Apple's used iphones to push into Indian market backlash.

[Ridska]

Ridska here ,

If any of the members live in india or you like to see apple being the coporate bully giant that it is , This should concern you.

Quote

Apple Inc.’s latest attempt to crack the Indian smartphone market -- by selling used phones -- is meeting a wall of resistance.

 

Quote

“Make in India could turn into Dump in India,” said Sudhir Hasija, chairman of Karbonn Mobiles, who said it sells about 1.7 million phones a month.

 

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“All this will neatly tie into Apple’s strategy as the smartphone market peaks in the country in the next few years,” said Neil Shah, research director for devices and ecosystems at Counterpoint Research. “Apple will sell these at far lower price points and bring down entry barriers in India where new iPhones are out of reach of the masses.” Apple could target annual iPhone sales of 10 million by 2017, he added.

 

Quote

But rival smartphone makers will have none of it. One of the chief complaints is that allowing Apple to have its way would result in a deluge of used electronics imports, making mince-meat of Modi’s localization drive. Global players such as Foxconn Technology Group are considering or have begun taking baby steps towards local manufacture, starting with basic assembly. Any easing of curbs on imports could give them pause, Hasija argued.

Source : Bloomberg .

 

My opinion : The fist attempt wasnt bad enough but now apples having a crack at it agian ? Dammn it apple. And this will effect the indian environment if the genga river wasnt polluted bad enought.

 

Thanks and stay grooive.

[JPotze]

haha that is funny. You think the pollution of the river is apple's fault? your countries government is the fault of pollution. 

[Ridska]

Just now, JPotze said:

haha that is funny. You think the pollution of the river is apple's fault? your countries government is the fault of pollution. 

Its not apples fault. Im saying that apple is going to add fuel to the fire.

[JPotze]

one of apples standpoints for the world is to leave it better then they found it. Selling used phones is good for the nature because you lengthen the lifespan of the device therefore there is no need for making a new one. I find it a good strategie for creating a better world. And if the public is willing to buy it, why not. Your country should create a good recycle strategie so it won't end up in the nature.

[Castdeath97]

2 minutes ago, Ridska said:

Its not apples fault. Im saying that apple is going to add fuel to the fire.

I'm still not convinced, if selling used phones immediately equals dumping waste in the river there is something your government is clearly doing wrong with E waste management. 

[Rune]

Garbage is garbage whether used or new.

[patrick3027]

So Apple is solving the e-waste problem ... and people are angry? WUT?!?

 

Re-using electronics is GOOD, people! Why do people absolutely want to transform our planet into a giant wasteland?

 

http://www.wired.com/2014/12/product-design-and-recycling/

 

http://ifixit.org/blog/7460/phonebloks-visits-scrapyard/

 

 

 

 

 

[SaladFingers]

I see nothing wrong with anything posted in the OP, sorry.

[Ridska]

Just now, SaladFingers said:

I see nothing wrong with anything posted in the OP, sorry.

What do you mean by that ?

[SaladFingers]

1 minute ago, Ridska said:

What do you mean by that ?

I mean Apple selling used phones in India doesn't sound wrong in any kind of way.

[Ridska]

Just now, SaladFingers said:

I mean Apple selling used phones in India doesn't sound wrong in any kind of way.

Tell that to bloomberg.

[SaladFingers]

3 minutes ago, Ridska said:

Tell that to bloomberg.

Well, you created this thread and seem to agree with them, so I tell it here

 

For one, used devices make sense for people that can't afford new units. The industry is moving too fast - any phone from the past 3 years is pretty good and considerably cheaper. Instead of looking for such devices on the wild and trying to trust people, having Apple do it themselves is not a bad idea in my books. Where I live, the place is literally *filled* with used iPhones.

[ShadowCaptain]

yeah I am not sure of the issue..(well I am but wait)

-There is demand for the iPhone in India, but its entry price is too high for most

-Apple get old used devices recycled in mass quantities, which either have to be recycled or re-used since apple is a "green" company

So it makes perfect sense to sell the cheap used phones to India 

-Indian people get to buy cheap iPhones
-iPhones do not get throw into landfill etc (although apple do recycle ones sent to them)

Now I guess the bad part is, it could potentially damage any indian phone companies who make cheap phones , so I see how this is bad for Indian business, but equally for the people in India they get a better device that they desire

So yeah.... its just the business owners in India complaining another business is treading on their toes

[SaladFingers]

1 minute ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Now I guess the bad part is, it could potentially damage any indian phone companies who make cheap phones , so I see how this is bad for Indian business, but equally for the people in India they get a better device that they desire

So yeah.... its just the business owners in India complaining another business is treading on their toes

 

Well, that's fair game. It's called competition. Either compete, or go home. What did they expect? Having an artificial monopoly by restricting what the outsiders can sell or not? That's called dictatorship.

