GPU Miners crash of 2014

[Dietrichw]

http://wccftech.com/gpu-miners-crash-2014-arrives-graphic-card-market-shrinking-fall-40/

 

 

This crash is wrongly attributed to Bitcoin becoming unprofitable (to mine on GPUs) which is silly because Bitcoin became unprofitable to mine on GPUs as soon as the ASICs came online quite some time ago. However soon after Bitcocin; Litecoin rose to glory, which can be called the second tier of Cryptocurrencies followed closely by ALT Coins such as DOGE Coin etc. So the old Bitcoin rigs were simply reconfigured to mine Litecoins and ALTCoins. However now even the second and third generation cryptocurarencies are becoming unprofitable with SCRYPT-ASICs coming online

 

Now the main source behind the recent revisitation of this obvious conundrum is DigiTimes which reports the dGPU market could drop by 40% in Q2

 

 

considering I'm finding 290's in the $200 range on ebay (-edit I got one for $250) .... some came with waterblocks preinstalled

Most of the ebay listings were saying with summer electricity prices they couldn't be profitable with GPUs for mining

This post has been promoted to an article

[CoolBeans]

People still mine?

[TheNinjaNextDor]

Doge to the moon.

[TheEpicCanadian]

I'm really glad I stopped mining before it dropped

[totjup5]

This is the day I've been waiting for :')

[Dietrichw]

This is the day I've been waiting for :')

same here, I was almost hesitant to post this as I didn't want people going on ebay and bidding up the graphics cards I was bidding on

[Almercenary]

At last.  The wall street crash of bitcoin lol. Ebay is a techies wet dream lol.

[Admire]

I really should be above this, but the absolute shitstorm of dickheads who are into bitcoins, really makes it tough to feel bad for these tools who just hyped this to no end.  How many topics have we had here by "innocents" who just didn't know better about getting into mining? They were tricked into what is fundamentally a pyramid scheme.....We have a great board here where you weren't knocked in the head for dissent, but most other tech boards just had countless of these bitcoin lemmings.

 

Really, REALLY doubt that many people earned enough to justify their mining investments.

[LOST TALE]

just have an admin system control the currency refreshed instead of the whole plannet. and have it be a trusted entity.

 

That, after currnecy is already alive and distributed.

[Ren]

I really should be above this, but the absolute shitstorm of dickheads who are into bitcoins, really makes it tough to feel bad for these tools who just hyped this to no end.  How many topics have we had here by "innocents" who just didn't know better about getting into mining? They were tricked into what is fundamentally a pyramid scheme.....We have a great board here where you weren't knocked in the head for dissent, but most other tech boards just had countless of these bitcoin lemmings.

 

Really, REALLY doubt that many people earned enough to justify their mining investments.

 

 

To be fair, people looked at it like idiots. "Free money", "no effort", "low entry requirements",.. The worst part is that people told other people which also ended up telling other people and soon enough, most people involved with both gaming and tech had heard of mining. It's funny because mining gets more difficult and less profitable with more people doing it, but they broke through the sweet spot that got people paid easily the same way they killed mining.

 

 

I'm one of those gamers that has played countless hours of MMOs or online multiplayer games with a currency that can't be duplicated and an economy that is at least somewhat "stable" or has some form of consistency when it comes to item or work value. Sometimes you feel that these markets, although virtual, can mimic the real world, but you still see all the flaws within them that make them nothing like the real world. Coin mining? Looked exactly like that.

 

Kind of was a pyramid schemey-looking beast, but I'd say it was just too simple to last long.

 

 

 

Btw, who here is curious of whether or not Newegg (or other retailers) had been using large stocks of their cards for mining in the background?

[RuecanOnRails]

I really should be above this, but the absolute shitstorm of dickheads who are into bitcoins, really makes it tough to feel bad for these tools who just hyped this to no end.  How many topics have we had here by "innocents" who just didn't know better about getting into mining? They were tricked into what is fundamentally a pyramid scheme.....We have a great board here where you weren't knocked in the head for dissent, but most other tech boards just had countless of these bitcoin lemmings.

 

Really, REALLY doubt that many people earned enough to justify their mining investments.

 

 

To be fair, people looked at it like idiots. "Free money", "no effort", "low entry requirements",.. The worst part is that people told other people which also ended up telling other people and soon enough, most people involved with both gaming and tech had heard of mining. It's funny because mining gets more difficult and less profitable with more people doing it, but they broke through the sweet spot that got people paid easily the same way they killed mining.

 

 

I'm one of those gamers that has played countless hours of MMOs or online multiplayer games with a currency that can't be duplicated and an economy that is at least somewhat "stable" or has some form of consistency when it comes to item or work value. Sometimes you feel that these markets, although virtual, can mimic the real world, but you still see all the flaws within them that make them nothing like the real world. Coin mining? Looked exactly like that.

