AMD R9 390X Coming With Cooler Master Liquid Cooler + Estimated Performance

[KamiKatze]

Liquid cooler and 4 GB of VRAM? Eeeeeh.... meh really..... Lets wait for the custom designs...

 

I'm just wondering how AMD allways creates such vulcanos when the technological process should make you think otherwise.

 

Anyways, getting ahead of myself, wait and see. At least the presumable performance looks nice.

[othertomperson]

That's just what Nvidia claims. They have a tendancy to underestimate the tdp of their cards. Guru 3D calculates up to 479 watts http://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/nvidia-geforce-gtx-titan-z-review,7.html

 

That's 479W drawn from the wall, that's a fundamentally different quantity to TDP. TDP is how much of that power is dissipated as heat.

 

And yes it is atrociously bad for one of AMD's GPUs to be dissipating almost the same amount of heat as two of the most powerful GPUs that Nvidia have. If I wanted to pay for an electric heater, I'd buy an electric heater. And offsetting this with an electricity-powered AC like someone suggested is a terrible solution.

 

[Fetzie]

What if those two fans are $30 fans? This is legitimately the first time I've seen someone argue that air cooling is better, usually it's all about the crazy water loops. I suppose this is why you can choose what design you want, this is PC after all.

You're not putting 1500 dollars of hardware (a proper custom loop for GPU and CPU made to look nice as well as be functional, because let's be honest here that's why you do it, is going to run into the realm of ~500-600 dollars) in a case that costs 30 bucks. You can put all the fans you want in a badly designed, cramped case and they still won't be able to move the air around.

[Notional]

That's 479W drawn from the wall, that's a fundamentally different quantity to TDP. TDP is how much of that power is dissipated as heat.

 

And yes it is atrociously bad for one of AMD's GPUs to be dissipating almost the same amount of heat as two of the most powerful GPUs that Nvidia have. If I wanted to pay for an electric heater, I'd buy an electric heater. And offsetting this with an electricity-powered AC like someone suggested is a terrible solution.

 

 

From Guru3D:

We'll be calculating the GPU power consumption here, not the total PC power consumption.

Subjective obtained GPU power consumption = ~ 479 Watts

 

Ehm no, not drawn from the wall. And I do now what TDP is thank you very much.

 

You still cannot call it atrocious, without knowing the performance of the card. If perf/tdp is higher than a Titan Z, you can hardly criticize it?

 

20% less TDP than what Nvidia claims (and they underestimate their own TDP), is hardly the same.

[patrickjp93]

From Guru3D:

 

Ehm no, not drawn from the wall. And I do now what TDP is thank you very much.

 

You still cannot call it atrocious, without knowing the performance of the card. If perf/tdp is higher than a Titan Z, you can hardly criticize it?

 

20% less TDP than what Nvidia claims (and they underestimate their own TDP), is hardly the same.

TDP is thermal design power, or the cooling power required by the thermal dissipation system to keep the chip from thermal throttling.

 

Nvidia does not at all underestimate its TDP. Consumers make the mistake of thinking TDP = power consumption, something totally incorrect. Think of TDP as the sum of each (current^2 * resistance) quantity of every path in the GPU chip circuit at each moment. Current is a function of the amount of power being drawn in and the potentials (voltages) needed across each circuit path). If the resistance of the paths is low enough, even if AMD's chip draws less power, Nvidia's can have a lower TDP due to less heat being discharged per moment by the sum of the quantities I gave earlier. Also be aware this is far oversimplified and doesn't take leakage current or resistance scaling with heat of the circuits into account, but this is beyond what I could reasonably display here, and eventually you'd get lost without a thorough background in electrophysics.

[othertomperson]

From Guru3D:

 

Ehm no, not drawn from the wall. And I do now what TDP is thank you very much.

 

You still cannot call it atrocious, without knowing the performance of the card. If perf/tdp is higher than a Titan Z, you can hardly criticize it?

 

20% less TDP than what Nvidia claims (and they underestimate their own TDP), is hardly the same.

