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I wonder if Linus will accept the challenge...

tcolecruz
By tcolecruz
in General Discussion
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Exactly what I've been saying :-/ It's like comparing a cheapo windowls laptop with movie maker to fcpx on a macbook pro. You cant change two things and make a conclusion, you have to change one.

 

According to you, this isn't a valid question to ask:

 

Which ultrabook can edit 4k video faster: A macbook with FCPX or an Asus with Adobe Premiere? 

 

I'm starting to sound like a broken record... people not understanding how to properly couch results. Jonathan isn't doing anything wrong, you are all reading into this.

I have a 2019 macbook pro with 64gb of ram and my gaming pc has been in the closet since 2018

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According to you, this isn't a valid question to ask:

 

Which ultrabook can edit 4k video faster: A macbook with FCPX or an Asus with Adobe Premiere? 

 

I'm starting to sound like a broken record... people not understanding how to properly couch results. Jonathan isn't doing anything wrong, you are all reading into this.

What bothered me is that he compared his render times, which doesn't directly reflect the notebook he's using but also the software. Your question is valid, but it's not exactly what Jon is asking

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 | Motherboard: Asus Z97-A/USB 3.1 | Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws X Series 8GB | Storage: A-Data Premier Pro SP900 128GB | GPU: Sapphire Radeon R9 290 4GB Tri-X OC Video Card | Case: Corsair SPEC-01 RED | Power Supply: EVGA 600B | Networking Card: TP-Link TL-WDN4800 | Monitor: Asus VG248QE 144Hz 24.0" Monitor | Keyboard: Razer BlackWidow Tournament Edition (Cherry MX Blue) | Mouse: Logitech G100s | Quote me and say "Dope Flamingo" if you actually read this. 

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Yeah Final Cut Pro X is way more optimized. Uses 2-4gb when in use while adobe uses 6-12gb and more so. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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So dude uses program to render in background so that at the end it "looks" like he is faster, even though the macbook is unusable for how long while it renders?

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So dude uses program to render in background so that at the end it "looks" like he is faster, even though the macbook is unusable for how long while it renders?

he did turn off "render in background" in the end and it still was better

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he did turn off "render in background" in the end and it still was better

Ahh yes, but he didn't scrub after render in background... AKA his performance in scrubbing (which wasn't actually apples to apples as he only moved forward in small increments as stated earlier), was specifically mentioned in that "after it's done rendering look at how amazing playback is!"

 

Like really?

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What bothered me is that he compared his render times, which doesn't directly reflect the notebook he's using but also the software. Your question is valid, but it's not exactly what Jon is asking

 

That is exactly what he is doing. Also,  I implore you to think about your responses instead of the inflammatory "fuck you" comments. 

I have a 2019 macbook pro with 64gb of ram and my gaming pc has been in the closet since 2018

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Of course Apple puts a lot of work into their software. Just look at what they've done with iOS.

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Of course Apple puts a lot of work into their software. Just look at what they've done with iOS.

i wonder if final cut also slows down renders times on purpose in addition to older hardware with software updates too ;) 

 

 

 

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Of course Apple puts a lot of work into their software. Just look at what they've done with iOS.

I really hope that is /s...

 

Anyways, if people like it fine... Yay for them.

 

 

For me personally, I spent 6 months using OSX for work and I came out of it hating 10x more than I did before, because literally every qualm I had had about using it on and off for years prior (randomly) was validated (along with finding so many more). Jesus fuck is it awful for clean simple workflows (not even on a program level, because programs themselves work fine if not great, but everything thing else about the OS grinds my gears).

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I really hope that is /s...

I'm mainly referring to the performance they're able to achieve in many applications versus Android devices running the same application.

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Apple's ability to optimize software is an absolute marvel to the world it seems.

if you have to insist you think for yourself, i'm not going to believe you.

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I'm mainly referring to the performance they're able to achieve in many applications versus Android devices running the same application.

Yes until they release the newest OS variant and brick your device... 

 

Sigh, that wasn't really fair, but application performance is not Apple's achievement in any fashion other than they are popular and spend way more money (and hence developers spend more time and money) than Android users...

