Are Mac computers really that bad?

[Auxafly]

i like both mac and windows but i prefer windows for gaming and mac for general use. the os on mac is a lot more cleaner and easier to use IMO

[IBroTech]

My two biggest issues with pretty much every macintosh is the often mentioned price to performance ratios as well as the lack of continual support for their earlier versions of OSX. My last experience with mac was when OSX el capitan first came out. Just build a pc and don't download a mountain of porn. You will save yourself alot of time, stress and hair.

 

Edit: also money, you'll save alot of that.

[79wjd]

1 hour ago, IBroTech said:

My two biggest issues with pretty much every macintosh is the often mentioned price to performance ratios as well as the lack of continual support for their earlier versions of OSX. My last experience with mac was when OSX el capitan first came out. Just build a pc and don't download a mountain of porn. You will save yourself alot of time, stress and hair.

 

Edit: also money, you'll save alot of that.

You're comparing prebuilts to a custom build, of course there is going to be a massive price and performance delta.... Compare them to what they actually should be compared against -- other prebuilts, and they end up being pretty price competitive (within 10%~ most of the time). 

 

And unlike Windows, you get a free upgrade to the latest OS whenever you want and even the new OS runs well on old hardware (Yosemite excluded) and is supported on old hardware (El Capitan will run fine on everything released in 2009 onward, and any of the MBP from 2007 onward). So the only thing you don't get is legacy support for older OS's, but most software that runs on older versions of OS X will also run on newer versions, and older versions are still supported for about five years (and if you still need to run it after that, then you take the security hit and run it, tons of people are still running XP for that very reason). 

 

Also, in no way is buying, building, and setting up your own computer easier and less stressful than buying a fully operational (and WORKING) system that just requires very basic setup (i.e. account name/password). 

[MEC-777]

Some of you might find this interesting: 

 

 

 

[79wjd]

I like how he used the price of a 500GB flash drive when talking about how overpriced Apple's 512GB PCIE SSD upgrade. (Not that he's wrong, it is double what it reasonably should be, but that's something else.) Apple's upgrade costs are and always have been more expensive than they should be, but I really like how that video (at least in the first 3 minutes) doesn't even mention anything about the base config/prices and how it focuses solely on comparing it to custom builds rather than other prebuilt manufacturers. I'm glad I unsubbed from TS over a year ago. @MEC-777

[Trav_X]

19 hours ago, MEC-777 said:

Some of you might find this interesting: 

 

 

 

10/10 found interesting, would interest again

[ALwin]

Here is my grouping of Mac/Apple haters:

• People who are tech savvy and know how to tinker with hardware software to make sure their custom built ad-hoc systems are running.  But unfortunately some of them don't realize that not everyone is tech savvy or wants to be savvy with tech when there are other things to worry about.  This group is a small minority.
• Now for the other major groups:
  • The poor plebs who can't afford an Apple product.
  • The stupid fanatical Apple/Mac hater who make religious extremists look like saints.  The kind of people who make the Nazi Youth seem like nice boyscouts.

OSX is just as capable of doing a lot of things as Windows and Linux.  Each OS has their own pros and cons, what they can do and cannot do.  Many members on this forum seem to be gamers... so of course OSX would not be their first choice as an operating system.

 

But as someone who has nearly 20 years working and using Windows (ranging from version 3.x to now Windows 10), when I made the switch to OSX a few years ago, I never looked back.  80% of my time is working away from my home, so I need a portable computer (i.e. laptops) and for several years I went from one Windows based laptop to another.  Each one of them weigh a few kilos and were as thick as a small dictionary.  Then when the MacBook Airs and retina MacBook Pros came along, I first bought and Air and used it for a couple of years before giving it away and got a MacBook Pro.

 

I can say this with 99% certainty: for the work I need to do, the software I need to run on my machines, there is almost ZERO Windows laptop that performs just as well as the fully spec'd out rMBP I am using now.  The nearest Windows based laptop I would buy would be either a Dell Precision or HP Elitebook workstation with nVidia Quadro GPUs that would cost more than my MacBook Pro.  And my rMBP still performs almost as well as the day I bought it four years ago.  With Windows based laptops, my past experience is to buy a new one every 2-3 years.

