Two Year Sentence For 3D Print a Gun.

[patrickjp93]

A gun is one of those things that in the hands of a good person is no threat to anyone, and any law trying to control it only pulls it from the hands of that good person.

No one is a good person. Moot point. By your idiotic argument, why regulate explosives? Why regulate atomic/nuclear materials? Everyone's fine, right? You fall into the category of simple-minded. Look up reductio ad absurdum, which is the technique I just used to prove your argument is invalid based on its inability to be applicable to any case.

 

Gun control exists to ensure it doesn't become easy for criminals to obtain severely deadly weapons. Most citizens can't properly use them anyway. Maybe if everyone was required to take a gun safety certification program? Oh, but that apparently violates your freedom? How about my freedom of safety to make sure you don't blow out my shoulder because you're a lousy shot?

[WolfDeville]

Large portion of US population? By what metric? Compared to who?

 

Yes a gun can do many things, and the really crazy thing is for the VAST MAJORITY of people their owning a gun is ZERO danger to you.

 

So why do you insist on initiating force, selectively enforcing, and oppressing decent people, over the subject of guns? Even your idea of a ban allows the government and its cohorts to possess, and the very people you fear giving guns are the people who gravitate to those fields, who have the idea to force such laws upon the people they should be championing, and far more people have been murdered by their governments in recent history than any other cause.

 

So the moral argument is NOT that the common man should be disarmed, but any group that would assume to govern should be disarmed.

 Well I don't have time for a debate, let's just say you have your beliefs/opinions and I have mine.

[pwuest]

For anyone here that is saying guns are "bad" and "dangerous" you're obviously uneducated and very clouded by the media and what everyone else has to say that has probably never been around guns their whole life. I for one have been around them my whole life and haven't felt the slightest bit in danger. Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous. The focus should be on people not the inanimate piece of metal that is perfectly harmless. The reporters from the big magazines and news shows that have only seen guns on cops waists that write about guns being bad have no business doing so. They know nothing about guns and have no reason talking about them. They couldnt tell me a bolt from a cartridge and they have the nerve to write a 4 paragraph article on how guns are bad? This also goes for anyone on this thread that is bashing guns. Its a shame that a small (idiotic) few can ruin everything for the bunch. Truely a shame of what this country is turing into.

[mach]

No one is a good person. Moot point. By your idiotic argument, why regulate explosives? Why regulate atomic/nuclear materials? Everyone's fine, right? You fall into the category of simple-minded. Look up reductio ad absurdum, which is the technique I just used to prove your argument is invalid based on its inability to be applicable to any case.

Agree

You must have heard news about husband and wife attack each other over a fight or argument right?

Even people who suppose to love each other may do harm when they are mad

These things happen in my country too. But the story may differ from those in USA

Usually one attacks the other with his/her bare hand, or grabbing a knife

The other one then escaped and screamed for help

police then come, everything is settled

In gun-legal country? I think most likely someone will be killed

[patrickjp93]

For anyone here that is saying guns are "bad" and "dangerous" you're obviously uneducated and very clouded by the media and what everyone else has to say that has probably never been around guns their whole life. I for one have been around them my whole life and haven't felt the slightest bit in danger. Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous. The focus should be on people not the inanimate piece of metal that is perfectly harmless. The reporters from the big magazines and news shows that have only seen guns on cops waists that write about guns being bad have no business doing so. They know nothing about guns and have no reason talking about them. They couldnt tell me a bolt from a cartridge and they have the nerve to write a 4 paragraph article on how guns are bad? This also goes for anyone on this thread that is bashing guns. Its a shame that a small (idiotic) few can ruin everything for the bunch. Truely a shame of what this country is turing into.

People can be stopped. A gun makes you unstoppable in a normal situation if you have any level of experience using it. It's not the great equalizer. You and the NRA shills need to step back and look at the damage you have done and the lives you have cost with your ideology, zealotry, and egotism. Guns make everything worse. People aren't good, and inventing more killing tools helps no one. If you want to be helpful, go get Armageddon started or pull an archangel out of the skies to fix everything. The elegance and nobility of war was lost the moment ranged weaponry was conceived. It's only an enabling force for cowards and the arrogant. Being able to kill from a distance is what allows psychopaths to go on killing sprees. How many serial killers do ou hear about these days who strangle/knife their victims? It's in the low double digits.

