Apple Announces the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus

[SansVarnic]

This video pretty much sums it up for me. Why anyone would buy an iPhone any more is beyond me.

 

 

[79wjd]

13 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

This video pretty much sums it up for me. Why anyone would buy an iPhone any more is beyond me.

 

 

I would seriously consider upgrading if I can sell my 64gb 6s+ for enough or if my dad wants it. 

 

The 7+ has a better camera, better display, more storage, it's faster (irrelevant for me) and water resistant (irrelevant, but nice...). The only tradeoff being the lack of a 3.5mm port, which really doesn't affect me. And yes, I could get an S7, but I hate touchwiz; I could get a OP3, but I enjoy having some form of actual support; I could get a 6P but the build quality is lackluster. Plus I have a Mac and iMessage/phone/video calls syncing seamlessly is a really nice feature and unfortunately Android still doesn't have anything quite as good. And I also happen to prefer iOS over Android. So I can still think of plenty reasons to get the new iPhone. 

[SansVarnic]

8 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I would seriously consider upgrading if I can sell my 64gb 6s+ for enough or if my dad wants it. 

 

The 7+ has a better camera, better display, more storage, it's faster (irrelevant for me) and water resistant (irrelevant, but nice...). The only tradeoff being the lack of a 3.5mm port, which really doesn't affect me. And yes, I could get an S7, but I hate touchwiz; I could get a OP3, but I enjoy having some form of actual support; I could get a 6P but the build quality is lackluster. Plus I have a Mac and iMessage/phone/video calls syncing seamlessly is a really nice feature and unfortunately Android still doesn't have anything quite as good. And I also happen to prefer iOS over Android. So I can still think of plenty reasons to get the new iPhone. 

Superior IMO

[suicidalfranco]

17 minutes ago, SansVarnic said:

This video pretty much sums it up for me. Why anyone would buy an iPhone any more is beyond me.

 

this made me laugh more

 

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, SansVarnic said:

Superior IMO

I'll take WP seriously when they have a whole number percent market share (and app support).

[SansVarnic]

6 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

I'll take WP seriously when they have a whole number percent market share (and app support).

Each to his/her own of course.  

[skywake]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

As far as I'm concerned, this reaction alone is a worthwhile reason for Apple to have dropped the port. If it upsets you so much because it affects YOU so negatively, then you don't have to buy it. There are plenty of other options and the previous iPhone versions are still for sale. There's no need to rage over something that you don't agree with.

I can't speak for others but the fact that Apple is doing this doesn't bother me. I said before that it would be a perfectly sensible thing to do on an entry level phone. The issue I have is the idea that this is somehow a premium feature. When it's not, they're just taking something away. The worry I have is that others will follow. I for one will not be buying any phones or tablets that lack the headphone out. So I guess that means either Apple changes their mind or at some point Apple won't be an option for me anymore. Which is a shame, because they make some pretty decent products.... recent insanity aside

 

8 hours ago, Belmont31R said:

Unless you take out the jack other newer methods will stagnate, and the industry will keep putting out 3.5mm products. What are you gaining? As Apple and other manufacturers drop the 3.5MM jack you will have more options that don't use an old as dirt analog system. Also, with this type of phone people did give up something...phones used to last days between charges, and now we get less than a day with constant use. RAZR's and Blackberry's had way longer battery life than any iPhone or Galaxy does today. 

The idea that you're getting something out of this is a joke. You realise that the phone still needs a DAC and an amp for the speakers right? And they've also added a second speaker to this phone. So you're not gaining any space. Even if you were we're talking a pretty small amount of space. This isn't hours of extra battery life, at best it's a few minutes if that.

 

As for the claim that the 3.5mm jack is old as dirt? Well sure, it is. But it hasn't changed for a very good reason. It's an analogue connection but so what? Speakers are analogue! There's a reason you need a DAC, you're converting from digital to analogue. They're not modernising anything here they're just shifting the location of the DAC. Anyways, it's not like they're inventing bluetooth here. Bluetooth headphones already exist.

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, skywake said:

I can't speak for others but the fact that Apple is doing this doesn't bother me. I said before that it would be a perfectly sensible thing to do on an entry level phone. The issue I have is the idea that this is somehow a premium feature. When it's not, they're just taking something away. The worry I have is that others will follow. I for one will not be buying any phones or tablets that lack the headphone out. So I guess that means either Apple changes their mind or at some point Apple won't be an option for me anymore. Which is a shame, because they make some pretty decent products.... recent insanity aside

 

The idea that you're getting something out of this is a joke. You realise that the phone still needs a DAC and an amp for the speakers right? And they've also added a second speaker to this phone. So you're not gaining any space. Even if you were we're talking a pretty small amount of space. This isn't hours of extra battery life, at best it's a few minutes if that.

