[Updated 11/4/15] Fallout 4 to NOT feature Nvidia Gameworks, but Nvidia is still working with Bethesda on the game.

[Misanthrope]

Well there is precedent for using over-tessellation (beyond the point of visual gains) as a de-optimization technique fortunately for AMD users it can easily be limited in the catalyst control panel. NVIDIA Keller users may struggle though.

Yeah did that with HairWorks on Witcher 3 but honestly the look of regular hair was good enough. But for lighting effects on Fallout 4 it should be worth doing it.

[Monarch]

"Enhance the Creation Engine’s graphical core by adding a physically based deferred renderer."

 

 

So no MSAA then?

Like most other deferred renderer games...

Not happy, I love my MSAA and temporal AA sucks and looks like ass in comparison.

 

Afaik it is possible to make MSAA work with deferred rendering. Guys over at DICE said it's extra challenging, but possible. As a matter of fact, Frostbite does support MSAA. They decided not to have it in Battlefront for some reason though. 

[pixeldensity]

Hopefully gameworks won't interfere with people's ability to mod

[ChrisxIxCross]

guess what? Fallout 4 doesn't use GameWorks: http://wccftech.com/bethesda-reveals-graphics-tech-behind-fallout-4-confirms-nvidia-collaboration/

So does that mean its just going to be a "The way its meant to be played" title and not a Gameworks title?

[bogus]

So does that mean its just going to be a "The way its meant to be played" title and not a Gameworks title?

 

At max, yes, it seems like so - NVIDIA laid no hands in the actual game/engine = no bloatware just the good old in house development.

[GoldSrc]

I'll wait to see how it runs with AMD cards.

[HKZeroFive]

Alright, here's my take on it:

Bethesda claims that:

Like all the other features here, we’ve made it work great regardless of your platform.

Then why does this game require a minimum GPU of either a 550 Ti or a 7870?! Those cards are far apart in performance!

Secondly, the fact that NVIDIA isn't working with Bethesda on GameWorks, but rather on a part of the lighting engine, makes this situation (in my opinion) potentially even more controversial/catastrophic. What happens if AMD users need to turn down the hardware tesselation factor, that could negatively effect on how the lighting in the game looks? Remember what happened in Crysis 2?

Of course, I'm being skeptical. But I swear if NVIDIA and Bethesda gimps the performance of AMD cards on arguably one of the biggest games of the decade, I'm fucking done.

[NickTheMajin]

Am I the only one who wished they put hair works on the dog? It looks fucking awesome in the Witcher 3 and Far Cry. 

[EChondo]

Then why does this game require a minimum GPU of either a 550 Ti or a 7870?! Those cards are far apart in performance!

Yeah that's what has got me bewildered. I just upgraded to a 390 Nitro and built my sister a PC with an old 7870 of mine for Fallout 4, so I'm hoping "minimum" has some leeway.

 

It looks good from the leaks and I haven't heard anything about performance issues yet, but only like 5-8 people are on the PC version of Fallout and it seems only 1-2 of them are actually leaking stuff. Nov 9th/10th will be an interesting day it seems.

[Godlygamer23]

Eh ill hold off on crucifixion for now, borderlands has gameworks (or is it physx?)

It's just PhysX.

[SkilledRebuilds]

In comparison... I don't see the big deal.

 

Feels like...

Can't run an Xbox game exclusive on a PS4?

Can't run a PS4 exclusive on a Xbox1?

 

See where I'm going with this? In regards to the exclusive effects used in a game,..be it Nvidia or AMD

Not a deal breaker, and just a sense of people love to complain that their GPU purchase should be as equal (with the effects used) as another competitors rival.

 

I see it as an original game, with nice effects, then WITH a bonus set of exclusive features on top (Nvidia HBAO+ and the like), the original game is there still WHEN you disable these features. I really don't get what the fuss is about... Buy Nvidia, get Nvidia effects on top/replaced the ORIGINAL content.

 

Just like when you buy a game with TressFX (Lets pretend it performs better on AMD), it replaces/alternates another effect, but the original content is there for all to use just fine...when TressFX is disabled.

