New Xbox One Hardware In The Works

[patrickjp93]

The thing is, what guarantee do they have that of happening?

If Microsoft did this, I would most likely see people getting frustrated, and if anything, dropping XBox for a PS4, where they know their console will still play PS4 games in 3 years.

Furthermore, hardware sales are loss leaders for Microsoft anyway. They make money off games, not consoles. Making a mandatory revised hardware that will raise the bar will do nothing more then frustrate their customer base.

You're thinking like they're trying to sell to PC Gamers. We're not the right demographic for this. To Console Gamers, the console is an appliance, not a computer. They want it to "just work", otherwise they'd build a kickass gaming PC.

That was true of the 360. Xbox 1 makes money. $300 in, 400 back.

[dalekphalm]

That was true of the 360. Xbox 1 makes money. $300 in, 400 back.

Yes they make a small amount of money, but it would take a fairly long while to get a payback from the R&D costs necessary to increase performance. They're already having issues with adoption (PS4 outselling it like crazy accord to the news).

 

Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to afford to put in enough hardware to make a big enough difference. What do you think they would upgrade? They won't drop an R9 290x into it (Although fuck that'd be awesome if they could cool it without throttling). If anything, they'd just put a bigger APU inside. At best, we might see the same GPU performance as the PS4.

 

And then if they did that, then it would increase the BOM again, and they'd make even less money, plus the additional cost of R&D.

 

It just makes no sense from a business perspective to do this. The benefits (which you've mentioned - and I agree, those would be benefits) do not outweigh the negatives.

[Techhog]

OP and several other people here, I don't think you guys know how consoles work. Making it more powerful would be making an entirely new console, not a revision.

[KenJimmY]

why should we care ? .. PC's FTW

[dragosudeki]

OP and several other people here, I don't think you guys know how consoles work. Making it more powerful would be making an entirely new console, not a revision.

I think you're somewhat correct perhaps. Maybe they'll just make a 20nm equilavence of the current hardware in xbox one and just make a slim version? Would be pretty neat if we can see a console thats as big as that gigabyte box.

[Techhog]

I think you're somewhat correct perhaps. Maybe they'll just make a 20nm equilavence of the current hardware in xbox one and just make a slim version? Would be pretty neat if we can see a console thats as big as that gigabyte box.

Yes, that's what revisions usually are. Smaller and more efficient.

[ACatWithThumbs]

If they use faster memory that's a performance change. 

It won't use faster memory.

They will do what they always do make it more efficient shrink it and reduce the cost and size.

Upgrading memory would do literally nothing since the GPU is just to slow.

 

[Techhog]

It won't use faster memory.

They will do what they always do make it more efficient shrink it and reduce the cost and size.

Upgrading memory would do literally nothing since the GPU is just to slow.

In what universe is the R7 260 not bottlenecked by DDR3?

[MEC-777]

OP and several other people here, I don't think you guys know how consoles work. Making it more powerful would be making an entirely new console, not a revision.

 

I never said they were making it more powerful in the OP.

 

I said it was new/revised hardware and that they were exploring other memory type options.

 

It won't use faster memory.

They will do what they always do make it more efficient shrink it and reduce the cost and size.

Upgrading memory would do literally nothing since the GPU is just to slow.

 

 

The DDR3 in the Xbox One is one of it's main bottlenecks.

[Techhog]

I never said they were making it more powerful in the OP.

I said it was new/revised hardware and that they were exploring other memory type options.

The DDR3 in the Xbox One is one of it's main bottlenecks.

Changing memory would fall into that category.

[MEC-777]

Changing memory would fall into that category.

 

I don't know if they are doing that for certain (in fact I highly doubt it). I only mentioned it because the article mentioned MS might be looking into it, but that doesn't mean they are for sure. It's just speculation.

[ACatWithThumbs]

In what universe is the R7 260 not bottlenecked by DDR3?

The R7-260 is faster than the XboxOne.

Most low end cards don't have more bandwidth than the XboxOne a GTX750ti has just 11GB/s more than the XboxOne.

They would get at best 3-4fps out of better memory which is simply useless.

It wouldn't help to run games at 60fps nor 1080p.

 

The DDR3 in the Xbox One is one of it's main bottlenecks.

No it's not it has 68GB/s bandwidth that's barely any slower than 128bit GDRR5 that you find on comparable GPUs.

The bottleneck is the GPU itself which is just reaaaaaaallly slow.