 

As for the claim that the 3.5mm jack is old as dirt? Well sure, it is. But it hasn't changed for a very good reason. It's an analogue connection but so what? Speakers are analogue! There's a reason you need a DAC, you're converting from digital to analogue. They're not modernising anything here they're just shifting the location of the DAC. Anyways, it's not like they're inventing bluetooth here. Bluetooth headphones already exist.

 

 

Bluetooth headphones really aren't up the quality they can/should be. They're held back by the fact that most people have no interest/need for them (but that's not to say bluetooth headphones wouldn't be beneficial to most). It's kind of the chicken or the egg argument. There isn't much of a reason to get rid of the 3.5mm jack right now, but until it's phased out there also won't be much of a reason to develop for an alternative (whether that be lightning/USB-C/bluetooth). Some benefits of a lightning/usb-C based headphone off the top of my head would be: 

• Active noise cancellation 
• Better sound potential in high end headphones
• Fitness tracking 
• IR sensors (detect when you take out your earbuds and automatically pause playback to the headphones as a whole or to the specific earbud)

[SansVarnic]

4 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Will go well with the adapters of the MacBook. Worst part is that they are not interchangeable. So you can't even reduce your adapters in any way, if you have this new iPhone and the MacBook.

Yup just what we need, adapters that cost as much or more than the product its designed to connect to.

Adapter: $40

Earduds: $25

Ehh I'll pass.

If MS does this with the surface phone will I quit life...  

 

[suicidalfranco]

1 hour ago, djdwosk97 said:

 

 

Bluetooth headphones really aren't up the quality they can/should be. They're held back by the fact that most people have no interest/need for them (but that's not to say bluetooth headphones wouldn't be beneficial to most). It's kind of the chicken or the egg argument. There isn't much of a reason to get rid of the 3.5mm jack right now, but until it's phased out there also won't be much of a reason to develop for an alternative (whether that be lightning/USB-C/bluetooth). Some benefits of a lightning/usb-C based headphone off the top of my head would be: 

• Active noise cancellation 
• Better sound potential in high end headphones
• Fitness tracking 
• IR sensors (detect when you take out your earbuds and automatically pause playback to the headphones as a whole or to the specific earbud)

Bluetooth headphone aren't up to the quality they should be because of their own limitations, not because of the presence of the jack. 

All those benefits can be achieved without lightning/USB-C

[79wjd]

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Bluetooth headphone aren't up to the quality they should be because of their own limitations, not because of the presence of the jack. 

All those benefits can be achieved without lightning/USB-C

Bluetooth headphones could be far better if there was a higher demand for them (which there would be if they weren't universally looked down upon as being overpriced and not very good). 

 

Also, none of that functionality is possible over 3.5mm without also adding some form of power source (which would mean all IEMs would be just as bulky as most bluetooth IEMs). 

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

Bluetooth headphones could be far better if there was a higher demand for them (which there would be if they weren't universally looked down upon as being overpriced and not very good). 

 

Also, none of that functionality is possible over 3.5mm without also adding some form of power source (which would mean all IEMs would be just as bulky as most bluetooth IEMs). 

Please, as long as bluetooth remains a wireless technology it will always stay behind wired tech in terms of sound fidelty, as long as your signal needs to be compressed and encrypted while also keep power consumption low, the resulting signal will always be more lossy than something coming out of a wire.

Bluetooth is being heldback by itself, the jack since it's introduction as given and still gives the best quality, i'd rather have a new TRRRS plug than waiting for bluetooth to hope to catch up to a mono jack

[79wjd]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

Please, as long as bluetooth remains a wireless technology it will always stay behind wired tech in terms of sound fidelty, as long as your signal needs to be compressed and encrypted while also keep power consumption low, the resulting signal will always be more lossy than something coming out of a wire.

Bluetooth is being heldback by itself, the jack since it's introduction as given and still gives the best quality, i'd rather have a new TRRRS plug than waiting for bluetooth to hope to catch up to a mono jack

Bluetooth has a lot of room for improvement, and if there was enough demand, then money would go towards improving it. Also, let's not forget the fact that the majority of people listening to music are listening to compressed music (i.e. spotify, apple music, pandora, etc...). 

