"Brexit"

[Mug]

11 hours ago, Centurius said:

 

The way I understand the undemocratic nature of the EU is that the only house that can propose legislation is not directly elected by the people.

As well as this, you have things like TTIP which no-one's really for but yet the EU is pushing for it. Also, you have countries who were forced into a bailout and therefore sweeping austerity, all against the will of the people. This isn't a sign of a democratic EU. The EU is unaccountable, undemocratic, beaurocratic and Bourgeois. This is why people hate it so much. This is why I fear Britain may have exited, it's a sign of the establishment, a sign of the oppression of ordinary people and thus, ordinary people hate it.

[AlexGoesHigh]

i just want to say this link is a brutal side effect, and things ain't even official yet...

http://www.investing.com/currencies/gbp-usd-chart

[stconquest]

16 minutes ago, AlexGoesHigh said:

i just want to say this link is a brutal side effect, and things ain't even official yet...

http://www.investing.com/currencies/gbp-usd-chart

holy shit  £0.14 drop in 4.5 hours.

 

[AresKrieger]

Currently Leave is winning 51.4 to 48.6, but I do not know the political leanings of the areas counted, does anyone know UK politics enough to tell if this outcome will likely continue while they count remaining ballots?

[Nexus]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Currently Leave is winning 51.4 to 48.6, but I do not know the political leanings of the areas counted, does anyone know UK politics enough to tell if this outcome will likely continue while they count remaining ballots?

ITV (one of our major broadcasters) suggests that there is an 85% chance of us leaving now.

Very happy with the result so far.

[SurvivorNVL]

It's actually happening.  God save the Queen.  The currency traders are backing out en masse.

The E.U.'s dissolution has begun, no matter what happens - Globalism has just been spat in the face.

[stconquest]

Straight from some Hong Kong... they have it at a 96% chance of an exit.  Well, the Hong Kong dude was just an outlet they had on for a while:

 

 

[AresKrieger]

6 minutes ago, Nexus said:

ITV (one of our major broadcasters) suggests that there is an 85% chance of us leaving now.

Very happy with the result so far.

Yeah, I find it funny how wrong the polls were again, I was personally rooting for leave despite not actually having a race in the horse so to speak. Based on the 85% I'm going to assume ballots from the most populace regions are already being counted and are getting this ratio, thx for the info, you too @stconquest

[Nexus]

2 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Yeah, I find it funny how wrong the polls were again, I was personally rooting for leave despite not actually having a race in the horse so to speak. Based on the 85% I'm going to assume ballots from the most populace regions are already being counted and are getting this ratio, thx for the info, you too @stconquest

There is still a long way to go but there is a definate trend right now. Some of the regions expected to be very in favour of remaining  did do as well as expected.

 

This spreadsheet is totalling everyhing up of you care:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mI2o0smlVC_TyzhsnweLEayc3tRgtBxIDCotABtUIX0/htmlview?sle=true

 

Its a little slow on updating but its accurate and reliable nonetheless.

[handymanshandle]

11 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

It's actually happening.  God save the Queen.  The currency traders are backing out en masse.

The E.U.'s dissolution has begun, no matter what happens - Globalism has just been spat in the face.

So you're okay with the UK destroying its economy and everyone else's economy?

Globalism should exist mostly to benefit the people which globalism in the way it exists now, it doesn't.

[stconquest]

10 minutes ago, AresKrieger said:

Yeah, I find it funny how wrong the polls were again, I was personally rooting for leave despite not actually having a race in the horse so to speak. Based on the 85% I'm going to assume ballots from the most populace regions are already being counted and are getting this ratio, thx for the info, you too @stconquest

Bottom line, if they leave, it indicates how fucked we really are as advanced societies.  Cooperation with neighboring countries should always produce more of a benefit than a detriment.  This is an example of failure due to greed and ignorance.  The euro zone did not have to be complicated.  It could have been built off it's strengths and kept in check;  only making changes that are guaranteed to flourish.