 

TL:DR

IMO - The FO4 original game content, is WITHOUT these effects turned on,... using the original effects intended,... having these Nvidia/AMD effects in the game, is a BONUS.

^I'm not saying this is correct, just how I see it.

 

/Think GTA5 shadow selections, you get in game Shadows as well as Nvidia shadows & AMD shadows.

Original content, + bonus GPU content, which you CAN turn off and have the original experience.

[Belgarathian]

I myself was hoping a game as big as Fallout 4 was going to remain vendor neutral but it looks like this will not be the case. The effects will include things such as ambient occlusion, shadowing and lighting effects. The effects that are being implemented are at the very least Nvidia versions of things that are already in place unlike Witcher 3's hairworks that works better with Nvidia gpus. Now I realize that if Nvidia gives out their resources to developers it makes sense that these effects SHOULD run better on their gpus since its THEIR code, but I still think there should be some kind of compromise that could be made that would allow AMD gpus to run these effects better some way or another. In my opinion the only option for AMD to compete with this is to create their own middleware like Gameworks which they already kinda have with TressFX but thats pretty much it.Then If they had enough money it would be nice if we could see developers working with BOTH AMD/Nvidia on their games and implement Nvidia/AMD versions of said effects. Or Nvidia has their own suite of cool exclusive effects in the game while AMD has theirs. Then I think everybody would be happy.That being said I'm hoping that the game will look and run just fine on either Nvidia or AMD hardware. What do you guys think?

 

 

Why can't Nvidia and AMD Radeon Technologies Group just start a JV together for game development bloatware middleware? Best of both worlds and non of this exclusive graphics showcasing where they both pretend that it was an accident that the other vendor performs ~20fps slower. 

 

I'm still waiting for Nvidia to be forced to support VESA Adaptive-Sync (Freesync)

[Tenelia]

That being said I'm hoping that the game will look and run just fine on either Nvidia or AMD hardware. What do you guys think?

 

 

That.

[SXCS23]

Why don't developers just grey out Gameworks options if an AMD card is detected? This can't be hard to do. Right? I couldn't enable EAX back when Halo PC was released. It was impossible from the in game menus because my PC didn't support it.

Wouldn't hearing complaints of those options not being available to AMD users be better than hearing the game runs like garbage because some users don't know better? Novice PC gamers likely only know they can run X game in 4K at a playable frame rate so they should be able to play X game that uses Gameworks. However, when it runs like garbage at 1080p, they'll complain about it not being optimized. In reality, it may be because they have options enabled that simply is not designed for their hardware.

tl;dr Grey out Gameworks options for AMD users because novice users don't know better.

[SkilledRebuilds]

Why don't developers just grey out Gameworks options if an AMD card is detected? This can't be hard to do. Right? I couldn't enable EAX back when Halo PC was released. It was impossible from the in game menus because my PC didn't support it.

Wouldn't hearing complaints of those options not being available to AMD users be better than hearing the game runs like garbage because some users don't know better? Novice PC gamers likely only know they can run X game in 4K at a playable frame rate so they should be able to play X game that uses Gameworks. However, when it runs like garbage at 1080p, they'll complain about it not being optimized. In reality, it may be because they have options enabled that simply is not designed for their hardware.

tl;dr Grey out Gameworks options for AMD users because novice users don't know better.

I agree, its not like they are not getting the ORIGINAL content the devs wanted them to experience anyway.

Exclusive GPU features are just a bonus (The cherry on top of Original Content)

[SXCS23]

I agree, its not like they are not getting the ORIGINAL content the devs wanted them to experience anyway.

Exclusive GPU features are just a bonus (The cherry on top of Original Content)

Exactly. It's like nvenc. It's a bonus for people using Nvidia. AMD users aren't outraged with it running poorly on their cards. Why? Because they simply just can't run it. It's just a bonus for Nvidia users.

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

In comparison... I don't see the big deal.

 

Feels like...

Can't run an Xbox game exclusive on a PS4?

Can't run a PS4 exclusive on a Xbox1?

