Should we support AMD?

[Edgar R. Zakarian]

Sadly not true. I once worked closely with a family friend who works in anti-trust investigations for the government, and sadly the power they have is trivial until a major problem occur, or the blatant monopoly over a commodity becomes so painful to the consumer that it can no longer be ignored. Nvidia, and intel atm technically both dominate the market, making up respectively +70% and +80% of the share. By all means these companies could control 90% of the market and still have no actions taken against them, though that would constitute too powerful a hold on any given commodity. Coupled with neither of the companies wanting to expand much further without AMD being around, because they already control too much of the market. 

 

Basically, the government can't do anything until serious, serious problems start, and even when they do start the government can still ignore it for some time. And that's even if serious problems start in the first place. intel is already backing away from expanding their market in fear already of action being taken against them, which is why you see such a major focus on slower, less "impressive" launches, only really focusing on getting out updates to their lineups, never really a whole revamp.

Wonder what they could launch if they wanted to go balls to the walls in speed AND efficiency at the same time, but focusing speed.

[Dabombinable]

So how do I do that with 8800 GTX?

You can't. It was the GTX version that had the same core, though I've never heard of a successful flash for an 8800GTS>9800GTX.

[AresKrieger]

snip

If amd wasn't around their market share in the US would be ~100%, they've broken companies up for less, ~70% is fine as long as there is competition, in the gpu market there is competition; the cpu market hasn't had much but amd is pushing forward new products (and people still buy amd cpus that are on the market for reasons I don't understand) so there is still technically competition, there are other ways out if amd fails for them to avoid major government action but nvidia and intel would have to basically invent competitors. Trust laws are in place to protect people from inflated prices or shady practices by corporations not to make a even market in terms of market share, but a complete monopoly in a major industry faces some repercussions unless they payed off the right people (cough cough comcast/ time warner cough).

[don_svetlio]

If amd wasn't around their market share in the US would be ~100%, they've broken companies up for less, ~70% is fine as long as there is competition, in the gpu market there is competition; the cpu market hasn't had much but amd is pushing forward new products (and people still buy amd cpus that are on the market for reasons I don't understand) so there is still technically competition, there are other ways out if amd fails for them to avoid major government action but nvidia and intel would have to basically invent competitors. Trust laws are in place to protect people from inflated prices or shady practices by corporations not to make a even market in terms of market share, but a complete monopoly in a major industry faces some repercussions unless they payed off the right people (cough cough comcast/ time warner cough).

#GameWorksIsShady

[Atmos]

If amd wasn't around their market share in the US would be ~100%, they've broken companies up for less, ~70% is fine as long as there is competition, in the gpu market there is competition; the cpu market hasn't had much but amd is pushing forward new products (and people still buy amd cpus that are on the market for reasons I don't understand) so there is still technically competition, there are other ways out if amd fails for them to avoid major government action but nvidia and intel would have to basically invent competitors. Trust laws are in place to protect people from inflated prices or shady practices by corporations not to make a even market in terms of market share, but a complete monopoly in a major industry faces some repercussions unless they payed off the right people (cough cough comcast/ time warner cough).

 

Hm, paying off the right people, sounds a lot like, ehem, conservative lobbying.

[Atmos]

Wonder what they could launch if they wanted to go balls to the walls in speed AND efficiency at the same time, but focusing speed.

 

If you want to know, then just look back a handful of years when AMD was actually competetive. It took us like 5 years to break the gigahertz barrier, and then two years give or take to get to 3ghz (spit balling here, too lazy to actually look up the timing). Other than that, you actually had major leaps in IPC each generation, not just basically the same architecture year after year, just with a dye shrink.

[Manny Calavera]

its 40% over Carrizo... a product that is designed 100% for LAPTOPS...

 

in theory, it should be 55% over A10 7850k seeing as Carrizo is supposed to be 15% higher IPC then Kaveri (A10 7850k)...

Please, atleast get THIS simple thing straight.

pretty sure its not 15% improv, but still

 

you are right, if its true, it will be powerful as i7`s and 6c/12t variant will destroy i5`s aswell

[Edgar R. Zakarian]

You can't. It was the GTX version that had the same core, though I've never heard of a successful flash for an 8800GTS>9800GTX.

what?

