Do you believe religion?

[Overkilled]

So atheists what's after death?

[Godlygamer23]

Ok, disregard that statement. Another question for all the atheists out there: How do you explain the attraction of atoms? What causes them to come together and and create life as diverse and beautiful as the life found on earth? 

You don't need to be an atheist to accept evolution. Many Christians accept evolution. If your proof of God are things we don't understand, your God becomes an ever-receding pocket of ignorance.

[Godlygamer23]

So atheists what's after death?

As far as we're concerned, nothing. We're dead. Atheists don't need delusions to deal with the daily problems that occur in life.

[Overkilled]

Anybody believe in reincarnation?

[Godlygamer23]

Anybody believe in reincarnation?

I don't.

[Fred Castellum]

By the holiness of gensokyo @alpenwasser that's scary!

[alpenwasser]

By the holiness of gensokyo @alpenwasser that's scary!

That's the point.

[Norman_the_Owl]

So atheists what's after death?

Have you ever been put out for a surgery or something?

 

That. But you never wake up.

 

It's literally nothing, your consciousness ends

[Guest]

How do you believe the universe was created if you believe in science?

 

Not even going to go there. 

[Godlygamer23]

How do you believe the universe was created if you believe in science?

That is an extremely complicated topic, but it does not explain God. Science is not out to disprove God - science does not test the nature of the supernatural. It cannot - it is out of the bounds of science, so we use nature to explain things.

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

You just HAD to say that, didn't you?

Yes, I HAD to say it. You know what? I'll say it again.

 

Religion is a disease ...

Religion has been causing wars for millennia now. Millions of people died for a god of whose existence there isn't even the slightest shred of evidence. Often even for the same god as the other side worships but for different prophets.

There are only a handful of diseases throughout the history of mankind that killed more people than religion did.

The world would be better off without it. So yeah, I'll call religion a disease.

Or would you prefer it if I called it a psychological disorder? After all if you hear voices nowadays (like several bible figures did back then), they put you in solitary or on medication.

 

... that robs people of common sense ...

We know that the big bang occurred around 13.8 billion years ago, that the sun is around 4.6 billion years old and that the Earth is around 4.5 billion years old. Yet god supposedly created the heavens and earth first, then the sun (all on the first day), then added the stars to the firmament on the fourth day.

We know that dinosaurs went extinct millions of years before mankind walked the earth, yet Genesis wants you to believe that god created Adam on the 6th day.

We also know for a fact that mankind evolved from apes, which means the whole Adam & Eve story that "explains" mankind's origins is just plain BS.

I'm not even going to go past Genesis because it would be a waste of time, but anyone who can think for himself can pick apart every single page in the entire old testament if he wants. Just about all major religions start out from that same old testament, a book that's full of lies and fairytales.

The main reason religious people are buying into it all is because they were indoctrinated, often from birth. "This is what happened, it's the only truth and all the rest is blasphemy, etc etc." Repeat that kind of stuff long enough and people WILL believe it.

Anyone with common sense would see it for what it is, but apparently it's far more convenient to just believe what some "representative of god" tells you to believe in rather than to think for yourself.

 

... and the motivation to do anything for themselves.

"Have faith", "It's in god's hands", "it is god's will", "God will help you", etc etc.

Even IF god would exist, he doesn't do jack for just about everyone who worships him and is in trouble in some way (illness, financial trouble, handicaps due to accidents, etc). If you want stuff done, get off your knees and make it happen yourself.

And seeing as I mentioned accidents : If someone ends up in a wheelchair after an accident, it's not "god testing his/her faith" but just bad luck or someone's fault. Either way, it will have ruined that person's life and what kind of god would want to ruin people's lives? An evil one perhaps, and in that case you can also keep your god to yourself.

And finally :

 

And you say that yet there are millions of rich, successful religious people. You couldn't be further from the truth....

god didn't make them rich, they were either born in wealth, got lucky or worked hard to get rich. I know that seemingly contradicts the bit you quoted, but hopefully the explanation in this post sheds more light on what I meant.

God had nothing to do with their wealth unless they're those television preachers ... but then again those do get rich not through god but by conning religious people into believing that they'll get a place in heaven if they give enough money to that preacher. (which brings me right back to the "common sense" remark).