[cae]

No one is a good person. Moot point. By your idiotic argument, why regulate explosives? Why regulate atomic/nuclear materials? Everyone's fine, right? You fall into the category of simple-minded. Look up reductio ad absurdum, which is the technique I just used to prove your argument is invalid based on its inability to be applicable to any case.

 

Gun control exists to ensure it doesn't become easy for criminals to obtain severely deadly weapons. Most citizens can't properly use them anyway. Maybe if everyone was required to take a gun safety certification program? Oh, but that apparently violates your freedom? How about my freedom of safety to make sure you don't blow out my shoulder because you're a lousy shot?

 

I can't handle all this projection.

[mach]

For anyone here that is saying guns are "bad" and "dangerous" you're obviously uneducated and very clouded by the media and what everyone else has to say that has probably never been around guns their whole life. I for one have been around them my whole life and haven't felt the slightest bit in danger. Guns are not dangerous. People are dangerous. The focus should be on people not the inanimate piece of metal that is perfectly harmless. The reporters from the big magazines and news shows that have only seen guns on cops waists that write about guns being bad have no business doing so. They know nothing about guns and have no reason talking about them. They couldnt tell me a bolt from a cartridge and they have the nerve to write a 4 paragraph article on how guns are bad? This also goes for anyone on this thread that is bashing guns. Its a shame that a small (idiotic) few can ruin everything for the bunch. Truely a shame of what this country is turing into.

In the same way you probably haven't been living in a true safe place.

People love talking about how guns can protect their families from harm

In my country it's not a concern at all. People don't even think about it. Because they simply don't have to.

 

BTW, not looking for a debate here. If those many anti-gun campaigns can't convince you I don't think I could on a forum.

Just wanna tell you there are very peaceful and well ordered places where people don't have to worry much about their lives.

[Redliub]

unless you want to rush someone with a gun wielding a knife

FWIW that probably results in less death.

[cae]

 

These people look like they're having so much fun. I'd love to go shooting with them. Makes me love Arizona a little bit more.

[patrickjp93]

These people look like they're having so much fun. I'd love to go shooting with them. Makes me love Arizona a little bit more.

I've been shot at 3 times in AZ just for needing to borrow a driveway to turn around. Only once in Ohio. I guess people really hate Hyundai cars.

[Imabigmac]

I've been shot at 3 times in AZ just for needing to borrow a driveway to turn around. Only once in Ohio. I guess people really hate Hyundai cars.

But now if you had a gun you could have shot back, and had a gun fight in a driveway (epic?) and according to this thread that would solve a lot of the issue regrading guns.... 

[daemonowner]

The US has had 37 school shootings this year so far.

New Zealand has had 1 school shooting in it's entire history, in 1912. Man I'm so worried about defending myself from all those armed criminals. I can't get fully-automatic rifles, but I'm sure they can find a way to. All these murders with knives are getting out of hand, we need more firearms!

[cae]

But now if you had a gun you could have shot back, and had a gun fight in a driveway (epic?) and according to this thread that would solve a lot of the issue regrading guns.... 

 

Found the footage, but this doesn't look like a Hyundai..

[RuKiddin06]

How do you know that speeding has increased the actual danger to anyone?  Oh that's right.  The state TOLD YOU SO!  That's statism.

Um, no.

Going faster, decreases the amount of time (and the window of time) you have to react to a change in the road. Going 40 is safer than going 60, which is safer than going 90. Its not rocket science, or "statism". It is simle physics, and logic.

I'm obviously assuming everyone on the road is going the same speed. Going 40 when others are going 60 on the is not safe. 

[RuKiddin06]

Uh, what is wrong with learning to code to learn hacking?

Their argument was that by teaching kids to code "we are helping them become the next hackers." They where worried about them hacking credit card companies and the like. In short: They were technophobes. I tried to ell them that limiting knowledge has never worked out well.

[dizmo]

What? If you adjusted for population, we should see something much closer...

 

Japan: 47

US:      5175

 

(I used the 2002 numbers since it was the last year that matched and seemed more representative of the average of the dates you posted.)

Ermm....your idea of much slower, and mine are obviously quite far apart. Those two numbers are vastly different.

 

I'd challenge anyone here to name where a law has prevented a crime from occurring.

