Palmer Lucky: Rift will come to Mac if Apple "ever release a good computer"

[Stuff_]

8 minutes ago, Fgtfv567 said:

If Apple made their own VR headset to work on the desktops and laptops that aren't powerful enough to drive the rift, they HAVE to sacrifice something. I think the only way to build a VR headset that works on such poor GPUs would be to lower the resolution. And I've tried a Gear VR headset with an S7 in it. Believe me I can notice each pixel from one another. So for Apple to release a VR headset with an even lower resolution would make the screen look absolutely terrible. Not to mention the thermal throttling will make things even worse

Uh, I personally could see Apple develop something like the HoloLens. Something that is an AIO device, and something that connects and interacts with the Apple ecosystem. 

 

You're still assuming (like everyone else) that Apple really cares about PC gamers. That is hardly anything remotely close to what they are targeting. 

On that point, VR should not be targeting gamers, if you ask me. 

[Fgtfv567]

5 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

Uh, I personally could see Apple develop something like the HoloLens. Something that is an AIO device, and something that connects and interacts with the Apple ecosystem. 

An All in One Virtual Reality headset? As in the screen, CPU, and GPU all in one single headset with nothing else but a power cable connected to the wall? To play Vive and Rift video games? Unless I have a different idea than what you're thinking (I really hope so), this is an absolute abysmal idea. Sticking a whole gaming PC on your head would weigh a HELL of a lot on your head and neck. Not to mention the itty bitty package you have to cram in would no doubt thermal throttle, which could lead to low frame rates and would make you puke.

 

If Apple made a Gear VR style headset where you stick an iPhone into a headset and watch videos, that would be alright. But definitely not for high end gaming

[Fgtfv567]

21 hours ago, MarcoR said:

 

 

Apple doesn't skimp anywhere else, mostly. Battery life? Top of the class.

 

 

Have you seen the non-plus iPhones?

[Stuff_]

Just now, Fgtfv567 said:

An All in One Virtual Reality headset? As in the screen, CPU, and GPU all in one single headset with nothing else but a power cable connected to the wall? To play Vive and Rift video games? Unless I have a different idea than what you're thinking (I really hope so), this is an absolute abysmal idea. Sticking a whole gaming PC on your head would weigh a HELL of a lot on your head and neck. Not to mention the itty bitty package you have to cram in would no doubt thermal throttle, which could lead to low frame rates and would make you puke.

You're actively choosing strawman arguments and ignoring what I've actually said.

You ignored when I said 

6 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

Uh, I personally could see Apple develop something like the HoloLens. 

 

It's pretty clear what I'm implying.

 

1 minute ago, Fgtfv567 said:

Have you seen the non-plus iPhones?

Are you implying it's battery life is sub-par?

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, Mantayd17 said:

I don't really know why we keep discussing these topics: you'll never conciliate PC and Mac users.

I already had less than minimum interest in VR, now it's one hundred percent sure I won't get an Oculus Rift ever if I were to get a headset: "if Apple ever releases a good computer" is the most senseless sentence I've ever heard, made for click baiting.

 

You can buy a $6000 Mac Pro with a top-of-the-line AMD FirePro D700, and it still doesn't match our recommended specs,

 

What's the point in comparing the GTX 970 with the D700s? The former is a consumer GPU, the latter two workstation GPUs that are not even by far intended to be used for gaming as they aren't even built for them. That's like saying to somebody who has bought a pair of NVIDIA Quadros "hey dude, you can't run VR, your computer is bad!".

The D700s are like a pair of AMD W9000, which go for... 4000$ each last time I checked. If you've got the money and need for such a machine, that 6000$ Mac Pro isn't even overpriced.

 

You don't buy a top of the line iMac 5K or Mac Pro for VR, you just don't. Try to convince somebody who uses these machines that they're bad because they're not "VR-ready". A lol is all you'll ever get.

However your argument is wrong based on one thing. As all of these are because no one has yet to point this out. He was asked, "will oculous ever support Apple computers". He gave the correct answer and based his answer (which was accurate) on facts. So there should be no debate to begin with. He wasn't comparing the two GPU's, he wasn't comparing Mac to PC. He wasn't called them overpriced. He simply stated that they don't focus on premium GPU's that can run oculous rift, which needs them to work.

[Fgtfv567]

13 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

You're actively choosing strawman arguments and ignoring what I've actually said.

