"Brexit"

[ChrisCross]

Just now, Misanthrope said:

 

i know there some stuff is going wrong in the eu but its way easier to just fix it instead of bailing out. i just cant understand why you would stand alone if you can have a group that supports you.

what exactly do you mean with self denial. in terms of our history or the eu?

[Misanthrope]

21 minutes ago, ChrisCross said:

i know there some stuff is going wrong in the eu but its way easier to just fix it instead of bailing out. i just cant understand why you would stand alone if you can have a group that supports you.

what exactly do you mean with self denial. in terms of our history or the eu?

1) The EU just doesn't makes a good case of standing out for individual nations and taking into account their own interests vs that of the Union. In the end who do you think the EU is better for as a single entity? Large corporations and the mega bankers. To common people it makes next to no difference so any minor issue like immigration gets blown out of proportion.

 

2) In terms of denying Germans have done any good historically and in recent years. There's far too much focus on never forgetting the holocaust to the point that it prevents many Germans from  being objective about their own accomplishments. Having a little pride, a little sense of Nationalism is not going to automatically descend everyone into madness again. On the contrary telling the people "You're an evil white German, never forget it" constantly will eventually have the opposite effect.

[ChrisCross]

12 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

 

1) thats what i ment. its far from perfect but still better than no teamwork at all in europe. at this point we all learned that we cant live together if we dont work together. people and nations just work better that way. what britain is doing as going in the wrong direction

 

2) if you like it or not but humility is seen very positive in germany. we identify ourselfs as perfectionistic, we are never happy with a result and thats what makes you great imo. we always try to improve stuff and we dont tolerate nationalism because its just a waste of time. i cant even sing the national anthem right now but i can name you a dozen things that are very wrong with german cars.

btw all this evil german world war stuff came from the americans. you have to remind yourself that the americans and the russians controlled our country quite long after the war.

[Heesleemer]

7 hours ago, wcreek said:

I didn't think Scotland should leave the UK when they had their referendum a year or two ago, but following the theme of independence. The UK should probably let go of the remaining countries/islands in their Empire. Since they want out of the EU.

 

If Scotland leaves the UK, could that mean they could join the EU? Scotland did overwhelmingly vote stay in the EU.

That is the argument being made now. 
You cant argue with propaganda fueled by inaccurate numbers and racist anti-immigration sentiments, 

[Heesleemer]

Regardless of the number (more like 150 million, which they will have to pay more to access the common market)

[AlexGoesHigh]

This whole thing is just a massive fucking train wreck right now.

 

so good luck to fucking everyone because whatever you think is best regardless bad shit is going to happen.

[Moress]

2 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

Not the same: most of them didn't ask for sharia law. You don't need to demonize facts about Sharia Law it is pretty clear on it's stances on homosexuality, apostasy, (disturbing lack of) rights of women, etc.

First off. Most Muslims dont agree with the practice of Sharia law just like most Christians dont agree with Slavery and Polygamy. Its simply used as a scape goat for bigots and morons to demonize an entire culture for the actions of their most extreme. Its the same as demonizing all Christians for the actions and beliefs of West Burrow Baptist Church or the Branch Davidians.

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, Moress said:

First off. Most Muslims dont agree with the practice of Sharia law just like most Christians dont agree with Slavery and Polygamy. Its simply used as a scape goat for bigots and morons to demonize an entire culture for the actions of their most extreme. Its the same as demonizing all Christians for the actions and beliefs of West Burrow Baptist Church or the Branch Davidians.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

 

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living%20apart%20together%20-%20jan%2007.pdf

 

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

 

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html

 

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

 

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

 

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html

 

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

No, not a tiny minority. A very significant proportion. This is just the tip of the iceberg mind you, have fun reading.

[BuckGup]

So if everyone hates it and no one wanted it where are the majority that voted yes?

[Misanthrope]

13 minutes ago, SamStrecker said:

So if everyone hates it and no one wanted it where are the majority that voted yes?

Because it's the wrong majority don't you know!

 

But joking aside I've made this point:

 

"Damn Brexiters complaining about lack of Democracy and self determination. Nonsense!.....They actually fucking won mate!!?? Ignorant idiots they should not be allowed to vote!"

 

 

Seriously people are saying this 100% unaware of the irony.

