AMD R9 390X Coming With Cooler Master Liquid Cooler + Estimated Performance

[Khvarrioiren]

Someone underestimates the cost of raw copper, foundry and molding equipment aside. If you look at the raw cost of copper per ounce, you'd know it's not remotely possible to build a 120x120x25mm rad for less than $35

 

They're aluminium in 95% percent of the cases. All Asetek designs are aluminium, for example.

[bogus]

They're aluminium in 95% percent of the cases. All Asetek designs are aluminium, for example.

Dude even if they were copper solutions, it's no wherenear 50 dollars! 

[Khvarrioiren]

Dude even if they were copper solutions, it's no wherenear 50 dollars! 

 

Well, seeing that 120mm full copper rads are 40 eurobucks alone including VAT, there's not all that much margins left.

[Doobeedoo]

It's just too bad Nvidia couldn't swallow some pride and give Intel some very cheap licensing or simply trade some of their GPU technology in exchange for using their 22nm FF node which is now totally mature and producing the highest performing chips in Intel's line. Especially since GPUs lack much of the complex control circuitry which makes CPUs run so hot, Intel could increase the density beyond what its 22nm normally produces for CPUs. If anyone could have helped Nvidia launch Pascal sooner, it would have been Intel, and then we'd have 2 HBM chips competing by the end of the year.

I'm still curious how come Intel and Nvidia never merged. It seems beneficial to both sides.

[ManWithBeard1990]

Why would they suddenly move from Asetek to Cooler Master?

[mr moose]

I'm still curious how come Intel and Nvidia never merged. It seems beneficial to both sides.

 

Someone might be able to point out cases to the contrary, but in my experience companies only merge when the both companies agree that the economy will not sustain either of them otherwise.  Similarly most companies the size of Nvidia, AMD, Asus etc, are only ever likely to be bought out when they are at risk of going bankrupt if not already.  So an intel/nvidia merger is really not likely.

[othertomperson]

The seidon 120v would be more than enough considering there is ALSO a fan and a bigass heatsink on the card

 

after all, if this was enough for a 295x2, even a slightly thinner aio shouldn't have a problem with a single gpu card...

 

Maybe. Bear in mind what their reputation is with CPUs, though, and consider the fact that it's cooling the equivalent of three of them simultaneously in the 295x2.

[Sauron]

Maybe. Bear in mind what their reputation is with CPUs, though, and consider the fact that it's cooling the equivalent of three of them simultaneously in the 295x2.

 

well, that's exactly my point, if they can cool the 295x2 so well, the 390x shouldn't be a problem.

[othertomperson]

well, that's exactly my point, if they can cool the 295x2 so well, the 390x shouldn't be a problem.

 

Let's hope. I think it bodes ill that they think this is necessary for a single GPU.

[Opcode]

You're aware that changing the cooler does not affect how much heat the GPU emits?

 

Also the stock cooler you are removing from your CPU costs about £3. I think that's a fair enough thing to bundle with it and give you the option of replacing. Who pays for the AIO that AMD are shipping along with the GPU? Are they just going to automatically add £70-£100 onto the price of what is already a £300-£400 product? Or are AMD going to take that out their... lol... profits? If every Intel CPU was bundled with a H110 because it performed well and all consumers were expected to pay for that just because, that would be outrageous. I'm saying this as someone who has and uses a H110 -- it's a ridiculous solution to come as part of the GPU unless it has to be. Which in the case of the 295X2 it did have to be.

The problem at hand is AMD is notoriously bad at creating good air cooling solutions. Look how the R9 290X turned out and now picture how the R9 390X will turn out with an additional 10 watts of thermal output. They probably skipped the bullshit and went with something they cant screw up. It's not only a better cooling solution than air and all around better for the GPU. It also adds to the enthusiast aspect of the card. Meanwhile since AMD is manufacturing thousands of these cards they can get a really good deal on the AIO units. Sure you'll be paying for the added cost of the AIO tho for what AMD buys them for in bulk consumer cost will be next to nothing compared to their retail pricing. As stated in my other posts in this thread there really is no negatives to having an AIO come factory on a GPU.

 

Someone underestimates the cost of raw copper, foundry and molding equipment aside. If you look at the raw cost of copper per ounce, you'd know it's not remotely possible to build a 120x120x25mm rad for less than $35

Copper is only used for the core of the block. Pretty much all radiators that come with AIO units have aluminum fins to keep them affordable.