You ignored when I said 

 

It's pretty clear what I'm implying.

 

Are you implying it's battery life is sub-par?

Oh no, I'm not ignoring your evidence, I've read through this thread. Fair enough, people who buy Apple laptops are not playing video games. If you are, you know better than to buy a Mac for serious games. However, this thread was originally about Vive and Rift-style VR PC gaming. That's why I assumed you were talking about VR PC gaming when you mentioned an AIO headset. A Gear VR style headset with an iPhone in it could work out OK. If you want to watch 360 degree Youtube videos and pictures and touristy VR experiences and lightweight games. But definitely not VR PC gaming like the Rift.

 

Looking at the 6S' battery life, not bad, but the 6's looks pretty bad according to this:

http://bgr.com/2015/09/29/iphone-6s-iphone-6-plus-battery-life/

[TheElt]

2 hours ago, Stuff_ said:

The point of an Apple machine is NOT the components. It's moreso of the overall undeniably perfect build quality, accompanied with optimized hardware.

 

SO what you have is a very superb system with rarely any software related issues, but would obviously suffer from any HW related issues any other PC could. 

 

However, their customer service is beyond any other laptop manufacturer, and is generally zero headaches. 

 

What you need to do is open your mind a little, and look at it from the perspective of somebody that simply doesn't care about the price of the product. Rather, they care about how easy it is to be replaced or services (if need so) and the convenience of having an Apple store in every mall. There is some security that sits with the Apple brand when you purchase their product. 

 

One major thing I hope you learn from this:
MANY people in this world do NOT care about the price of something. If they believe it will outlast, and outperform (for their very needs) the alternatives, then they will rationally choose the one they want most.

In that case, plenty of people will chose an Apple computer because:

1) They do not play games

2) They have plenty of money to buy it. 

 

If the point isn't the components, why do they bother to list them? Or offer upgrades? Or sell anything more than an i3? Or go on about how much faster they are when the next models are released?

 

Perfect quality? Lots throttle or run very hot, and Staingate.

 

I think you mean optimised software, in terms of things like Adobe Final Cut. The hardware isn't optimised outside of cut down clocks in places. And software issues are rare because they stop supporting devices of a certain age, as they do with iPhones and the like with iOS.

 

Customer service I'll give you, but it's expensive for anything not under warranty and the Apple Care program is idiotically expensive.

 

I use a Mid 2010 iMac 21.5'' at college 4 days a week, in Final Cut it's a little bit slower than my Surface Pro 2's 4200U when rendering, but the software is awful to use compared to Premiere Pro. The screen is alright compared to what I've used before, the hard drive is abysmally slow, they run hot all the time (I've never used one where it's been relatively cold, apart from on a morning when they've been off overnight). And the magic mice, how the hell do people stand those things unless they made massive improvements. The scroll wheels are tempermental at best (If they work at all) and a single switch with touch for left and right click is just horrible since I like to rest my hand on the mouse.

[Stuff_]

13 minutes ago, Fgtfv567 said:

Oh no, I'm not ignoring your evidence, I've read through this thread. Fair enough, people who buy Apple laptops are not playing video games. If you are, you know better than to buy a Mac for serious games. However, this thread was originally about Vive and Rift-style VR PC gaming. That's why I assumed you were talking about VR PC gaming when you mentioned an AIO headset. A Gear VR style headset with an iPhone in it could work out OK. If you want to watch 360 degree Youtube videos and pictures and touristy VR experiences and lightweight games. But definitely not VR PC gaming like the Rift.

 

Looking at the 6S' battery life, not bad, but the 6's looks pretty bad according to this:

http://bgr.com/2015/09/29/iphone-6s-iphone-6-plus-battery-life/

Well the thread is essentially saying that Apple doesn't make a VR capable machine, as if this is some new revelation that we previously didn't know.

But the point is that Apple doesn't really care about that, AFAIK. A while VR set, something like the HoloLens would benefit Apple much more than having PC configurations that will allow gamers to use it on an OS X. 

 

And let's be honest. Apple cares about what can increase profits above everything else. 

[Stuff_]

7 minutes ago, TheElt said:

If the point isn't the components, why do they bother to list them? Or offer upgrades? Or sell anything more than an i3? Or go on about how much faster they are when the next models are released?

 

Perfect quality? Lots throttle or run very hot, and Staingate.