 

IDK, short term gains/losses aside, this seems sort of disappointing to me.

[SurvivorNVL]

1 minute ago, wcreek said:

So you're okay with the UK destroying its economy and everyone else's economy?

Globalism should exist mostly to benefit the people which globalism in the way it exists now, it doesn't.

Globalism will never exit to benefit others.  Just like Socialism doesn't raise people up, but lower the bar.  The world has been in motion to have an economic crash for sometime now, and now it may accelerate toward a healthy restart.  The economy always recovers, the global economy will recover, and in the wake of the soon to be mass exodus and dissolution of the E.U., competition, innovation, and world economies will grow just that bit further than they ever have been.  It's the nature of things.  Short term = austerity.  Long term = profitable results for independent nations and democracy.

 

The E.U. did one thing right - it re-invigorated nationalism and culture in ones country for a large portion that had begun to stop.

 

[handymanshandle]

1 minute ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Globalism will never exit to benefit others.  Just like Socialism doesn't raise people up, but lower the bar.  The world has been in motion to have an economic crash for sometime now, and now it may accelerate toward a healthy restart.  The economy always recovers, the global economy will recover, and in the wake of the soon to be mass exodus and dissolution of the E.U., competition, innovation, and world economies will grow just that bit further than they ever have been.  It's the nature of things.  Short term = austerity.  Long term = profitable results for independent nations and democracy.

 

The E.U. did one thing right - it re-invigorated nationalism and culture in ones country for a large portion that had begun to stop.

 

How is nationalism a good thing?

[SurvivorNVL]

1 minute ago, wcreek said:

How is nationalism a good thing?

Pride in ones culture, their country, their way of life isn't a good thing?  Proud of their nation, their community, their history.  Good and bad - cultures, and communities, nation-states aren't going away.  There will never be a successful, un-corrupt system that has a world-wide global-state.  The day it happens, truthfully, is when the Chinese out-breed us all and take the world over.  Or maybe Mars.  Mars is a clean slate, they just need no religions or cultures, but that's near impossible--unless it was turned to a cult of Elon Musk.

Nationalism is an excellent thing.  Competition with other countries is a good thing.  Competition is human nature, innovation is derived from competition, and from there it evolves cultures and people.  Like how the world hates the French - it's thanks to competition and rather risque battle strategies for taking ancient castles.

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, wcreek said:

How is nationalism a good thing?

Arrogance = winning...

 

...right?

[Nexus]

Guys the UK economy will be fine. The pound has fallen but that was expected and reactionary. It will recover.

Secondly we will still be trading with the EU but we will have greater power to choose other trade partners. 

The idea that staying in the EU will make our economy stronger is nonsense, considering the series of disasters that been ongoing over the years.

 

Also, on the point of cooperation, why do we have to be in a undemocratic political union to cooperate? Last time i checked we cooperate with other countries such as the USA or Australia despite the lack of a political union.

 

And yes nationalism is bad. Historically its been one of the biggest causes of war. Thankfully there is no prominent nationalist movement in the UK (other than the SNP in Scotland but that a whole different issue).

[.spider.]

Goodbye UK

Probably the right decision 

[stconquest]

2 minutes ago, Nexus said:

Guys the UK economy will be fine. The pound has fallen but that was expected and reactionary. It will recover.

Secondly we will still be trading with the EU but we will have greater power to choose other trade partners. 

The idea that staying in the EU will make our economy stronger is nonsense, considering the series of disasters that been ongoing over the years.

 

Also, on the point of cooperation, why do we have to be in a undemocratic political union to cooperate? Last time i checked we cooperate with other countries such as the USA or Australia despite the lack of a political union.

 

And yes nationalism is bad. Historically its been one of the biggest causes of war. Thankfully there is no prominent nationalist movement in the UK (other than the SNP in Scotland but that a whole different issue).

It is not that the UK won't survive/prosper with this change, that is a given.

