"Brexit"

[dalekphalm]

3 minutes ago, xentropa said:

They wanted Cameron to initiate article 50 and take the heat for any immediate economic fallout effects.  Now that he's quit they don't want to be responsible for it.

Why would Cameron do it though? That was a terrible plan if so. Cameron was staunch "Remain". If people voted to leave, then they essentially voted that they didn't want him anymore.

[xentropa]

I agree Cameron shouldnt have.

 

UKIP wanted him as a scapegoat.  They knew leaving EU would have immediate temporary negative effects that they wanted to happen on Cameron's watch.  Cameron wasnt going to have that so he quit.

 

Now that the scapegoat is gone UKIP has been hesitant to step up to the plate.

[Rupe]

11 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

How ya'll #Brexit #Leave voters feeling now? Pretty much all of the Brexit "leaders" have dropped out, and are bailing on running for PM.

 

This was the biggest problem with Brexit. No plan. No leadership. They honestly didn't expect to win. There was no actual plan on what to do next. Nigel and Boris basically went "Yeah! Let's leave the EU! Fuck immigration! #MakeUKGreatAgain! ... oh, we won? Goodluckbye!"

Nigel Firage leaving was the best thing for the party, there was a lot of infighting within UKIP (notably Farage falling out with the only UKIP MeP) and Nigel Farage has a bad stigma among the majority of the general populous. This will allow UKIP to re-brand going forward if they wish to continue as a political movement once article 50 has been initiated. Think how the SNP were able to re-brand themselves after they lost the Scottish referendum when Alex Salmond stepped down and Nicola Sturgen became the new leader, they then went and took all areas in Scotland in the general election. 

Boris only left the PM race because of the actions of Micheal Gove. 

At the end of the day regardless of the actions of the public figures for the leave campaign there are legitimate reasons for leaving the EU and character attacking people as the IN campaign loves to do does not make those reasons go away.

Ultimately it was up too the prime minister David Cameron to have come up with a plan for if the vote was to leave. Regardless of what side of the debate he was on it is still his responsibility to plan for both outcomes, for as the one in power he is the one with the ability to change things. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson don't hold power in parliament this is the job of the prime minister.

[dalekphalm]

1 hour ago, Rupe said:

Nigel Firage leaving was the best thing for the party, there was a lot of infighting within UKIP (notably Farage falling out with the only UKIP MeP) and Nigel Farage has a bad stigma among the majority of the general populous. This will allow UKIP to re-brand going forward if they wish to continue as a political movement once article 50 has been initiated. Think how the SNP were able to re-brand themselves after they lost the Scottish referendum when Alex Salmond stepped down and Nicola Sturgen became the new leader, they then went and took all areas in Scotland in the general election. 

Boris only left the PM race because of the actions of Micheal Gove. 

At the end of the day regardless of the actions of the public figures for the leave campaign there are legitimate reasons for leaving the EU and character attacking people as the IN campaign loves to do does not make those reasons go away.

Ultimately it was up too the prime minister David Cameron to have come up with a plan for if the vote was to leave. Regardless of what side of the debate he was on it is still his responsibility to plan for both outcomes, for as the one in power he is the one with the ability to change things. Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson don't hold power in parliament this is the job of the prime minister.

Putting the responsibility of planning the "Leave" on Cameron literally makes no sense. He was voted in and elected as a PM that is a part of the EU. He is an EU supporter. He doesn't want to leave, and he thinks it would be bad for the country to do so. People voted leave, so he did the right thing, which was to step down.

 

The "leave" campaign leaders are trying to use him as a scapegoat.

 

Voted leave? Great. Now vote in a PM that also wants to leave, who has a solid, clear plan on enacting Article 50, and a solid, clear plan on withdrawing from the EU.

 

#Brexit has been a disaster for everyone in the UK, whether they voted leave or remain. If the #Brexit Leave campaigners actually had a plan, that would be different... But they didn't.

 

Yes, Cameron is partially to blame though - he did initiate the vote. But it was a calculated move to shut up the anti-EU crowd. It backfired, horribly. Part of that was due to the fact that the Leave leaders straight up lied to the people and promised things they later back tracked on.

 

I suspect if another vote was held today, it would probably go 60/40 remain/leave, but that's simply speculation.

 

In any case, it's now up to the upcoming Party Leaders to campaign for what they believe in (Eg: If they believe in Leave, they will campaign around a solid, actionable plan, that is feasible and realistic), and if they win, they can enact Article 50.

[Whiskers]

This whole situation is a mess and it's only going to get worse.

 

England is looking like it's going to either have Theresa May (the woman responsible for the Snooper's Charter, woot woot), or Jeremy Corbyn as its next prime minister. And I'm not expecting Labour to do particularly well in the next general election, so we're stuck with a second Thatcher...