 

See where I'm going with this? In regards to the exclusive effects used in a game,..be it Nvidia or AMD

Not a deal breaker, and just a sense of people love to complain that their GPU purchase should be as equal (with the effects used) as another competitors rival.

 

I see it as an original game, with nice effects, then WITH a bonus set of exclusive features on top (Nvidia HBAO+ and the like), the original game is there still WHEN you disable these features. I really don't get what the fuss is about... Buy Nvidia, get Nvidia effects on top/replaced the ORIGINAL content.

 

Just like when you buy a game with TressFX (Lets pretend it performs better on AMD), it replaces/alternates another effect, but the original content is there for all to use just fine...when TressFX is disabled.

 

TL:DR

IMO - The FO4 original game content, is WITHOUT these effects turned on,... using the original effects intended,... having these Nvidia/AMD effects in the game, is a BONUS.

^I'm not saying this is correct, just how I see it.

 

/Think GTA5 shadow selections, you get in game Shadows as well as Nvidia shadows & AMD shadows.

Original content, + bonus GPU content, which you CAN turn off and have the original experience.

 

You say that, but look:

 

 

There is no mention of gameworks in the settings menu nor does it state that options are only for Nvidia GPUs. The most prominent being the god rays effects. This again, if it turns out to be effects that cripple the performance of AMD cards, like how it did in project cars. Will leave another bad impression on Nvidia yet again. Different from what Rockstar did in GTA 5. Or other games with gameworks effects. 

[bogus]

Whenever you put your product in the hands of third-partys I'm always suspicious - specially such a shaddy company as NVIDIA.

[Humbug]

I understand the overall criticism of gameworks because it tends to perform bad in general, on NVIDIA GPUs too. And the difficulty in optimizing...

But I don't think AMD users should be unduly worried. There's almost no game out there which performs badly on AMD. I really wouldn't worry if I was an AMD user. They may make it difficult for AMD to optimize but in the end after driver update AMD always seems to perform as well. Even if it means more work for the driver team...

[dimitriianghelov]

this is the only thing making me question my pre-order , i don't understand why they didn't say from the start that it was a Gamedoesn'twork title... it feels dishonest.

[Nineshadow]

I understand the overall criticism of gameworks because it tends to perform bad in general, on NVIDIA GPUs too. And the difficulty in optimizing...

But I don't think AMD users should be unduly worried. There's almost no game out there which performs badly on AMD. I really wouldn't worry if I was an AMD user. They may make it difficult for AMD to optimize but in the end after driver update AMD always seems to perform as well. Even if it means more work for the driver team...

And that's their jobs honestly. Making optimized drivers.

Nvidia made effects that they optimized for their platforms and games are using them. That means less fiddling with drivers later down the road for them.

[Humbug]

this is the only thing making me question my pre-order , i don't understand why they didn't say from the start that it was a Gamedoesn'twork title... it feels dishonest.

If you preordered it on steam you can get a refund giving the reason as 'gameworks' LOL

If you wanna send a message

[Humbug]

And that's their jobs honestly. Making optimized drivers.

Nvidia made effects that they optimized for their platforms and games are using them. That means less fiddling with drivers later down the road.

There is a valid concern though that these games tend to not perform well on NVIDIA GPUs too. It's not just an AMD issue...

[Nineshadow]

There is a valid concern though that these games tend to not perform well on NVIDIA GPUs too. It's not just an AMD issue...

Yes...it's the graphical effects. They are demanding.

What interest would Nvidia have in gimping their own performance on purpose?

[Humbug]

Yes...it's the graphical effects. They are demanding.

What interest would Nvidia have in gimping their own performance on purpose?

Well the question is whether the graphical effects are written in the most optimal way to render as efficiently as possible at the highest possible absolute framerates? Or is it written in a way to make sure an Nvidia GPU beats the corresponding AMD GPU by 10%? If the answer is the latter then you are sacrificing absolute performance on all GPUs involved in order to achieve that goal. E.g. You would code something which has AMD perform at 40fps with Nvidia at 45fps, rather than do something which allows them both to perform at 60fps. End result- everyone loses.