Two Year Sentence For 3D Print a Gun.

[cae]

The mental gymnastics some of you do in attempts to justify this in your minds is both saddening and frightening.

 

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance204.html

 

Even if all he did was download someone's design, print it, and test it himself, that was the extent of his actions. Instead of leaving him alone with the opportunity to utilize those curiosities and flourish, the government instead decided to kidnap him for two years.

[Real_PhillBert]

Beacuse without regulations, things will go bananas.. That's the whole point with laws...

But you won't ever be able to control someones doing, so it is bound to happen.

It's just how things work, nothing is black and white.

EDIT:

What he said:

But what Trik said is completely contradictory to your statement, "Because without regulations, things will go bananas.."

 

You admit that laws dont prevent crime but also say that laws are what is preventing society from going "bananas" so which is it? do laws work or not?

[Trik'Stari]

The mental gymnastics some of you do in attempts to justify this in your minds is both saddening and frightening.

 

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance204.html

 

Even if all he did was download someone's design, print it, and test it himself, that was the extent of his actions. Instead of leaving him alone with the opportunity to utilize those curiosities and flourish, the government instead decided to kidnap him for two years.

[Eyal]

The mental gymnastics some of you do in attempts to justify this in your minds is both saddening and frightening.

 

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance204.html

 

Even if all he did was download someone's design, print it, and test it himself, that was the extent of his actions. Instead of leaving him alone with the opportunity to utilize those curiosities and flourish, the government instead decided to kidnap him for two years.

There's no difference between this and building it with a CNC. If you don't take him to prison, what will deter others from doing the same?

Remember that in Japan, you're not allowed to possess a firearm, not for testing, not for curiosity, not for self defense.

[MonkeyButt]

It would just fall apart after one pathetic shot anyway a spudgun would do a better job

[XzzDSA]

But what Trik said is completely contradictory to your statement, "Because without regulations, things will go bananas.."

 

You admit that laws dont prevent crime but also say that laws are what is preventing society from going "bananas" so which is it? do laws work or not?

Alright.

 

If it is alowed to kill someone, will more murders occur? My intuition says, proberly yes.

If it is not alowed to kill someone, will less murders occur? My intuition says, proberly no.

 

Either way it is bound to happen when you can't control someones doing.

The proberbility is (from my perspective) undoubtebly lower.

Nothing is black and white.

Obviously noone wants to say something and then disagree with one self afterwerds.

Our statements are not conflicting. They are not opposite of eachother - they explain  the same issue from two different perspectives.

 

[suicidalfranco]

i say good for Japan for applying the law, now carry on

[Real_PhillBert]

Alright.

 

If it is alowed to kill someone, will more murders occur? My intuition says, proberly yes.

If it is not alowed to kill someone, will less murders occur? My intuition says, proberly no.

 

Either way it is bound to happen when you can't control someones doing.

The proberbility is (from my perspective) undoubtebly lower.

Nothing is black and white.

Obviously noone wants to say something and then disagree with one self afterwerds.

Our statements are not conflicting. They are not opposite of eachother - they explain  the same issue from two different perspectives.

 

But murder is illegal regardless of whether or not you can own/make your own firearms. So with that in mind why does regulating CNC equipment which could be used to make a firearm that could be used to harm someone, improve the situation?

[deviant88]

With japan having the second highest average internet speed at 12.8MB/s or 102.4Mb/s, i'm right with you.

dudes im with you japan is my favorite place with all its goods and bads theres no other place on earth where i would have loved being born and live other than japanu, maybe germany cause no speed autobahn hahaha

good thing they banned guns i hope more countries follow a gun holds too much power one day a person may be perfectly sane other day he might be a total lunatic and go on rampage killing better no guns,just looking at 'merican police gun abuse makes me puke

[MagnetSh0CK]

God I hate gun right arguments. If you live in America enjoy the freedom, if you don't, keep being jealous. The Bill of rights can't be changed people need to GET USED TO IT, everyone has loved guns for 224 years idk what happened.

[Trik'Stari]

Alright.

 

If it is alowed to kill someone, will more murders occur? My intuition says, proberly yes.

If it is not alowed to kill someone, will less murders occur? My intuition says, proberly no.

 

Either way it is bound to happen when you can't control someones doing.

The proberbility is (from my perspective) undoubtebly lower.

Nothing is black and white.

Obviously noone wants to say something and then disagree with one self afterwerds.

Our statements are not conflicting. They are not opposite of eachother - they explain  the same issue from two different perspectives.

 

So basically, from what you just said, you are FOR taking away a persons capability to protect themselves? Yes, firearms are use for murder, but by your very logic, murders will still occur (and do still occur), thus, the only people being punished, are those who simply wish to be able to defend themselves.

 

It is worth noting that (according to wikipedia) "crime in Japan is lower than in all other industrialized nations"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Japan

Which is not surprising considering that it's japan.

 

God I hate gun right arguments. If you live in America enjoy the freedom, if you don't, keep being jealous. The Bill of rights can't be changed people need to GET USED TO IT, everyone has loved guns for 224 years idk what happened.