[Moress]

14 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/articles/opinion-polls.aspx

 

Channel Four (2006): 31% of younger British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified compared to 14% of those over 45.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/images/publications/living%20apart%20together%20-%20jan%2007.pdf

 

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
http://www.pewresearch.org/files/old-assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf#page=60

 

Center for Social Cohesion: One Third of British Muslim students support killing for Islam (Wikileaks cable)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html

 

Policy Exchange: One third of British Muslims believe anyone who leaves Islam should be killed
http://www.civitas.org.uk/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf

 

NOP Research: 78% of British Muslims support punishing the publishers of Muhammad cartoons;
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/08/14/opinion/main1893879.shtml&date=2011-04-06
http://www.webcitation.org/5xkMGAEvY

 

Center for Social Cohesion: 40% of British Muslim students want Sharia
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340599/WikiLeaks-1-3-British-Muslim-students-killing-Islam-40-want-Sharia-law.html

 

ICM Poll: 40% of British Muslims want Sharia in the UK
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

 

No, not a tiny minority. A very significant proportion. This is just the tip of the iceberg mind you, have fun reading.

For the ones I could take time to gloss over.

One is a dead link.

Two are tertiary sources that don't actually cite any sources,

And the Pew Research numbers showed 81% of Muslims saying suicide bombings are never justifiable. If you want to show me thr part you cited please use a proper citation like APA or MLA so I can actually find it.

[spartaman64]

all i have to say is rip economy

[Misanthrope]

2 minutes ago, Moress said:

For the ones I could take time to gloss over.

Don't bother. You'll find 1000 reasons to discredit the statistics even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Death sentence for apostasy, Death sentence for homosexuality. This are things explicitly written in the Quran and the Hadith. I didn't make that part up and no study will disproof that is actually written there and actively preached by Islamic clergy today in 2016.

[spartaman64]

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Don't bother. You'll find 1000 reasons to discredit the statistics even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Death sentence for apostasy, Death sentence for homosexuality. This are things explicitly written in the Quran and the Hadith. I didn't make that part up and no study will disproof that is actually written there and actively preached by Islamic clergy today in 2016.

same for Christianity. i suggest you to get to know some muslims before making these claims about them because the muslims i know denounce terrorism in the name of islam vehemently and they are cool people. also know what percentage of terrorism in the EU is conducted by muslims? less than 2%

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

same for Christianity. i suggest you to get to know some muslims before making these claims about them because the muslims i know denounce terrorism in the name of islam vehemently 

At least Moress was more objective in trying to refute the statistics instead of offering a worthless anecdotal argument.

 

Show me surveys that show 30 and 40% of Christians advocate for a strict adherence of death sentence to people who violate Leviticus 20:13. Yes all religions are fucking stupid and moronic. All advocate nonsense fucking idiocy. Only Islam resists attempts at "reformation" still. 

 

The only reason why Christians behave is because they've been stripped of much of their political powers. Islamic fundamentalists still literally run entire countries. Otherwise they're not so different I agree.

[spartaman64]

8 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

At least Moress was more objective in trying to refute the statistics instead of offering a worthless anecdotal argument.

 

Show me surveys that show 30 and 40% of Christians advocate for a strict adherence of death sentence to people who violate Leviticus 20:13. Yes all religions are fucking stupid and moronic. All advocate nonsense fucking idiocy. Only Islam resists attempts at "reformation" still.

im just pointing out that you will find those messages in the bible also. my point is not that christians are also violent in fact i believe in the opposite for both christians and muslims. my view is that good people are good people and bad people are bad people regardless of their religion. the bad people will use bad parts of their religion to justify their behavior and good people will use the good parts it doesnt matter what religion you are and to discriminated against people based on their religion is ridiculous and a response triggered by fear and tribalism rather than rational thought.

 

[Moress]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

Don't bother. You'll find 1000 reasons to discredit the statistics even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Death sentence for apostasy, Death sentence for homosexuality. This are things explicitly written in the Quran and the Hadith. I didn't make that part up and no study will disproof that is actually written there and actively preached by Islamic clergy today in 2016.

Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman; both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be apon them.

 

Thats a quote from the King James bible. Shall we start denying entry to christians because that radical view is written into their book.

 

And im sorry i didnt throughly read ever single source you posted. How abput you actually cite the portions you are talking about and use more Credible sources like the Pew Reasearch one.

