ISP Lobbying group claims competition is bad for customers

[Trik'Stari]

Well, break out your alcohol boys and girls (if you have it), time for more ISP bullshit.

 

Quote

Cable providers usually avoid each other's territory, choosing not to "overbuild" in cities and towns where other cable networks already exist. But Charter agreed to bring some competition to the cable market in exchange for the Federal Communications Commission's approval of its purchase of Time Warner Cable and Bright House Networks. Specifically, Charter will deploy high-speed broadband to at least 2 million residential and small business locations, of which at least 1 million must be in areas served by at least one other provider.

 

Naturally, cable companies aren't happy about facing competition. The American Cable Association (ACA), the lobby for smaller providers, said yesterday that it is "troubled" by the FCC's overbuilding requirement on Charter. But instead of just arguing that competition will hurt small cable companies, the ACA also claims that competition will be bad for customers

 

"The requirement on Charter to overbuild competitors will harm consumers in two ways," ACA CEO Matthew Polkasaid. "First, it will harm Charter's customers by preventing Charter from investing its resources most efficiently, such as by upgrading its networks to higher speeds. Second, it will harm customers of local, small providers when these customers are satisfied with their existing service."

Source: http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/05/cable-lobby-group-broadband-competition-is-bad-for-customers/

 

I..... I honestly have no words for this. I really hope we can have a repeat of the "Internet Freedom Act" and force congress to ignore this group. They get subsidies for upgrading and extending their networks, not to mention fiber being the better option since it doesn't have to be constantly service all the time like copper infrastructure does (cheaper to maintain, if that isn't clear enough)

[thekeemo]

Quote

when customers are satisfied with their current services

How is that a problem?

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, CUDA_Cores said:

this... this doesn't even make any sense. We NEED competition in ANY market. An example of what happens if there is no competition is go look at intels CPU improvements. They've only improved a few percent a year because they have no competition from AMD.

Yeah, what they meant to say is "competition is harmful for profit, and we will make anyone and everyone suffer right along with us".

 

That's how corporations seem to operate these days.

[ivan134]

I know quite a few people on this forum who think the same. 

[Lurick]

14 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Well, break out your alcohol boys and girls (if you have it), time for more ISP bullshit.

 

Source: http://arstechnica.com/business/2016/05/cable-lobby-group-broadband-competition-is-bad-for-customers/

 

I..... I honestly have no words for this. I really hope we can have a repeat of the "Internet Freedom Act" and force congress to ignore this group. They get subsidies for upgrading and extending their networks, not to mention fiber being the better option since it doesn't have to be constantly service all the time like copper infrastructure does (cheaper to maintain, if that isn't clear enough)

 

Except they get subsidies and do absolutely nothing to improve anything and nobody makes a peep.

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140424/06185027014/verizon-knows-youre-sucker-takes-taxpayer-subsidies-broadband-doesnt-deliver-lobbies-to-drop-requirements.shtml

[thekeemo]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

Yeah, what they meant to say is "competition is harmful for profit, and we will make anyone and everyone suffer right along with us".

 

That's how corporations seem to operate these days.

Its taking the bad aspects from the left and right wings.

No competition and for profit.

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Lurick said:

 

Except they get subsidies and do absolutely nothing to improve anything and nobody makes a peep.

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140424/06185027014/verizon-knows-youre-sucker-takes-taxpayer-subsidies-broadband-doesnt-deliver-lobbies-to-drop-requirements.shtml

That's what makes this pure bullshit.

[BuckGup]

5 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

this... this doesn't even make any sense. We NEED competition in ANY market. An example of what happens if there is no competition is go look at intels CPU improvements. They've only improved a few percent a year because they have no competition from AMD.

That isn't the main reason. There is the whole physics side of it and we have gotten so small we need other materials then silicon. 

[handymanshandle]

5 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

Its taking the bad aspects from the left and right wings.

No competition and for profit.

For Profit and Non-Profit companies are fine, though some to tend to abuse their corporate status...

More so with Non-Profits.

