Microsoft Hits a New Low - Pressing Close Will Now Install Windows 10

[patrick3027]

15 hours ago, spwath said:

Why not just get windows 10?
Its newer than 7 and will have better future support and is free for now...

You like not having a choice? Man, you sure must love communism.

[spwath]

4 minutes ago, patrick3027 said:

You like not having a choice? Man, you sure must love communism.

Im not opposed to socialist ideas.

 

And there is choice, they are just trying to stear you in the right direction

[ADM-Ntek]

for people like my parents windows 10 is hell. my dad installed it on his laptop and the amount of cursing is just insane. and don´t even get me started on my mother i would have to completely retrain her. and it looks like ass.  

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

And when it became "ok go ahead"? Stop defending this malware and mspy...

It never did, the notification is telling you its going to happen, its not asking you. Its like i said earlier, if you receive a letter telling you something is going to happen unless you specifically tell them not to and you chuck the letter away without responding then you have no right to complain when said thing happens. Close means exactly that, close, it doesn't mean yes and it doesn't mean no.

 

34 minutes ago, Weird Face said:

Since... always? At the very least, it can be interpreted as a non-response.

 

Think if an unwanted automated telemarketer called you when you're busy or otherwise doing something else, advertising a product you have absolutely no interest or need for. Rather than listening to the whole recording about how you should buy X product or service, you hang up the phone. To your surprise, you find your credit card charged with the product advertised by the telemarketing robocall even though you never said "yes" to ordering anything and hung up instead.

 

So yes, clicking X/hanging up is basically a "no" response. It is definitely not a "yes" response.

Totally flawed example, the notification is a NOTIFICATION, its not asking you if you want it, its telling you that unless you respond it will upgrade your PC. Pressing close is a non response. Seems pretty open/shut to me.

[Delicieuxz]

13 hours ago, othertomperson said:

It turns out a public alpha is no replacement for the team of skilled testers that they laid off.

I think this has been very true. The leaner, "more agile" Microsoft that Satya Nadella has formed is nowhere near as robust a Microsoft as previously was. And Microsoft has become a much sleazier product under Satya Nadella.

 

6 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Source?

 

Even though I personally have experienced issues on a couple computers (3 computers - out of like, literally 100), I'm EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL that the people having issues are the majority. If someone didn't have any issues, they are extremely unlikely to post about it. The vocal minority that have issues always raise more of a ruckus (as they should, to get their issues addressed).

 

Remember, there are now over 300 Million active Windows 10 users. You're telling me over 150 Million of them are having issues?

The number of people who have had issues while upgrading to Win 10 without a clean installation is huge. I've had serious issues even from a clean installation, and in W10 I still get an occasional BSOD, crashes, and I still cannot save a file to my root D:, for some unfathomable reason. I also couldn't use Windows Update, as it stayed in search mode for... a couple months?... until I contacted MS tech support, and they remotely ran a bunch of script on my PC to reset the Windows Update.

 

A vocal group, when it comes to PC software usually is representative of a more massive number of people, most of whom don't bother to engage online about their issues, or who just endure the issues they're having, being unfamiliar with PC tech solving, and solution searching.

 

5 hours ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

UPDATE: apparently Microsoft has reversed their decision: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36376962

That is good. If only MS would reverse the many other bad and anti-consumer decisions they've been making since Satya Nadella became CEO.

 

6 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

I'm curious as to when close became no exactly?

Closing a program with the X button typically, as in pretty much always, is a declining statement to the information that is presented in the screen. So, in effect, closing using the X button precedes acknowledgement of the proposition to which No could apply. Closing using the X button is typically saying, "not interested in the whole proposition, to the extent that I'm not even going to dignify the proposition by accepting its query."

[Mr.Meerkat]

Here's me with windows update completely disabled...disabled it the second I found out windows would auto update to win 10 so it never got the chance to  download (and found out why I was getting over 500 ping in 2 days while my mother and sis weren't downloading anything or infact doing anything...their lappys were auto downloading windows 10...this was before my internet got upgraded )

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Closing a program with the X button typically, as in pretty much always, is a declining statement to the information that is presented in the screen. So, in effect, closing using the X button precedes acknowledgement of the proposition to which No could apply. Closing using the X button is typically saying, "not interested in the whole proposition, to the extent that I'm not even going to dignify the proposition by accepting its query."

So when I close down word I'm basically saying I'm not interested in using word despite having already used word? I'm confused?

 

X means close, it always has and it always will, it means close on Windows, Mac OS and Linux, it does not give any indication of preference towards any response, it simply means "close this window now".

[Delicieuxz]

1 minute ago, Master Disaster said:

So when I close down word I'm basically saying I'm not interested in using word despite having already used word? I'm confused?

 

X means close, it always has and it always will, it means close on Windows, Mac OS and Linux, it does not give any indication of preference towards any response, it simply means "close this window now".

Um, yes, when you close Word using the X button, you are saying you're not interested in using Word anymore. That's a perfect analogy, which fits my previous description that shows Microsoft's usage of the X button in the rescinded Win 10 prompt to be an alteration of the normal X button meaning.