[Misanthrope]

7 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

im just pointing out that you will find those messages in the bible also. my point is not that christians are also violent in fact i believe in the opposite for both christians and muslims. my view is that good people are good people and bad people are bad people regardless of their religion. the bad people will use bad parts of their religion to justify their behavior and good people will use the good parts it doesnt matter what religion you are and to discriminated against people based on their religion is ridiculous

I agree with basically everything you said up until the highlighted sentence. At the very least in the west and in the UK which is the topic of conversation, Religion is a PERSONAL CHOICE not an imposition, henceforth you should absolutely be discriminated for your personal choice if said choices are to discriminate others on things they DON'T get to choose like being a homosexual.

 

Sorry but religious tolerance starts and stops with your right to hold whatever crazy and stupid ideas you want to believe. The minute you want to dictate how others live their lives, like many Muslims and Christians do, it's not discrimination, is actually opposing discrimination.

 

To use your own rhetoric against you, why is it not ok to point how Muslims are homophobic fucking cunts but when a Christian in the US cries about persecution because he's not allowed to discriminate others as his religion dictates we just mock him?

 

To me we are not fair against Islam because we let them get away with a lot more because when we point out the fucking obvious, it's always "Oh but Christians do it too!" No, sorry but it's been a while since we don't allow Christians to throw people of motherfucking buildings for being gay, yet this goes on the middle east still and we HAVE TO tell this immigrants "You're welcome but that shit is NOT OK here if you try it, you'll go to jail and be deported" and hold them to that standard.

[spartaman64]

8 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I agree with basically everything you said up until the highlighted sentence. At the very least in the west and in the UK which is the topic of conversation, Religion is a PERSONAL CHOICE not an imposition, henceforth you should absolutely be discriminated for your personal choice if said choices are to discriminate others on things they DON'T get to choose like being a homosexual.

 

Sorry but religious tolerance starts and stops with your right to hold whatever crazy and stupid ideas you want to believe. The minute you want to dictate how others live their lives, like many Muslims and Christians do, it's not discrimination, is actually opposing discrimination.

 

To use your own rhetoric against you, why is it not ok to point how Muslims are homophobic fucking cunts but when a Christian in the US cries about persecution because he's not allowed to discriminate others as his religion dictates we just mock him?

 

To me we are not fair against Islam because we let them get away with a lot more because when we point out the fucking obvious, it's always "Oh but Christians do it too!" No, sorry but it's been a while since we don't allow Christians to throw people of motherfucking buildings for being gay, yet this goes on the middle east still and we HAVE TO tell this immigrants "You're welcome but that shit is NOT OK here if you try it, you'll go to jail and be deported" and hold them to that standard.

"we let muslims get away with more" are you serious? whenever a muslim commits murder we blame it on islam but when a christian does it its a lone incident. and once again im not saying we should blame it on Christianity im saying they are both lone incidents. and you just brought up an example against your own case you are saying we should discriminate against muslims because they are against homosexuality but we shouldnt discriminate against christians who believe the same thing? also do you believe in sharia law is such a vague question and im surprised not 100% of muslims put down yes there isnt a list of laws call sharia law it just means laws from the koran and its like asking a christian do you believe in the 10 commandments or do you believe in following god's orders OF COURSE they are going to say yes but if you ask do you believe in stoning homosexuals to death they are going to say no

[Rodinski]

1 hour ago, ChrisCross said:

1) thats what i ment. its far from perfect but still better than no teamwork at all in europe. at this point we all learned that we cant live together if we dont work together. people and nations just work better that way. what britain is doing as going in the wrong direction

 

2) if you like it or not but humility is seen very positive in germany. we identify ourselfs as perfectionistic, we are never happy with a result and thats what makes you great imo. we always try to improve stuff and we dont tolerate nationalism because its just a waste of time. i cant even sing the national anthem right now but i can name you a dozen things that are very wrong with german cars.

btw all this evil german world war stuff came from the americans. you have to remind yourself that the americans and the russians controlled our country quite long after the war.

The EU, at the time, didn't take anyone seriously and acted in their own interests. Right now, the current events is showing how the EU has not been able to adapt and remain progressive. Frankly, the EU wasn't ever designed to handle the disputes outside of and or neighbouring regions. It was never thought what has happened in Europe would occur else where. We saw it as the war that ended all wars (and frankly, we have not seen a war no where as close as people have sense). 