[thekeemo]

Just now, wcreek said:

For Profit and Non-Profit companies are fine, though some to tend to abuse their corporate status...

More so with Non-Profits.

I believe the world would be a better place if the goal wasnt profit but to help others.

[SuperShermanTanker]

And here I am stuck with optimum 30megabits per second down and only 5 count them 5 megabits upload (the pain when uploading videos to my YouTube channel 7 hour upload when I uploaded a 12gb file of a replay of one of my live streams) and that's the only home plan they offer the only other plan they offer is business and that's freaking expensive

[Lurick]

And for everyone wondering why most of these ISPs can keep going without competition:

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160315/15115033915/tennessee-makes-it-clear-protecting-att-comcast-broadband-competition-is-top-priority.shtml

 

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160226/11285433724/att-buying-missouri-state-law-ensuring-broadband-there-continues-to-suck.shtml

 

Must be nice to write laws and give them to others to enact for you

[Trik'Stari]

3 minutes ago, SuperShermanTanker said:

And here I am stuck with optimum 30megabits per second down and only 5 count them 5 megabits upload (the pain when uploading videos to my YouTube channel 7 hour upload when I uploaded a 12gb file of a replay of one of my live streams) and that's the only home plan they offer the only other plan they offer is business and that's freaking expensive

We pay around $70 a month to Century Link for "10 down 1 up" and it barely functions. Some times, at night, I'll get "DNS errors" that disconnect me, if I am "using too much internet".

 

Filed FCC complaints, Century Link claims "bandwidth exhaustion", although they claimed the issue would be resolved by April/May of this year. Still ongoing.

[handymanshandle]

Just now, thekeemo said:

I believe the world would be a better place if the goal wasnt profit but to help others.

That's a grand idea, but the thing is. Is that bartering whether it be with money or with objects has been a thing for a long time and there's really no real easy way on achieving that. I do think that the goal of a company should be to not focus on its profit so long as it is earning enough to sustain itself in terms of being able to pay its employees' wages and to sustain itself.

[Memories4K]

16 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

Are the people you are thinking communists or something? 

There's quite a number of people here that think competition or capitalism is wrong (which they are respectfully entitled to their views)

 

But companies that are not pressured to invest in the infrastructure is a bad thing, regardless of anyone's views.

 

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, wcreek said:

That's a grand idea, but the thing is. Is that bartering whether it be with money or with objects has been a thing for a long time and there's really no real easy way on achieving that. I do think that the goal of a company should be to not focus on its profit so long as it is earning enough to sustain itself in terms of being able to pay its employees' wages and to sustain itself.

"No profit = no incentive"

 

Is what they claim. Which is fine, there should be profit, but as much profit as possible, at the expense of everything else, should not be the ultimate goal.

[SSL]

5 minutes ago, thekeemo said:

I believe the world would be a better place if the goal wasnt profit but to help others.

 

People are inherently selfish. Every political and economic system ever has been designed either to exploit or combat this fact.

 

[Trik'Stari]

1 minute ago, Memories4K said:

There's quite a number of people here that think competition or capitalism is wrong (which they are respectfully entitled to their views)

 

But companies that are not pressured to invest in the infrastructure is a bad thing, regardless of anyone's views.

I think I know who you are talking about.

 

They generally overlook certain realities. Primary of which is that the US does NOT have a free market economy. In such an economy, the biggest corporations can fail just like the smallest. The other big problem is the idea of "corporate personhood". Corporations are not people, they are made up by people.

 

Several law changes could fix all this quite easily.

[HalGameGuru]

Point them to Romania then tell them to STFU

[handymanshandle]

3 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

"No profit = no incentive"

 

Is what they claim. Which is fine, there should be profit, but as much profit as possible, at the expense of everything else, should not be the ultimate goal.

Essentially that's part of the reason Communism at least how Russia did (and most of the other countries that have had/still have did/done Communism) tend to have the biggest issue with is the lack of incentive.