1,39Tflops was even low end in 2009.

The Ps4 has just as slow memory as the XboxOne its GPU has also around 10GB/s less than what is normal for such a GPU.

[patrickjp93]

Yes they make a small amount of money, but it would take a fairly long while to get a payback from the R&D costs necessary to increase performance. They're already having issues with adoption (PS4 outselling it like crazy accord to the news).

 

Not to mention that they wouldn't be able to afford to put in enough hardware to make a big enough difference. What do you think they would upgrade? They won't drop an R9 290x into it (Although fuck that'd be awesome if they could cool it without throttling). If anything, they'd just put a bigger APU inside. At best, we might see the same GPU performance as the PS4.

 

And then if they did that, then it would increase the BOM again, and they'd make even less money, plus the additional cost of R&D.

 

It just makes no sense from a business perspective to do this. The benefits (which you've mentioned - and I agree, those would be benefits) do not outweigh the negatives.

The PS4 outsells microsoft because the Halo crowd is FINALLY dying off. Microsoft doesn't have any other hallmark game series to call on for a fanbase. Sony has the likes of Square Enix still yanking in tons of people for the FF series and Kingdom Hearts. You also have The GTA players. For Sony it makes sense. Microsoft, eh...You have a point for them. Or, Microsoft could just release a better console...

[patrickjp93]

The R7-260 is faster than the XboxOne.

Most low end cards don't have more bandwidth than the XboxOne a GTX750ti has just 11GB/s more than the XboxOne.

They would get at best 3-4fps out of better memory which is simply useless.

It wouldn't help to run games at 60fps nor 1080p.

 

No it's not it has 68GB/s bandwidth that is barely any slower than 128bit GDRR5 that you find on comparable GPUs.

The bottleneck is the GPU itself which is just reaaaaaaallly slow.

1,39Tflops was even low end in 2009.

The Ps4 has just as slow memory as the XboxOne its GPU has also around 10GB/s less than what is normal for such a GPU.

You have to remember GDDR is also designed to move huge chunks of data at once. DDR3 can only move 8 bytes at once. GDDR can move 32. The theoretical bandwidth may be the same, but the actual bandwidth of GDDR5 is much higher than DDR3.

 

You're also exaggerating on 1.39TFlops being low-end in 09. Given 2.88 was the bleeding edge, that puts 1.29 as just on the falling edge of average.

[MEC-777]

The R7-260 is faster than the XboxOne.

Most low end cards don't have more bandwidth than the XboxOne a GTX750ti has just 11GB/s more than the XboxOne.

They would get at best 3-4fps out of better memory which is simply useless.

It wouldn't help to run games at 60fps nor 1080p.

 

No it's not. it has 68GB/s bandwidth that is barely any slower than 128bit GDRR5 that you find on comparable GPUs.

The bottleneck is the GPU itself which is just reaaaaaaallly slow.

1,39Tflops was even low end in 2009.

The Ps4 has just as slow memory as the XboxOne its GPU has also around 10GB/s less than what is normal for such a GPU.

 

No, it's not that simple.

 

You have to remember GDDR is also designed to move huge chunks of data at once. DDR3 can only move 8 bytes at once. GDDR can move 32. The theoretical bandwidth may be the same, but the actual bandwidth of GDDR5 is much higher than DDR3.

 

^This. He beat me to it.

 

Even the really low-end sub $100 GPUs perform demonstrably better with GDDR5 Vram vs. GDDR3 Vram.

[MEC-777]

Pre orderers are gonna be pissed.

 

It's to be expected at some point. Nearly every console over the last several generations had "slim" versions released later on. With this gen, it was a given. I think a lot of people probably didn't expect it this soon after initial release, however.

[ACatWithThumbs]

You have to remember GDDR is also designed to move huge chunks of data at once. DDR3 can only move 8 bytes at once. GDDR can move 32. The theoretical bandwidth may be the same, but the actual bandwidth of GDDR5 is much higher than DDR3.

 

You're also exaggerating on 1.39TFlops being low-end in 09. Given 2.88 was the bleeding edge, that puts 1.29 as just on the falling edge of average.

While that is true it is getting accounted in the GB/s normal DRR3 on PC is waaaaay slower than what's on the XboxOne because of that mentioned fact.

A good example is the GTX745 it has only 28GB/s and that is the fastest DRR3 on a GPU in the 700 series.

