Apple Announces the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus

[skywake]

4 hours ago, jaggysnake57 said:

jesus the apple hate boys are frapping in this thread

 

if the removal of the 3.5mm jack pushes the industry forward then its a good thing....

Why do you assume it's "Apple hate"? I'd have a go at any company who tries to pull this sort of crap.

 

I'm a Nintendo fan to the point where I have a SNES game title screen as my avatar. If Nintendo's next portable system does away with the headphone jack in flavor of bluetooth? I'd complain just as much. And unlike my phone I don't think I've ever used headphones on my 3DS. Hell, I complained a bit about the poor I/O on the Wii U. In order to get the full use out of it I had to get a powered USB hub which solves the problem. It works but it's not ideal.

 

I read a review about the older model of Intel's compute stick. One of the main sticking points in a lot of the reviews was the fact that it only had one USB port. Which I thought was a fair criticism. Yes you can buy a USB hub but it'd be a lot better if you didn't have to. Especially given that the thing is supposed to be fairly well hidden and/or portable. Having to carry around and then plug in dongles, hubs and adaptors into it kinda defeats the point. And this was a HDMI stick, a thing you need a monitor, KB + Mouse to use. Not a phone.

 

So I will complain about anyone who pulls this sort of crap. Not just Apple. Companies shouldn't be praised for how innovative the removal of decent I/O is.

[Tomsen]

Very interesting to see apple finally going with big.LITTLE design. Should help tremendously with power-efficiency if the OS support is there too.

Multitasking should also be better. Basically todays iphone don't even multi-task.

 

Lets not all keep hammering the same nail, the 3.5mm jack is doomed to go in phones and in general. The issue is no actual technology integrated to replace it.

[skywake]

7 minutes ago, Tomsen said:

Lets not all keep hammering the same nail, the 3.5mm jack is doomed to go in phones and in general. The issue is no actual technology integrated to replace it.

 

.... but a speaker wire will always be better than wireless. Because try as you might, you will always have to have a speaker wire at some point.

[Xepher1]

2 minutes ago, skywake said:

No one wants to charge their headphones before leaving the house

[Tomsen]

2 minutes ago, skywake said:

 

.... but a speaker wire will always be better than wireless

That would be all right, if that actually worked without annoyances. Like forgetting a hammer in your toolbox and then have to use a screwdriver as a hammer.

I don't mind headless headphones, I would actually prefer it, over the constant irritation of wires been in the way. but it need a better and more convenience charging solution for the bluetooth appliances and of course longer battery time.

[GoodBytes]

5 hours ago, jaggysnake57 said:

jesus the apple hate boys are frapping in this thread

 

if the removal of the 3.5mm jack pushes the industry forward then its a good thing.....

 

@GoodBytes seriously dude your an embarrassment. the way you blindly attacked the iphone is pathetic, then to get reckt by everyone else......you should loose your mod status. 

And everyone that "attack me" provide 0 proof or actual counter points.

But you are saying this every time you disagree with me

[skywake]

18 minutes ago, Xepher1 said:

No one wants to charge their headphones before leaving the house

I wasn't saying it was a good idea, personally I'd rather keep both options. Options are good. I was just pointing out what technology the iPhone 7 has that they're using to replace the headphone jack. The bundled DAC and lightning connector options are not the route they want to go. They are only including that because they lacked the "courage" to go that far. But in the long run? I think that's 100% the route they want to go. Bluetooth for headphones. No wires.

[Tomsen]

15 minutes ago, Tomsen said:

That would be all right, if that actually worked without annoyances. Like forgetting a hammer in your toolbox and then have to use a screwdriver as a hammer.

I don't mind headless headphones, I would actually prefer it, over the constant irritation of wires been in the way. but it need a better and more convenience charging solution for the bluetooth appliances and of course longer battery time.

However, it could be apple will be the driving force to push out these new appliances to a standard the user finds comfortable.

It is a chicken or the egg problem, and apple does have opportunity to push it (lots of marketshare and a closed eco-system).

[jaggysnake57]

12 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

And everyone that "attack me" provide 0 proof or actual counter points.

But you are saying this every time you disagree with me

dude i can count the times on one hand i have disagreed with you and everyone provided facts and links that proved you wrong dude you need to chill out

51 minutes ago, skywake said:

Why do you assume it's "Apple hate"? I'd have a go at any company who tries to pull this sort of crap.

