MS update bricks win7 machine running on Asus board with UEFI

[NumLock21]

Microsoft patch KB3133977 bricks those who are running Windows 7 with Asus board on UEFI. The patch was originally set to optional until Microsoft decided to move it up to recommended so now it gets installed automatically. Windows 7 does not support secure boot, thus the reason why after installing this patch, it will prevent your OS from booting. Asus has provided a fix, to this problem.

http://www.techpowerup.com/222238/microsoft-botches-up-uefi-support-for-windows-7-on-asus-motherboards

Asus Fix

http://www.asus.com/support/FAQ/1016356/

[GoodBytes]

I don't think it is much of an issue in the sense of impact in number of users, as Windows 7 is very finicky about UEFI support, and not full support, and most people that run Windows 7 are on BIOS mode. It is really: If you have Windows 7 that you want to install in a huge partition of 3TB or more (which is silly, in my opinion), in order to boot, you have to go UEFI mode, and fiddle in getting Windows 7 working, unless you are lucky.

 

But good to see ASUS being fast at resolving the issue

[vanished]

8 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

Microsoft patch KB3133977 bricks those who are running Windows 7 with Asus board on UEFI. The patch was originally set to optional until Microsoft decided to move it up to recommended so now it gets installed automatically.

Oh the stories just never end... this is why I wrote the guide in my sig today.  So tired of this kind of thing

[PCgamer324]

hah all my asus boards use BIOS

 

in fact I don't own a single UEFI board lmao

[LAwLz]

Just goes to show that trusting Microsoft with automatic updates is a horrible, horrible idea.

 

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

I don't think it is much of an issue in the sense of impact in number of users, as Windows 7 is very finicky about UEFI support, and not full support, and most people that run Windows 7 are on BIOS mode. It is really: If you have Windows 7 that you want to install in a huge partition of 3TB or more (which is silly, in my opinion), in order to boot, you have to go UEFI mode, and fiddle in getting Windows 7 working, unless you are lucky.

 

But good to see ASUS being fast at resolving the issue

By "fiddle" you you mean turn off secure boot and/or turn on legacy BIOS mode? Because that's all that is needed. No further fiddling required. On a lot of boards you don't even need to do that.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

By "fiddle" you you mean turn off secure boot and/or turn on legacy BIOS mode? Because that's all that is needed. No further fiddling required. On a lot of boards you don't even need to do that.

Nooo, I meant purposefully trying to make it work with UEFI mode, so that the drive is formatted at GPT, so that you can boot to a drive partition bigger than 2TB.

[Misanthrope]

You know in the past, tech savvy people used to criticize me for my continued refusal to do regular updates, even security ones. Nowadays it seems like the only fucking way to be sure your system will be on a continued working state.

 

How is this for our benefit Microsoft? 

[NumLock21]

26 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

You know in the past, tech savvy people used to criticize me for my continued refusal to do regular updates, even security ones. Nowadays it seems like the only fucking way to be sure your system will be on a continued working state.

 

How is this for our benefit Microsoft? 

As a tech savvy person, you should be able to find a solution for the problem or have a work around.

[Misanthrope]

35 minutes ago, NumLock21 said:

As a tech savvy person, you should be able to find a solution for the problem or have a work around.

I can and do: for cash. As in when I take on tech support jobs for a living. But for my home and my own time? Nope. I want shit to work to spend my time relaxing, not troubleshooting.

[vanished]

3 minutes ago, Misanthrope said:

I can and do: for cash. As in when I take on tech support jobs for a living. But for my home and my own time? Nope. I want shit to work to spend my time relaxing, not troubleshooting.

I'm sure the people who pay you or someone else wish that too   Just goes to show, everyone has to be careful and not let their guard down when it comes to updates these days

[NumLock21]

1 hour ago, Misanthrope said:

I can and do: for cash. As in when I take on tech support jobs for a living. But for my home and my own time? Nope. I want shit to work to spend my time relaxing, not troubleshooting.

If I remember it correctly. secure boot isn't just something that can be enable easily. there are a few bios setting that need to be adjusted and your hardware must support it too like your gpu. I wonder who would actually run secure boot on their systems? I don't cause my gpu does not support it and probably won't anytime soon. My laptop on the other hand has secure boot, but it's done by the factory, so I just leave it as is.

[TrigrH]

1 hour ago, Ryan_Vickers said:

everyone has to be careful and not let their guard down when it comes to updates these days

thats exactly right, and its absolute bullshit and not fair that anyone has to do this.