 

 

OT: I never understood how people would prefer forced updates with those updates having a significant probability of rendering your device useless over rarely getting the updates in the first place (and the updates rarely mattering). But that's just me.

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I think Linus can actually win this challenge by using sony Vegas pro because it uses the intel quick sync.

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Sadly, this wouldent work. The X10QRH only supports the E5 Xeon family, not the E7, and processors up to 135W TPD, the E7-8890 has a TPD of 165W. He would have to use the E5-4669v3s which have 18 cores and a 135W TPD, 

what board does support the E7s ?

this board should do the job:

https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/Xeon/C600/X10QBL-CT.cfm

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riiiiiiiiiight that's not a software issue at all? because it's not like the new macbook is a throttled piece of sit that shouldn't be in the same room as the MBP?

not sure a mac is smart enough to sit

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Some thoughts on the videos:

 

Are they using the same formats? My understanding is that Linus' footage could not be decoded in hardware before they transcoded it. It seems like TLD's could.

 

Another difference I noticed was that Linus was scrubbing backwards in his video while TLD was always going forward, and in very short increments. This makes a huge difference because for Linus the player had to render a new key frame and then seek from there, while TLD's video player could just keep on using the same key frame. You can see pretty big lag spike when he skips forwards and it has to seek a new key frame. The playback looked far smoother though, which is why I think it was hardware accelerated (and Linus' wasn't in the beginning).

 

Oh, and both of them are using hardware accelerated export. Might be fine for YouTube videos, but I would not want to use those files for archival purposes.

 

 

The entire video might as well be QuickSync vs NVENC, and it seems like Intel wins hands down... But I am sure the Apple fanboys will say it's because OS X was created by wizards and their Apple computers runs on magic.

Switch to CPU encoding and both laptops would catch fire before the export was done...

 

Pretty much my thoughts as well. It would be interesting to see how the Macbook does with Linus's same footage with similar/closer testing. It would be much more scientific. Its still impressive how well optimized FCPX is (and PC fanboys need to knowledge it), but this doesn't mean Apple products run on pixie dust as Apple fanboys would say. Both sides have their points (and idiocies)

 

Either way its a win for Intel.

 

Although Jon's video seems somewhat biased.

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Pretty much my thoughts as well. It would be interesting to see how the Macbook does with Linus's same footage with similar/closer testing. It would be much more scientific. Its still impressive how well optimized FCPX is (and PC fanboys need to knowledge it), but this doesn't mean Apple products run on pixie dust as Apple fanboys would say. Both sides have their points (and idiocies)

 

Either way its a win for Intel.

 

Although Jon's video seems somewhat biased.

 

As I've said (not to you, just in general and to those saying it was unfair) the point of the video was not to do a scientific "1 variable" comparison between these two setups, but to see if an ultrabook-style laptop could edit 4k footage, and it has been shown twice now (in different ways) that the answer is "yes".  Despite that, I agree with you here; I would like to see, purely for curiosities sake, a more controlled comparison: the macbook running the software shown, and the asus laptop running adobe software, but with everything else standardized (same input file, same storage medium (external HDD or something)), etc. etc. that way we get a true comparison of one setup vs the other.  I don't think we need to force them to use the same software since we already know the macbook has worse hardware; that's no secret.

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There is plenty of editing software for windows that will run better than premiere on slow hardware... and that offers enough features for most people. Either they use the same program, or any comparison is unfair. He can say it's possible to edit on a macbook, what he can't say is that it's comparable or better than what linux tested.

 

 

Because any test needs to use the same conditions to make any sense... and they weren't testing the software, they were testing the hardware.

No they weren't, they were testing the time it took to encode a 4K video.

He didn't say Linuses workflow was wrong, or Premiere is bad, or Windows is bad or even the hardware was bad. He said my Macbook can do it faster than your Laptop.

It's like if I say my Ferrari is faster than your Audi. Do you then start saying "yeah but your Ferrari has a different engine, tyres, drivechain, suspension and body to my Audi?"

That's exactly the point he was making, it's not the method that matters, it's the result.

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Oh lol I didn't know you could video edit in blender. Thought that it was just for 3d Modeling xD

 

blender is actually extremely powerful for a lot of things, it's a shame it's not used in the industry.