 

You clearly don't know what TDP is because you quoted the part that stated that that was the power consumption of the card, not the heat output. They are not the same thing. Just because they are both measured in Watts (that is, Energy in Joules per second) does not make heat out and electricity in the same thing!

 

The TDP of the Titan Z is clearly a lot lower than the 295X2 because the Titan Z can exist with a triple-slot cooler in a case without throttling. PowerColor proved that the same cannot be said of the 295X2.

 

And it is atrocious. You might not care about how much heat is dumped into your room (or your case if you go aftermarket), you might not care if you can't Crossfire aftermarket versions without them without getting too hot and throttling, or any of the other issues associated with a single GPU dissipating almost the same amount of heat as two Maxwell GPUs in SLI but that is a major factor and, having been in a similar boat with SLI GTX 580s, is not something I would be willing to go back to.

[patrickjp93]

Dude, the liquid does not flow through the .038- .2 mm thin fins in any of those designs.  Imagine how thin those channels would be, and how little pressure it would take to rupture those channels.  You clearly don't know what you are talking about. 

 

Galvanic Corrosion really isn't a problem with aluminum fin and copper pipe radiators because the water never touches the aluminum.  Household AC units have been mixing aluminum and copper even in the piping for forever.  Auto radiators have mixed aluminum and copper in their construction since their inception as well.  And every other radiator style heat exchanger has at one point or another mixed the two metals.  It really isn't as big of a deal as you are making it out to be.

You overestimate the back pressure such a design would create and the rupture risks associated. With so many available paths, much like electricity in a circuit, the liquid will go where there is least resistance until it all equalizes. Much like a dam no part takes any more pressure than another, and the total internal surface area makes your scenario all but impossible.

 

Also, slice into one. You won't find a pipe much below the point of entry.

[Nielips]

It's two 290x'S. Check the powercolor website.

Yeah that's what I meant to put, just missed the X's off.

[patrickjp93]

You clearly don't know what TDP is because you quoted the part that stated that that was the power consumption of the card, not the heat output. They are not the same thing. Just because they are both measured in Watts (that is, Energy in Joules per second) does not make heat out and electricity in the same thing!

 

The TDP of the Titan Z is clearly a lot higher than the 295X2 because the Titan Z can exist with a triple-slot cooler in a case without throttling. PowerColor proved that the same cannot be said of the 295X2.

 

And it is atrocious. You might not care about how much heat is dumped into your room (or your case if you go aftermarket), you might not care if you can't Crossfire aftermarket versions without them without getting too hot and throttling, or any of the other issues associated with a single GPU dissipating almost the same amount of heat as two Maxwell GPUs in SLI but that is a major factor and, having been in a similar boat with SLI GTX 580s, is not something I would be willing to go back to.

revise, Titan Z should be lower, not higher.

[othertomperson]

revise, Titan Z should be lower, not higher.

 

That's what I meant yeah lol

[Khvarrioiren]

Did u just say "only 300w tdp part" ?!

Please give me Nvidia GPU that ON ITS OWN (not full system consumption) eats 300w.

Vram thingy is nice is agree. I just need to see the performance in games or other applications (if it does support other ones).

It clearly destroys 980 but when 390x is out Nvidia will have 1080 coming out and 390x can be forgotten. All depends on pricing really.

TDP doesn't equal power consumption. Get that through your head first.

[othertomperson]

TDP doesn't equal power consumption. Get that through your head first.

 

True, but power consumption must be higher than TDP, so it gives a hand-wavy indication of power consumption. Energy lost as heat, too, is considered wasted, so TDP has a direct relation to efficiency.

[JustCallMeVlad]

"Estimated" Performance.... 

[Real_PhillBert]

Im withholding excitement until we get more reliable information, but this certainly looks promising. 

[mr moose]

I really hope none of you guys get a job as a thermal engineer at nasa. 

 

Why is the shuttle burning up on re entry?  The engineer told me our engines had enough power to handle the thermal loads.

 

/passive aggressive sarcastic attacks.