What happened is that the socialists have turned a hell of a lot of people in to fear whipped sissies that don't realize they are just as much fear mongers as they would claim fox news is.

 

You'd be surprised how many emails/text messages I get a month from my local community college (that I no longer attend because I found a better college) saying "person with gun sighted, police responding, shelter in place" it's freaking sad, in a country where gun ownership isn't just allowed, but a human right, people are terrified of someone with a gun, even if it's someone just carrying one in a holster, well within the bounds of the law.

 

Edit: By the way, they never find the person with the gun (or so it seems) and nothing ever actually has happened, at least not yet anyways.

[Real_PhillBert]

God I hate gun right arguments. If you live in America enjoy the freedom, if you don't, keep being jealous. The Bill of rights can't be changed people need to GET USED TO IT, everyone has loved guns for 224 years idk what happened.

This story is from Japan. The US bill of rights does not apply.

[XzzDSA]

It's obviously difficult having a discussion when the parties of different perspectives does not want to listen what the others have to say.

And to get back on topic - Laws are laws.. If you break them you get punished.
Wether someone agree with another countrys laws is something that person can speculate about. It will not change that the government are enforcing what they should enforce. And he got what he proberly deserved with the confinements of japanese society.

Over and out.

[landon418]

If you ban guns from citizens, criminals will still find ways to get them.  Gotta have guns down in the sticks where I live to hunt, defend yo family, zombies, target shooting etc.

[MagnetSh0CK]

This story is from Japan. The US bill of rights does not apply.

I'm addressing the other posts (you may not have seen) that compare the U.S. and Japan. Honestly the story is horrifying to me, in the states anyone can make a gun as long as that individual uses it and doesn't sell it. So individual freedoms are at risk here, the government shouldn't worry about one citizen when it doesn't affect another.

[Joppsta]

Going to preface this by saying I'm from the UK. I watch gun channels on YouTube as I find it to be an interesting hobby and if I could, I'd probably own a firearm myself. For recreational purposes purely.

 

The best way to describe why there are so many firearm homicides or just homicides in general in the USA when compared to Japan is most likely education and upbringing. Let's just ignore firearm's homicides and talk about them collectively for a second here though. What do nations with high murder rates compared to ones with low murder rates have in common? Education system and the wealth of the people, I would say, are the two root causes.

 

 

To put it into layman's terms I guess... guns don't kill people, people kill people. And if people didn't have a gun to shoot someone with, they'd get a knife. No knife? They'd use their bare fists. Does a gun or knife make it easier to kill someone? Sure it does. But what does banning it for law abiding citizens do? Just creates a black market.

 

I find it kinda ironic that it's the left leaning people that are usually anti-gun, least in the USA. I mean, they are pro-drug but anti-gun... and the argument they use is the one I just stated.. that banning drugs makes a black market etc.

 

 

All I know is, people are fucked up and at the end of the day the best way to combat crime is to be pro-active and go for the root of the issue, aka, the people. Banning something doesn't change the fact that Jimmy over here wants to put Timmy over here in a wooden box.

[cae]

There's no difference between this and building it with a CNC. If you don't take him to prison, what will deter others from doing the same?

Remember that in Japan, you're not allowed to possess a firearm, not for testing, not for curiosity, not for self defense.

 

What deters others from doing the same even after they've taken him to prison? Those that would do the same have learned to not upload their findings to YouTube. I would argue that making an example out of someone doesn't work, given the prevalence of recreational drug use today and laws forbidding it. I understand it's a different place that doesn't value freedom the same way I do (same with many posters here), but "Because master says so!" isn't a good enough reason for me. That's just my personal take on it; doesn't make it right or wrong.

[TheCyncialCanuck]

Everyone's law-abiding until the trigger is pulled.

So I guess you want to put people in jail before they commit crimes too?

[jacobs4525]

And how is this a bad thing? They found more guns at his flat... Today it would be a lot conventional to 3D print a gun and kill someone with it than taking a real gun... If I was at the head of the goverment I would completely prohibit any type of fire arms... Japan is doing the right thing.... 15 murders in Japan 2012? Now look at USA, what does it say about the people and the goverment who are allowing all the weapons for civil use?

Exactly this. Call it restriction, but it really works.

[Weak1ings]

For those who say that Guns are bad and should not be allowed in the hands of people consider this?
If you outlaw guns, Who will have guns?  The Law abiding citizen or the Outlaw?  The Outlaw of course and now since guns are outlawed, a gangster can go around robbing houses and assaulting people without fear of immediate response.  It takes (guess) .05seconds for a gun to stop a intruder, on average it takes 3 minutes for a Officer to arrive at your house.

Now for the REAL reason to own a firearm.

How many countries with dictators allow people to own firearms?  0.
What is the Largest army in the world?  The People of the United States.
Who is the government supposed to serve? The People it governs
What is the duty of the People when the government fails to serve the people and is a form of Tyranny? Reboot the Government with a new "OS" to serve the people.

Guns are Only bad in the hands of bad people.  Why do we want to take away guns for killings when cars, drugs, and knifes already kill people...