[Guest]

Here's my view

I don't say I'm 100% atheist, but I am not catholic/christian or anything. I went to a catholic pre-school if that counts

I can't say god doesn't exist, because he could, and he could not, I believe when you die you get trapped in a lucid dream like state, making that a "Heaven"  and if you believe you have done wrong things

in your life that becomes your "hell" but ultimately like a lucid dream like state, making a "heaven" and a "hell" because that's what you have been telling yourself, I've done wrong things I'm going to hell, or I've done good things I'm going to heaven. But for those who haven't had a lucid dream before, its basically a dream you can control which in order to achieve it you have to realize your dreaming. Then again, I could be wrong. So wrong. I've just grown up more as Science is my bible compared to religion, I have gone to church once in my life and that was it. I don't really expect people to agree with me because this is my own personal opinion; if you have read this far ~Hi~

[Godlygamer23]

Here's my view

I don't say I'm 100% atheist, but I am not catholic/christian or anything. I went to a catholic pre-school if that counts

I can't say god doesn't exist, because he could, and he could not, I believe when you die you get trapped in a lucid dream like state, making that a "Heaven"  and if you believe you have done wrong things

in your life that becomes your "hell" but ultimately like a lucid dream like state, making a "heaven" and a "hell" because that's what you have been telling yourself, I've done wrong things I'm going to hell, or I've done good things I'm going to heaven. But for those who haven't had a lucid dream before, its basically a dream you can control which in order to achieve it you have to realize your dreaming. Then again, I could be wrong. So wrong. I've just grown up more as Science is my bible compared to religion, I have gone to church once in my life and that was it. I don't really expect people to agree with me because this is my own personal opinion; if you have read this far ~Hi~

My question then would be this: Can you prove any of this?

[RazerZ]

You don't need to be an atheist to accept evolution. Many Christians accept evolution. If your proof of God are things we don't understand, your God becomes an ever-receding pocket of ignorance.

You're right, we don't understand it. However we can appreciate how amazing it is. 

 

To quote Einstein, "my religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind".

[Remilia]

On the topic of death, isn't there a question in medicine about the existence of a "soul" beyond the body? I've remember reading about it in a book called "Blood and Guts", but it doesn't talk about modern medicine.

[Guest]

My question then would be this: Can you prove any of this?

No, there is no way to prove any of this, Yes there's the bible but who's to say its not written by some random person some time during BC; not saying that it is, I just don't particularly believe in a god in the sky, I think in a more scientific way, I see the proof that the earth was not created 2000 years ago or what the bible says I see the proof that it has been here for billions of years, that there where other creatures (Dino's!)

[Thorium19]

Wohoo, a religion thread!

Keep it nice people. Anyone steps out of line:

BANHAMMER

 

YAY! Hamertime:

 

 

 

 

To add my tuppence to the debate. No, I do not believe in religion, however I was raised as a Protestant of the Church of England, have been to a CofE school for primary school and have been at a Jewish high school for the last 7 years. I've learnt a lot about different variations of religion, and personally I believe religion has been good in the past to allow people control of the uneducated, unwashed masses. It also gives people something to look for in life, a sense of hope perhaps. Religion has a waning place in society, personally I believe it is holding us back as a species but it is still relevant for the time being.

I am an atheist and always will be, however my family is religious so I feel sympathetic to those who are religious, I understand why people might want to be and I accept that it is just the way of life.

p.s. If there is one religion I would ever think of following it would be Sikhism, due to the fact it does so much to help those who are unprivileged and the attitudes of those Sikhs I have met in the past.

[Albatross]

Can you prove this little court meeting actually happened? Even using your holy book.

 

Even using my book? I did. I said read the Book of Job, particularly Job 1:6. There is a lot of content, context and information in it, but I shall post in full.

 

 

One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

“Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power, but on the man himself do not lay a finger.”

Then Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.

 

One day when Job’s sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, a messenger came to Job and said, “The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, and the Sabeans attacked and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The fire of God fell from the heavens and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

 

While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, “The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and made off with them. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

 

While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, “Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother’s house, when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!”

 

At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship and said: “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked I will depart. The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away; may the name of the Lord be praised.”

 

In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.

 

And just so you know, it was not actually God who did those things, it was Satan to try and force Job to sin and hate and denounce God. He did not. Again Satan came to Court to attack man:

 

On another day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them to present himself before him. And the Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

 

Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

 

Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

 

“Skin for skin!” Satan replied. “A man will give all he has for his own life. But now stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face.”

 

The Lord said to Satan, “Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life.”

 

So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the crown of his head. Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes.

 

His wife said to him, “Are you still maintaining your integrity? Curse God and die!”

 

He replied, “You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?”

 

In all this, Job did not sin in what he said.