 

You're right, bluetooth will never be as high a quality as a wired connection, but it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be close. Take wifi for example, it's not quite as good as gigabit ethernet, but it's damn near close enough to not suck to use -- that wasn't always the case. 

 

And I'm not solely advocating for bluetooth. There are also benefits to having headphones run off of a digital connection that is capable of supplying power. 

[RedRound2]

12 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I would wait. It will be 10th anniversary of the iPhone next year, and it is for sure be something more impressive, and probably the return of the headphone plug. And now you really have a phone that shines.

What is this? Damage Control? Everyone knows here that you hate iPhones which you made it pretty clear with your first post with just straight up wrong facts

13 hours ago, LAwLz said:

How is the 3.5mm jack stopping anything?

 

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can even say the 3.5mm headphone jack is outdated. Can anyone give me valid reasons why it is outdated? Can anyone give me legitimate reasons why it is holding us back? I challenge you Apple fanboys to justify this retarded move.

I'm not going to go done this route again. I bought myself a wireless bud and I it was completely over my head as to why wireless isn't taking over. If 3.5mm jack still exists in the iPhone the audio industry woul remain essentially the same in next 10 years, but due to this move its not going to. We'll have this conversation again after 3-4 years which is the only way to see who is right

13 hours ago, o0Martin said:

Using the adapter is not an issue for most consumers, I get that. But for me there are a few issues;

 

1. I would need to either purchase 3 adapters and have them plugged into my 2 sets of headphones (One for gym/sport, one for listening to music in general) and 1 plugged into my car (which doesn't have bluetooth, only aux). Or I would have to carry around the adapter itself and switch it all the time which would get annoying, or I would need to invest money into bluetooth devices. All 3 of those are things I wouldn't want to do, and on top of that I would have to get 3rd party adapters because I'm not using the white apple adapter with a black phone and black headphone cable, it would look way too ugly in my opinion.

I get what you're trying to say. But the entire point is to move into wireless. Yes it will cause some inconveniences now, but it will eventually solve itself when the rest of the markets reacts to what happened a day ago. Also all newer cars have Bluetooth or some cars have CarPlay where the car interfaces with the iPhone with lightning, so the car issue is only going to affect you till you change your car

 

Its just 9 bucks get another adapter if you have two pairs which you use regularly. But I recommend a wireless earbuds for gym as they are so much more convenient than wired earphones (freedom of movement, and you can keep your phone inside backpack, etc)

Quote

2. I need to be able to charge my device and use the headphones at the same time. I understand bluetooth fixes this, but again, not willing to spend more money on bluetooth headphones. This is why wireless charging would have made so much sense for this device, I still can't believe they didn't add it. 

When I drive to or from university I need to use my phone as a satnav, this drains a load of power, so I have to charge it in the car, but I listen to music while I drive, so if I got this device I'd have to stop listening, charge for an hour or so, then go back to listening.

Again newer cars fix these problems. My car is from 2008 and it has Bluetooth so I guess it's safe to assume that your car is pretty old. 

 

Wireless charging on the other hand is not truly wireless and I guess that's what Apple is trying to develop. Second I'm not entirely sure about this but I don't think inductive charging works with metal backs which is the case with the iPhone. Though nice to have I personally wouldn't use it as it seems to be bad for the battery in a long term

Quote

The deep blacks, power efficiency and the viability of an always on display are great advantages and reasons as to why the iPhone should have had an OLED display, I don't care that it's still 1080p that doesn't matter, but OLED should have been added. 

They wanted to switch to OLED, but they had supply issues. They are going to allegedly shift next year, for the 10th Anniversary iPhone

 

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

Bluetooth has a lot of room for improvement, and if there was enough demand, then money would go towards improving it. Also, let's not forget the fact that the majority of people listening to music are listening to compressed music (i.e. spotify, apple music, pandora, etc...). 

 

You're right, bluetooth will never be as high a quality as a wired connection, but it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be close. Take wifi for example, it's not quite as good as gigabit ethernet, but it's damn near close enough to not suck to use -- that wasn't always the case. 

 

And I'm not solely advocating for bluetooth. There are also benefits to having headphones run off of a digital connection that is capable of supplying power. 

Well, we are at v5, still need to see that room of improvements. Meanwhile just adding an extra ring to the jack would give an extra channel of data that would literally give it an extra room of improvements. 