 

I'm a tech savvy person, but after all the years dealing with buggy Windows updates, software installation/uninstallation and registry issues on Windows... OSX has never given me a headache.  I'm tired of having non-essential distractions.

[MEC-777]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Spoiler

 

Here is my grouping of Mac/Apple haters:

• People who are tech savvy and know how to tinker with hardware software to make sure their custom built ad-hoc systems are running.  But unfortunately some of them don't realize that not everyone is tech savvy or wants to be savvy with tech when there are other things to worry about.  This group is a small minority.
• Now for the other major groups:
  • The poor plebs who can't afford an Apple product.
  • The stupid fanatical Apple/Mac hater who make religious extremists look like saints.  The kind of people who make the Nazi Youth seem like nice boyscouts.

OSX is just as capable of doing a lot of things as Windows and Linux.  Each OS has their own pros and cons, what they can do and cannot do.  Many members on this forum seem to be gamers... so of course OSX would not be their first choice as an operating system.

 

But as someone who has nearly 20 years working and using Windows (ranging from version 3.x to now Windows 10), when I made the switch to OSX a few years ago, I never looked back.  80% of my time is working away from my home, so I need a portable computer (i.e. laptops) and for several years I went from one Windows based laptop to another.  Each one of them weigh a few kilos and were as thick as a small dictionary.  Then when the MacBook Airs and retina MacBook Pros came along, I first bought and Air and used it for a couple of years before giving it away and got a MacBook Pro.

 

I can say this with 99% certainty: for the work I need to do, the software I need to run on my machines, there is almost ZERO Windows laptop that performs just as well as the fully spec'd out rMBP I am using now.  The nearest Windows based laptop I would buy would be either a Dell Precision or HP Elitebook workstation with nVidia Quadro GPUs that would cost more than my MacBook Pro.  And my rMBP still performs almost as well as the day I bought it four years ago.  With Windows based laptops, my past experience is to buy a new one every 2-3 years.

 

I'm a tech savvy person, but after all the years dealing with buggy Windows updates, software installation/uninstallation and registry issues on Windows... OSX has never given me a headache.  I'm tired of having non-essential distractions.

 

 

What about those who are not so tech savvy, buy a mac thinking "it's the best, 'because apple' and because it's expensive". But they end up getting mediocre hardware for their money in a minimalist aluminum shell when all they needed was something basic - or the fact they could have gotten better hardware for their money in a pre/custom-built PC. What are your thoughts on that?

 

My opinion stands somewhat with that of the gents from Tek Syndicate. I don't hate the hardware or the software, but I'm not fond of "Apple" as a company. 

[ALwin]

17 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

but I'm not fond of "Apple" as a company

That's no different from saying "I don't like Apple because Apple."

 

As for people who buy something because it's from a certain brand or is a certain price... well if they are too lazy to figure out what they actually need then that's their problem.  However, quite often OSX is a lot more user friendly than Windows or even Linux.  Installing a piece of software on OSX can be just as easy as dragging and dropping the software into the "Applications" folder.  Uninstalling can be as simple as moving the software into the trash bin.  No matter what program or software you run on OSX, the location of the menu system always remain consistently in the same place.  In Windows I've had software menus that were in the top left or hidden behind some icon somewhere.

 

Aside from Linux and other open source OS's, OSX's cost ranges from very cheap to free.  I paid over $500 for my license of Windows 7 Pro.

 

Money/price is not everything.  Sometimes it's worth spending a bit extra on hardware and software that will be more reliable and cause less headaches.  One of the reasons I am sticking to using an iPhone instead of a Crapdroid.

 

There are a lot of people in the world who don't want to spend their time shopping for individual pieces of hardware and then spend more time putting it altogether and hoping it works.  They want something off the shelf that works the moment they arrive home and take it out of the box.

 

17 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

gotten better hardware for their money in a pre/custom-built PC

There are many people in the world who don't give fucks about this at all, because money is not their main concern.  Convenience, having something that works and saves their time is.