 

[patrickjp93]

While that is true it is getting accounted in the GB/s normal DRR3 on PC is waaaaay slower than what's on the XboxOne because of that mentioned fact.

A good example is the GTX745 it has only 28GB/s and that is the fastest DRR3 on a GPU in the 700 series.

 

Um, not remotely true. The XBox One DDR3 is not even close to 2800MHz. And GDDR3 is not equivalent to DDR3. It can still move 24 bytes at once instead of 8 per call on DDR3. I'm unaware of what DDR4 can do, but I suspect it's moved up to 12 bytes or 16 given the extra pins and people claiming performance hits from increased CAS Latency aren't appearing.

[deathjester]

I REALLY hope they change up the memory to DDR4 so they can at least match the performance of the PS4. Even if it costs a bit more, if this makes it a stronger platform that actually can run [some] games at 1080p/60fps, that's enough to justify the higher price, IMO. Wishful thinking, I know. :rolleyes:

 

Source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-smaller-cheaper-cooler-xbox-one-processor-in-development

 

Not gonna happen. There is nothing special about DDR4 other than power savings and the ability to use massive amounts on a motherboard (non gaming related) atm, and lower latency ram is better for CPU, which is what MS targeted with their console. AKA more than just playing a game on full screen.

 

PS4 is weaker on the CPU due to the high bandwidth high latency ram, but better on GPU.

 

You can't upgrade a console post release and to use memory more like PS4 would harm things the XB1 is sold as doing (multitasking). You can shrink dies, size and add storage and that is about it.

 

Basically this means Xbox One can be smaller and draw a little less power. That is about it. Means nothing as far as gameplay, performance.

[MEC-777]

Not gonna happen. There is nothing special about DDR4 other than power savings and the ability to use massive amounts on a motherboard (non gaming related) atm, and lower latency ram is better for CPU, which is what MS targeted with their console. AKA more than just playing a game on full screen.

 

PS4 is weaker on the CPU due to the high bandwidth high latency ram, but better on GPU.

 

You can't upgrade a console post release and to use memory more like PS4 would harm things the XB1 is sold as doing (multitasking). You can shrink dies, size and add storage and that is about it.

 

Basically this means Xbox One can be smaller and draw a little less power. That is about it. Means nothing as far as gameplay, performance.

 

Yes, I understand all that. Again, that's why I said, "wishful thinking, I know.".

[patrickjp93]

Not gonna happen. There is nothing special about DDR4 other than power savings and the ability to use massive amounts on a motherboard (non gaming related) atm, and lower latency ram is better for CPU, which is what MS targeted with their console. AKA more than just playing a game on full screen.

 

PS4 is weaker on the CPU due to the high bandwidth high latency ram, but better on GPU.

 

You can't upgrade a console post release and to use memory more like PS4 would harm things the XB1 is sold as doing (multitasking). You can shrink dies, size and add storage and that is about it.

 

Basically this means Xbox One can be smaller and draw a little less power. That is about it. Means nothing as far as gameplay, performance.

Given there's 48 more pins, it wouldn't surprise me if they finally moved to being able to transfer more than 8 bytes per call (which is all you currently can get).

[Makol]

I just hope the revised Xbox Uno is quieter. My launch model is louder than both my PS4 and Wii U...

 

and a 1TB hard drive would be nice too 

[patrickjp93]

I just hope the revised Xbox Uno is quieter. My launch model is louder than both my PS4 and Wii U...

 

and a 1TB hard drive would be nice too 

Only 1 TB? 2 should be a minimum considering they make you store 60GB games locally.

[dalekphalm]

Only 1 TB? 2 should be a minimum considering they make you store 60GB games locally.

I think if they release the "base" model with 1TB, that'd be plenty. The first XBox 360 I had came with a 20GB HDD. Downloadable games weren't that popular back then, but even with DLC it filled up pretty quick.

 

Additionally, you can plug in USB 3.0 external drives (Mechanical HDDs or SSDs) as long as they are 250GB or larger (weird requirement, but alright, not a problem anyway for someone who wants to use a 4TB drive for example). The XBox OS allows seamless integration, and you can download and install both games AND apps to the external drive.

 

It's unfortunate that apparently you still can't swap out the internal HDD (that I've read, anyway), but with the External being functional enough, there's no problem there.

[Argent]

I'd like to point out that this is all conjecture based on a single person's (granted a senior manager) Linkedin page.  Neither AMD nor MS has confirmed that anything.  So no one should get excited just yet.