Nvidia Monopolising the market discussion.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

I think AMD has done a fine job with their GPU. Reminding that I have been on green team since forever. But AMD have squeezed more performance out of an older architecture which took nvidia at least 2 generations of architecture to reach. the 390 is still a competitive card.

 

The fury X if you watch hardware chuncks beats the titan X in 4k at more optimised games. TBH I think linus's graphs are a bit dodgy.

that doesn't in no way make your case for nvidia monopolising the market as you claimed.

[AlwaysFSX]

I think AMD has done a fine job with their GPU. Reminding that I have been on green team since forever. But AMD have squeezed more performance out of an older architecture which took nvidia at least 2 generations of architecture to reach. the 390 is still a competitive card.

I'm not sure you understand just how Nvidia's development works... Fermi was a good performer, Kepler was insane. Nvidia crippled their own cards to stay on par with what AMD had to offer so they don't cut out ALL of the "competition." Going to Maxwell from Kepler was just a redesign for power efficiency while still keeping the amazing performance, and they could still put more on a card. AMD's solution is to just throw more of whatever at the problem and hope it works. The architecture hasn't changed in half a decade for the most part, all they've been doing is adding more stream processors to the things.

[Dzzope]

Heres a random graph FOR PROJECT CARS off google images. Not my graph.

As you see AMD are clearly down the bottom

The problem becomes a question of "is this nvidia's fault" or "does AMD drivers suck"

 

At the moment it would appear it's AMD's drivers.. they have not released a WHQL driver since DECEMBER and the other beta drivers they have released have all coincided with nvidia launches and not game launches. Look at games that are under their umbrella in Fury reviews.. the fury sucks hard on titles which are part of their program.. How can they fail so hard at that?

 

Amd launch at computex for the 3xx series and Fury.. "It's an overclockers dream" when the highest I've seen anyone get it is about +120Mhz..

 

Don't believe the hype.. don't believe the marketing BS, both are large corporations that just want your money..

look at reviews of products available when your buying, look at the performance in the game of your choice and compare whats in your budget and then buy the card that fits your needs.

but AMD need to pull their socks up on drivers and game profiles.. they are terrible at the moment (not to say nvidia are perfect by any means)

 

The next year or so will be interesting with a die shrink due and DX 12 which *should* favor AMD.. I just hope they can take advantage and improve their software stack to become competitive again.

[DeepRD]

that doesn't in no way make your case for nvidia monopolising the market as you claimed.

Im just putting everything on the table. Even if there is contradictions. 

[DeepRD]

The problem becomes a question of "is this nvidia's fault" or "does AMD drivers suck"

 

At the moment it would appear it's AMD's drivers.. they have not released a WHQL driver since DECEMBER and the other beta drivers they have released have all coincided with nvidia launches. Look at games that are under their umbrella in Fury reviews.. the fury sucks hard on titles which is part of their program.. How can they fail so hard at that.

 

Amd launch at computex for the 3xx series and Fury.. "It's an overclockers dream" when the highest I've seen anyone get it is about +120Mhz..

 

Don't believe the hype.. don't believe the marketing BS, both are large corporations that just want your money..

look at reviews of products available when your buying, look at the performance in the game of your choice and compare whats in your budget and then buy the card that fits your needs.

but AMD need to pull their socks up on drivers and game profiles.. they are terrible at the moment (not to say nvidia are perfect by any means)

 

The next year or so will be interesting with a die shrink due and DX 12 which *should* favor AMD.. I just hope they can take advantage and improve their software stack to become competitive again.

I agree, but I think AMD are picking up the driver game. Not sure since, as said, I dont own a AMD product

[Grrizz]

I think AMD has done a fine job with their GPU. Reminding that I have been on green team since forever. But AMD have squeezed more performance out of an older architecture which took nvidia at least 2 generations of architecture to reach. the 390 is still a competitive card.

 

The fury X if you watch hardware chuncks beats the titan X in 4k at more optimised games. TBH I think linus's graphs are a bit dodgy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfCb6oiJ6EI

AMD get an A for effort but at the end of the day in the real world its performance that matters you don't buy something because someone put a lot of effort into it you buy something because it does the job you need done the best.

Also on a personal note I find AMDs marketing strategy much worse, at any AMD talk they always bash Nvidia on the flip side you pretty much never see that from Nvidia, I prefer to see people stand on their own merits rather than prop themselves up by pointing out others failings.