 

Laws are a way for society to legitimize punishing those who violate said laws, they prevent nothing.

That's not entirely true. See, by making it harder to get guns, less crimes will happen.

Will they stop entirely? No, of course not. No one should be that daft. However, you also shouldn't ignore the fact that there is logic there.

Say someone's really mad. They go to buy a gun to kill someone. Two day wait. They calm down that night, and realize how stupid of an idea it would have been.

Or they fail a background check due to mental illness or past offenses, and don't get a gun.

I don't think that guns should be illegal or banned all together. However, there are some things I think need to be more closely looked at.

Registration is great. Lets the gun be traced, but could be more widely adopted. I can just hear the "but I want my privacy!" rants now...

There are guns that simply don't need to be in civilian possession. M16's, MAC10's, fully automatic pistols, stuff like that.

I think it should be limited more to what Canada has as a model. Shotguns and rifles are fairly easy to obtain. Handguns, only in semi auto with small magazines less so.

Guns like those I listed, prohibited. You don't need them to hunt game, and any gun will kill a person (self defense). So why even have them out there? Slim chance that someone else has one too?

Foolish.

Someone could have a dirty bomb. Should we all be allowed to make dirty bombs?

 

You took the words right out of my mouth. Japan is far ahead of the rest of the world in most ways, they have a generally polite society (to my knowledge) that stresses an honor system (again to my knowledge) and that goes a hell of a long way to effecting how people act.

 

It's not just laws, it's culture. We here in the states have so many problems because 

a. We don't have a coherent and prevailing culture

b. We have little to no respect for human life

c,. We generally have an "I want it, therefore I'm entitled to it/deserve it/need it/must have it" attitude. (although I guess this could be described as a coherent and prevailing culture? not sure). We have this attitude that just because someone has more than us, then we deserve more for having less, we've abandoned the idea that people have to earn things for themselves, rather than everything just being handed to them because of some fictional wrong-doing they've suffered as a result of their birth.

 

At least that's what I see, not to mention massive amounts of poverty due to financial instability as a result of the government constantly fucking with things and corporations responding in kind.

I don't have the patience to read through the other 5 pages of comments, but that's very well put.

Generalizing a bit, but more or less true. Especially the entitled bit. I'm shocked at how many people think they have rights to things that just aren't that way.

[Eyal]

What deters others from doing the same even after they've taken him to prison? Those that would do the same have learned to not upload their findings to YouTube. I would argue that making an example out of someone doesn't work, given the prevalence of recreational drug use today and laws forbidding it. I understand it's a different place that doesn't value freedom the same way I do (same with many posters here), but "Because master says so!" isn't a good enough reason for me. That's just my personal take on it; doesn't make it right or wrong.

I do value freedom, but it seems my definition of freedom is a bit different than yours. The law strictly forbids firearms, He could get up to 3.5 years in prison. His claims of not knowing that it's illegal are not valid. If he lives in Japan he should know firearms are prohibited and will not be tolerated. I would probably do the same if I was the judge.

If you commit a crime (with possible jail time) you should expect your freedom to be revoked.

And they can't stop people from 3D printing guns other than by deterring them with serious punishment. It's either this or regulation of tools like a 3D printer or a CNC (I would not accept the latter, this would be much worse).

[daemonowner]

That's not entirely true. See, by making it harder to get guns, less crimes will happen.

Will they stop entirely? No, of course not. No one should be that daft. However, you also shouldn't ignore the fact that there is logic there.

Say someone's really mad. They go to buy a gun to kill someone. Two day wait. They calm down that night, and realize how stupid of an idea it would have been.

Or they fail a background check due to mental illness or past offenses, and don't get a gun.

I don't think that guns should be illegal or banned all together. However, there are some things I think need to be more closely looked at.

Registration is great. Lets the gun be traced, but could be more widely adopted. I can just hear the "but I want my privacy!" rants now...

There are guns that simply don't need to be in civilian possession. M16's, MAC10's, fully automatic pistols, stuff like that.

I think it should be limited more to what Canada has as a model. Shotguns and rifles are fairly easy to obtain. Handguns, only in semi auto with small magazines less so.

Guns like those I listed, prohibited. You don't need them to hunt game, and any gun will kill a person (self defense). So why even have them out there? Slim chance that someone else has one too?