 

Just as Macs are not for everyone, neither are custom built PCs.

[Dabombinable]

4 minutes ago, ALwin said:

That's no different from saying "I don't like Apple because Apple."

 

As for people who buy something because it's from a certain brand or is a certain price... well if they are too lazy to figure out what they actually need then that's their problem.  However, quite often OSX is a lot more user friendly than Windows or even Linux.  Installing a piece of software on OSX can be just as easy as dragging and dropping the software into the "Applications" folder.  Uninstalling can be as simple as moving the software into the trash bin.  No matter what program or software you run on OSX, the location of the menu system always remain consistently in the same place.  In Windows I've had software menus that were in the top left or hidden behind some icon somewhere.

 

Aside from Linux and other open source OS's, OSX's cost ranges from very cheap to free.  I paid over $500 for my license of Windows 7 Pro.

 

Money/price is not everything.  Sometimes it's worth spending a bit extra on hardware and software that will be more reliable and cause less headaches.  One of the reasons I am sticking to using an iPhone instead of a Crapdroid.

 

There are a lot of people in the world who don't want to spend their time shopping for individual pieces of hardware and then spend more time putting it altogether and hoping it works.  They want something off the shelf that works the moment they arrive home and take it out of the box.

 

There are many people in the world who don't give fucks about this at all, because money is not their main concern.  Convenience, having something that works and saves their time is.

 

Just as Macs are not for everyone, neither are custom built PCs.

Look, you can dislike Apple because its Apple, the company that has suicide nets outside its factory+ abysmal working conditions in side them. The company that overcharges and therefore makes an insane profit each year. You can however also like their products at the same time-out standing build quality (except the iPhone 5C) despite the out-of date specs can actually be a very good reason to choose one of their devices despite the cost.

[ALwin]

4 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

snip

Except I don't think those factories are actually owned by Apple.  They are contracted by Apple, but they aren't managed or owned by Apple.  FYI, Foxconn also has contracts with Sony to manufacture the Playstation, contracts with Microsoft to manufacture XBox.  Foxconn also manufactures Blackberries, Nokia products, Nintendo products.  Why not hate Microsoft, Sony, Nokia, Nintendo, etc. too?

 

Where do you buy your clothes?  Ever visited the garment factories and sweat shops where your clothes are created?

[MEC-777]

4 minutes ago, ALwin said:

That's no different from saying "I don't like Apple because Apple."

 

As for people who buy something because it's from a certain brand or is a certain price... well if they are too lazy to figure out what they actually need then that's their problem.  However, quite often OSX is a lot more user friendly than Windows or even Linux.  Installing a piece of software on OSX can be just as easy as dragging and dropping the software into the "Applications" folder.  Uninstalling can be as simple as moving the software into the trash bin.  No matter what program or software you run on OSX, the location of the menu system always remain consistently in the same place.  In Windows I've had software menus that were in the top left or hidden behind some icon somewhere.

 

Aside from Linux and other open source OS's, OSX's cost ranges from very cheap to free.  I paid over $500 for my license of Windows 7 Pro.

 

Yes, it is different. I didn't say I don't like Apply because Apple. I said I don't like Apple as a company. As in; I don't like some of their business practices/decisions etc. If you've watched the Tek's video I posted, you'd know they too share that opinion and give reasons for it. That is not the same as saying "because Apple". 

 

 

In reference to the quote below: You're assuming Apple products are more reliable, which is not always the case. For example, my Nexus 5 has been rock solid, never failed me or given me trouble once. You're reference to "Crapdoid" tells me you're somewhat bias towards Apple products and that your opinions are not entirely based in fact. 

 

Again, a PC can work just as reliably as a Mac. Assuming otherwise is simply incorrect. Also note I said "pre/custom-built" meaning pre-built or custom built. 

 

Someone's perception of "needs" can be skewed by marketing. I know for certain there are people out there who have spent perhaps twice what they needed to spent to get something they didn't need, because "brand marketing". I know this happens all the time with all kinds of products, but Apple is especially invested in brand marketing. 