[Sauron]

Let's hope. I think it bodes ill that they think this is necessary for a single GPU.

 

I seriously hope it's not because it's too hot... shouldn't be though, I think they just know enthusiasts liked the design of the 295x2 a lot and figured they'd bring it on their next single gpu flagship (I'm sure it won't be cheap, I expect 980 level prices for the 390x).

[othertomperson]

The problem at hand is AMD is notoriously bad at creating good air cooling solutions. Look how the R9 290X turned out and now picture how the R9 390X will turn out with an additional 10 watts of thermal output. They probably skipped the bullshit and went with something they cant screw up. It's not only a better cooling solution than air and all around better for the GPU. It also adds to the enthusiast aspect of the card. Meanwhile since AMD is manufacturing thousands of these cards they can get a really good deal on the AIO units. Sure you'll be paying for the added cost of the AIO tho for what AMD buys them for in bulk consumer cost will be next to nothing compared to their retail pricing. As stated in my other posts in this thread there really is no negatives to having an AIO come factory on a GPU.

 

No. The problem with the 290X is that it was a power-hungry beast and generated a lot of heat. The reference cooler should have been sufficient. A 290W TDP is ridiculous. That you're saying that the 390X is going to be even more extreme than that is exactly what I'm talking about. Like holy shit, two of these alone produce more heat than my entire system draws from the wall when benchmarking by the numbers you're suggesting. People talk about the 580 and 480 as being hot cards but they produce 50 - 60W less heat each.

 

I have gone into the negatives that prevent me from ever buying a GPU with an AIO attached. If you can't be bothered to read them that's not my problem, but don't just say that there aren't any.

[Victorious Secret]

Someone might be able to point out cases to the contrary, but in my experience companies only merge when the both companies agree that the economy will not sustain either of them otherwise.  Similarly most companies the size of Nvidia, AMD, Asus etc, are only ever likely to be bought out when they are at risk of going bankrupt if not already.  So an intel/nvidia merger is really not likely.

 

All truth. A merger doesn't benefit either company. Right now their patent libraries keep everything at bay and actually encourage competition. 

Do you guys want Intel buying out Nvidia and it just being Intel v. AMD? Do you want to know how that one ends? It ends with Intel winning. Intel, if they so cared to, could buy out Nvidia and AMD with what they burn on their mobile division alone. You don't want Intel being that powerful, its a detriment. 

One day, Nvidia will phase out and be bought out. But not today. They're plenty strong on their own. 

[patrickjp93]

Uh... I don't underestimate anything - these are off the shelf parts. What you are saying makes sense if they are building a production line, but these parts are being made for years.

Wanna bet I can find you cheaper solutions?

The only way you will find them is through resellers/refurbished/used, guaranteed.

[patrickjp93]

The problem at hand is AMD is notoriously bad at creating good air cooling solutions. Look how the R9 290X turned out and now picture how the R9 390X will turn out with an additional 10 watts of thermal output. They probably skipped the bullshit and went with something they cant screw up. It's not only a better cooling solution than air and all around better for the GPU. It also adds to the enthusiast aspect of the card. Meanwhile since AMD is manufacturing thousands of these cards they can get a really good deal on the AIO units. Sure you'll be paying for the added cost of the AIO tho for what AMD buys them for in bulk consumer cost will be next to nothing compared to their retail pricing. As stated in my other posts in this thread there really is no negatives to having an AIO come factory on a GPU.

 

Copper is only used for the core of the block. Pretty much all radiators that come with AIO units have aluminum fins to keep them affordable.

Not possible. Aluminum and copper react with each other and would flake off in the water over time until the pump was destroyed. You never, ever mix aluminum and copper components in a loop.

[patrickjp93]

Why would they suddenly move from Asetek to Cooler Master?

Because Asetek builds loud coolers and a lot of people complained. Cooler master takes Asetek designs and tweaks them for better performance and noise reduction.

[patrickjp93]

They're aluminium in 95% percent of the cases. All Asetek designs are aluminium, for example.

You can't have a copper block and aluminum fins. It would destroy the entire loop within a year.

[patrickjp93]

I'm still curious how come Intel and Nvidia never merged. It seems beneficial to both sides.

What's more amazing is AMD's Ruiz was too prideful to just merge with Nvidia instead of buying out ATI for far more than it was worth. That was the original plan after all. AMD could have kept GloFo and pursued more die shrinks/sunk more money into R&D and gotten Nvidia's graphics tech for APUs. Yay CUDA+OpenCL APUs with HSA! That would have left Intel to buy up ATI and have strong integrated graphics as well, an arrangement which would have benefitted every consumer.

