"Feds Say Collecting Data Is Not A Search Until It Looks At Them, Then Is It Not Piracy Until You View The File?"

[EChondo]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130722/00455923880/if-feds-say-collecting-data-is-not-search-until-it-looks-them-is-it-not-piracy-until-you-view-file.shtml
 

One of the (many) governmental excuses that have been spread in an attempt to defend the NSA surveillance practice of collecting every bit of data is that just the collection isn't a "search and seizure." That is, they claim that until they actually look at the data they've collected, they haven't even triggered a 4th Amendment issue. Of course, most people find that sort of redefinition difficult to believe from just a common sense standpoint. However, security guru Tom Ritter jokingly spun this around on Twitter recently:

Hey, so according to the government, I can download movies, and it isn't piracy until I watch them, right?

Okay, so I can already hear the copyright maximalist wonks banging away at their keyboards to mention that the exclusive rights provided under copyright law include reproduction and distribution, so merely making a copy via a download could violate those two rights. And, of course, that's how the courts have seen it. But, the point he's making is actually quite reasonable. Yes, according to common sense and the basic definitions in English we all know, when the NSA hoovered up all the data about all of your communications, most normal people would think it's a search. But, now that the feds are admitting that normal English doesn't apply, and that they can hold all your data without violating any law, it seems only fair to flip that around on them. So, even if basic English says that downloading a copy likely involves potentially infringing on the reproduction right, if we just use the NSA's dictionary, clearly, copyright holders should need to also prove that the file itself was opened. Otherwise, it's as if nothing at all happened...

 

So...I can download all the games I want, and it isn't "stealing", until I play them, right?

 

Tweet: https://twitter.com/TomRittervg/status/358663058891096065

 

[azzo]

I'll upload movies on piratebay, and as long as nobody torrents it, it won't be stealing. 

 

If its there, the data will be used. that is the whole point of collecting it in the first place

[EChondo]

If its there, the data will be used. that is the whole point of collecting it in the first place

True, but the feds have other explanations and views.

[mvitkun]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130722/00455923880/if-feds-say-collecting-data-is-not-search-until-it-looks-them-is-it-not-piracy-until-you-view-file.shtml

 

 

So...I can download all the games I want, and it isn't "stealing", until I play them, right?

 

Tweet: https://twitter.com/TomRittervg/status/358663058891096065

since we're being technical here it's pirating after you install it.

[looney]

or you just move to the Netherlands where you can legally download it....

[LAwLz]

Seems like that statement backfired on them quite a bit. To me this sounds like "oh crap, people are pissed that we are monitoring everyone as if they are criminals, and it might be illegal. We better try to come up with some bullshit statement which makes what we are doing sound OK".

 

Just stop treating everyone like a terrorist already. I am fairly sure terrorists don't chat over Skype when planning an attack so why the hell do they need access to that?

[Kamil]

So if I steal government secrets, it's not treason until I tell somebody?

[colonel_mortis]

So if I steal government secrets, it's not treason until I tell somebody?

No, it's not treason until you do something with the secrets which harms the Government. Speaking of which...

[ANIMAL_ORIGIN]

My brain parts hurt! -_-

[fade]

So it's not rape until you orgasm?

[Samdb]

So the motherboard isn't dead until you use it?

[ericlee30]

The FBI laws have always been this way. In no way shape or form is downloading games or movies illegal. It only becomes illegal if you Seed the content after downloading it "Sharing the Content Peer to peer " I have no clue on why so many people think that downloading content is illegal,. The government only cares about one kind of person, "the one uploading the content for everyone to get".

[Beskamir]

so a cat in a box is alive or dead until someone openes the box?

[Mobiilibanaani]

so a cat in a box is alive or dead until someone openes the box?

It's all about the quantum mechanics!!!!

Edit: Typos.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Mobiilibanaani

[EChondo]

So it's not rape until you orgasm?

I know you're joking...but that's a bit extreme...

[silencerbob]

It's all about the quantum mechanics!!!!

Edit: Typos.

/Austrian accent

Yourz data exists in a superstate of being both read and unread by ze government until you open ze box and find you've been arrested for animal cruelty...

Might have mixed something up there lol

[LAwLz]

The FBI laws have always been this way. In no way shape or form is downloading games or movies illegal. It only becomes illegal if you Seed the content after downloading it "Sharing the Content Peer to peer " I have no clue on why so many people think that downloading content is illegal,. The government only cares about one kind of person, "the one uploading the content for everyone to get".

No, it is illegal even if you don't seed anything. At least in the US and a lot of other countries as well.

[Beskamir]

/Austrian accent

Yourz data exists in a superstate of being both read and unread by ze government until you open ze box and find you've been arrested for animal cruelty...

Might have mixed something up there lol

You had to have watched veritasium to say that!

[silencerbob]

You had to have watched veritasium to say that!

Futurama actually

[Esivo]

I lol'd at some of your posts guys. I guess the feds, got themselves in a paradox.

[tobben]

Seems like that statement backfired on them quite a bit. To me this sounds like "oh crap, people are pissed that we are monitoring everyone as if they are criminals, and it might be illegal. We better try to come up with some bullshit statement which makes what we are doing sound OK".

 

Just stop treating everyone like a terrorist already. I am fairly sure terrorists don't chat over Skype when planning an attack so why the hell do they need access to that?

it seems people sometimes discuss and plan out their evil schemes through talking to eachother face to face ... so let's implant a trackig device and attach a microphone to all the people!

[mrthuvi]

So it's not rape until you orgasm?

I know you're joking...but that's a bit extreme...

 

  

Sadly, It is a thing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375635/USC-student-claims-police-told-NOT-raped-attacker-didnt-orgasm.html

[Hyydrah]

or you just move to the Netherlands where you can legally download it....

Is it actually legal to pirate there?

 

Edit:  http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/dutch-combat-piracy-new-downloader-406075

[Beskamir]

 

  

Sadly, It is a thing: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2375635/USC-student-claims-police-told-NOT-raped-attacker-didnt-orgasm.html

wait actually?! wow this world has some messed up laws...

[InfinateX]

I'm not an American so I may be missinformed on this, but is there anything written in the rights of an American citizen staing that it is illegal for the government to simply hold on to your information? This makes sense. They downlaod everybody's information, so it's not really a search. Calling it a search would imply they're trying to find something specific. Until they look through all of that data to find what they're after, they haven't begun a search.  It is simply a collection of data. I understand some people may feel it's morally wrong of them, but they're not really invading anybody's privacy. And it's not like they'll be viewing any of that data for no reason. Only if your suspicous. Right?