 

When Job’s three friends, Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite, heard about all the troubles that had come upon him, they set out from their homes and met together by agreement to go and sympathize with him and comfort him. When they saw him from a distance, they could hardly recognize him; they began to weep aloud, and they tore their robes and sprinkled dust on their heads. Then they sat on the ground with him for seven days and seven nights. No one said a word to him, because they saw how great his suffering was.

 

And then Job cursed and cursed, and attacked the Lord and the Lord listened patiently:

 

 

After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. 

 

He said:

 

“May the day of my birth perish, and the night that said, ‘A boy is conceived!’ That day—may it turn to darkness; may God above not care about it; may no light shine on it. May gloom and utter darkness claim it once more; may a cloud settle over it; may blackness overwhelm it. That night—may thick darkness seize it; may it not be included among the days of the year nor be entered in any of the months. May that night be barren; may no shout of joy be heard in it. May those who curse days curse that day, those who are ready to rouse Leviathan. May its morning stars become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn, for it did not shut the doors of the womb on me to hide trouble from my eyes.

 

Why did I not perish at birth, and die as I came from the womb? Why were there knees to receive me and breasts that I might be nursed? For now I would be lying down in peace; I would be asleep and at rest with kings and rulers of the earth, who built for themselves places now lying in ruins, with princes who had gold, who filled their houses with silver. Or why was I not hidden away in the ground like a stillborn child, like an infant who never saw the light of day? There the wicked cease from turmoil, and there the weary are at rest. Captives also enjoy their ease; they no longer hear the slave driver’s shout. The small and the great are there, and the slaves are freed from their owners.

 

Why is light given to those in misery, and life to the bitter of soul, to those who long for death that does not come, who search for it more than for hidden treasure, who are filled with gladness and rejoice when they reach the grave?

 

Why is life given to a man whose way is hidden, whom God has hedged in? For sighing has become my daily food; my groans pour out like water. What I feared has come upon me; what I dreaded has happened to me. I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest, but only turmoil.

 

(next part; Job 4)

Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied:

 

“If someone ventures a word with you, will you be impatient? But who can keep from speaking? Think how you have instructed many, how you have strengthened feeble hands. Your words have supported those who stumbled; you have strengthened faltering knees. But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged; it strikes you, and you are dismayed. Should not your piety be your confidence and your blameless ways your hope?

 

“Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished? Where were the upright ever destroyed? As I have observed, those who plow evil and those who sow trouble reap it. At the breath of God they perish; at the blast of his anger they are no more. The lions may roar and growl, yet the teeth of the great lions are broken. The lion perishes for lack of prey, and the cubs of the lioness are scattered.

 

“A word was secretly brought to me, my ears caught a whisper of it. Amid disquieting dreams in the night, when deep sleep falls on people, fear and trembling seized me and made all my bones shake. A spirit glided past my face, and the hair on my body stood on end. It stopped, but I could not tell what it was. A form stood before my eyes, and I heard a hushed voice:

 

“Can a mortal be more righteous than God? Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker? If God places no trust in his servants, if he charges his angels with error, how much more those who live in houses of clay, whose foundations are in the dust, who are crushed more readily than a moth! Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces; unnoticed, they perish forever. Are not the cords of their tent pulled up, so that they die without wisdom?’

 

(Job 5; please read for the remainder of Eliphaz and Temanite's replies)

 

(Job 6; Job's reply)

 

(Job 7; the rest of Job's reply Part. II)

 

(Job 8; Bildad and Shuhite's reply)

 

(Job 9; Job's reply to Bildad and Shuhite)

 

(Job 10: Job's reply to Bildad and Shuhite Part II)

 

(Job 11; Zophar the Naamathite's reply)

 

(Job 12; Job's reply to Zophar and Naamathite)

 

(Job 13; Job's Reply to Zophar and Naamathite Part II)

 

(Job 14; Job's Reply to Zophar and Naamathite Part III)

 

(Job 15)

 

(Job 16; Job's response)

 

(Job 17; Job's response Part II)

 

(Job 18)

 

(Job 19; Job's response (again))

 

(Job 20)

 

(Job 21; Job again)

 

(Job 22)

 

(Job 23; Job again)

 

(Job 24; Job again Part II)

 

(Job 25)

 

(Job 26; Job)

 

(Job 27; Job's Final Words)

 

(Job 28; Interlude)

 

(Job 29; Job's Final Defense)

 

(Job 30; Job's Final Defense Part II)

 

(Job 31; Job's Final Defense Part III)

 

(Job 32; Elihu's Response)

 

(Job 33; Elihu's Response Part II)

 

(Job 34; Elihu's Response Part IV)

 

(Job 35; Elihu's Response Part V)

 

(Job 36; Elihu's Response VI)

 

Job 37; Elihu's Response VII)

 

(Job 38; The Lord Speaks)

 

For the sake of length...please continue by clicking Job 38 and reading onward. It will end shortly after that, I promise! ahaha But this is important; the context is needed. You cannot argue it, against it or for it, if you do not read it. I have given you your answer but you must have the patience to read it through. Please.