 

Honestly though, I'm fine with Democratic Socialism those who are well off shouldn't get a free pass from paying their fair share but I mean they might've earned that money fairly through their own work which to that extent I think is honorable but it still doesn't give you a pass to not pay taxes or pay less than you really should.

 

Anyways, no they shouldn't be only in the business of making money they should also be in the business of pleasing their customers. Which internet isn't a necessity (at least, yet) however it is something that a lot of people do want and sometimes even need.

However for phone carriers and ISPs I bet a lot of the gross income for those types of companies after deductions/taxes/fees is mostly profit. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, though I think that it's likely that the amount of profit is more than what they probably need to stay comfortable.

[HalGameGuru]

5 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

but unfortunately that has been tried before with socialism and communism. The brutal truth of it is that people are naturally greedy. Therefore capitalism is the only way we can produce something good out of greed.

Capitalism is the only system whereby a man can profit by helping others. It is the best system by which wealth is generated. The problem is the artificial controls and protections in place that keep people from feeling the effects of their actions and keep them from facing true competition.

 

EDIT: "Prior to capitalism, the way people amassed great wealth was by looting, plundering and enslaving their fellow man. Capitalism made it possible to become wealthy by serving your fellow man." W.E. Williams

[thekeemo]

4 minutes ago, CUDA_Cores said:

but unfortunately that has been tried before with socialism and communism. The brutal truth of it is that people are naturally greedy. Therefore capitalism is the only way we can produce something good out of greed.

Socialism seems to work great in many parts of Europe.

12 minutes ago, SSL said:

People are inherently selfish. Every political and economic system ever has been designed either to exploit or combat this fact.

Nobody is inherently anything. It is your environment and how you were raised that makes you selfish.

16 minutes ago, wcreek said:

That's a grand idea, but the thing is. Is that bartering whether it be with money or with objects has been a thing for a long time and there's really no real easy way on achieving that. I do think that the goal of a company should be to not focus on its profit so long as it is earning enough to sustain itself in terms of being able to pay its employees' wages and to sustain itself.

I meant no corporate profit. Not saying that the people that work at the company shouldnt be paid!

 

Anyway off topic send a pm if you want to discuss this.

[durpflip]

the US (assuming that's what you meant when you said "congress") barely even has any competition and prices for great internet in the US are the cheapest i've seen in my entire life. at least you don't have to deal with bigshots taking advantage of their ISP monopoly to jack prices until the upper-middle class can't reach it anymore.

[Trik'Stari]

17 minutes ago, wcreek said:

Essentially that's part of the reason Communism at least how Russia did (and most of the other countries that have had/still have did/done Communism) tend to have the biggest issue with is the lack of incentive.

 

Honestly though, I'm fine with Democratic Socialism those who are well off shouldn't get a free pass from paying their fair share but I mean they might've earned that money fairly through their own work which to that extent I think is honorable but it still doesn't give you a pass to not pay taxes or pay less than you really should.

 

Anyways, no they shouldn't be only in the business of making money they should also be in the business of pleasing their customers. Which internet isn't a necessity (at least, yet) however it is something that a lot of people do want and sometimes even need.

However for phone carriers and ISPs I bet a lot of the gross income for those types of companies after deductions/taxes/fees is mostly profit. Which wouldn't be a bad thing, though I think that it's likely that the amount of profit is more than what they probably need to stay comfortable.

A businesses purpose should be to bring a product or service to market at a competitive price. Not to have a 90% profit margin. What profit they do make, should be shared with the people who actually do the work.

 

Note: Shared, not entirely given to. You still need to have a minimum wage, but on top of that should be an incentive, a percentage of the profit margin that gives employees a reason to try. The more money they help the company make, the more they make. And the people at the top, who hold most of the money in the world, will still need an incentive to use that money to own and operate corporations.

[ElZamo92]

Well, that's some BIG bullshit. Here in Mexico the only ISP available for a long time was America Telecom's Telmex, which was, and still is, slow AF. But when cable companies started offering faster internet for less money they had to lower their prices. Now we get a ton of options in big cities and prices are relatively low, like you can get parallel 200Mbps for about 60USD a month in some places.