I'd rather have self powered headphones that works with everything and not just one device and doesn't drain my good-for-day battery life, like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Mo-Fi-High-Fidelity-Headphones/dp/B00LXBC7W4

 

[79wjd]

4 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

Well, we are at v5, still need to see that room of improvements. Meanwhile just adding an extra ring to the jack would give an extra channel of data that would literally give it an extra room of improvements. 

I'd rather have self powered headphones that works with everything and not just one device and doesn't drain my good-for-day battery life, like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Microphones-Mo-Fi-High-Fidelity-Headphones/dp/B00LXBC7W4

 

And what about earbuds? And even then, I'd rather them drain my phones battery than have another thing to worry about charging. 

 

When I'm using my IEMs I usually only have one earpiece in, so if it could automatically detect that and reroute the audio to just one earpiece, that would be amazing, as would active noice cancellation, fitness tracking etc... 

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

And what about earbuds? And even then, I'd rather them drain my phones battery than have another thing to worry about charging. 

what about earbuds? they suck. Good thing the all analogue headphone are still passive components even when they have more than the drivers inside them 

[79wjd]

Just now, suicidalfranco said:

what about earbuds? they suck. Good thing the all analogue headphone are still passive components even when they have more than the drivers inside them 

IEMs don't suck, and even if they do, they are a necessity. I'm not going to walk around with my DT990s. 

 

Sure, just ignore the original argument and focus on an entirely different one. The advantage of using lightning/USB-C is that you can provide power and additional functionality -- noise cancellation, ear tracking, fitness tracking, etc.... Sure, they could just throw a pair of batteries in the IEMs and continue to use the 3.5mm jack, but then I need to worry about charging something else. But go ahead, intentionally shift focus because you have no defense. 

 

[newbie]

Things to note:

the iPhone 6S (and 6 as well I think) was water resistant, it didn't have an IP rating because testing methods

screen isn't much improved (sadly)

 

all in all, I think it's a really good phone when looking at the specs and stuff

just, that missing jack.... I usually defend Apple for decisions that they do (lower res screen, lower CPU cores and so on) but this is just one of the things that Apple do from time to time that I can't defend

[Suika]

The turn away from a 3.5mm audio jack is a bit sad, but I like to think there are greater things going on in the tech world than what Apple is or isn't including in the I/O of their latest iDevice.

 

Me personally, I don't see a reason as to why it's such a huge bother. There's maybe one or two scenarios I can think of, but both can be solved with a $20-40 purchase.

[suicidalfranco]

10 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

IEMs don't suck, and even if they do, they are a necessity. I'm not going to walk around with my DT990s. 

 

Sure, just ignore the original argument and focus on an entirely different one. The advantage of using lightning/USB-C is that you can provide power and additional functionality -- noise cancellation, ear tracking, fitness tracking, etc.... Sure, they could just throw a pair of batteries in the IEMs and continue to use the 3.5mm jack, but then I need to worry about charging something else. But go ahead, intentionally shift focus because you have no defense. 

 

Okay, here's the defence: i'd rather charge my headphones every night than not have my phone make it to the end of the day. Noise cancellation, ear tracking, fitness tracking, etc.... are all possible with traditional pair of headphones active and even passive ones. 

[Scruffy90]

6 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I would agree with you, but... you see Apple didn't say, when asked, that it is to allow to make the phone better in a way, or thinner, they said "Courage", in other words, "because we can". On the table from The Verge I showed, showed phone equally as thin, and have that headphone jack. That plug is really small at the inside. While we have seen many connectors over the years on PC, and TVs that have came and left, the headphone jack and the large 1/4 version, has been here singe ages. It is widely used in music, professional recording, and well headphone/earphones, because it is just that good. It is one the best inventions. Small (well the small version, 3.5mm), solid, allows the cable to turn on itself without distortion, assuming decent cable quality, you have great shielding and cable separation, can be adapted for balance XLR output, and the connector rarely breaks (like you have to hit it hard, your plug will probably break instead of the connector), and supports an incredible amount of plug-ins and out without any sign of weakness. Even if the protective coating on the coper line (silver or gold plated) is damaged and it rust, it is dead easy to clean the contacts with a simple spray, and dust, is no match, and yes, it can be made water proof, in fact MORE water proof than the new iPhone, from the competitors.

