Nvidia's Domination of the Market - This is Bad

[babadoctor]

good luck nvidia, apple is going to take their solid gold A10 apple GPU's to the market, then your fucked.

[BrightCandle]

Ultimately if Nvidia genuinely finds itself without any competition in the desktop market then the government will split the up and make competition. An underperforming AMD is a worse solution than Nvidia 1 and Nvidia 2 fighting it out. Its not a dire circumstance if AMD fails its a temporary problem that governments fix all the time.

[Elapo]

I can mostly agree, but atm everyone in the world couldn't go live in a cage, u must remember that back when humanity was the hunterer gatherer type we were like 1/100th or less of the amount that we are now...

 

I'm not saying we should give up comfort. There's plenty of things you can do as a human without an effect on your comfort. That's the point, if everyone makes a small improvement, it gets multiplied by a couple billion!

 

I would say innovation is doing the same thing better or doing new things

 

That's pretty much what I said though, doing the same thing better (or, at least, what I meant to say). 

 

Which is, I think, what manufacturers are doing now. A new GPU does the same thing as an older one, but slightly better and for less power. The same thing, but better!

[Watsyurdeal]

Well if AMD gave me a reason to buy their stuff I would, their processors aren't as good as intel's in my experience, and their gpu's only have bang for buck going for them, I prefer Nvidia's software and drivers, even though they're a bitch on windows 10 atm.

I haven't had any reason to buy AMD's stuff, unless they give me a compelling reason to, sorry. 

[juretrn]

At this rate AMD is going to stop making desktop GPUs very soon and focus on embedded (consoles). NVIDIA will surely pump their prices up then. 

[Guest Kloaked]

At this rate AMD is going to stop making desktop GPUs very soon and focus on embedded (consoles). NVIDIA will surely pump their prices up then. 

 

Not true.

[juretrn]

Not true.

Not true what?

[Guest Kloaked]

Not true what?

 

All of it.

[juretrn]

All of it.

You think any self-respecting company would stay in a segment that has no profitability for them any more? 

They have to step up their game or lose what market share they still have. 

[Guest Kloaked]

You think any self-respecting company would stay in a segment that has no profitability for them any more? 

They have to step up their game or lose what market share they still have. 

 

Why would they focus on consoles? That makes no sense.

[juretrn]

Why would they focus on consoles? That makes no sense.

PS4 and XB1 both use AMD GPUs... so that's the only thing they have going for them ATM.

[App4that]

The Xbox One uses AMD parts. Let that sink in.

[Prysin]

The main problem people that I know have with AMD compared to Nvidia is power consumption and heat. 

 

A LOT of hypocritical kneejerk fanboys do.

People seem to fail to realize that the difference in power draw between the 970 and 390 per say is ONE OR TWO LIGHTBULBS.

just go turn off the light in another room where you/anyone else isnt using and the power difference is practically zero.

but people do not want to admitt that. Because it defeats their argument.

Hell, even if you made a fully OCd R9 390x + FX 8350 setup, with 1.6V RAM and only HDDs, you would still, even with all the power draw, save more power by SPENDING ONE MINUTE LESS EVERY TIME YOU TAKE A SHOWER.... One minute less of hot water being used is going to save you more in the long run then using the most efficient Intel + Nvidia setup you can imagine.

Why is that?

Because the time it takes to heat up 20-50litres of water to 70 degrees C (got to be over 63c or else there is a risk of salmonella developing in the pipes and boiler) takes more time and energy then most people spend on their PC gaming at 100% load.

Think for a moment. a normal water boiler you have on the kitchen sink uses 2KW, it uses 1-2 minutes to heat 2-3 litres of water...

The average boiler is 2-3KW, it needs to heat up AND MAINTAIN the heat of approximatly 200-300 litres... Every-time you open the tap, the outside water that entres the tank is around 4-8c, maybe a bit higher during summer in hot places.... now to take several hundreds of litres of water and heat all of it up to 70c, when you "start out" at 4-8c...

THINK people....

This is where your REAL power drain is.

a GPU using 60w more power at full load for 2-10 hours IS A BLOODY DROP IN THE OCEAN!!!

Just going from using normal thermostats to day/night cycle thermostats can save you more money per year on electrical heating THEN YOUR PC CONSUMES DURING THAT YEAR!

I work as a Electrician. These are simply facts of life, and it is part of my job to inform people how to save on electricity usage. Hell, we had 30min - 1 hour a day in school for half a year just learning how to stop wasting energy. And you dimwitted fanboys cry about ONE LIGHTBULB!!!

If you want to make friends with the polar bears, then believe me when i say, they dont care about a lightbulb, they dont care about ten million lightbulbs. Because the consumption difference between Nvidia and AMD, even on a global scale, is negligent to the point of ridiculousness.

And as for the power bill argument...

you are arguing about 5 dollars a year.

Skip out on three bottles of cola and you have made up the difference....

The heat argument.

Turn off your electrial heating devices in the room you are in during "gaming". Doing so will save you MORE money then buying parts that output less heat in a PC. Way more.

And aslong as your PC is running, it will maintain the heat in your room much more "power efficiently" then a electrical oven will.

 

 

Because you, and your friends, are ignorant. that is why.

[Prysin]

The Xbox One uses AMD parts. Let that sink in.

Which microsoft in their great wisdom asked to be nerfed into oblivion so that they would never ever again get another "red ring of death" scandal on their hands

 

you can read more about the differences of those APUs here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_%28microarchitecture%29

[maizenblue]

Are people not allowed to make their own choices? The gpu market is so close in terms of performance these days that we DO have to look at smaller details when making a decision. When the performance difference is this small, are people not allowed to look for other things like heat output/power consumption, available services, software bundles, ...? All those things rise in value when performance is nearly equal, like it has been for a while.