[Suika]

Now look at USA, what does it say about the people and the goverment who are allowing all the weapons for civil use?

Lmao, you're spouting bullshit for argument's sake.

 

Guns are not the direct causation of crime rates. They've actually shown to be a prevention in the US. The more guns that have been flooding in, the less crimes are being reported.

 

Not to mention, Japan is culturally different, massively so if I may add. You're comparing a Ferrari to a GTX 980, it makes no sense. Just because one number or variable is different between the two doesn't mean it's a direct cause of why one can reach 200MPH and why the other can't.

 

EDIT: But that isn't to mention; If Japan has things right, they don't need to change it. I'd rather live in a safer country without a gun, I'll be completely honest about that, but you can't go comparing one simple fact between two objects as to why they are so vastly different. There are thousands of differences between the two countries, it's not even funny.

[Trik'Stari]

Lmao, you're spouting bullshit for argument's sake.

 

Guns are not the direct causation of crime rates. They've actually shown to be a prevention in the US. The more guns that have been flooding in, the less crimes are being reported.

 

Not to mention, Japan is culturally different, massively so if I may add. You're comparing a Ferrari to a GTX 980, it makes no sense. Just because one number or variable is different between the two doesn't mean it's a direct cause of why one can reach 200MPH and why the other can't.

 

EDIT: But that isn't to mention; If Japan has things right, they don't need to change it. I'd rather live in a safer country without a gun, I'll be completely honest about that, but you can't go comparing one simple fact between two objects as to why they are so vastly different. There are thousands of differences between the two countries, it's not even funny.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Japan is far ahead of the rest of the world in most ways, they have a generally polite society (to my knowledge) that stresses an honor system (again to my knowledge) and that goes a hell of a long way to effecting how people act.

 

It's not just laws, it's culture. We here in the states have so many problems because 

a. We don't have a coherent and prevailing culture

b. We have little to no respect for human life

c,. We generally have an "I want it, therefore I'm entitled to it/deserve it/need it/must have it" attitude. (although I guess this could be described as a coherent and prevailing culture? not sure). We have this attitude that just because someone has more than us, then we deserve more for having less, we've abandoned the idea that people have to earn things for themselves, rather than everything just being handed to them because of some fictional wrong-doing they've suffered as a result of their birth.

 

At least that's what I see, not to mention massive amounts of poverty due to financial instability as a result of the government constantly fucking with things and corporations responding in kind.

[mr moose]

It all comes down to honor and respect, if everybody had honor and respect for other people then there would be no need for laws of any description.  The fact we need laws that force us to treat others as we would if we respected them is very telling of human nature.  Basically we are intrinsically greedy and this is why we can't have nice things.   You can;t blame the criminals, you can't blame the law makers, you can't blame the lobbyists. it all comes back to human nature.  Banning guns is just an extension of all other laws that seek to enforce behaviour that would otherwise come from respect.

[Trik'Stari]

It all comes down to honor and respect, if everybody had honor and respect for other people then there would be no need for laws of any description.  The fact we need laws that force us to treat others as we would if we respected them is very telling of human nature.  Basically we are intrinsically greedy and this is why we can't have nice things.   You can;t blame the criminals, you can't blame the law makers, you can't blame the lobbyists. it all comes back to human nature.  Banning guns is just an extension of all other laws that seek to enforce behaviour that would otherwise come from respect.

[RuKiddin06]

How does that make sense? Gun is a gun, and a 3d printed gun is still a gun... Both are dangerous, and should be extremely prohibited and only used in Army.

In a country where gun control laws seem to be working, restricting them to law enforcement is ok. I do see japans reasoning for this: with their culture, it works. However, in some countries (*cough* USA *cough*) it won't. In the US constitution it grants us the right to own weapons, fire arms included. The idea is that if anyone who wants to be armed can be, then cumulatively we are safer, as there can only be so many "bad guys" (thieves, murderers, gang members, drug dealers / cartel members) and the "good guys" (law abiding, society contributing, normal, citizens) out number the bad. Why place restrictions that hurt the law abiding citizens, when the thieves and other criminals are going to have guns regardless of laws.

 

I'm not saying every one should own a gun, and I think that if you are going to own a gun, you need to know how to safely, and EFFECTIVELY:  use, handle, store and maintain a gun. 

 

Its the same idea with coding. If you did not know, there are people USA, that think that code should not be taught in schools, as "it gives kids the tools necessary to become hackers." (I kid you not, someone I talked to said that, and she was not alone in her opinion, other also chimed in saying similar things.)

 

Having knowledge, or tools that someone else does not have, give you a position of power over them. These peoples reaction to the hackers (equivalent to "cyber thieves") was to try and limit the available ways to learn to code and hack, just as your reaction to guns is to limit the available ways to buy, get or make a gun. Any one who wants to learn programming can learn programming. Any one who wants to have a gun, can get a gun. whether they make it, or buy it legally or illegally, they can do it. 

 

Edit: fixed errors

 

 

 

on a side note, I wonder how many of the undue gun deaths world wide (as in, NOT when a civilian / police officer who shoots the thief) are committed with illegally owned guns.