 

 

No they weren't, they were testing the time it took to encode a 4K video.

 

He didn't say Linuses workflow was wrong, or Premiere is bad, or Windows is bad or even the hardware was bad. He said my Macbook can do it faster than your Laptop.

 

It's like if I say my Ferrari is faster than your Audi. Do you then start saying "yeah but your Ferrari has a different engine, tyres, drivechain, suspension and body to my Audi?"

 

That's exactly the point he was making, it's not the method that matters, it's the result.

 

The problem is that IT is different than what he did with his macbook. What he did is compare a ferrari to a vw golf, and tested the golf on a track that is a tenth of the length the ferrari was tested on, then said the golf was faster.

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These aren't GPUs we're comparing

They actually are. They are comparing Intel QuickSync vs Nvidia NVENC.

 

 

I'm mainly referring to the performance they're able to achieve in many applications versus Android devices running the same application.

I would give Apple's SoCs credit for that, not their software which is quite frankly pretty shit. It's so "optimized" that it can't even run the plus models at native resolutions. It has to do dirty hacks where it renders things at a higher resolution first and then downscale it, because iOS apps don't support 1920x1080.

 

 

That's exactly the point he was making, it's not the method that matters, it's the result.

I agree that people are kind of missing the point, but at the same time TLD did not really do a good test either because we could not see the end result. We could for example not compare the picture quality, which will be different since they were using different encoders. By tweaking the x264 settings I could get an i5 to encode something faster than an i7 on Windows, but the final output will look worse and using the same settings the i7 would still be faster. Does that mean the i5 is faster? No, it means the test is flawed.

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For me it's the other way around. Premiere is stable AF now that I reinstalled it (I managed to corrupt a file before). 

 

Hmm, opposite for me though

 

They actually are. They are comparing Intel QuickSync vs Nvidia NVENC.

 

 

I would give Apple's SoCs credit for that, not their software which is quite frankly pretty shit. It's so "optimized" that it can't even run the plus models at native resolutions. It has to do dirty hacks where it renders things at a higher resolution first and then downscale it, because iOS apps don't support 1920x1080.

 

I meant it figuratively where LTT takes new GPUs and couple it with exact same hardware and exact same settings for the best comparison which in this case doesn't matter

 

I don't know about what process happens in iPhones before a video signal is out but again in the end it works fine, so i don't see any issues. Nevertheless I'm assuming there must be some reason they're doing that

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I agree that people are kind of missing the point, but at the same time TLD did not really do a good test either because we could not see the end result. We could for example not compare the picture quality, which will be different since they were using different encoders. By tweaking the x264 settings I could get an i5 to encode something faster than an i7 on Windows, but the final output will look worse and using the same settings the i7 would still be faster. Does that mean the i5 is faster? No, it means the test is flawed.

 

This is a very important point. Is the Mac using hardware encoding or software encoding? It's gonna have to be the former I would guess given the speed of encode. Not ideal. Hardware encoders are designed to be fast (good for real-time point of capture/in-camera encoding) but quite low quality. Software encoders are much better quality but very slow. Given that Linus (if I remember correctly) was pushing his projects up to his 72- thread rendering server to finish, he's going to get a much better encode because it's going to be software.

For a fairer challenge, I would think a PSNR and file size comparison should be made at the end, to go along with the time to render for calculating an overall score.

On a vaguely related note, I was always confused by Linus' scrubbing issues with 4K video. I would usually expect that when using Inter-frame encoded video. You really only want to be using Intra-only encoded video for editing, which is what CineForm is which Linus says he is using. Hence my confusion... and that's also what ProRes is, which is what the TLD said he is using in this video. Then again, I am more knowledgeable about video coding than I am about editing, so there could be plenty of other explanations for scrubbing issues that I am unaware of.

I don't think Intra-Coded 4K ought to be that difficult to decode. Though one thing that is possible is that Apple has some sort of hardware ProRes acceleration whilst the Nvidia is unlikely to accelerate CineForm decoding.

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So... TLD today posted this and it kind of bothers me. But watch it.

 

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA

thats total bullshit

 

final cut pro is soooo different than premier

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