 

I stopped updating windows 10 2 months ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/48qs4y/fix_update_kb3139907_and_cumulative_update/), when I was forced to switch my PSU off twice while my PC was booting into windows just to get into safe mode and unfuck the windows update loop. I have four ssds in raid 0... if my ssds didn't have power loss protection I could of risked a RAID failure. (like it happend to HardwareCanucks)

[HalGameGuru]

On the windows 10 front there is a way to add safe mode to the boot up options, the fact that should be how it comes out of the box not withstanding.

[DXMember]

 am I correct to assume that no other motherboard manufacturer was affected?

then who's fault is that? Is it really Microsoft's fault or is it Asus's fault for a false positive secure boot violation?

 

also I wouldn't say it's bricked - the screen obviously allows user to get into UEFI settings and switch to BIOS mode

[DXMember]

59 minutes ago, TrigrH said:

thats exactly right, and its absolute bullshit and not fair that anyone has to do this.

 

I stopped updating windows 10 2 months ago (https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/48qs4y/fix_update_kb3139907_and_cumulative_update/), when I was forced to switch my PSU off twice while my PC was booting into windows just to get into safe mode and unfuck the windows update loop. I have four ssds in raid 0... if my ssds didn't have power loss protection I could of risked a RAID failure. (like it happend to HardwareCanucks)

you're running a four SSD raid 0, who's fault is that?

hope you have a UPS in case of a power loss

[vanished]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

 am I correct to assume that no other motherboard manufacturer was affected?

then who's fault is that? Is it really Microsoft's fault or is it Asus's fault for a false positive secure boot violation?

eh... probably shared responsibility for this.  Microsoft needs to be more careful what they're pushing on people, and needs to test things properly, but hardware makers need to make things that don't just mess up for no reason

[vanished]

1 minute ago, DXMember said:

you're running a four SSD raid 0, who's fault is that?

hope you have a UPS in case of a power loss

This reminds me of a post I made in off-topic

On 5/4/2016 at 8:24 PM, Ryan_Vickers said:

Yeah, get on his level

[TrigrH]

Just now, DXMember said:

you're running a four SSD raid 0, who's fault is that?

hope you have a UPS in case of a power loss

me running a raid doesn't make it my fault that the update failed. durr

and yes I have a decent UPS and backups....

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, NumLock21 said:

If I remember it correctly. secure boot isn't just something that can be enable easily. there are a few bios setting that need to be adjusted and your hardware must support it too like your gpu. I wonder who would actually run secure boot on their systems? I don't cause my gpu does not support it and probably won't anytime soon. My laptop on the other hand has secure boot, but it's done by the factory, so I just leave it as is.

All Windows 8 or above certified motherboards must have it enabled by default. If you buy a motherboard today then it will most likely have secure boot enabled out of the box. Microsoft dictates it. 

[porina]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

All Windows 8 or above certified motherboards must have it enabled by default. If you buy a motherboard today then it will most likely have secure boot enabled out of the box. Microsoft dictates it. 

My understanding was slightly different, in that they required it for certified SYSTEMs. Want the Windows logo on the PC you're selling? You have to do that. Otherwise I don't believe there is any requirement to have or use the feature.

[Master Disaster]

This thread is so full of misinformation.

 

Windows 7 only has minimal support for UEFI, technically speaking it supports on old revision of UEFI which has since been deprecated.

 

SecureBoot is a UEFI module which again, Windows 7 only has partial support for.

 

Anybody running Windows 7 on a board certified for Windows 8 or newer SHOULD NOT be running it in UEFI boot mode, I'd go even further and say anyone running Windows 7 should not run UEFI boot mode fullstop. 

 

Its really not Microsoft's fault that users are running an unsupported hardware configuration, I mean are you seriously suggesting MS should be creating updates tailored to users running an OS which only supports a deprecated revision of UEFI?

 

Why do you think you don't ever see any UEFI boards that are Windows 7 certified? And would you start blaming Apple if a Mac OS update started killing off Hackintoshes?

[Master Disaster]

This thread is so full of misinformation.

 

Windows 7 only has minimal support for UEFI, technically speaking it supports on old revision of UEFI which has since been deprecated.

 

SecureBoot is a UEFI module which again, Windows 7 only has partial support for.

 

Anybody running Windows 7 on a board certified for Windows 8 or newer SHOULD NOT be running it in UEFI boot mode, I'd go even further and say anyone running Windows 7 should not run UEFI boot mode fullstop. 