9 minutes ago, ALwin said:

Money/price is not everything.  Sometimes it's worth spending a bit extra on hardware and software that will be more reliable and cause less headaches.  One of the reasons I am sticking to using an iPhone instead of a Crapdroid.

 

There are a lot of people in the world who don't want to spend their time shopping for individual pieces of hardware and then spend more time putting it altogether and hoping it works.  They want something off the shelf that works the moment they arrive home and take it out of the box.

 

There are many people in the world who don't give fucks about this at all, because money is not their main concern.  Convenience, having something that works and saves their time is.

 

Just as Macs are not for everyone, neither are custom built PCs.

 

 

[Trav_X]

35 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

Look, you can dislike Apple because its Apple, the company that has suicide nets outside its factory+ abysmal working conditions in side them. The company that overcharges and therefore makes an insane profit each year. You can however also like their products at the same time-out standing build quality (except the iPhone 5C) despite the out-of date specs can actually be a very good reason to choose one of their devices despite the cost.

You say they overcharge, but still make insane profits. Obviously, there are people who like their computers, and don't care for the hassle of creating a custom build or buying a prebuilt Windows. There is a huge consumer market of people who just want reliable computers to do their daily tasks and work on. You can't fault Apple for making money  its business, and they obviously are doing SOMETHING well, and I don't think you should hate them for being a profitable business.

[Trav_X]

24 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

Yes, it is different. I didn't say I don't like Apply because Apple. I said I don't like Apple as a company. As in; I don't like some of their business practices/decisions etc. If you've watched the Tek's video I posted, you'd know they too share that opinion and give reasons for it. That is not the same as saying "because Apple". 

 

 

In reference to the quote below: You're assuming Apple products are more reliable, which is not always the case. For example, my Nexus 5 has been rock solid, never failed me or given me trouble once. You're reference to "Crapdoid" tells me you're somewhat bias towards Apple products and that your opinions are not entirely based in fact. 

 

Again, a PC can work just as reliably as a Mac. Assuming otherwise is simply incorrect. Also note I said "pre/custom-built" meaning pre-built or custom built. 

 

Someone's perception of "needs" can be skewed by marketing. I know for certain there are people out there who have spent perhaps twice what they needed to spent to get something they didn't need, because "brand marketing". I know this happens all the time with all kinds of products, but Apple is especially invested in brand marketing. 

 

 

You assume too much. When someone says that something is reliable, they are not inferring that everything else isn't. Apple products are reliable, but that doesn't mean that every other product sucks in terms of reliability.

 

As well, everyone can choose for themselves. What you stated was basically the point of marketing. People will buy products that are 'new, look cool, or have stunning new features!' Marketing is the entire science of getting people to buy your products whether they necessarily "need" it or not. Apple has great marketing. For someone who isn't extremely technical and savvy, Apple's website even makes a true custom built enthusiast like me start to like some of apple's products more. Apple is good at marketing, and overall, an extremely profitable business because of it.

[ALwin]

35 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

brand marketing

So you're faulting a business because they are successful at what they need to do to succeed in a consumer driven economy?  Have you ever looked at the cosmetics or fashion industry?

 

8 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

Apple's website

Its website is one of the case studies I had during my IT courses and is one of the examples used in the business of web design and user experience.

 

Here's an example:

I visit the Apple website to compare the specs and prices of a MacBook or Mac Pro I am thinking of buying.  Everything is clearly presented, even the prices of the custom configurations.

 

I go to the Dell or HP website... I have to click through several pages just to find the info I want.

 

8 minutes ago, Trav_X said:

Apple is good at marketing, and overall, an extremely profitable business because of it.

Definitely no fault with Apple for being successful here or having the will to hire successful talent for this.  Companies exist to make a profit, if your business is not profiting because of bad marketing don't blame the competitor for having a good one.

[Trav_X]

5 minutes ago, ALwin said:

Its website is one of the case studies I had during my IT courses and is one of the examples used in the business of web design and user friendliness.