 

Now you know; Satan had gone to court with other angels and challenged God for our love and free will etc.

 

@Captain Chaos

 

I'm sorry Captain Chaos but I cannot engage in discussion with someone who will obviously prematurely disregard me and my thoughts because he or she views me as a "disease"—that I am apart of some huge "evil", yet here I sit and give unto you a kindness you cannot, it seems, bestow upon others who live a life that does not harm you simply because you are uncomfortable with it. You would, and do, condemn religious people on the words and actions of wrong doers, hateful people etc yet you do some of the things you condemn so vehemently. Double standard or is this hypocrisy? Or should I condemn all atheists and their lack of faith to God by the actions of Joseph Stalin who was, in fact, one of the most evil men on the planet? No, I will not do such a (hateful) thing.

 

So I cannot and will not feed such flames. Evil occurs as evil occurs; with or without religion. You want to say religion is useless, that it does nothing, but you conveniently use it to denote it as the cause of all evil yet ignore the good it has brought and the good people who have come from it (many things are used incorrectly; it does not make that one thing itself evil or wrong). You decide, unfortunately, to lump us all up to tyrants and monsters who used and abused a "book" to do as they please (most which were people who were not even allowed to read). If religion were truly the cause of all the wrong in the world there would be no kindness from us, and there is kindness from us. All that can be said about religion is that it is misused to cause wrong doings to justify personal gain or the harm of others.

 

I would...am...more than willing to discuss this. But I do not wish to discuss it in such an immature and hateful way. If that is how you intend to, fine, go ahead, but I will not placate you. :unsure:

 

 

[minibois]

Ok, disregard that statement. Another question for all the atheists out there: How do you explain the attraction of atoms? What causes them to come together and and create life as diverse and beautiful as the life found on earth? 

That's an incredible complicated subject that I don't fully understand. I can't comment on that, as I am not a scientist.

But I know it's better to try to find it out, rather than assume.

 

So atheists what's after death?

Nothing.

 

Anybody believe in reincarnation?

No. It would be a cool thing, but I don't believe in it.

[Godlygamer23]

Even using my book? I did. I said read the Book of Job, particularly Job 1:6. There is a lot of content, context and information in it, but I shall post in full.

 

 

And just so you know, it was not actually God who did those things, it was Satan to try and force Job to sin and hate and denounce God. He did not. Again Satan came to Court to attack man:

 

And then Job cursed and cursed, and attacked the Lord and the Lord listened patiently:

 

 

For the sake of length...please continue by clicking Job 38 and reading onward. It will end shortly after that, I promise! ahaha But this is important; the context is needed. You cannot argue it, against it or for it, if you do not read it. I have given you your answer but you must have the patience to read it through. Please.

 

Now you know; Satan had gone to court with other angels and challenged God for our love and free will etc.

I've read the book of Job. So everything that happened to Job was over a challenge Satan issued to God? That's why God allowed those things to happen to him?

[Aphexx]

I believe there were a bunch of dudes walking around named jesus who may or may not have done good things for people. and I believe and know there are currently today a bunch of dudes named jesus doing good things for many people as well. 

 

I believe Roman historians were around to chronicle many of the events of history. while a lot of it was fluffed up with a bit of propaganda they provided in general a good overlook of society and the daily goings on.

 

I believe from historical records that there was a bit of a jewish uprising in and around the times of "christ's" time. 

 

I believe that outside Josephus who's works have been shown to be altered that there is a distinct and GLARING and GAPING HOLE in the historical records in regards to the biblical "Jesus" we have records on how many marched on the battle of Cannae, that Cato the Elder liked to drink a concoction of vinegar when on a march we know the battle tactics of Quintus Fabius Maximus when his armies were arranged against Hannibal we know Scippio Africanus' history from childhood and his landholdings and where he spent his free time..... 

 

We know all this, all this in tiny minutiae but somehow a "superman" who turned water to wine who walked on water who healed many with a touch of his hand a dude who was executed by ROMAN soldiers and came back to life.... a man like this evades the eye of historians? 