[Prysin]

pretty sure its not 15% improv, but still

 

you are right, if its true, it will be powerful as i7`s and 6c/12t variant will destroy i5`s aswell

actually AMD aimed for 25-30% increase in single core performance going from Steamroller to Excavator, but their final numbers was more inline with >15%...

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9319/amd-launches-carrizo-the-laptop-leap-of-efficiency-and-architecture-updates/4

[Nena Trinity]

I say if they offer a good deal then go for it!

 

THERE IS STILL NO EXCUSE FOR THEIR LINUX DRIVERS!!!

[Manny Calavera]

actually AMD aimed for 25-30% increase in single core performance going from Steamroller to Excavator, but their final numbers was more inline with >15%...

 

http://anandtech.com/show/9319/amd-launches-carrizo-the-laptop-leap-of-efficiency-and-architecture-updates/4

so we can expect 20% real increase

 

still not to shabby, if they overclock well

[Prysin]

so we can expect 20% real increase

 

still not to shabby, if they overclock well

Carrizo is purely laptop

 

as for the 40% increase... no, that is most likely for real.

why?

because that is pretty much the difference between CMT (current gen FX) and SMT (Intel).....So i do not doubt that AMD can catch up to HASWELL Devils Canyon.

But i have no faith in them catching up to Skylake or Skylake-E with ZEN... not the ways things are looking atm.

[Prysin]

As for reasons to "support AMD"

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtJ293d9_es

 

 

CONSOLES ARE POWERED BY AMD!!!

 

ASLONG AS THEY USE X86-64 APUS, WE WILL GET LESS SHITTY PORTS. BECAUSE THE CONSOLE APUs USES A MODDED VERSION OF DX12/Vulcan/Mantle...

 

DO YOU WANT TO GO BACK TO EVEN SHITTIER PORTS? I DONT!!!

[Snooli]

Just to step back in, this is way deeper then we might think.

 

A company can have a monopoly as long as they don't abuse it. Now the problem is, we don't really know what that means with computers. Intel is approaching limits of their technology. AMD bought rights for IBM's technology, which is better than Intel's. But when we loose AMD, how can we know what price for what is not abusing the monopoly?

For Nvidia, it get's only worse. With 3DFX, they bought their mentality too. 3DFX were doing great only as long, as they had over 50% market share. Nobody will use your technology (Glide, GameWorks) if there are not that many cards uusing it. But with no games using these technologies, nobody will buy their cards. => If Nvidia hit the ground, they hit it hard. But why am I talking about Nvidia going bankrupt? Because both DX12 benchmarks are prooving what some people thought for some time now. AMD cards do actually have that much more power for that much less money. DX12 came with a clean table for new drivers, and how did that go.

As for CPUs, hell this is funny. If AMD dies, AMD64 dies too. Now that should not be such a problem, all new PCs will run ARM (most likely). Oh wait, Intel has no good ARM offering. But Nvidia does.

AMD wants to live to gain money. Intel needs AMD to keep their place in desktop PCs. Nvidia needs AMD to exist, so they are not split by US goverment. However they can't allow AMD to grow over their heads, as they would have to give up all they have and make a chip that actually performs.

 

Definetly gonna be fun to watch. Meanwhile, let's just all buy what gives most value in our situations.

[shymi]

Disclaimer as usual: sorry if I repeat someone, 10 pages are a lot of comments and can't go through all of them.

 

I agree that AMD needs to be in business, it needs to be in the market and be competitive, because competition pushes companies to release innovation to the masses.

Now on the other hand - I cannot invest in something, that is not competitive. Some of AMD's GPUs are great price/performance competitors, I personally use a R9 280, but, and it's a huge one, I cannot insert a component which could bottleneck in the near future the whole system. AMD had some great CPUs  about 5-6 years ago(ah, Phenoms, still love them), but today the FX line is a total bust. Maybe the only thing, that saves the CPU division, are the APUs used for low budget gaming, although the latest generation of Intel chips brought a huge dent to that part of AMD's market. 