[DeepRD]

You aren't really talking about a monopoly, you're talking about Nvidia's strategy to set their product apart from AMD's and attempt to provide additional value beyond the benchmark figures. A monopoly is whole market dominance by a single supplier, which is not even remotely close to the situation. AMD sponsors game development too, and frequently AMD hardware performs better in those titles than it should. AMD also has it's own proprietary features, some of which are cross-platform and some are not.

 

I think if Batman Arkham Knight teaches us anything, it's that Nvidia has far less control over these products than the paranoia and conspiracy theories would suggest. That game doesn't even seem to have SLI working at launch. Most people can forget about using the GameWorks features in it.

Maybe not yet, Gameworks might not have the power to monopolise the market yet. But who knows when will gameworks be so integrated into a game that only nivida based cards can run it. I hope their wouldn't be such time but looking at the trend so far, I just hope nvidia sticks to hardware

[Dzzope]

The architecture hasn't changed in half a decade for the most part, all they've been doing is adding more stream processors to the things.

Thats a bit of an exaggeration to say the least..

GCN launched with the 7970 which was 3.5 years ago and they have made significant improvements to it but not so much as people were hoping / looking for (especially in the performance per watt side).

AMD has it's failings but their hardware isn't as bad as many claim it to be.. Their software side though... thats a different story. They need more regular updates and more efficient management of the teams.

[EpicAdom]

The 960 is not worth it, but you can't be serious that the 970 is a bad choice. It's price/performance is really good compared to other cards (like the 960 and 980)

The 960 is the only option if you want a new card that's relatively cool in that ~$200 price range.

My room would be super hot and uncomfortable if I had a 280 or a 285.

[exyia]

Maybe not yet, Gameworks might not have the power to monopolise the market yet. But who knows when will gameworks be so integrated into a game that only nivida based cards can run it. I hope their wouldn't be such time but looking at the trend so far, I just hope nvidia sticks to hardware

 

man....I can't wait to see you run a business

 

NVidia's best decision WAS that they expanded past hardware

 

yeah, let's just develop desktop GPU's over and over and over and expect our business to grow from the same old stuff year after year in a dwindling market of tablets/mobile

[Dzzope]

I agree, but I think AMD are picking up the driver game. Not sure since, as said, I dont own a AMD product

How can you say that with the unholy F*** up that was the Fury release drivers... sucking at games that your involved in the development for.. Unless of course it's an architectural problem.. Which would just be disaterous for them (unless it fixable and not inherent to the concept)

[AlwaysFSX]

Thats a bit of an exaggeration to say the least..

GCN launched with the 7970 which was 3.5 years ago and they have made significant improvements to it but not so much as people were hoping / looking for (especially in the performance per watt side).

AMD has it's failings but their hardware isn't as bad as many claim it to be.. Their software side though... thats a different story. They need more regular updates and more efficient management of the teams.

I count the time that the architecture has been in development. It may have released three and a half years ago, but it's been in development for at least a year before then.

[DeepRD]

man....I can't wait to see you run a business

 

NVidia's best decision WAS that they expanded past hardware

 

yeah, let's just develop desktop GPU's over and over and over and expect our business to grow from the same old stuff year after year in a dwindling market of tablets/mobile

Yeah, business wise, but im a selfish prick and dont want them to use software to roadblock AMD so they can charge 300AUD for a 960. I'm sure if I ever run a business, I would want all your money so I can afford these nvidia cards.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

Yeah, business wise, but im a selfish prick and dont want them to use software to roadblock AMD so they can charge 300AUD for a 960.

AMD has to a lot more than cutting the prices 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/ocuk-is-cutting-gtx-980ti-prices-across-the-board/

[DeepRD]

AMD has to a lot more than cutting the prices 

http://www.kitguru.net/components/graphic-cards/matthew-wilson/ocuk-is-cutting-gtx-980ti-prices-across-the-board/

I hope the market can say this way so I can grab gpus to feed my upgrading itch without selling all my organs.

[typographie]

Maybe not yet, Gameworks might not have the power to monopolise the market yet. But who knows when will gameworks be so integrated into a game that only nivida based cards can run it. I hope their wouldn't be such time but looking at the trend so far, I just hope nvidia sticks to hardware

 

That would pretty bad business for developers and publishers. AMD may have smaller market share, but it's still in the ~30% range. That's still many millions of dollars of sales lost if games wouldn't run on AMD hardware.