 

I think you mean optimised software, in terms of things like Adobe Final Cut. The hardware isn't optimised outside of cut down clocks in places. And software issues are rare because they stop supporting devices of a certain age, as they do with iPhones and the like with iOS.

 

Customer service I'll give you, but it's expensive for anything not under warranty and the Apple Care program is idiotically expensive.

 

It's obvious we are talking about GPU capability here above everything else. 

RAM, CPU type/speed, and storage are obviously important to know. The GPU isn't generally something Apple is worried about (or consumers).

 

The quality I am referring to does not involve any throttling whatsoever. Throttling is a non issue, generally speaking, on an Apple computer. 

What I mean by "quality" is the quality of the chassis and quality of the overall build. Not the "quality" of the components. 

 

It may be expensive if you're not covered under warranty (honestly, most people purchase the warranty) but you can sweet talk your way into a better deal. Apple is extremely flexible with that. Sometimes they will let you walk away with a new device, if you act dumb enough and act like the reason it broke wasn't entirely your fault. 

Other times they aren't so nice. YMMV. 

 

[TheElt]

2 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

It's obvious we are talking about GPU capability here above everything else. 

RAM, CPU type/speed, and storage are obviously important to know. The GPU isn't generally something Apple is worried about (or consumers).

 

The quality I am referring to does not involve any throttling whatsoever. Throttling is a non issue, generally speaking, on an Apple computer. 

What I mean by "quality" is the quality of the chassis and quality of the overall build. Not the "quality" of the components. 

 

It may be expensive if you're not covered under warranty (honestly, most people purchase the warranty) but you can sweet talk your way into a better deal. Apple is extremely flexible with that. Sometimes they will let you walk away with a new device, if you act dumb enough and act like the reason it broke wasn't entirely your fault. 

Other times they aren't so nice. YMMV. 

 

You said components generally, not specifically GPU. If they didn't care about the GPU, why would they bother putting any dGPU in any of their products? Why would they use the dual GPUs in the Mac Pro as a selling point? Why would they fit the 2015 5k iMac with an M395X and then use that as a selling point too? They clearly are worried about it else they wouldn't bother including them (Lower cost) or advertising them as selling points, and consumers do care else games wouldn't be released for Mac.

 

2014 5k iMac was well documented for throttling on both the CPU and GPU even if loaded independently, even worse with both parts under full load. Macbook throttles unless you dunk it in water. Mid 2015 i7 rMBP throttles under CPU only load. The chassis feels solid on the bulkier models, but on thinner ones it's awful. Plus since they're unibody they're possibly the most wasteful to produce. Quality components should be standard in something as expensive as what Apple offer, there's no excuse.

 

Apple Care is £200 for 3 years of Apple Care, for that price they better take it in regardless of what happens to it, and for that cost I'd expect accidental and water damage to be included without question. If you have to sweet talk your way to a better deal, that's not really zero headaches (But I'll admit you said generally, I don't have much experience with their in-store support). I could say the same about MS's support, my SP2 is ex-business which became a problem when I tried to send it for repairs (they ask for the model number on the website which it doesn't accept). I rang them up, told them what happened and they got the serial number sorted though it took a while, the guy apologised for the wait, told me buying through the phone was cheaper than online and offered a discount ontop of that. YMMV

[Belgarathian]

On 3/5/2016 at 7:28 AM, Master Disaster said:

I think in the context of Performance Vs Price you'd be very hard pushed to describe Apple Hardware as "GOOD".

 

You pay more to get less and the less you get not only performs worse due to Apples restrictive software policies but it also thermal throttles like a bitch and/or downclocks itself just because it feels like it (or more accurately because Apple decided to squeeze everything into a stupid case where form must always outweigh functionality).

 

If you gonna sell a product that costs more than all the other Gaming Laptops out there that performs worse than all of them then you'd better be ready for some stick from the industry.

 

But hey, it looks good, right?

 

Just an FYI here

 

15-inch MacBook Pro with Retina display

• 2.8GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 4.0GHz
• 16GB 1600MHz DDR3L SDRAM
• 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage
• Intel Iris Pro Graphics + AMD Radeon R9 M370X with 2GB GDDR5 memory
• Mac OS (Free)
• £2,419

14-inch Razer Blade Touch Screen

• Intel^® Core^™ i7–4720HQ Quad-Core processor with Hyper Threading 2.6GHZ / 3.6GHz
• 16GB dual-channel onboard memory (DDR3L-1600MHz)
• 512GB SSD (SATA M.2)
• NVIDIA^® GeForce^® GTX 970M (3GB GDDR5 VRAM)
• Windows 10 (Licensed)
• £2,449

So yeah, you get a one inch smaller TOUCH screen with a slightly slower CPU, same memory, same SSD but with a 3GB Geforce GTX 970M for £30 more. Plus then you get Windows with full Steam support, decent drivers and much more available software.