In NZ, fully-automatic weapons are illegal. We have around 1million guns and 4.5 million people, and they're mostly older rifles used for hunting. Pretty comparable, and I'm very happy with our culture with regards to guns. We don't hate them like the Japanese do, we don't love them like the Americans do, and we regulate them because we aren't stupid.

I completely agree with the top line. It's harder to kill people with knives than with guns. That's why we arm our soldiers with guns. I can't understand why so many Americans make these arguments about criminals getting guns anyway and murders still occurring with knives and other weapons besides guns.

[tavirosu]

Don't print out weapons then? Heck in my country I even have the carry my airsoft weapon concealed and not loaded (magazine separate) and only to and after an airsoft match else I get a hefty fine. If I show my airsoft gun in public, except on the range or the place where I play, it's considered a threat and I'm liable as well.

[HalGameGuru]

No one is a good person. Moot point. By your idiotic argument, why regulate explosives? Why regulate atomic/nuclear materials? Everyone's fine, right? You fall into the category of simple-minded. Look up reductio ad absurdum, which is the technique I just used to prove your argument is invalid based on its inability to be applicable to any case.

 

Gun control exists to ensure it doesn't become easy for criminals to obtain severely deadly weapons. Most citizens can't properly use them anyway. Maybe if everyone was required to take a gun safety certification program? Oh, but that apparently violates your freedom? How about my freedom of safety to make sure you don't blow out my shoulder because you're a lousy shot?

There shouldn't be any restrictions. You used to be able to order fully automatic weapons and explosives from sears roebuck, thru the MAIL, a twelve year old could get the stuff. How many schools were blown up with dynamite or tommy guns? How many horror stories of automatic weapons do you hear until prohibition?

 

There is no reason to regulate these things because the only reason there is an issue over them is the system that surrounds them. Without government subsidizing the creation and acceptance of mass murder who would spend the money to create an atomic bomb? WHo would do business with someone who is spending money on MAKING an atomic bomb? Fully auto weapons got regulated because the mob started using them during prohibition, prohibition is what spurred that, not the mob. The drug war and drug laws created the profits and cartels that lead to the murderous system we see. We've had weapons a lot longer than we've had these issues.

 

You have no right to safety, no right to "feeling" secure, you have the right to exercise your self ownership and the ownership of your property up until the point it interferes with the next guy and his rights. If you want to make sure people who buy guns are trained require they go thru a class before you sell them one. It is on the individual purchasing a gun to make sure they are trained enough to own it safely, if they don't when they invariably have an accident it will be on them. In a free society such things would be incentivized through things like insurance and economic ostracism. Same thing with cars, or tools, or chemicals, or a barbecue. How many people are going to set their houses on fire trying to fry a turkey this thanksgiving? If you can curtail my rights to self protection I should have just as much power to curtail your rights to self expression. Self defense is an innate right. It extends from our innate right to self ownership and by extension our right to the consequences of our actions, property and reparations. I have every right to make or own any weapon I so choose, and I am responsible for my actions with such a weapon. If I hurt someone or destroy property without justification or consent I am liable for all those damages. And in a system of property rights and free association and the NAP that would become the norm and the problems would work themselves out.

 

There is NO moral argument for the use of violence or coercion in the curtailing of an innocent persons rights.

[cae]

I do value freedom, but it seems my definition of freedom is a bit different than yours. The law strictly forbids firearms, He could get up to 3.5 years in prison. His claims of not knowing that it's illegal are not valid. If he lives in Japan he should know firearms are prohibited and will not be tolerated. I would probably do the same if I was the judge.

If you commit a crime (with possible jail time) you should expect your freedom to be revoked.

And they can't stop people from 3D printing guns other than by deterring them with serious punishment. It's either this or regulation of tools like a 3D printer or a CNC (I would not accept the latter, this would be much worse).

 

"The law strictly forbids firearms" - For what purpose does this law exist? Violence is already not permitted, regardless of implement. All that law has done in this case is kidnap a man who aggressed against no one. That law, presumably crafted to curtail violence has created a violent situation by being enforced. If you say he committed a crime, show me the victim. If you valued freedom, you would not seek to imprison those who are not aggressors. I realize that the scope of freedom varies from person to person, but this is pretty basic stuff.