 

I'm a Nintendo fan to the point where I have a SNES game title screen as my avatar. If Nintendo's next portable system does away with the headphone jack in flavor of bluetooth? I'd complain just as much. And unlike my phone I don't think I've ever used headphones on my 3DS. Hell, I complained a bit about the poor I/O on the Wii U. In order to get the full use out of it I had to get a powered USB hub which solves the problem. It works but it's not ideal.

 

I read a review about the older model of Intel's compute stick. One of the main sticking points in a lot of the reviews was the fact that it only had one USB port. Which I thought was a fair criticism. Yes you can buy a USB hub but it'd be a lot better if you didn't have to. Especially given that the thing is supposed to be fairly well hidden and/or portable. Having to carry around and then plug in dongles, hubs and adaptors into it kinda defeats the point. And this was a HDMI stick, a thing you need a monitor, KB + Mouse to use. Not a phone.

 

So I will complain about anyone who pulls this sort of crap. Not just Apple. Companies shouldn't be praised for how innovative the removal of decent I/O is.

its always apple hate. half of it is factually incorrect. how is it crap? there taking a chance and trying to push the industry forward.....i may not work but if you dont try.....seriously this level of thinking we would all still be listening to vinyl and using horse and cart

[skywake]

2 minutes ago, jaggysnake57 said:

its always apple hate. half of it is factually incorrect. how is it crap? there taking a chance and trying to push the industry forward.....i may not work but if you dont try.....seriously this level of thinking we would all still be listening to vinyl and using horse and cart

As I said, I'd criticise any other company for doing the same. I gave two decent examples of products from companies other than Apple that have been rightly criticised for similar crap. They're removing the standard audio connector from their flagship media consumption device. Without which users will either have to go wireless which has it's own set of compromises or carry around an adaptor. If anyone else did this I'd be calling it just as stupid. The only thing that's different here is that for some reason people are praising the removal of an option as hugely innovative.

[79wjd]

7 hours ago, skywake said:

Counter-points to this list specifically:

- Active noise cancellation headphones are already a thing

- You can already buy a headphone DAC/AMP for Android and iOS (Creative have one that does Android, iOS, PC and Optical)

- This isn't at all beneficial to wired headphone users. Don't kid yourself. This is all about moving people to bluetooth

- Fitness tracking.... ??? .... ???

- In-line controls are already a thing

 

Counter-points to the idea of changing from the 3.5mm jack more generally:

- The 3.5mm jack is ubiquitous. I can use the same plug in everything from my turntable to my PC to my phone and old Gameboy

- The 3.5mm jack is standard. When shopping for headphones I don't have to worry about what brand device I'm using it for

- It's a passive connector, there's no electronics in my headphones. It's one less thing to fail in the headphones themselves

- It's not just reversible it's omni-directional. There aren't many only other plugs that can claim that

- It's very durable. I don't think I've ever had a plug or connector fail on me. I can't say the same about the various kinds of USB

 

With all that said? I understand entirely the push for bluetooth. You're giving up a bit of quality for the convenience and that's fair enough. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that removing the option for wired is a step forward. It's not a consumer friendly move at all, as an end user you don't benefit at all. Bluetooth headphones already exist. The changing of the connector? Honestly, I can't see how it'll be better in any way. And any arguments that it will fall apart with the existence of higher end external phone DACs already. If it was a great idea they'd already be the standard.

-What IEMs hav active noise cancellation? They have noise isolation, some hav pretty good noise isolation, but adding active noise cancellation on top of that would be a good thing.

-Creative's DAC/AMP is also quite large -- about the size of a phone. How about one that's more reasonably sized and integrated into the headphones (and don't say that's not possible, because it is). 

-90% of the time I'm using my IEMs I only have one earpiece in. Having sound redirected would be insanely useful. Plus there are times when I remove my headphones to have  conversation/go to class and I forget to pause what was playing and then I see my phone a couple hours later and see that I've either wasted battery or data for literally no reason. 

-Yes, fitness tracking. Not everyone wants to buy a a smartwatch/fitbit and headphones. Buying one much better pair of headphones would make much more sense. 

 

 

-CDs were also ubiquitous, but they're basically gone. USB Type-A is ubiquitous, yet the move to Type C is happening. Ubiquitous isn't a reason to never progress forward. 