 

At one point it seemed like a good idea to the representatives of the UK to join the union... now they leave... what changed?  How are the problems in the union not being fixed before major players in the game leave? 

 

Massive corruption hiding in the shadows... the problem is not gone; not for the UK and not for the union.

[Nexus]

1 minute ago, stconquest said:

It is not that the UK won't survive/prosper with this change, that is a given.

 

At one point it seemed like a good idea to the representatives of the UK to join the union... now they leave... what changed?  How are the problems in the union not being fixed before major players in the game leave? 

 

Massive corruption hiding in the shadows... the problem is not gone; not for the UK and not for the union.

The UK never chose to join the EU. It just sort of happened. Nothing has really changed, Britain has always been isolationist. We much prefer to see to our own affairs and deal with other nations when its in our mutual interest.

Too many issues with the EU to list here. Primarily its the un-elected bureaucrats that run the show and the lack of financial accountability. We also have to consider that we put more in that we get out, why should we do this? What benefit is it for us? 

 

As an aside:I do believe Britain should engage in trade with Europe and engage in any peacekeeping talks etc. I also support free movement of people between European countries but we do not have to be in the political union to be members of the market or the Schengen area.

[AresKrieger]

28 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Bottom line, if they leave, it indicates how fucked we really are as advanced societies.  Cooperation with neighboring countries should always produce more of a benefit than a detriment.  This is an example of failure due to greed and ignorance.  The euro zone did not have to be complicated.  It could have been built off it's strengths and kept in check;  only making changes that are guaranteed to flourish.

 

IDK, short term gains/losses aside, this seems sort of disappointing to me.

Well I don't blame the UK citizens for choosing leave they are often in opposition to EU decisions and they really can't do anything about it besides leaving additionally the EU has plans to become more federation like the structure of the US, also remember this is not a binding agreement though I suspect not leaving or making arrangements to do so by mps would result in political suicide at best.

Edited June 24, 2016 by AresKrieger
I'm dumb

[handymanshandle]

2 minutes ago, SurvivorNVL said:

Pride in ones culture, their country, their way of life isn't a good thing?  Proud of their nation, their community, their history.  Good and bad - cultures, and communities, nation-states aren't going away.  There will never be a successful, un-corrupt system that has a world-wide global-state.  The day it happens, truthfully, is when the Chinese out-breed us all and take the world over.  Or maybe Mars.  Mars is a clean slate, they just need no religions or cultures, but that's near impossible--unless it was turned to a cult of Elon Musk.

Nationalism is an excellent thing.  Competition with other countries is a good thing.  Competition is human nature, innovation is derived from competition, and from there it evolves cultures and people.  Like how the world hates the French - it's thanks to competition and rather risque battle strategies for taking ancient castles.

Like @stconquest said it's arrogance. There's a difference between nationalism and patriotism. Both are bad views to have because they tend to breed fascism. Try telling Germany that nationalism is great.

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

Arrogance = winning...

 

...right?

Yup totally

2 minutes ago, Nexus said:

Guys the UK economy will be fine. The pound has fallen but that was expected and reactionary. It will recover.

Secondly we will still be trading with the EU but we will have greater power to choose other trade partners. 

The idea that staying in the EU will make our economy stronger is nonsense, considering the series of disasters that been ongoing over the years.

 

Also, on the point of cooperation, why do we have to be in a undemocratic political union to cooperate? Last time i checked we cooperate with other countries such as the USA or Australia despite the lack of a political union.

 

And yes nationalism is bad. Historically its been one of the biggest causes of war. Thankfully there is no prominent nationalist movement in the UK (other than the SNP in Scotland but that a whole different issue).

Wouldn't ejecting Greece solve the problem of immigration and considering their 2012 economic crisis and slow recovery they should be ejected from the EU or at least suspended. Of course I know that's not what happened but if the UK stays, why not push for that? If Greece is ejected or suspended that should technically mean they can't participate in the Schengen.