 

And when Word prompts you whether you'd like to save your document, and you click the X button on that prompt, you're saying you're not interested in the proposition, and that prompt goes away, and you're back in Word, with no additional action taken one way or the other. Likewise, when closing a Win 10 upgrade prompt with the X button, it's not a statement of action one way or another, but is a dismissal of the proposition.

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Delicieuxz said:

Um, yes, when you close Word using the X button, you are saying you're not interested in using Word anymore. That's a perfect analogy, which fits my previous description that shows Microsoft's usage of the X button in the rescinded Win 10 prompt to be an alteration of the normal X button meaning.

 

And when Word prompts you whether you'd like to save your document, and you click the X button on that prompt, you're saying you're not interested in the proposition, and that prompt goes away, and you're back in Word, with no additional action taken one way or the other. Likewise, when closing a Win 10 upgrade prompt with the X button, it's not a statement of action one way or another, but is a dismissal of the proposition.

Yes, but when the notification specifically states the action will take place unless you respond with no, a dismissal is the same as a non response which in this case is an acceptance of the notification. You didn't say no ergo you accept for this action to occur.

[Delicieuxz]

I'm going to be completely serious here in calling what Microsoft has been doing under Satya Nadella as rape culture as a business practice. It has been the same mentalilty, the same disregard of the person, the same over-ruling of a person's say regarding their own property and identity, and the same imposing of a will over an unwilling recipient. It is rape culture mentality.

 

Now, I don't where Microsoft has got this mentality from, but it's extremely unconventional. However, India has a big problem with rape culture mentality, and even though it's making efforts against it, it continues to be an ingrained mentality in much of the country. I seriously wonder if this is a mentality Satya Nadella has within him because he is Indian immigrant, and he simply doesn't have the understand of what is appropriate and what isn't regarding consideration of other people, and the importance of having people's consent, and the importance of not imposing one's will over another person, or people.

 

What I see Microsoft doing is employing the very same mentality and attitude that is rape culture, which is a problem in India, and it all come into play as Satya Nadella's new direction and conduct for Microsoft. I think it is a bigger problem than people getting an OS they didn't choose and don't want, and I see it as a personal disregard of myself, and of all those people that Microsoft has been forcing to install Win 10. Microsoft needs to re-learn the lesson of consent, and that No means No.

[Master Disaster]

And no, X does not mean "No", it means " Close". All you have to do is hover over an X button and a tooltip will appear which says "Close".

 

You might perceive close and no to be the same thing but it really isn't.

[Delicieuxz]

3 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Yes, but when the notification specifically states the action will take place unless you respond with no, a dismissal is the same as a non response which in this case is an acceptance of the notification. You didn't say no ergo you accept for this action to occur.

You are bit correct there, but the switch on a window that user have become accustomed to not even looking at, because they know what it is, but simply flicking away within a second when they boot up their PC... Microsoft knew exactly what they were doing there, and they were preying on people's expectations of X button convention, and familiarity with that particular Win 10 upgrade screen. That pestering upgrade screen should not even be a thing that keeps bothering people, but since it is, people need to deal with it. Now that they've learned to deal with it by simply closing it, and have been doing so for such a long time, Microsoft added another layer of interference, and pulled a switch on them.

 

The changing of the window context is unconventional, and what MS was doing was exploiting people's expectations. So, while the relation of the X button to the window's wording was accurate, the whole scenario was underhanded.

[ApolloFury]

16 hours ago, Thefireofwar11 said:

See that "click here" button it says that you can cancel the upgrade or schedule it, maybe you can get rid of it maybe.

I don't have Windows 7 or 8 I am on 10 so yeah

Yes but Microsoft keeps sending this generic notifications up your screen and you are incline to close it before seeing how it is different to the previous notifications.

And also that Click Here button is purposely so small and camouflaged amongst the sea of text. .

 

Its like those pesky popup ads, you will instantly close them before paying attention to them, except this time its like "if close this ad THIS time, you agreed to allow us to launch a nuclear missile to your home", but ofcourse you wouldn't know that since you closed a GENERIC LOOKING ad that you always see every other day.

[Master Disaster]

2 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

You are bit correct there, but the switch on a window that user have become accustomed to not even looking at, because they know what it is, but simply flicking away within a second when they boot up their PC... Microsoft knew exactly what they were doing there, and they were preying on people's expectations of X button convention, and familiarity with that particular Win 10 upgrade screen. That pestering upgrade screen should not even be a thing that keeps bothering people, but since it is, people need to deal with it. Now that they've learned to deal with it by simply closing it, and have been doing so for such a long time, Microsoft added another layer of interference, and pulled a switch on them.

 

The changing of the window context is unconventional, and what MS was doing was exploiting people's expectations. So, while the relation of the X button to the window's wording was accurate, the whole scenario was underhanded.

Yeah I'd agree, but you really can't blame MS for using peoples complacency as a method of pushing updates. I always make a point of reading everything, no matter how familiar I think I am with it.