[ShadowCaptain]

1 minute ago, SaladFingers said:

 

Well, that's fair game. It's called competition. Either compete, or go home. What did they expect? Having an artificial monopoly by restricting what the outsiders can sell or not? That's called dictatorship.

yeah I mean I can understand their feelings, but at the end of the day "It's business"

That sounds harsh but thats just how the capitalism world works I am afraid

 

The ONLY reason these Indian companies even had a market was that the local population could not afford iPhones (etc) 

[SaladFingers]

Just now, ShadowCaptain said:

yeah I mean I can understand their feelings, but at the end of the day "It's business"

That sounds harsh but thats just how the capitalism world works I am afraid

Yeah I know what you mean, my comment wasn't directly aimed at you. Just saying though, I guess to the OP, this is how free markets work. The end consumer will choose what suits him best. If businesses find that they aren't selling as much then they need to re-evaluate their model. Maybe start selling cheaper, or start selling used devices too.

 

It's simply how the market works, nobody will give you a pat on the back because a competitor is outselling you. You better get off your a$$ and earn your revenue!

[ShadowCaptain]

Just now, SaladFingers said:

It's simply how the market works

Yup absolutely 

 

if the Indian phone companies want to remain competitive they need to make better devices at better costs

Honestly they were lucky Apple or Samsung etc were not selling phones specific to India at a lower cost (actually some companies do already)

 

It would be unfair to restrict another company from sales just because they are bigger,

 

[SaladFingers]

1 minute ago, ShadowCaptain said:

Yup absolutely 

 

if the Indian phone companies want to remain competitive they need to make better devices at better costs

Honestly they were lucky Apple or Samsung etc were not selling phones specific to India at a lower cost (actually some companies do already)

 

It would be unfair to restrict another company from sales just because they are bigger,

 

Exactly. There are some startups that done well. Made good devices, sold them cheap. Example, OnePlus. They stayed relevant, and sold well. Even with all the giants in play, they sold well. They didn't rely on closed doors and closed markets in their own country, no. They were ambitious and had a solid business model that directly competed with the big names, and it payed off.

[Mister Snow]

2 hours ago, SaladFingers said:

 

Well, that's fair game. It's called competition. Either compete, or go home. What did they expect? Having an artificial monopoly by restricting what the outsiders can sell or not? That's called dictatorship.

It's not that simple. If you are talking about one country, it's business, competition and all that, you are right but this is more complicated because if you allow some foreign company to take over the market, especially with a product that is not manufactured there and a product that can almost be given away if they wished to and still not loose money (which this is because Apple already made it's profit on these phones), you get two very bad things.

 

One is the divergence of monetary assets to some other countries pockets and the other one is killing all of your local companies that are in that business because they simply can't compete with selling new phones vs used ones, no matter how good their model is.

 

Loosing local companies means less profit for that country, higher unemployment and for what, so some people would have a nice phone.

[SaladFingers]

7 minutes ago, Mister Snow said:

It's not that simple. If you are talking about one country, it's business, competition and all that, you are right but this is more complicated because if you allow some foreign company to take over the market, especially with a product that is not manufactured there and a product that can almost be given away if they wished to and still not loose money (which this is because Apple already made it's profit on these phones), you get two very bad things.

 

One is the divergence of monetary assets to some other countries pockets and the other one is killing all of your local companies that are in that business because they simply can't compete with selling new phones vs used ones, no matter how good their model is.

 

Loosing local companies means less profit for that country, higher unemployment and for what, so some people would have a nice phone.

 

It's not "allowing some foreign company to take over the market". It's simply allowing them to sell their products. It's not their fault if others can't compete with that. Again, that's how the free market works, otherwise it's not "free" at all. If the country feels the need to regulate exotic products because their local industry can't compete, then it is biased and unfair. And the end consumer will have to endure having inferior options (be it because they are more expensive, or of lower quality, or both) because someone didn't allow stuff to be sold in his country.

 

Again, no government should do anything to "protect" their local industries that disrupts the flow of free economy, this is plain bad practice. What they should do, instead, is figure ways to make their local products competitive and cost-effective so people will actually choose them instead of being forced to buy them. Otherwise you have some form of dictatorship.

[Mister Snow]

2 minutes ago, SaladFingers said:

 

It's not "allowing some foreign company to take over the market". It's simply allowing them to sell their products. It's not their fault if others can't compete with that. Again, that's how the free market works, otherwise it's not "free" at all. If the country feels the need to regulate exotic products because their local industry can't compete, then it is biased and unfair. And the end consumer will have to endure having inferior options (be it because they are more expensive, or of lower quality, or both) because someone didn't allow stuff to be sold in his country.

 

Again, no government should do anything to "protect" their local industries that disrupts the flow of free economy, this is plain bad practice. What they should do, instead, is figure ways to make their local products competitive and cost-effective so people will actually choose them instead of being force to buy them. 

 

Not exactly, every country has it's right on regulations. I understand what you're saying but you can't have a corporate giant like Apple come in and sell their phones for 50$ because there isn't a phone maker that can compete with that hardware at that price point and make a profit. 