-That's also not entirely true. A lot of headphones have specific iOS/Android variants since the control mapping is slightly different. Plus, what would likely happen is an adapter for Type-C to lightning would be included in any headphones that opt'd to use a digital connection (which is where that issue would arise from). 

-Okay, by that logic we should also all switch back to dumb phones -- they were far simpler and less likely to fail too. Not to mention they were much less fragile and had battery lives 4-7 times that of modern smartphones. 

-omnidirectional is nice.

-I've never had a microUSB or lightning cable fail on me. Don't treat your products like shit and they won't just fail. 

 

Bluetooth headphones exist, but they're not nearly as good as they should be due to a lack of funding/development due to a relatively low demand (due to quality and costs). Bluetooth won't get better and cheaper (at more than a snails pace) unless there is some driving force behind it. Look at Jaybird, the last three generations have basically been identical....so they release a new product and don't even bother improving on it. And there are already reviews about lightning-based headphones that supposedly sound better than their 3.5mm counterpart. 

[jaggysnake57]

5 minutes ago, skywake said:

 The only thing that's different here is that for some reason people are praising the removal of an option as hugely innovative.

but it could be......it could revolutionise both the wireless earphone market and the audio market. with stroage sizes increasing, internet speeds increasing (well every where but the US and OZ) and now potentially the ability to use a digital signal to get a better sound, we could see lossess music really come into its own. 

[HeadsUpHigh]

Wow... this is the first time that I honestly do not want to own an iphone. I have never had one before as I value my money higher and my smartphone lower but I would like to try them... not this time. I hate having to charge stuff and adding one more to my arsenal is the last thing I want to do. I really hope android manufacturers do not follow apple's lead once again. Last thing I want to see is a dozen different connection protocols from different manufacturers, or even worse having to keep my bluetooth open all day, yet another way to waste my phone's battery

[79wjd]

3 minutes ago, HeadsUpHigh said:

Wow... this is the first time that I honestly do not want to own an iphone. I have never had one before as I value my money higher and my smartphone lower but I would like to try them... not this time. I hate having to charge stuff and adding one more to my arsenal is the last thing I want to do. I really hope android manufacturers do not follow apple's lead once again. Last thing I want to see is a dozen different connection protocols from different manufacturers, or even worse having to keep my bluetooth open all day, yet another way to waste my phone's battery

Bluetooth doesn't affect battery all that much. I have a pair of bluetooth 2.1 and bluetooth 4.0 headphones, and I haven't noticed any meaningful battery life differences. 

[skywake]

Ok, apparently we're upto the list response part of the forum argument. I guess I'll bite.

40 minutes ago, djdwosk97 said:

1. What IEMs hav active noise cancellation?

2. Creative's DAC/AMP is also quite large -- about the size of a phone. 

3. 90% of the time I'm using my IEMs I only have one earpiece in. 

4. Yes, fitness tracking. Not everyone wants to buy a a smartwatch/fitbit and headphones

5. CDs were also ubiquitous, but they're basically gone.

6. USB Type-A is ubiquitous, yet the move to Type C is happening

7. That's also not entirely true. A lot of headphones have specific iOS/Android variants since the control mapping is slightly different. 

8. Okay, by that logic we should also all switch back to dumb phones -- they were far simpler and less likely to fail too

9. I've never had a microUSB or lightning cable fail on me. Don't treat your products like shit and they won't just fail. 

1. My local electronics/media retailer has two. One made by Sennheiser the other by Bose. Both use the standard headphone jack. They exist.

2. It was an example to show that they exist. I picked it because it was, I assume, a fairly high quality DAC/AMP

3. And this is an issue because.........

4. But they'd be happy to spend extra on headphones that included it?

5. CDs were less practical than mp3s. Removing the analogue connector doesn't make the device more practical

6. USB Type C is higher bandwidth, more durable and reversible. All the things the analogue jack has as advantages

7. But most headphones dont. And the ones that do you can still plug in to the "wrong device" and have audio come out

8. All headphones need to do is produce sound. You use your smartphone for more than calls and texts. It's not an Apples to Apples comparison

9. I don't treat my products like shit. But I have headphone connectors from when I was a kid that are like new and micro-USB plugs that are super loose

 

38 minutes ago, jaggysnake57 said:

but it could be......it could revolutionise both the wireless earphone market and the audio market. with potentially the ability to use a digital signal to get a better sound, we could see lossess music really come into its own. 