[bogus]

The only way you will find them is through resellers/refurbished/used, guaranteed.

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/SyscoolingPD120-copper-watercooling-radiator_594875125.html

This was just a quick search, I'm 100% sure I could find even cheaper without negotiation.

And this from someone with no relationship with the supplier.

[BobbyG2]

This card is going to be an absolute monster. I have no qualms with the stock cooler being an aio.

[patrickjp93]

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/SyscoolingPD120-copper-watercooling-radiator_594875125.html

This was just a quick search, I'm 100% sure I could find even cheaper without negotiation.

And this from someone with no relationship with the supplier.

Too bad you can't get it to the US or Europe and stay under $35 Of course you can get things cheaper in China. The question is if you can get it to you and stay under cost. You can't. Care to put in some actual effort?

[mr moose]

I really am not sure about all these comments about ATI being a bad purchase for AMD,  The value of a company at buy out is not restricted to the companies worth right at that set point in time.  AMD would have weighed up future value of ATI's IP and resources.  I really believe at the time it was a good choice, just that a combination of circumstances beyond AMDs control and management that probably should have been more aggressive when Intel pulled all that the compiler crap, meant the money could have been better spent in CPU R+D or investing in server-side hardware.

[Opcode]

I seriously hope it's not because it's too hot... shouldn't be though, I think they just know enthusiasts liked the design of the 295x2 a lot and figured they'd bring it on their next single gpu flagship (I'm sure it won't be cheap, I expect 980 level prices for the 390x).

If the R9 390X is in fact 300w TDP. Then we're talking about temperatures around 55C with an AIO under a stupid heavy load (FurMark). The R9 295x2 design was custom tailored as the blocks had to be interconnected to complete the loop ($$$) which is not necessary for a single GPU. I wouldn't doubt if you tore down a R9 390X you'll find "Cooler Master" printed on the top of the block (assuming they are the ones outsourcing the units). This will reduce cost per unit as these units have been on shelf for a while now (been in production for consumer CPUs). I get a feeling if Cooler Master is providing the units something along the lines of the Seidon 120 will be used as it's both cheap and sufficient.

 

No. The problem with the 290X is that it was a power-hungry beast and generated a lot of heat. The reference cooler should have been sufficient. A 290W TDP is ridiculous. That you're saying that the 390X is going to be even more extreme than that is exactly what I'm talking about. Like holy shit, two of these alone produce more heat than my entire system draws from the wall when benchmarking by the numbers you're suggesting. People talk about the 580 and 480 as being hot cards but they produce 50 - 60W less heat each.

 

I have gone into the negatives that prevent me from ever buying a GPU with an AIO attached. If you can't be bothered to read them that's not my problem, but don't just say that there aren't any.

One thing to grasp is GCN 1.3 may bring some major power improvements. How can the R9 390X be rated at 300w meanwhile having 20 more compute units than the R9 290X at 290w. That's an extra 1280 SP's crammed into an extra 10w. If that's the case then GCN 1.3 has to of seen some major power cuts to keep heat output down that much. Now the thing is AMD stacked on a bunch of extra compute units. So the card is probably going to draw around the same power as the R9 290X. Tho if they didn't and left the shader count at 2816 then the R9 290X equivalent would of been 206w. That's quite a difference at around a 30% improvement in TDP.

 

Not possible. Aluminum and copper react with each other and would flake off in the water over time until the pump was destroyed. You never, ever mix aluminum and copper components in a loop.

Fins don't come in contact with the liquid. They connect to the main channel that runs through the radiator sort of like how heatpipes run through aluminum fins. The amount of copper used in an AIO is really not a whole lot (definitely less than $5 worth). The block core is thin with fins meanwhile the radiator probably uses copper tubing for it's channeling of water. You can buy copper tubing for like $1 a foot.

[totjup5]

This thing better be fast with tdp like that.

[Legion495]

Well seems like AMD is getting their crap together (somewhere). These new GPU's from AMD seem to need a lot power. Well that's the reason to buy bigger PS's. Is there a contract behind that? :huh:  I guess not^^
But I hope they do something(in the near future) about that big heat output. I hope AMD strikes back in every possible way. 

I want Nvidia to get their crap together and do something amazing. I hate them for the 3,5 Gigs. They made a big mistake with that.
I want a brutal GPU war.