Most likely all of the members of the forum don't know - I'm not a blind fan, I use parts, which at the moment of purchase have all that I want(in best case scenario - need) for the money I can spend and it doesn't matter for me who is the manufacturer or designer. I really, really, really want AMD to get more market share with Zen and the new generation of GCN with HBM. The market needs competition not only to keep price reasonable, but to bring to the table new stuff and keep re-brands away.

Again, as usual - this is my point of view and please, do not bash me too hard

[don_svetlio]

Disclaimer as usual: sorry if I repeat someone, 10 pages are a lot of comments and can't go through all of them.

 

I agree that AMD needs to be in business, it needs to be in the market and be competitive, because competition pushes companies to release innovation to the masses.

Now on the other hand - I cannot invest in something, that is not competitive. Some of AMD's GPUs are great price/performance competitors, I personally use a R9 280, but, and it's a huge one, I cannot insert a component which could bottleneck in the near future the whole system. AMD had some great CPUs  about 5-6 years ago(ah, Phenoms, still love them), but today the FX line is a total bust. Maybe the only thing, that saves the CPU division, are the APUs used for low budget gaming, although the latest generation of Intel chips brought a huge dent to that part of AMD's market. 

Most likely all of the members of the forum don't know - I'm not a blind fan, I use parts, which at the moment of purchase have all that I want(in best case scenario - need) for the money I can spend and it doesn't matter for me who is the manufacturer or designer. I really, really, really want AMD to get more market share with Zen and the new generation of GCN with HBM. The market needs competition not only to keep price reasonable, but to bring to the table new stuff and keep re-brands away.

Again, as usual - this is my point of view and please, do not bash me too hard

I'd also like to say that Nvidia prices over here are simply a joke

Not sure where or when you got your 280 but when i was shopping, the 960 was about 300 euros and the 280 was 240-250.

[Tac127]

I don't buy just because of brand.

 

I select my purchases based on my needs and bang for buck.

 

And when it narrows down to an AMD and Nvidia GPU, I pick AMD.

 

Because I know they won't stab me in the back. In fact they add value to their GPU after release (look at Mantle for example)

They also don't try to take away or sell you things that you already have (look at mobile Gsync and mobile GPU overclocking)

And last but not least, AMD don't carry out selfish, douchey practices like Nvidia.

but mantle died

[don_svetlio]

but mantle died

#GameWorksIsDyingSoon

[shymi]

I'd also like to say that Nvidia prices over here are simply a joke

Not sure where or when you got your 280 but when i was shopping, the 960 was about 300 euros and the 280 was 240-250.

It was about a year ago and had a good offer from a friend(it was in the lower 200 euros, don't remember exactly), who works with one of the official distributors of Asus in Bulgaria. About the prices of nVidia here - yeah, they are too majestic

[don_svetlio]

It was about a year ago and had a good offer from a friend(it was in the lower 200 euros, don't remember exactly), who works with one of the official distributors of Asus in Bulgaria. About the prices of nVidia here - yeah, they are too majestic

Yep - I got mine for about 240-250 IIRC - was 6-7 months ago. I think the Gigabyte one was better though - not as much coil whine

[shymi]

Yep - I got mine for about 240-250 IIRC - was 6-7 months ago. I think the Gigabyte one was better though - not as much coil whine

Nah - you must hear the GPU roar, when it's fully stressed

[don_svetlio]

Nah - you must hear the GPU roar, when it's fully stressed

Gigabyte? yeah - that's why I didn't get it

[Khajiit Dealer]

In terms of Processors and Graphics Cards, the number of competitive companies are few and far between. Processors are dominated by Intel and AMD while Graphics Cards are dominated by Nvidia and AMD. The way things are going currently with AMD Processors, it's looking more and more like Intel is going to gain a monopoly on the industry. In terms of Graphics Cards, if Nvidia or AMD lost significant market share or went belly-up, we'd have another unchecked monopoly on our hands. It's looking more and more like future gaming will cost even more than it does now should any of the above scenarios occur. 

 

This could damage our already shrinking market irreversibly seeing as how the market share of PC's is already going down every year. 

[Aytex]

k

[Khajiit Dealer]

Without competition prices wouldn't lower

 

That's exactly what I'm saying, the prices would be higher.