The analogue jack is already lossless audio. In terms of audio quality at best this move takes the DAC away from the internal components of the phone and puts it closer to the driver. Which will mean marginally less noise across the wire. But if we go wireless? You get additional compression and latency. With enough bandwidth you could argue it'll become good enough, close enough that you won't notice. We're probably there already. But it won't ever be "better".

[79wjd]

6 minutes ago, skywake said:

Ok, apparently we're upto the list response part of the forum argument. I guess I'll bite.

1. My local electronics/media retailer has two. One made by Sennheiser the other by Bose. Both use the standard headphone jack. They exist.

2. It was an example to show that they exist. I picked it because it was, I assume, a fairly high quality DAC/AMP

3. And this is an issue because.........

4. But they'd be happy to spend extra on headphones that included it?

5. CDs were less practical than mp3s. Removing the analogue connector doesn't make the device more practical

6. USB Type C is higher bandwidth, more durable and reversible. All the things the analogue jack has as advantages

7. But most headphones dont. And the ones that do you can still plug in to the "wrong device" and have audio come out

8. All headphones need to do is produce sound. You use your smartphone for more than calls and texts. It's not an Apples to Apples comparison

9. I don't treat my products like shit. But I have headphone connectors from when I was a kid that are like new and micro-USB plugs that are super loose

1. You mean like QC20s? Which are powered by a battery pack and need to be recharged? 
2. Of course they exist, but how about one that is built into the headphones and isn't massive? 
3. It would be nice if the sound that's going to the earpiece that's NOT in my ear would be redirected to the one that is, or at the very least turned off. 
4. Not all headphones have to have fitness tracking in it....Just like not ALL headphones have noise cancellation just because it happens to exist. 
5. A lot of people would argue with you. And MP3 weren't the only use case for CDs. They were probably the least used case since most people had already stopped buying music on CDs -- and those that still did just ripped it once and then never touched the CD again. 
6. Lightning has more future expandability through additional functionality. Lightning (or any digital connection) has the possibility of offering superior sound. Lightning offers the ability to supply power to headphones (and not require a battery pack like on the QC20s). There are trade offs and advantages either way. 
7. And the same will be true with lightning/usb-c/3.5mm. Buy a $5 adapter and voila. You get better performance when you're connected to a digital source, and the same performance you've been getting when connected to 3.5mm. 
8. Just because YOU don't use it for anything more doesn't mean no one else will. 
9. Then you treat your stuff like shit. Every one of my Micro usb cables from the past 7 years are still working perfectly as are all the device-ports that they plugged into. 

[technogg]

TBH I did preorder the 7 Plus when it came out this morning.

 

Like its a great phone, especially compared to my 6. Ik ik people say that they shouldn't have taken out the headphone jack but honestly somebody had to do it. Like it sucks now but we are all going to be happier in a couple years when everything is wireless. The same shit happened when apple switch to lighting from 30 pin. Everyone was soooo pissed off but that last what two weeks after it was released and now we are all fine with it.

 

Plus its a heck of a lot faster than the Galaxy Note 7 (Fire Edition).

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, technogg said:

Plus its a heck of a lot faster than the Galaxy Note 7 (Fire Edition).

But can it take down a plane? 

 

#Note7MasterRace

[technogg]

Just now, djdwosk97 said:

But can it take down a plane? 

 

#Note7MasterRace

You do have a point there. *waves white flag*

[Trixanity]

If Apple truly cared about advancing wireless audio, they'd make a free lossless codec (even better: open source) for Bluetooth or another wireless protocol. They haven't. The specification for Bluetooth 5.0 has been released and it does not to my knowledge contain any audio enhancements. We'll see Bluetooth 5.0 devices next year and they will have the same crappy sound and so will the iPhone. Even if Bluetooth 5.0 did have improved sound, your iPhone would still be crap because it would be stuck with 4.2.

 

It's just not there and won't be any time soon. I don't know the pricing for apt-x but I'm sure it's not cheap since it's not in any way ubiquitous. That's what's holding Bluetooth audio back: you need an entire ecosystem where each part has an aptx license to get decent audio. If aptx or a better free codec was part of the Bluetooth spec it would almost be a non-issue.