 

Even i enjoy going on Apple's site. It's an extremely effective website, showing features, prices, animations, and a slick minimalistic look. I'm not surprised you studied it, it's seem like a great example  

[ALwin]

1 minute ago, Trav_X said:

Even i enjoy going on Apple's site. It's an extremely effective website, showing features, prices, animations, and a slick minimalistic look. I'm not surprised you studied it, it's seem like a great example  

Just repeating something I added to my previous comment:

 

I visit the Apple website to compare the specs and prices of a MacBook or Mac Pro or any product I am thinking of buying.  Everything is clearly presented, even the prices of the custom configurations.

 

I go to the Dell or HP website... I have to click through several pages just to find the info I want.

[online_olympian]

I started building pc's in the 90s when it was nearly impossible to do anything but upgrade ram on a mac, and holy sh!t it was expensive. After the first gen ipod completely stole all my 56k downloaded music and turned it into a file that i could not use, I decided never again will I allow any mac product into my life or my usb port. 

[ALwin]

43 minutes ago, MEC-777 said:

You're reference to "Crapdoid" tells me you're somewhat bias towards Apple products and that your opinions are not entirely based in fact.

Do you really want to know why I prefer iPhone over Android or any other mobile system on the market?

 

Because iOS's user experience is fantastic.  It has nothing to do with hardware or branding.  When I broke my old Sony Errcsson phone years ago and decided I might want a "smart" phone, I went to the store and tried out every phone on demo there.  To this day, I still don't consider Android as providing the same level of user experience as iOS and I have helped out several of my friends and colleagues figure out how to do something on their Galaxy something devices.

 

On 3/13/2016 at 5:54 PM, djdwosk97 said:

snip

Apple has even made their iWORK suite completely free.  Right off the bat, open a new MacBook, connect the power, turn it on, set up the user account and you can straight away start working on it.

 

With a custom built PC, I wonder how many people ever take into account the cost of the software?  With pre-built PCs, the time and effort require to remove the bloatware that is included?

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Do you really want to know why I prefer iPhone over Android or any other mobile system on the market?

 

Because iOS's user experience is fantastic.  It has nothing to do with hardware or branding.  When I broke my old Sony Errcsson phone years ago and decided I might want a "smart" phone, I went to the store and tried out every phone on demo there.  To this day, I still don't consider Android as providing the same level of user experience as iOS and I have helped out several of my friends and colleagues figure out how to do something on their Galaxy something devices.

Are you serious? When you say experience... Do you mean ease of use? User experience and ease of use are two different things. Android offers far more then Apple does in almost every respect. My LG G4 I own will kick an iPhones ass in anything. From picture quality to the screen, from the amount of apps available to the customization of the launcher. Apple cannot compete with android. Not even a comparison. Samsung burns apple in build quality as well with the S7. Apple has nothing but a brand name. 

 

Edit: Forgot the mention my LG G4's ability to have interchangeable batteries and expandable storage up to 2 TB's once an micro sd card is create with that amount of storage. 

[ALwin]

6 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

snip

No, this is what I mean by user experience.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience

 

6 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

amount of apps available to the customization of the launcher

Not everyone needs this shit, more doesn't mean better. Neither does the ability to customize something.  I just need my phone to be reliable and work when I need it.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

No, this is what I mean by user experience.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_experience

So you are saying your whole argument about how something is better then another is based on opinion and nothing to do with facts? Everything I listed was facts about why Android is better then Apple and you give me a colorful chart that shows your reason you like apple, being that a two year old can use it. So this all comes down to the person then in your argument. Someone with technical knowledge would always choose Android user interface over Apples due to the unlimited customization. Everyone who knows nothing about what they are buying will buy an iPhone is your point I am assuming? 

[ALwin]

3 minutes ago, Orangeator said:

Someone with technical knowledge would always choose Android user interface over Apples due to the unlimited customization

What a cute statement.  Too bad it's a wild claim at best.

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

What a cute statement.

Thank you.  

[Orangeator]

1 hour ago, ALwin said:

Too bad it's a wild claim at best.

Any person who has the amount of knowledge I have about the topic... Would choose Android over Apple any time. When I say my knowledge I do not mean opinions or biases, just knows as much as I do about what you can do and how to do it.