 

The most concerning thing is the rapid increase in reports of racially motivated crimes and incidents. I heard recently there has been a fivefold increase in such after the referendum, and a lot of EU immigrants and foreigners living in the UK have been made to feel entirely unwelcome and even hated. Disgusting.

[Citadelen]

45 minutes ago, Whiskers said:

-snip-

If Jeremy can get in it'll be exactly what this country and it's people need. The constant degrading of public spending and selling off of public services is having a nasty effect on the country.

[Rupe]

3 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Putting the responsibility of planning the "Leave" on Cameron literally makes no sense. He was voted in and elected as a PM that is a part of the EU. He is an EU supporter. He doesn't want to leave, and he thinks it would be bad for the country to do so. People voted leave, so he did the right thing, which was to step down.

 

The "leave" campaign leaders are trying to use him as a scapegoat.

 

Voted leave? Great. Now vote in a PM that also wants to leave, who has a solid, clear plan on enacting Article 50, and a solid, clear plan on withdrawing from the EU.

 

#Brexit has been a disaster for everyone in the UK, whether they voted leave or remain. If the #Brexit Leave campaigners actually had a plan, that would be different... But they didn't.

 

Yes, Cameron is partially to blame though - he did initiate the vote. But it was a calculated move to shut up the anti-EU crowd. It backfired, horribly. Part of that was due to the fact that the Leave leaders straight up lied to the people and promised things they later back tracked on.

 

I suspect if another vote was held today, it would probably go 60/40 remain/leave, but that's simply speculation.

 

In any case, it's now up to the upcoming Party Leaders to campaign for what they believe in (Eg: If they believe in Leave, they will campaign around a solid, actionable plan, that is feasible and realistic), and if they win, they can enact Article 50.

Your wrong, and you didn't address my point, the prime minister needs to plan for both eventuality's regardless of the outcome of the vote, because that what is best for the country and that should be the prime ministers goal, although I don't think it matters in the grand scheme of things because we can initiate article 50 whenever we want, so we can wait until we have got plans in place to replace the functions of the EU such as new trade agreements, so I agree with your point that we should ellect a pm who does have a clear plan for the future.

 

The remain campaign has no right to claim they use people as scapegoats, think how they berated Nigel Farage over the 350 million to NHS claim. A claim he never made.  They treated it like a gotcha moment! and it was repeated by the mainstream media because the broadcast media in particular is very pro remain. The leave campaign was not his campaign,UKIP went against the leave campaign for the funding with there own Grassroots campaign so to connect him to that claim specifically is disingenuous.

And the hate mongering out of the remain campaign, seeing Sadiq Khan calling boris Johnson and the leave campaign hateful. The amount of hateful people claiming that the leave campaign was a xenaphobic racist one. Truly disgusting and insulting stuff by people who are clearly misinformed to make such claims, and many of votes the remain camp got were from people that wanted to simply keep the status quo and who did not weigh up each side. 

 

The remain is much worse for fear mongering and the promises that were backtracked on by the IN campaign was what? That 350 million was not necessarily going to the NHS? The implication here is that the money does not exist, true it is in fact 290 million that is what it should of said on the side of the bus but the point is the money can be put into whatever we want to put the money into, for example the NHS, but it could go into public services, the military, infrastructure etc. Anything the next government chooses to do with it the money is there.

 

Why would you blame Cameron for starting the vote? 52 percent of the people that voted want to leave the EU and the government is meant to represent the people so it was the right thing to have the vote and you continue to demonstrate how undemocratic you are by both your support for the in campaign but also for arguing a vote should not of gone ahead in the first place.

 

You suspect if another vote was held today it would be 60/40 remain/leave? yes that definitely stinks of speculation. 

[Mug]

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 1:01 PM, Rupe said:

Boris only left the PM race because of the actions of Micheal Gove.

Boris couldn't have became PM anyway, he'd said too much shit during the campaign.

[Mug]

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 6:35 PM, Rupe said:

they berated Nigel Farage over the 350 million to NHS claim. A claim he never made.  

I think his claim was something like £20bn/year which I find much more believable but still, the fact that he didn't actively go against the claim was bad - it shows just how little integrity he has, he'll stay silent as long as he gets his way.

 

On ‎08‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 6:35 PM, Rupe said:

The remain is much worse for fear mongering

Of course it was, when you campaign for the status quo, the result is always going to be "well, you might lose x, y and z which you rather like"

 

The SNP for example, scaremongering about post-brexit austerity

Labour scaremongering about post-brexit workers' rights

Tories scaremongering about the economy

 

When you campaign for leaving something, you can play on people's dislike of the status quo; it's always going to be a more compelling argument.