[skywake]

@djdwosk97

Well I'm not going to run down the whole list again but I will respond to a few of the things you're saying in detail.

 

For a start you keep talking about extra features that could come about because of this. You mentioned external DACs for your phone, active noise cancelling and fitness trackers. When I pointed to versions of those things already on the market? You moved the goalposts. You pointed to more and more niche headphone specs. I think it's fair to assume that decent active noise cancelling IEMs with integrated DAC and fitness trackers don't exist. But you haven't really explained how the existence of the 3.5mm jack is stopping it from existing. The truth is such a product could exist already... if there was a market for it.

 

The rant about improved quality of the audio from you and others? I don't think there's much of a case to be made on that front. Obviously moving the DAC closer to the driver will remove some of the noise. And maybe the compatibility issues and increased costs that will come from that might be fine for some. But there's nothing stopping those sort of headphones from already existing. Apple will force them to exist and we'll see how popular they are. Ultimately though that's not what this move is about. I don't think Apple expects anyone to use an external DAC, the inclusion of it in the box is a bit of a peace offering IMO. What they're expecting is people to move to bluetooth, bluetooth will not give you better audio quality.

 

As for the weird points about CDs and so on. Well, I will say that I am the sort of person who still buys CDs sometimes. So when you talk about people who would argue with me on that point I guess I'm one of those people. And as one of those people? I don't deny the extra convenience of an mp3. You can't really stream a CD over the internet and buying a CD involves a bit more than pressing a button and having it. And sure, CDs were at one point as ubiquitous as the 3.5mm jack. However devices that played mp3s and not CDs were always more convenient. Even when they only held 10 songs at a time. A phone that has bluetooth but not a 3.5mm headphone jack is not more convenient. At best it's no different, at worst you have to plug in a bulky (and eventually optional) adaptor. So it's not a fair comparison

[79wjd]

7 minutes ago, skywake said:

@djdwosk97

Well I'm not going to run down the whole list again but I will respond to a few of the things you're saying more generally.

 

For a start you keep talking about extra features that could come about because of this. You mentioned external DACs for your phone, active noise cancelling and fitness trackers. When I pointed to versions of those things already on the market? You moved the goalposts. You pointed to more and more niche headphone specs. I think it's fair to assume that decent active noise cancelling IEMs with integrated DAC and fitness trackers don't exist. But you haven't really explained how the existence of the 3.5mm jack is stopping it from existing. The truth is such a product could exist already... if there was a market for it.

 

The rant about improved quality of the audio from you and others? I don't think there's much of a case to be made on that front. Obviously moving the DAC closer to the driver will remove some of the noise. And maybe the compatibility issues and increased costs that will come from that might be fine for some. But there's nothing stopping those sort of headphones from already existing. Apple will force them to exist and we'll see how popular they are. Ultimately though that's not what this move is about. I don't think Apple expects anyone to use an external DAC, the inclusion of it in the box is a bit of a peace offering IMO. What they're expecting is people to move to bluetooth, bluetooth will not give you better audio quality.

 

As for the weird points about CDs and so on. Well they are weird points you're making here. On the CD bit I will say that I am the sort of person who still buys CDs when it's an album I particularly like. So when you talk about people who would argue with me on that point I guess I'm one of those people. And as one of those people? I don't deny the extra convenience of an mp3. You can't really stream a CD over the internet and buying music involves a bit more than pressing a button and having it. So yes CDs were at one point as ubiquitous as the 3.5mm jack. However devices that played mp3s and not CDs were more convenient. A phone that has bluetooth but not a 3.5mm headphone jack is not more convenient. At best it's no advantage, at worst you have to plug in a bulky (and eventually optional) adaptor.

I did not move the goal posts. I want a DAC built INTO the headphones. Or active noise cancelling headphones that does not require me to charge an additional product. I changed nothing. You're just twisting my words to better suit your argument. 

 

There are good active noise cancelling IEMs with a 3.5mm jack, they just require an additional power source (lightning would be that power source and I would't need to have to have another item to charge). And a DAC wouldn't do anything if you're using a 3.5mm connection (the amp in the iPhone and most phones is more than enough, but the DAC could be better). 