Also, forgive my rant, but that post you linked actually annoys me.

The poster of that reaction is assuming we all use only electricity to heat our water AND that we leave lightbulbs on when we exit the room.

While the difference in power draw may "only" be 1-2 lightbulbs, all bits help (and then we're not yet talking about cooling, just electricity consumption.)

I've been turning off lights when I leave the room since I can remember, and our water is heated by the sun. I only shower for 10 min tops (and the water isn't on constantly), I already make so much effort to reduce my footstep in those areas, and now you're telling me that I can't want the most efficient hardware for my system just because it makes "just" 2 lightbulbs of difference?

Sure, there's a lot of hypocrites among those "lower TDP = better" guys, but am I not allowed to go a bit further?

As a sidenote: They don't even sell lightbulbs in belgium anymore. Only LED or those other power saving thingies. you know why? Because lightbulbs use too much power.

So sure, it often doesn't have a big impact when compared to other things you can do, but it was enough for me to care about it.

/rant

So you've ruled out a 980 ti, because that's a power hog as well?

Also overclocking can greatly increase power consumption. The 780 ti was a power hog too.

The problem with nvidia fans using this argument is the inconsistency.

[EpicAdom]

Whether or not we like it, we need to look at the cold hard facts. Nvidia is absolutely blowing away AMD in regards to market share, with the former holding a commanding a huge share of the market: http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/08/21/amd-owns-only-18-of-graphics-card-market-share-nvidia-rises-over-the-80-mark/ (Mercury Research - http://www.mercuryresearch.com/graphics-pr-2015-q3.pdf)

 

Things are looking more and more bleak for AMD and it looks like we're on the verge of a monopoly. I'm seriously hoping that DX12 makes AMD more competitive, if not it looks like Nvidia will continue its current trend.

 

Monopolies stifle innovation and raise prices for us as consumers, which is the opposite of what we want. I honestly don't know what to do to remedy this. There are laws and restrictions in place to prevent monopolies from forming, but I'm doubtful that these precautions will fully limit the damage of AMD going under or continuing to lose market share. 

 

I understand that this is like beating a dead horse, but the trend is not reversing as many predicted. 

The Federal Trade Commission exists, so we're fine. If Nvidia gains a monopoly on the x86 graphics market, then the FTC will fix that. However, splitting up Nvidia is a potential mess due to intellectual property and how that will be split up.

[Dabombinable]

1. Its refreshed there are improvements. A rebadge means NOTHING changed.

2. Why does it matter? Why design a new chip if you already have something with the right price/perf?

 

Technically it's not a rebadge because some parts of the board are different along with the extra 4GB of memory. Regardless, the launch price was $100 cheaper than the 200 series so why does any of this matter? If it was the same price I could understand, but it isn't. The 300 series is now the mainstream cards, and the Fury's are the high end. In the current setup, the Fury replaces the old 290x and the 390x replaces the old 290. 

 

The 300 series are not being touted as the same performance class, they are now a step below the previous series.

 

I get why they are doing it though. They put their eggs in the "Fury and HBM" basket. With what little resources they have left this was the right call. Hopefully next year we will see HBM coming to the high-end of the mainstream cards, and then they can move the old chips down a few more pegs thus saving shitloads of R&D cost and still providing competitive products. This is like "Running a business efficiently 101".

 

And like I said before, the AMD cards are very competitive, which is why I don't understand why they aren't doing better than is being reported.

 

AMD makes the GPU, the vendors make the graphics cards. The vendors have changed the graphics card but the GPU are still the same. They are rebadges.

[thekeemo]

AMD makes the GPU, the vendors make the graphics cards. The vendors have changed the graphics card but the GPU are still the same. They are rebadges.

the chip is being manufactured differently which allows it to run cooler, draw less power and have a higher clock.

[Khajiit Dealer]

The Xbox One uses AMD parts. Let that sink in.

 

So that's why Xbones can only do 30 FPS @720p...

[Dabombinable]

the chip is being manufactured differently which allows it to run cooler, draw less power and have a higher clock.

No it isn't. If it was you wouldn't be able to flash an R9 290X 8GB to an R9 390X and make use of the better drivers.

[thekeemo]

No it isn't. If it was you wouldn't be able to flash an R9 290X 8GB to an R9 390X and make use of the better drivers.

Most of the time you cant because the 290x 99% of the time cant handle the higher clocks. And its the same chip, just refined, what you're saying is the 4790k is a rebrand of a 4770k .

[GzeroD]

No it isn't. If it was you wouldn't be able to flash an R9 290X 8GB to an R9 390X and make use of the better drivers.

Flashed 290(x) have been having issues with waking from sleep as well as general stability only modified bioses have been stable and some of them disable the lowest power states. 

also the driver improvements have been in the main catalyst Drivers since 15.8 for regular 290(x) too use; there is still a performance gap (not the 10-15% there was but still around 5% clock for clock) 

[App4that]

So that's why Xbones can only do 30 FPS @720p...

Still sells, and with the PS4 also having AMD components they sell well. The opium of the masses is not limited in quantity by morality or your view of it.

[Nishizumi]

Thing is, people act like AMD is bad because it gets hotter and eats more power whereas if they actually bothers to look at temps, AIB versions of the R9/R7 cards runs just as hot if not cooler than AIB Nvidia cards. Even for power consumption, they think you have to fork over a thousand dollars more each month where in reality its only 25 cents more.

[Kevguy]

It is well known that:

1. Nvidia is kicking AMD's butt in the GPU market.

2. Intel is kicking AMD's butt in the CPU market.

What can we do about it?

Nothing.