 

Especially if they're threatening to just let in Syrian immigrants in without a second and maybe third lookback and push for getting Turkey into the EU faster.

 

8 minutes ago, stconquest said:

It is not that the UK won't survive/prosper with this change, that is a given.

 

At one point it seemed like a good idea to the representatives of the UK to join the union... now they leave... what changed?  How are the problems in the union not being fixed before major players in the game leave? 

 

Massive corruption hiding in the shadows... the problem is not gone; not for the UK and not for the union.

The UKIP (the party mostly responsible for this referendum) also argued that it would solve their problems with immigration. I'm guessing they're mostly talking about arabs. Not sure what their (or Front Nationale's) stance would be on say Canadian or American immigrants would be. If they're hypocrites (which I'm going to go out on a limb (hopefully not the one I broke and recovered from a few months ago) and say they are hypocrites)  then they're fine with American and Canadian immigrants. 
 

I understand not wanting Muslim immigrants some of them might be terrorist or likely to become radicalized or want to implement sharia law or feel that their new home country's laws don't apply to them, but if that's the problem just say that for fucks sake. If they're not hypocrites then their problem is with all immigrants regardless of religion, race or color. Then I think they're a little less deplorable even though I disagree with a complete anti-immigrant stance no matter where that immigrant comes from (even if it's say the US or Canada). The UKIP is a lot like the FN so yeah.

[stconquest]

@Nexus  @AresKrieger

 

Maybe it will wake up the people running the show... but that is naive thinking.  I really don't know how good or bad the decision is for the UK.  To me, it is just an example of how badly an inherently good concept can fail.  Failure due to people that lose sight of what makes something... good.  Simplicity has it's value.

 

There is no way the EU should fail the UK to such a degree... and possibly vice versa.

 

Again, I don't know too much about this.  Conceptually, this is just a symptom of a larger problem.

[handymanshandle]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

@Nexus  @AresKrieger

 

Maybe it will wake up the people running the show... but that is naive thinking.  I really don't know how good or bad the decision is for the UK.  To me, it is just an example of how bad an inherently good concept can fail.  Failure due to people that lose sight of what makes thing... good.  Simplicity has it's value.

 

There is no way the EU should fail the UK to such a degree... and possibly vice versa.

 

Again, I don't know too much about this.  Conceptually, this is just a symptom to a larger problem.

I like the idea of the EU. I like the idea that I could go from France to Germany, with out needing a passport and I could use the same currency. That to me is really cool and a nice thing that exists. I wouldn't lose any of my money to converting it and it just seems like a great system. I mean member nations should have the ability to reject laws that the EU implements and vise versa (well the EU should only be able to reject laws in member nations if it is collectively seen as a humans rights violation (say a member nation wants to make being gay illegal and have it be a crime punishable by death. That is a human rights violation and the EU should be able to prevent that law from going into action.)

[handymanshandle]

3 minutes ago, wcreek said:

I like the idea of the EU. I like the idea that I could go from France to Germany, with out needing a passport and I could use the same currency. That to me is really cool and a nice thing that exists. I wouldn't lose any of my money to converting it and it just seems like a great system. I mean member nations should have the ability to reject laws that the EU implements and vise versa (well the EU should only be able to reject laws in member nations if it is collectively seen as a humans rights violation (say a member nation wants to make being gay illegal and have it be a crime punishable by death. That is a human rights violation and the EU should be able to prevent that law from going into action.)

I also thought about something by the UK leaving the EU wouldn't that mean that the cheap flights to and from the UK to Europe would probably end? Wouldn't that force an airline like EasyJet to raise their prices? @SurvivorNVL

[AresKrieger]

2 minutes ago, stconquest said:

....

 

Again, I don't know too much about this.  Conceptually, this is just a symptom to a larger problem.

The problem is politicians ignoring the will of the people, and economic establishment not caring about the little guy, people are angry and they know who has been controlling the issues affecting them, whether or not they will make wise decisions who knows. I personally don't think this is the end of this transition, it's merely just begining.