 

And your here defending them claiming they never claimed to make gaming laptops, nope they didn't but they certainly price their systems to match an equivalent gaming laptop. Oh yeah, and if that Apple can maintain a 4Ghz Boost Clock then I'm the richest man in the world.

I hope you realise that you're argument is invalid. Apple has always targeted workspace, causual, and education.... Where GPU is not overly important. 

 

You can buy a Ute and a sports car for the same price, but I wouldn't use a sports car to carry timber and concrete to the site. 

[Fgtfv567]

7 hours ago, Stuff_ said:

The GPU isn't generally something Apple is worried about (or consumers).

 

The quality I am referring to does not involve any throttling whatsoever. Throttling is a non issue, generally speaking, on an Apple computer. 

 

 

Well maybe not all of Apple's customers care about the GPU, but if you THINK about using a Mac for playing video games, the GPU is going to be one of the first things you think of. Might not happen a lot, but I'm sure at least one more person besides me has had this thought

 

WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS VIDEO FOR THEN?!

 

 

[patrickjp93]

On March 4, 2016 at 3:33 PM, Orangeator said:

Nope, good was the right word. There is no Apple product that has the performance to run VR. Yet they have $6,000 machines for sell but cannot even do what a 970 can do? There is a problem.

That $6000 machine has a 12-core Xeon and 2 workstation FirePros in XFire. The price matches the specs just fine.

[Stuff_]

12 minutes ago, Fgtfv567 said:

Well maybe not all of Apple's customers care about the GPU, but if you THINK about using a Mac for playing video games, the GPU is going to be one of the first things you think of. Might not happen a lot, but I'm sure at least one more person besides me has had this thought

 

WHAT THE HELL WAS THIS VIDEO FOR THEN?!

 

 

Sigh. I think I know one person that would think about gaming on a Macbook Pro. And generally the game is League of Legends. Just bootcamp Windows and it'll perform 100x better. 

Anyway, our arguments are useless. You clearly have a distaste Apple. I, however, understand the engineering and what the company actually targets, and I keep a neutral unbiased view on it. There's absolutely no reason to hate a product, unless that product is 100% a fraud of some sort.

 

Spoiler:

Spoiler

They don't target you.

 

[Fgtfv567]

3 minutes ago, Stuff_ said:

Sigh. I think I know one person that would think about gaming on a Macbook Pro. And generally the game is League of Legends. Just bootcamp Windows and it'll perform 100x better. 

Anyway, our arguments are useless. You clearly have a distaste Apple. I, however, understand the engineering and what the company actually targets, and I keep a neutral unbiased view on it. There's absolutely no reason to hate a product, unless that product is 100% a fraud of some sort.

 

Spoiler:

  Hide contents

They don't target you.

 

I'm trying (mostly, from a gamer's/enthusiast's perspective, trying to look at it from avg joe's perspective) to have a neutral opinion too the best I can, but there are a few things that I really really disagree with you. 

I get that Apple's trying to go for the "it just works" kind of way, the "no hassle, hold the PWR button, and it's off to the races" tactic, but you still need look at it to a price-performance ratio and a does it make sense for all types of consumers way

[ShadowCaptain]

I think apple should release a mac pro with dual titans just to prove him wrong

[Master Disaster]

8 hours ago, Belgarathian said:

I hope you realise that you're argument is invalid. Apple has always targeted workspace, causual, and education.... Where GPU is not overly important. 

 

You can buy a Ute and a sports car for the same price, but I wouldn't use a sports car to carry timber and concrete to the site. 

But what your buying from Apple is a sports car body attached to a ute chassis and drivechain and your paying them more than it would have cost to buy the sports car in the first place. You have the sports car looks but it performs much worse than the sports car would and cannot perform any of the task that the ute would have been able to perform.

 

You get the worst of both worlds.

[LukeTim]

21 hours ago, Sakkura said:

Coming from a guy making an undiplomatic and really stupid comment.