 

Its really not Microsoft's fault that users are running an unsupported hardware configuration, I mean are you seriously suggesting MS should be creating updates tailored to users running an OS which only supports a deprecated revision of UEFI?

 

Why do you think you don't ever see any UEFI boards that are Windows 7 certified? And would you start blaming Apple if a Mac OS update started killing off Hackintoshes?

[LAwLz]

7 minutes ago, porina said:

My understanding was slightly different, in that they required it for certified SYSTEMs. Want the Windows logo on the PC you're selling? You have to do that. Otherwise I don't believe there is any requirement to have or use the feature.

Motherboards gets certified too. Here is an article about MSI getting their motherboards Windows 10 certified, and if you look in the bottom left corner of this box you will see a Windows 10 sticker:

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Its really not Microsoft's fault that users are running an unsupported hardware configuration, I mean are you seriously suggesting MS should be creating updates tailored to users running an OS which only supports a deprecated revision of UEFI?

Ehm yes. Microsoft should creates updates that do not soft brick their customers' computers. I thought that was common sense and to be expected.

 

14 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Why do you think you don't ever see any UEFI boards that are Windows 7 certified?

Prepare to have your mind blown. Here is a picture of my motherboard:

Spoiler

 

[AlTech]

36 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Motherboards gets certified too. Here is an article about MSI getting their motherboards Windows 10 certified, and if you look in the bottom left corner of this box you will see a Windows 10 sticker:

 

 

 

Ehm yes. Microsoft should creates updates that do not soft brick their customers' computers. I thought that was common sense and to be expected.

 

Prepare to have your mind blown. Here is a picture of my motherboard:

  Hide contents

 

Yeah but that's an old ass Mobo. Here's a more recent one. See Windows 8.1 ready.

 

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

Motherboards gets certified too. Here is an article about MSI getting their motherboards Windows 10 certified, and if you look in the bottom left corner of this box you will see a Windows 10 sticker:

 

 

 

Ehm yes. Microsoft should creates updates that do not soft brick their customers' computers. I thought that was common sense and to be expected.

 

Prepare to have your mind blown. Here is a picture of my motherboard:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

OK, just to clarify the Certification process...

 

Any device running embedded Windows must have Secureboot enabled, forced and not removable by the user.

Any OEM who wishes to have a Certified for Windows X sticker must have SB enabled, forced and not removable by the user.

OEMs are allowed to sell machines without SB enabled and forced if they wish, they just cannot add a Certified for Windows sticker to the machine.

Retail hardware sold directly to the user are never forced into anything, the user always has full control over what they want enabled or disabled on their systems.

The MoBo certification sticker just shows that the MoBo has been shown to be fully Windows compliment, as in the UEFI intergartion is complete, the board has compatible hardware and all drivers available for the board are WHQL certified.

 

Now onto the whole update thing. MS cannot be responsible for users running an unsupported hardware configuration, they just can't. It is possible to install Windows 7 onto a modern UEFI system in UEFI boot mode with a few workarounds (heck MSI boards will do the tweaks for you, they literally have an Install Windows 7 option in their UEFI implementation) however the fact its possible doesn't make it supported.

 

Your suggesting that MS should create an update tailored to a deprecated piece of software in order to support an unsupported configuration, just read that statement back a few times and you'll realise how idiotic it actually is.

 

Remember that Windows 7 was the first OS released (outside of the server world although technically Servers were using EFI which is different to UEFI but I won't bore you with that one) which had support for UEFI, at the time UEFI was still in its infancy and the standards were still being debated. The revision that Windows 7 has support for was the very first revision of UEFI ever released into the wild and while it was functional it wasn't anywhere near finished, heck at the time Secureboot as a UEFI module wasn't even a thing. Microsoft kickstarted everyone else into supporting UEFI and allowed hardware manufacturers to begin implementing it into home hardware with Windows 7 but just to reiterate the important thing, it wasn't actually finalised at the time.

 

By the time Windows 8 came along UEFI was finalised and was pretty well established amongst board manufacturers allowing MS to implement full and final UEFI support into Windows 8.

 

Now onto your motherboard, yeah you did just blow my mind because AFAIk there was never any UEFI boards certified for Windows 7, why would they bother certifying for a platform which wasn't finalised? Your board must have been released very late into Windows 7 lifespan at a time when UEFI was finalised and just before Windows 8 released with full support for it.