[Opcode]

I'm hoping that the 395x2 is bundled with a 240mm radiator, and is available this summer. I'm interested in taking advantage of dx12/mantle utilizing dual gpu memory as a single pool, since the plan is to go balls to the walls with 4k. Otherwise, it's two gpus and a custom loop for me.

I imagine they will stick to a 120mm radiator for compatibility and expansion sake. Two of these with a 240mm radiator would take up pretty much every spot in most cases that can accommodate a 240mm radiator. Leaving cooling your CPU with a 240mm radiator out of the question. It gets even worse if you were to triple or quad crossfire them. The R9 295x2 hits about 65C in a 10 minute gaming loop with its single 120mm radiator. I would like to see a nice thick 140mm radiator (Kraken X41) with longer hoses so you can route the radiator to anywhere in the case.

[patrickjp93]

I really hope none of you guys get a job as a thermal engineer at nasa.

Why is the shuttle burning up on re entry? The engineer told me our engines had enough power to handle the thermal loads.

Those engines undergo extensive environmental testing before being used.

[mr moose]

Those engines undergo extensive environmental testing before being used.

 

T'was a joke regarding the confusion people have between power requirements and thermal dissipation requirements.

[patrickjp93]

T'was a joke regarding the confusion people have between power requirements and thermal dissipation requirements.

Internet sarcasm...so difficult...

[mr moose]

Internet sarcasm...so difficult...

fixed it.

[Guest]

i really hope the 390 doesnt make me regret my purchase of the 970...

[Memphaestus]

You overestimate the back pressure such a design would create and the rupture risks associated. With so many available paths, much like electricity in a circuit, the liquid will go where there is least resistance until it all equalizes. Much like a dam no part takes any more pressure than another, and the total internal surface area makes your scenario all but impossible.

 

Also, slice into one. You won't find a pipe much below the point of entry.

• 120 mm x 1 fan Xtreme form factor dual-core radiator
• 158mm x 133mm x 54mm (L x W x H)
• 16 FPI 25 Micron Copper Fins
• Now optimized for sub-800 rpm ultra-stealth fans
• Supercruise optimizations for scalable performance with higher speed fans
• 15% more tubing area in the same Black Ice® GTX™ 120 form factor

That was taken directly from Hardware Labs website on the Black Ice GTX 120.  You really believe that the 25 micron thin copper fins are hollow and water actually flows through them?  Are you really that daft?!

 

The following picture is a cutaway of the Alphacool Nexxos, clearly illustrating where the water pipes are.  In the lower left picture, you can even see that some of the fin sections aren't even attached to the pipes. 

 

This is the EK Coolstream.  Again, the same exact structural design as the above two radiators that you mentioned.  The liquid travels vertically through the pipes, and not through the fins in any way, shape, or form.

 

Again, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Stop stating misinformation as gospel.

[mr moose]

i really hope the 390 doesnt make me regret my purchase of the 970...

 

Judging by the fact we still have nothing official from AMD it will be some time before the actual release and availability of the cards.  Also unless you love to sit right on the bleeding edge of performance the 970 will still be good for a year at least.

[Guest]

Judging by the fact we still have nothing official from AMD it will be some time before the actual release and availability of the cards.  Also unless you love to sit right on the bleeding edge of performance the 970 will still be good for a year at least.

well im getting another one as long as the 290 and 290x dont blow me away so I im fine

[CALUM_54321]

I have my fingers crossed that this series won't so much of a 'fire-spitter' like the 200 series was. There was plenty of performance to be had, but it certainly came at a temperature and power consumption cost. The core counts look very impressive, and hopefully we'll see AMD pull closer to Nvidia in terms of architecture efficiency, but I still think Maxwell might have an edge on that side. Although, if all the memory specifications turn out to be true, the bandwidth will be far above any other card, and that should make all the difference for situations where there are a lot of pixels to push, such as Dell's 5K UP2715K, or 1440p or 4K surround.

 

Also, I just want another pair of beast cards from both teams to go head to head, GTX 980Ti (or Titan 2) vs R9 390X showdown Linus?