Well. No. I don't really have any interest in good relations with Palmer Lucky, so this is nothing to do with diplomacy. I think his product is a waste of time. There's nothing undiplomatic about me as a consumer simply expressing my opinion on a product.

Whether or not my comment was stupid. Well. That's just like... you're opinion, man.

 

19 hours ago, Orangeator said:

Sorry but who cares exactly? He told the 100% truth. Undiplomatic, he is the owner of a company, not an ambassador. Stop with this politically correct culture my God. Who cares, get on to him if he says something that isn't true, not when he tells the ugly truth.

It is undiplomatic because he, as the owner of a company, has an interest in good relations with Apple. His product's success relies upon not just consumers having an interest in using it but also consumers having computers capable of using it, Apple is a company that makes computers for a large number of consumers. He has a product and a business that has yet to really prove itself... he really isn't in a position to be throwing shade at companies who he may rely upon in future for support. That is why it is undiplomatic.

It's also got nothing to do with political correctness. Politically correct doesn't mean "complaint I disagree with." It actually has a proper definition, and it's generally to do with cultural sensitivity.

 

Lastly he did not tell the 100% truth. he gave an opinion. Not only a really dumb, really un-nuanced opinion, but an opinion that in his current position was a really fucking stupid opinion to give during an interview that was to be published.

[Sakkura]

6 minutes ago, LukeTim said:

Well. No. I don't really have any interest in good relations with Palmer Lucky, so this is nothing to do with diplomacy. I think his product is a waste of time. There's nothing undiplomatic about me as a consumer simply expressing my opinion on a product.

Whether or not my comment was stupid. Well. That's just like... you're opinion, man.

You were calling people stupid. That's undiplomatic, and it doesn't matter whether you are interested in good relations.

 

You are opinion? Yeah, you're definitely one to talk when it comes to stupidity...

[LukeTim]

1 minute ago, Sakkura said:

You were calling people stupid. That's undiplomatic, and it doesn't matter whether you are interested in good relations.

 

You are opinion? Yeah, you're definitely one to talk when it comes to stupidity...

I don't remember calling him stupid... I remember calling what he said stupid. Do you think that these are the same thing? Because they are not. Smart people can say stupid things... or even think stupid things... sometimes.

Oh, making fun of a typo. You must be so clever.

[Sakkura]

1 hour ago, LukeTim said:

I don't remember calling him stupid... I remember calling what he said stupid. Do you think that these are the same thing? Because they are not. Smart people can say stupid things... or even think stupid things... sometimes.

Oh, making fun of a typo. You must be so clever.

They are equivalent in this respect. And what he said wasn't stupid anyway, it was both correct and a good PR move.

 

I didn't make fun of a typo. It's a grammatical error.

[LukeTim]

7 minutes ago, Sakkura said:

They are equivalent in this respect. And what he said wasn't stupid anyway, it was both correct and a good PR move.

 

I didn't make fun of a typo. It's a grammatical error.

That is your opinion. My opinion differs.

I unconsciously mistyped. It was a typo. It did end up being a grammatical error, but if it was a grammatical error worth criticizing I would have consciously typed that word believing it to be correct usage. I didn't.

[Master Disaster]

1 hour ago, Sakkura said:

They are equivalent in this respect. And what he said wasn't stupid anyway, it was both correct and a good PR move.

 

I didn't make fun of a typo. It's a grammatical error.

We can all pick on bad English...

 

"I didn't make fun of a typo, It was a grammatical error."

 

See. It doesn't achieve anything productive though so what exactly is the point?

 

[MrDynamicMan]

On March 4, 2016 at 1:21 AM, Prysin said:

Use cases of apple products

iPod -> a memento to a long gone era made obsole by current products.

iPhone -> bragging rights

iPad -> coffee tray/a plate

Macbook -> beautifully designed doorstopper

Macbook Pro -> advanced beautifully designed doorstopper

iMac -> Bragging rights of having the most expensive facebook machine there is

 

Agree with most of those, but for the MBP. 

[Sakkura]

2 hours ago, LukeTim said:

That is your opinion. My opinion differs.

And based on just your opinion, you called his expression of his honest and reasoned opinion stupid. Which is, in itself, a pretty stupid thing to do. Not to mention the hypocrisy of calling him undiplomatic when you were obviously being undiplomatic in the exact same post.