 

Other parts of the world are causing a great strain on the individual Nations within the EU. Since the EU wanted to believe they were playing the moral high ground, it created a lot of disgust in immigration practises. The EU was not designed as a back door for "my life sucks here, these people should pay it and I should live there." there is no denying that if the EU handled the migration problem properly, Britain (or the whiplash) would not have happened. 

 

Britain leaving is a good thing. It will impact Britain on the short term but it will forced a major wake up call that the EU needs to get it's shit together. Britain will solve their external disputes.  It's a win-win and the fear mongering needs to stop. It just shows how delusional social media is. 

[Misanthrope]

11 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

"we let muslims get away with more" are you serious? whenever a muslim commits murder we blame it on islam but when a christian does it its a lone incident. and once again im not saying we should blame it on Christianity im saying they are both lone incidents. and you just brought up an example against your own case you are saying we should discriminate against muslims because they are against homosexuality but we shouldnt discriminate against christians who believe the same thing? also do you believe in sharia law is such a vague question and im surprised not 100% of muslims put down yes there isnt a list of laws call sharia law it just means laws from the koran and its like asking a christian do you believe in the 10 commandments or do you believe in following god's orders OF COURSE they are going to say yes but if you ask do you believe in stoning homosexuals to death they are going to say no

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151007/1028179977/German-Officials-Hide-Refugees-Crimes.html

 

Quote

Authorities in Germany are deliberately keeping quiet about crimes occurring in refugee shelters, especially those involving brutality against women, as the country's policy of taking in asylum-seekers and providing them with sustenance and a monthly stipend has enraged many, who see the massive influx of young, mostly male Muslims as a threat

If you've got more time to listen to Kraut and Tea:

 

Spoiler

 

 

[spartaman64]

6 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20151007/1028179977/German-Officials-Hide-Refugees-Crimes.html

 

 

i disagree with covering it up but so what? its not a muslim problem its a poverty problem. you think if you take christians or some other religion of people from a poor country that the same thing isnt going to happen and this is unique to muslims? you are kidding yourself. also im gussing those crimes are happening to other refugees so to protect the refugees from rape we must leave them to be killed by isis and discriminate against them

[Misanthrope]

6 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

i disagree with covering it up but so what its not a muslim problem its a poverty problem. you think if you take christians or some other religion of people from a poor country that the same thing isnt going to happen and this is unique to muslims? you are kidding yourself

We have literally millions of extremely poor Mexicans immigrating to the US illegally for the past 3 decades at least. The crime and poverty correlation among them exists yet nowhere near as prevalent, partly because yes the US has never given unconditional refugee status but also because we no longer permit religious fundamentalist to run the country and dictate policy with their bullshit, we in fact went to war on it. 

[stconquest]

36 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

We have literally millions of extremely poor Mexicans immigrating to the US illegally for the past 3 decades at least. The crime and poverty correlation among them exists yet nowhere near as prevalent, partly because yes the US has never given unconditional refugee status but also because we no longer permit religious fundamentalist to run the country and dictate policy with their bullshit, we in fact went to war on it. 

Interesting that the USA funds and supplies these political abominations... War has no religious preference.  Profit needs no religious affiliate.  It is a machine not perpetuated by any religion, but by stupidity.  The inability to form a proper method by which to gather evidence to use in order to better oneself.  Ignorance is too blame, good luck fixing that with any sort of restricting policy or by demonizing cultural groups.

 

Are the one to three million women being trafficked around the world subject to "Sharia Law" (I hate having to actually use that term). 

 

Are innocent non-muslims only being killed by muslims on a systematic level?

 

We have a big problem here on earth.  We kill each other.  Stop trying to say that this problem will be fixed by blaming a designated percentage of perpetrators.  I blame 100% of the perpetrators, and it would not surprise me if less than 25% were muslim. 

 

I am willing to argue conceptually, but don't link unverifiable "studies" as a pretense to try a prove an argument that is wholly unfounded.

 

Anyways, have a good day Misanthrope.

 

 

[spartaman64]

37 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

We have literally millions of extremely poor Mexicans immigrating to the US illegally for the past 3 decades at least. The crime and poverty correlation among them exists yet nowhere near as prevalent, partly because yes the US has never given unconditional refugee status but also because we no longer permit religious fundamentalist to run the country and dictate policy with their bullshit, we in fact went to war on it. 

mexico isnt as poor