 

I mean I'm not disagreeing that its a shitty thing to do but from their POV if it works then why not?

[Delicieuxz]

3 hours ago, Master Disaster said:

Yeah I'd agree, but you really can't blame MS for using peoples complacency as a method of pushing updates. I always make a point of reading everything, no matter how familiar I think I am with it.

 

I mean I'm not disagreeing that its a shitty thing to do but from their POV if it works then why not?

Because when it's done knowing that it only works because people are expecting the opposite outcome, it's not really different than simply upgrading all PCs to Win 10, without asking at all. It disregards people's interests and is abusive. It's sort of like saying, well, I can mug that lady and take her purse, so why not?

[BuckGup]

16 hours ago, spwath said:

Why not just get windows 10?
Its newer than 7 and will have better future support and is free for now...

But it still sucks. I would like to use it but I would like to use my computer

[Michael McAllister]

@LAwLz This can be avoided with Never10.

[Master Disaster]

18 minutes ago, Delicieuxz said:

Because when its done knowing that it only works because people are expecting the opposite outcome, it's not really different than simply upgrading all PCs to Win 10, without asking at all. It disregards people's interests and is abusive. It's sort of like saying, well, I can mug that lady and take her purse, so why not?

Not really. Stealing a purse is illegal, taking advantage of the fact that people assume they know the answer to the question before its even been asked is not.

 

The onus is on the user to read and digest the information that is being presented to them and act accordingly to it.

[BHS4K]

I fucked up windows update on purpose while windows 10 was an insider preview I don't think my netbook can handle it (I only use it for emergencies )

[MSWindowsinside]

Or you just install it on day one and don't give a shit like normal people do.

[vanished]

6 hours ago, Weird Face said:

Since... always? At the very least, it can be interpreted as a non-response.

 

Think if an unwanted automated telemarketer called you when you're busy or otherwise doing something else, advertising a product you have absolutely no interest or need for. Rather than listening to the whole recording about how you should buy X product or service, you hang up the phone. To your surprise, you find your credit card charged with the product advertised by the telemarketing robocall even though you never said "yes" to ordering anything and hung up instead.

 

So yes, clicking X/hanging up is basically a "no" response. It is definitely not a "yes" response.

If I can weigh in on this UI debate, I think you've got the right idea - it's a non-response.  And, as such, and good interface would not offer a close button if the interface has other buttons that it intends you to choose between (something like "cancel" and "ok").  In situations where "close" has an obvious meaning (where a popup only has 1 button, like "ok" just to dismiss the message) hitting close is appropriate, but in cases where the user must choose between 1 option and another, they should not be given the option to dismiss the dialog without choosing since "close" in that case can (clearly) mean different things to different people.  The only case where there should be close offered in conjunction with other options is when the choice between other options is offered, not required.  In that case, and in that case alone, I think it can be taken to mean "I'm not dealing with this right now, just do nothing"

[TheWutofWat]

5 hours ago, ApolloFury said:

Yes but Microsoft keeps sending this generic notifications up your screen and you are incline to close it before seeing how it is different to the previous notifications.

And also that Click Here button is purposely so small and camouflaged amongst the sea of text. .

 

Its like those pesky popup ads, you will instantly close them before paying attention to them, except this time its like "if close this ad THIS time, you agreed to allow us to launch a nuclear missile to your home", but ofcourse you wouldn't know that since you closed a GENERIC LOOKING ad that you always see every other day.

That is true and what I want to say is you could but MicroShit are an A Holes and wants our information

[Master Disaster]

24 minutes ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

If I can weigh in on this UI debate, I think you've got the right idea - it's a non-response.  And, as such, and good interface would not offer a close button if the interface has other buttons that it intends you to choose between (something like "cancel" and "ok").  In situations where "close" has an obvious meaning (where a popup only has 1 button, like "ok" just to dismiss the message) hitting close is appropriate, but in cases where the user must choose between 1 option and another, they should not be given the option to dismiss the dialog without choosing since "close" in that case can (clearly) mean different things to different people.  The only case where there should be close offered in conjunction with other options is when the choice between other options is offered, not required.  In that case, and in that case alone, I think it can be taken to mean "I'm not dealing with this right now, just do nothing"

100% agree with this, in cases like this the close (X) button should be disabled so the user must either accept or cancel the action.

[othertomperson]

15 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Source?

 

Even though I personally have experienced issues on a couple computers (3 computers - out of like, literally 100), I'm EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL that the people having issues are the majority. If someone didn't have any issues, they are extremely unlikely to post about it. The vocal minority that have issues always raise more of a ruckus (as they should, to get their issues addressed).

 

Remember, there are now over 300 Million active Windows 10 users. You're telling me over 150 Million of them are having issues?

It's effectively public alpha. It would be a miracle of most people weren't experiencing issues.

[Unhelpful]

I'm okay with this purely to avoid another XP. Fuck that shit. I just wish they would fix some of the privacy problems, even if they did also exist in 7.