 

Bluetooth doesn't need to give better quality as long as it's close enough as it adds a level of convenience that wired headphones don't. WiFi isn't better than ethernet, yet it's taken over most of the consumer market out of convenience. And by allowing for the DAC to be a part of the headphones you can have a higher quality DAC, which will yield better sound quality in wired headphones. 

 

A "bulky" adaptor that, for most people, will just sit on the end of their headphones and they'll never notice a difference. 

[Linus_torvalds]

Do you know what one shop is doing in my country? They sell:

iphone 7 for 3200$ in 16 september

2800$ 17 september

2200$ 18 september

1700$ 19 september

1050$ 20 september and everytime. Yes it actually happens in my country. Same thing happened about previous iphone generations. I live in Georgia Europe.

 

[skywake]

@djdwosk97

As I said from the start, there's nothing stopping that product from existing if the headphone jack remains. If it was such a great idea the market would already be flooded with them. And you're probably right, active noise cancelling is one reason why you might want to go that route. If you want a better DAC having an external one is a decent option to have. There are reasons why that connector would be useful in that way and I never argued otherwise. But the connector exists already and most of the time the 3.5mm jack is still the better option. I'm not saying that audio shouldn't be supported on USB-C or the lightning connector, I'm saying they should keep the 3.5mm jack.

 

And again with the convenience bit. I never said that the wireless option isn't more convenient, it obviously is in some use cases. Just like WiFi is more convenient than Ethernet. But don't remove the Ethernet port from a laptop and tell me it's a groundbreaking innovation. Because as you said, Ethernet is better. I'd rather have it than not. Same deal with the phone. If given the option between a phone that has USB-C/lightning, headphone jack and bluetooth and one that lacks the headphone jack? All things being equal I'd rather the one with the headphone jack. Same deal with the headphones, all things being equal I'd rather the one with the 3.5mm jack. 

 

I don't think anything I've said just now is twisting anything or being unreasonable in any way. But feel free to disagree if I have somehow offended.

[79wjd]

1 minute ago, skywake said:

@djdwosk97

As I said from the start, there's nothing stopping that product from existing if the headphone jack remains. If it was such a great idea the market would already be flooded with them. And you're probably right, active noise cancelling is one reason why you might want to go that route. If you want a better DAC having an external one is a decent option to have. There are reasons why that connector would be useful in that way I never argued otherwise. But the connector exists already and most of the time the 3.5mm jack is still the better option. I'm not saying that audio shouldn't be supported on USB-C or the lightning connector, I'm saying they should keep the 3.5mm jack.

 

And again with the convenience bit. I never said that the wireless option isn't more convenient, it obviously is in some use cases. Just like WiFi is more convenient than Ethernet. But don't remove the Ethernet port from a laptop and tell me it's a groundbreaking innovation. Because as you said, Ethernet is better. I'd rather have it than not. Same deal with the phone. If given the option between a phone that has USB-C/lightning, headphone jack and bluetooth and one that lacks the headphone jack? All things being equal I'd rather the one with the headphone jack. Same deal with the headphones, all things being equal I'd rather the one with the 3.5mm jack. 

 

I don't think anything I've said just now is twisting anything or being unreasonable in any way. But feel free to disagree if I have somehow offended.

The problem is that without removing the 3.5mm connector you don't give companies which incentive to push things further. So like I said before, it's kind of like the chicken and the egg.....Companies won't develop and support something, which no one seems to care about and/or know about (until the iPhone 7, how many people do you think even knew you could buy lightning headphones -- the answer is going to be very close to none), and people won't care or know about it until a change is forced to happen. 

 

So, yes, it would be better to have the 3.5mm jack since it doesn't stop all of the above from happening, but it is an obstacle nonetheless. And so the big question should ultimately be, does the removal of the 3.5mm jack negatively impact most users or is it just outrage and backlash because it's a change? I personally don't believe it will affect most people in any meaningful way -- I for one won't be affected by the change -- so in that regard I see it as being a good thing since it won't negatively affect most people, but it will incentivize companies to push forward. Most people only have one pair of headphones they use with their phone, so the adaptor isn't a big deal since it will just sit on the headphones forever. Charging and listening at the same time also isn't a huge issue for most people as I don't frequently see people doing that now. And anyone that has an issue with either of those two points (the two big issues that I see), then they won't buy the product because it doesn't suit their specific needs.