 

So why? See... DVI I can give you a list of things why it should disappears. In a but shell, it has a limited amount of plug's in and out, the pins can be bent and it is like bending a motherboard CPU pin (for Intel), or CPU pin (AMD), it is big, falls out easily if not screwed in, 2 screws system to hold. Cable is thick, lots of wiring, and consumes lots of power over newer connectors, like DisplayPort. So you see, just in that respect, forget DVI resolution limits and stuff, we can see that there is a reason. Whether you agree or not with them, it doesn't matter, there are reasons. But the headphone plug, has none. See like Lightning cable from Apple, had reasons over micro-USB or its older connector. It is nice, well designed, nothing like on the market. Here they are none.

 

They could have had the headphone plug PLUS provide these wireless earpods. To be, it is Apple going "Man, our earpods aren't that great.. how can we push sales.... lets force them to buy them!" That is all I have. And I hope people vote with their wallet.

 

Apple makes great phone in general. Their OS is perhaps not for everyone, but it is a solid experience. I always respected Apple decisions, even though I didn't agree with all of them. They did push the industry.. but that was when Steve Jobs was there. Now Tim Cook is taking bad decision, taking advantage of the fan base, taking advantage of people who like iOS and have no other alternatives. And that is not right.

 

I think Apple fans should not buy it, and push Tim Cook aside, which will push investors and shareholders to vote him out, and getting someone who respect the user, and respect the company in. And actually innovate and push the industry forwarId with good reasons and intensions, like old Apple.

I agree with your thought process and points, but youre over thinking it ( and fuck DVI. Keep breaking the cheap plastic thumbscrews lol). Ultimately I believe two things. If Apple sells a bunch of phones or makes a ton of money off of lightning adapters (lets be real, the majority of people will lose them and lightning portion of the cable will break) they will never go back. Theyre also not the only tech company (or moto for that matter) that want the headphone jack gone. Some claim,that it'll add space within their devices for a larger battery (seems very unlikely) or they want to make their devices as thing as possible. Than, you have  the media blowing the 3.5mm jack obsolete, unnecessary crap out of proportion. Only way we will know for sure is if the sales of this iPhone are low, or if people actually boycott the product (this never happens).

[skywake]

5 hours ago, djdwosk97 said:

Some benefits of a lightning/usb-C based headphone off the top of my head would be: 

• Active noise cancellation 
• Better sound potential in high end headphones
• Fitness tracking 
• IR sensors (detect when you take out your earbuds and automatically pause playback to the headphones as a whole or to the specific earbud)

Counter-points to this list specifically:

- Active noise cancellation headphones are already a thing

- You can already buy a headphone DAC/AMP for Android and iOS (Creative have one that does Android, iOS, PC and Optical)

- This isn't at all beneficial to wired headphone users. Don't kid yourself. This is all about moving people to bluetooth

- Fitness tracking.... ??? .... ???

- In-line controls are already a thing

 

Counter-points to the idea of changing from the 3.5mm jack more generally:

- The 3.5mm jack is ubiquitous. I can use the same plug in everything from my turntable to my PC to my phone and old Gameboy

- The 3.5mm jack is standard. When shopping for headphones I don't have to worry about what brand device I'm using it for

- It's a passive connector, there's no electronics in my headphones. It's one less thing to fail in the headphones themselves

- It's not just reversible it's omni-directional. There aren't many only other plugs that can claim that

- It's very durable. I don't think I've ever had a plug or connector fail on me. I can't say the same about the various kinds of USB

 

With all that said? I understand entirely the push for bluetooth. You're giving up a bit of quality for the convenience and that's fair enough. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that removing the option for wired is a step forward. It's not a consumer friendly move at all, as an end user you don't benefit at all. Bluetooth headphones already exist. The changing of the connector? Honestly, I can't see how it'll be better in any way. And any arguments that it will fall apart with the existence of higher end external phone DACs already. If it was a great idea they'd already be the standard.

[jaggysnake57]

jesus the apple hate boys are frapping in this thread

 

if the removal of the 3.5mm jack pushes the industry forward then its a good thing.....

 

@GoodBytes seriously dude your an embarrassment. the way you blindly attacked the iphone is pathetic, then to get reckt by everyone else......you should loose your mod status. 

[Trixanity]

Just looked at the prices. Wow. iPhone 7+ 128 GB costs $1200 (converted). I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

 

And once again: removing the 3.5mm jack is not moving the industry forward when you don't present a successor. If Bluetooth is to succeed as a standard, it needs to integrate a lossless codec in the standard without licensing. If a digital solution is to succeed they should have gone with a USB-C solution. Neither has happened. This is not an improvement.