 

Not to say "Go ahead and break the law!" It was foolish of him to print the gun, and even more so to broadcast it, but only because he will now be caged - not because the law he broke was principled in any way.

[HalGameGuru]

People can be stopped. A gun makes you unstoppable in a normal situation if you have any level of experience using it. It's not the great equalizer. You and the NRA shills need to step back and look at the damage you have done and the lives you have cost with your ideology, zealotry, and egotism. Guns make everything worse. People aren't good, and inventing more killing tools helps no one. If you want to be helpful, go get Armageddon started or pull an archangel out of the skies to fix everything. The elegance and nobility of war was lost the moment ranged weaponry was conceived. It's only an enabling force for cowards and the arrogant. Being able to kill from a distance is what allows psychopaths to go on killing sprees. How many serial killers do ou hear about these days who strangle/knife their victims? It's in the low double digits.

 

I'm sorry, but, NO. just no. My mother is a MAYBE 120 pound older woman who works late hours, she has a concealed carry permit and I am DARN glad she does. Firearms are a TRUE equalizer because they remove physical size or strength from the realm of oppression. Even people with physical disabilities are avid shooters and quite competent. A little old lady can protect herself with a gun from a big dude with a bat. And that is an IMPORTANT thing.

 

There has never been a nobility of war, if you believe the wanton mass murder of people because they live on the other side of an imaginary line, or they have something we want, or they believe a religion that isn't ours, is a "NOBLE" thing you are part of the problem and any stance you have on this subject is questionable just from the hypocrisy of holding one thing to be true for you and me but something else to be true for people wearing a special uniform or badge.

 

There is nothing more or less "noble" about killing a man with a sword vs. a gun, and there is nothing morally different about a thug mugging you on the street and a nation invading another over oil or money or anything else. The only moral application of force is in defense. And disarming those who do not have the physical prowess to hold their own in a fight is to relegate them to oppression. The mechanism of most all oppression is the state so there is no valid moral argument to disarming anyone, and to make allowances for the state and its minions to maintain the ability to exert unmatched force over the populace is what leads to the tens of millions of people killed by their own governments over the last centuries.

[HalGameGuru]

The US has had 37 school shootings this year so far.

New Zealand has had 1 school shooting in it's entire history, in 1912. Man I'm so worried about defending myself from all those armed criminals. I can't get fully-automatic rifles, but I'm sure they can find a way to. All these murders with knives are getting out of hand, we need more firearms!

 

The VAST majority of which are directly related to drugs and gangs, or known mental or emotional sickness. Still not an argument against your average person owning a gun. Don't forget every year 99.9998% of all legal gun owners hurt nobody with their guns.

[HalGameGuru]

I do value freedom, but it seems my definition of freedom is a bit different than yours. The law strictly forbids firearms, He could get up to 3.5 years in prison. His claims of not knowing that it's illegal are not valid. If he lives in Japan he should know firearms are prohibited and will not be tolerated. I would probably do the same if I was the judge.

If you commit a crime (with possible jail time) you should expect your freedom to be revoked.

And they can't stop people from 3D printing guns other than by deterring them with serious punishment. It's either this or regulation of tools like a 3D printer or a CNC (I would not accept the latter, this would be much worse).

 

I'm wondering if his confusion may have come from the prevalence and popularity of air-soft in Japan. They look true to life and someone not savvy to Japanese law may not realize there are in fact major differences, mechanically, between an airsoft gun and the originals they replicate.

[Eyal]

"The law strictly forbids firearms" - For what purpose does this law exist? Violence is already not permitted, regardless of implement. All that law has done in this case is kidnap a man who aggressed against no one. That law, presumably crafted to curtail violence has created a violent situation by being enforced. If you say he committed a crime, show me the victim. If you valued freedom, you would not seek to imprison those who are not aggressors. I realize that the scope of freedom varies from person to person, but this is pretty basic stuff.

 

Not to say "Go ahead and break the law!" It was foolish of him to print the gun, and even more so to broadcast it, but only because he will now be caged - not because the law he broke was principled in any way.

The problem I see with your argument is "I disagree with this law, I shall ignore it". If you want this law to change, become a politician, or at least write a public letter to one.

Also, this law has been proven very effective in Japan, I'm not saying this should be everywhere, but it works very well in Japan. If you tried this in the US it will not work at all and will do more harm than good.