 

Also, what on earth makes you think we're even on the road to that? That's a huge jump in logic from what GameWorks actually does. Most of these games that run poorly on AMD hardware are having serious technical issues, which may have nothing to do with GameWorks. In most cases they will get ironed out with patches or driver updates, one more reason to never buy games at launch.

 

I have to wonder in all these threads where people talk about Nvidia having a "monopoly," what makes you think that would even be allowed? Nvidia could not continue to operate without a competitor in any country with anti-trust laws, which would mean most of the developed world. That would be as bad for them as it would be for AMD.

[Dzzope]

I count the time that the architecture has been in development. It may have released three and a half years ago, but it's been in development for at least a year before then.

No.. they are in development for about 10 years usually. same for nvidia..

 

New architectures that is not revisions...

[AlwaysFSX]

No.. they are in development for about 10 years usually. same for nvidia..

Not really no..There's the concept and throwing ideas out there but it's not actually "in development" until it's getting close to the actual timeframe for it. I can guarantee you Maxwell was not in development a decade ago. Those are just figures that a company would like to hit based on an educated guess with what technology they intend to use based on preliminary numbers.

[DeepRD]

That would pretty bad business for developers and publishers. AMD may have smaller market share, but it's still in the ~30% range. That's still many millions of dollars of sales lost if games wouldn't run on AMD hardware.

 

Also, what on earth makes you think we're even on the road to that? That's a huge jump in logic from what GameWorks actually does. Most of these games that run poorly on AMD hardware are having serious technical issues, which may have nothing to do with GameWorks. In most cases they will get ironed out with patches or driver updates, one more reason to never buy games at launch.

 

I have to wonder in all these threads where people talk about Nvidia having a "monopoly," what makes you think that would even be allowed? Nvidia could not continue to operate without a competitor in any country with anti-trust laws, which would mean most of the developed world. That would be as bad for them as it would be for AMD.

Well see all this hate on AMD Im sure one day AMD will pull a Nokia. But in the phone business there is more than 2 companies. 

[Grrizz]

That would pretty bad business for developers and publishers. AMD may have smaller market share, but it's still in the ~30% range. That's still many millions of dollars of sales lost if games wouldn't run on AMD hardware.

 

Also, what on earth makes you think we're even on the road to that? That's a huge jump in logic from what GameWorks actually does. Most of these games that run poorly on AMD hardware are having serious technical issues, which may have nothing to do with GameWorks. In most cases they will get ironed out with patches or driver updates, one more reason to never buy games at launch.

 

I have to wonder in all these threads where people talk about Nvidia having a "monopoly," what makes you think that would even be allowed? Nvidia could not continue to operate without a competitor in any country with anti-trust laws, which would mean most of the developed world. That would be as bad for them as it would be for AMD.

They could continue to operate but their pricing would be controlled by the respective governments though if they were found to be unfair.

[AlwaysFSX]

Well see all this hate on AMD Im sure one day AMD will pull a Nokia. But in the phone business there is more than 2 companies. 

Get bought by another company to pull their asses out of the hot water so they can survive? I'm vying for IBM or Samsung, either of those will show real gains in technology.

[Grrizz]

Get bought by another company to pull their asses out of the hot water so they can survive? I'm vying for IBM or Samsung, either of those will show real gains in technology.

The bigger issue if that happened is they would loose their x86 licence and Intel would have an instant monopoly on the x86 CPU market.

[DeepRD]

Get bought by another company to pull their asses out of the hot water so they can survive? I'm vying for IBM or Samsung, either of those will show real gains in technology.

Im voting samsung. Many I recently learnt they are F***ing big. They literally own everything. They even designed the burj al khalifa (Samsung Engineering and Construction Company)

[AlwaysFSX]

The bigger issue if that happened is they would loose their x86 licence and Intel would have an instant monopoly on the x86 CPU market.

I'm willing to bet a judge would force Intel to license it for a dollar. Though Intel needs the x86-64 license from AMD so it would work out.

[AlwaysFSX]

Im voting samsung. Many I recently learnt they are F***ing big. They literally own everything. They even designed the burj al khalifa (Samsung Engineering and Construction Company)

Uhm, yeah.. about that.. IBM owns everything. They survive on patent money alone. If they wanted to they could create every technological product you'd ever want to own, but of course there's the obvious legal problems with that.