[dark_xzyph3r]

Atheist.

Don't care about religion much (have religious friends), but don't try to convert me. Don't try to make me believe what you believe, etc.

And please, don't influence school (making them not teach about evolution and stuff <- extreme example)

 

Seconded

[Mattrixx]

Raised Roman Catholic here. Still am (heck I'm only 19), though I've  really slipped from what a Catholic "should be."

 

In any case, I really don't try to convert or argue with people over religion, as I could care less what you do in your church, what you pray to or don't. As long as it doesn't interfere with me. I don't know if anyone remembers the Westboro Baptist Church, but they have their church here in Kansas, and have protested twice in a year at the town I live by because it's easy for them. They are the kind of in-your-face nuts that I'm not fond of.

 

Regarding science and scientific findings, I personally don't let my religious beliefs into it. 

[Albatross]

Wow! Am I glad that LTT added the "auto save" function. It has saved me countless times right now. haha

 

I've read the book of Job. So everything that happened to Job was over a challenge Satan issued to God? That's why God allowed those things to happen to him?

 

Hmm...I see where you are getting at; why does God allow people to be hurt etc etc and that "allowing" it to happen makes God evil, right? I have directed that above, in part, before your post toward another user.

 

edit: removed unnecessary rambling.

 

(if I do not immediately reply, I have crashed—unfortunately. But I will see and reply *if the thread doesn't get locked haha* when I have logged back on.)

[dfsdfgfkjsefoiqzemnd]

I'm sorry Captain Chaos but I cannot engage in discussion with someone who will obviously prematurely disregard me and my thoughts because he or she views me as a "disease"—that I am apart of some huge "evil", yet here I sit and give unto you a kindness you cannot, it seems, bestow upon others who live a life that does not harm you simply because you are uncomfortable with it. You would, and do, condemn religious people on the words and actions of wrong doers, hateful people etc yet you do some of the things you condemn so vehemently. Double standard or is this hypocrisy? Or should I condemn all atheists and their lack of faith to God by the actions of Joseph Stalin who was, in fact, one of the most evil men on the planet? No, I will not do such a (hateful) thing.

 

So I cannot and will not feed such flames. Evil occurs as evil occurs; with or without religion. You want to say religion is useless, that it does nothing, but you conveniently use it to denote it as the cause of all evil yet ignore the good it has brought and the good people who have come from it (many things are used incorrectly; it does not make that one thing itself evil or wrong). You decide, unfortunately, to lump us all up to tyrants and monsters who used and abused a "book" to do as they please (most which were people who were not even allowed to read). If religion were truly the cause of all the wrong in the world there would be no kindness from us, and there is kindness from us. All that can be said about religion is that it is misused to cause wrong doings to justify personal gain or the harm of others.

 

I would...am...more than willing to discuss this. But I do not wish to discuss it in such an immature and hateful way. If that is how you intend to, fine, go ahead, but I will not placate you. :unsure:

I said that religion in itself is like a disease, not that religious people are. I'd love to take the time and cure them of that disease, but I know from past experience that people don't want to be cured because they fail to acknowledge the problem. It's like alcoholism really, the first step towards a cure is to realize and admit that you have a problem and have been lying to yourself. Until you get to that point, nobody can help you.

Those wrong-doers you mention are not just a few individuals. They're vast quantities of people. People who actually started wars over religion as well as every single soldier who ever thought that his god was on his side.

Yes, I do condemn people who fight and kill others over and due to religion. I didn't even single out any particular religion and if I were to single one out it wouldn't even be christianity.

If you want to bring Stalin into it as an example of an evil atheist (which you kinda did by mentioning him in the first place), feel free to do so. But in that case remember that Hitler was a Roman catholic. Stalin killed millions because they had A religion, Hitler killed millions because they didn't share HIS religion.

Also keep in mind why Stalin became so evil and anti-religion, he was beaten by a priest on a daily basis. So it's fair to say that religion did influence his evil.

So evil will indeed occur with or without religion. However it more than often occurs with it.

At no point did I say religious people are "tyrants and monsters who use and abuse a book". The vast majority are merely listening to the words of people to whom that description might be more fitting.

It's good that you mentioned people misusing religion for personal gain.

Everyone, religious or not, only ever does good things for personal gain (either financial gain, to secure a place in whatever afterlife there is in his/her religion, just to feel good about oneself, to show moral superiority, etc). That's just human nature.