, my first foray into the Apple ecosystem was a 27” iMac I bought in 2011. It's still going strong today (I did pay to have a SSD installed subsequently) and I don't feel pressured to replace it anytime soon. I will probably just use it till the day it dies. 

 

I would consider myself one of those users who aren't comfortable upgrading their own PCs, regardless of how easy the process may be. Getting a new rig would also mean having to transfer all my stuff over, and disposing of the older Mac, so to me, it's an inconvenience I will put off for as long as possible. 

 

Once, when my iMac developed screen problems, AppleCare actually came to my house to bring it back for servicing and brought it back to my house when it was done. A far cry compared to other brands, though I guess one could argue that I am paying for this via AppleCare, so their service better be good. 

 

I can't speak for resale values, never actually having sold one myself. 

 

I guess that's what appeals to me about a Mac. (Generally) hassle free ownership. 

Dell also offers home-service on their devices (laptops included) (at least they do/did on their XPS line).

 

Macs do hold their value very well though. 

[Belgarathian]

2 hours ago, abazigal said:

Speaking from experience, my first foray into the Apple ecosystem was a 27” iMac I bought in 2011. It's still going strong today (I did pay to have a SSD installed subsequently) and I don't feel pressured to replace it anytime soon. I will probably just use it till the day it dies. 

 

I would consider myself one of those users who aren't comfortable upgrading their own PCs, regardless of how easy the process may be. Getting a new rig would also mean having to transfer all my stuff over, and disposing of the older Mac, so to me, it's an inconvenience I will put off for as long as possible. 

 

Once, when my iMac developed screen problems, AppleCare actually came to my house to bring it back for servicing and brought it back to my house when it was done. A far cry compared to other brands, though I guess one could argue that I am paying for this via AppleCare, so their service better be good. 

 

I can't speak for resale values, never actually having sold one myself. 

 

I guess that's what appeals to me about a Mac. (Generally) hassle free ownership. 

The Last HP I sent away cost $100, and took 3 weeks to get back (lost all my data, was a screen issue... Assume refurb unit). 

 

Had a late 2008 MBP that a firmware update from Apple killed the logic board in 2012... Apple replaced free of charge in 8 hours free of charge. 

[bobhays]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

It didn't support NTFS drives in the past, although apparently that changed in Mountain Lion (I think it was ML...maybe Mavericks). I'm not sure myself since I've just had Paragon NTFS installed forever. But regardless, I wouldn't use that as a reason why OS X is bad since most external drives aren't formatted to NTFS and there are filesystems that windows doesn't support, so. 

 

I also wouldn't buy another windows laptop to use as my main device again. I just vastly prefer OS X to Windows -- largely due to gestures/trackpad interface, but also because I have an iPhone and the seamless integration between the two -- especially Messages/calls/video calls is really nice. On a desktop I'd care less, because it wouldn't have the gesture/trackpad advantage, but it would still have the rest of it. As it is now, I always have my Mac open and am actively using it while I game on my desktop. (Plus I also just prefer the feel of OS X)

 

In all fairness, Dell can't do much in regards to optimizing Windows for the specific hardware they choose (now, of course, Dell could choose all Intel hardware and hardware that's in the Surfaces and such, but that's not the best for their bottom line). 

I'm not saying that is a reason not to like NTFS MacOS, but external drives might come formatted as NTFS since FAT32 doesn't support greater than 4GB files. Important on an external drive. Unless exFat is the new standard but I dont think it is.

 

EDIT: I mean reason not to like MacOS

[Dabombinable]

1 hour ago, bobhays said:

I'm not saying that is a reason not to like NTFS, but external drives might come formatted as NTFS since FAT32 doesn't support greater than 4GB files. Important on an external drive. Unless exFat is the new standard but I dont think it is.

exFAT is in a similar state to NTFS. Solely owned by Microsoft and pretty much  working the best under Windows (though that might be different under Linux, since it can handle NTFS just fine)

[Mark77]

Perhaps the Macs are deployed to subsets of users who are less likely to call "support" to have their problems resolved, versus PCs? 

 

For instance, you put a software developer on a Mac.  They sure as heck aren't going to be calling "support" to have something fixed for them.  But the travelling salesperson with the laptop and VPN connections on a PC may very well be constantly utilizing tech support because they lack the expertise to do much on their own other than use the standard apps. 

 

As far as AppleCare, you can buy that from the "PC" vendors no problem. 

[SCHISCHKA]

to the ones who don't read the article but want to compare hardware costs, compare the costs of the i7 models. the price isn't bad for an i7 laptop. The price comparison with all in one PCs is in line with the likes of Dell too. The only thing Mac doesn't do is thin clients but a mac mini price isn't far off a thin client, and thin client solutions are horrible things to use IMO.

 

For the software price and support argument, iv worked with microsoft for a few years and the cost of the operating system is not cheap. Microsoft makes a lot of money from their Software Assurance (upgrade rights) cash cow. Upgrades to sierra from Lion are free, and upgrades to Seirra are available for macs dating back to 2009. That is pretty damn good. Microsoft only gave a free upgrade for a limited time and not many liked it even though it was free.

 

On 10/21/2016 at 2:39 PM, Belgarathian said:

Wow, I didn't know it was that bad for businesses. Ouch!

its worse than you can imagine. they let you install whatever you want and then they audit you several years later and stick you with massive bills. They monopolised the market with cheap shoddy software and anyone who depends on them for their IT infrastructure is going to get screwed by them.

On 10/21/2016 at 2:56 PM, Centurius said:

About to get even worse with their licensing per core rather than per socket on the server os.

yep thats part of their move from an OEM supplier to a cloud service provider (azure). The minimum license requirements for windows server 2016 are going to screw over a number of small businesses.