Let's say you have local farmers producing some fruit, they look at their expenses, calculate a selling price so they could live and grow their business and they start selling it at that price. Now some other farmers from another country that are much bigger and have less costs per unit of fruit come in and start importing large amounts of their product and selling it at the lower price driving down the price for local farmers to the point that they are making no profit and won't be able to produce their product next year.

In that case a government needs to interfere and limit import quantities so that their local farming industry could survive. You need your local food production to survive because you don't want to depend on other countries "fairness" to set the right price for your population. The same goes if local farmers are asking too much for their product. Government steps in and imports so it could drive the price down.

Now, regulating food and regulating phones is not the same thing nor it should be but some of the concepts apply.

 

Not every country needs to be so extremely capitalistic as the western world is and if India wants to strengthen their local industry they should have every right to do so.

Apple is still allowed to sell their product, just not the used pile of phones they were planing on dumping there which would be good for consumers there in the short term but worse in the long therm.

 

I am not against Apple selling their used phones, it's a great idea for reducing pollution and getting cheaper phones but then again, I also understand India's decision and reasons for it.

[SaladFingers]

2 minutes ago, Mister Snow said:

 

Not exactly, every country has it's right on regulations. I understand what you're saying but you can't have a corporate giant like Apple come in and sell their phones for 50$ because there isn't a phone maker that can compete with that hardware at that price point and make a profit. 

Let's say you have local farmers producing some fruit, they look at their expenses, calculate a selling price so they could live and grow their business and they start selling it at that price. Now some other farmers from another country that are much bigger and have less costs per unit of fruit come in and start importing large amounts of their product and selling it at the lower price driving down the price for local farmers to the point that they are making no profit and won't be able to produce their product next year.

In that case a government needs to interfere and limit import quantities so that their local farming industry could survive. You need your local food production to survive because you don't want to depend on other countries "fairness" to set the right price for your population. The same goes if local farmers are asking too much for their product. Government steps in and imports so it could drive the price down.

Now, regulating food and regulating phones is not the same thing nor it should be but some of the concepts apply.

 

Not every country needs to be so extremely capitalistic as the western world is and if India wants to strengthen their local industry they should have every right to do so.

Apple is still allowed to sell their product, just not the used pile of phones they were planing on dumping there which would be good for consumers there in the short term but worse in the long therm.

 

I am not against Apple selling their used phones, it's a great idea for reducing pollution and getting cheaper phones but then again, I also understand India's decision and reasons for it.

You definitely have a point. It's just that, in my opinion, they should strive for the infrastructure that allows them to build cost-effective and low-priced products that are able to compete and/or out-sell their outsider competition. In the end, it would only take someone making a product which is better than an older, used iPhone and price it accordingly. It shouldn't be a huge of a task. If someone can afford the better device he will pick it over the used iPhone any time of the day.

 

I just think artificially limiting the market could only benefit their local industry in the short-term, while actually investing into making their local industry more competitive (not just in India, but world-wide as well) would go a long way of keeping said industry alive and well. And people wouldn't feel "shoe-horned" into something just because politics.

 

Either way, I guess we will see how things unfold in practice. I'm in no way an economist, so take everything with a pinch of salt.

[Trixanity]

Every country makes sure to protect local companies before allowing foreign companies to compete (and potentially monopolize the market). Some just do it more than others. 

 

It's wise for India to do this. They have an extremely large population and a growing middle class. They need local jobs. If they trash their industry by importing used phones, they'll be fucked. 

[Mister Snow]

3 minutes ago, SaladFingers said:

You definitely have a point. It's just that, in my opinion, they should strive for the infrastructure that allows them to build cost-effective and low-priced products that are able to compete and/or out-sell their outsider competition. In the end, it would only take someone making a product which is better than an older, used iPhone and price it accordingly. It shouldn't be a huge of a task. If someone can afford the better device he will pick it over the used iPhone any time of the day.

 

I just think artificially limiting the market could only benefit their local industry in the short-term, while actually investing into making their local industry more competitive (not just in India, but world-wide as well) would go a long way of keeping said industry alive and well. And people wouldn't feel "shoe-horned" into something just because politics.

 

Either way, I guess we will see how things unfold in practice. I'm in no way an economist, so take everything with a pinch of salt.

 

You are absolutely correct, they should push their industry to be competitive and not just regulate it and that goes for everyone but at this point it's like protecting a kid until it's grown and can take on the world.

It's not good for consumers to be in some isolated artificial bubble but sometimes it's necessary for a while.

[SaladFingers]

2 minutes ago, Mister Snow said:

 

You are absolutely correct, they should push their industry to be competitive and not just regulate it and that goes for everyone but at this point it's like protecting a kid until it's grown and can take on the world.

It's not good for consumers to be in some isolated artificial bubble but sometimes it's necessary for a while.

Time will tell