 

Kind of was a pyramid schemey-looking beast, but I'd say it was just too simple to last long.

 

 

 

Btw, who here is curious of whether or not Newegg (or other retailers) had been using large stocks of their cards for mining in the background?

 

Were some of the people idiots for being interested and chasing the illusion of free money, or as I say, false profits (heh)? Yes, definitely. Though It's it not a pyramid scheme by any stretch of the imagination.

 

There is no such thing as "free" money, even with Bitcoin and crypto currency mining. Equal effort put in, receives equal reward; Mining is a zero-sum game which is what the sheeple failed to understand. The incentivization is designed in such a way that spending $1000 on "mining" equipment should hopefully balance out and yield roughly $1000 after running costs over a long term period. It was never a method of free money, rather an ingenious way to secure a network without large overhead costs to the people contributing to it.

 

People were not tricked, or otherwise coerced into mining, the general idea was always if you had the existing hardware there was no upfront costs other than current running costs. If you didn't have the hardware, recommendations to go out and buy hardware by the truckload was a rare sight and quickly shot down. Getting involved with Bitcoin and crypto-currency mining out of greed is not profitable, and never has been. People were victims due to their own lack of knowledge and the continued spread of misinformation.

[Nomelas]

I'd rather not buy a second hand mining GPU... the thing has probably already worn past half it's lifespan

[Dietrichw]

I'd rather not buy a second hand mining GPU... the thing has probably already worn past half it's lifespan

for the right price I will since they are designed to never go over 95 in AMD's case, even with 24/7 use I would expect to have it work for 3-4 years which is fine because by then I'll have more money being out of college and there would be enough performance improvement and feature to justify a new card in 3-4 years

[flibberdipper]

I'm surprised people still even mine to begin with. I'm just part of a pool so I can get small amounts of free moneys.

[Alex(PlayMedium)]

So now I'm sitting on 20k dogecoin... I hope in a few years it'll be worth something ^^

[Admire]

Were some of the people idiots for being interested and chasing the illusion of free money, or as I say, false profits (heh)? Yes, definitely. Though It's it not a pyramid scheme by any stretch of the imagination.

 

There is no such thing as "free" money, even with Bitcoin and crypto currency mining. Equal effort put in, receives equal reward; Mining is a zero-sum game which is what the sheeple failed to understand. The incentivization is designed in such a way that spending $1000 on "mining" equipment should hopefully balance out and yield roughly $1000 after running costs over a long term period. It was never a method of free money, rather an ingenious way to secure a network without large overhead costs to the people contributing to it.

 

People were not tricked, or otherwise coerced into mining, the general idea was always if you had the existing hardware there was no upfront costs other than current running costs. If you didn't have the hardware, recommendations to go out and buy hardware by the truckload was a rare sight and quickly shot down. Getting involved with Bitcoin and crypto-currency mining out of greed is not profitable, and never has been. People were victims due to their own lack of knowledge and the continued spread of misinformation.

 

Sorry, but that is just not true. There were so many people who were convinced into buying huge mining rigs, combined with an "Oh my god, the rest of the world is so stupid that they aren't getting on this bandwagon.....see you later losers when we are millionaires!"

Spend one day on bitcointalk 7-8 months ago, and you would see nothing else...

 

 

To be fair, people looked at it like idiots. "Free money", "no effort", "low entry requirements",.. The worst part is that people told other people which also ended up telling other people and soon enough, most people involved with both gaming and tech had heard of mining. It's funny because mining gets more difficult and less profitable with more people doing it, but they broke through the sweet spot that got people paid easily the same way they killed mining.

 

 

I'm one of those gamers that has played countless hours of MMOs or online multiplayer games with a currency that can't be duplicated and an economy that is at least somewhat "stable" or has some form of consistency when it comes to item or work value. Sometimes you feel that these markets, although virtual, can mimic the real world, but you still see all the flaws within them that make them nothing like the real world. Coin mining? Looked exactly like that.

 

Kind of was a pyramid schemey-looking beast, but I'd say it was just too simple to last long.

 

 

 

Btw, who here is curious of whether or not Newegg (or other retailers) had been using large stocks of their cards for mining in the background?

 

Agreed

[Mooshi]

I have a couple of a friends who are, to be blunt, obnoxious assholes on the subject. 

 

You see, back when mining was still profitable for some and the R9 cards just coming out + mantel, I was really hyping up AMD for a bit. Nvidia gpus do suck for mining, none of this has really changed, I was stating how much better Radeon cards were for this task. Was also genuinely interested in this new API. The price to performance of these cards pre inflation were also great. When a friend countered with how bad Ati was, I had to facepalm since Ati hasn't existed in ages and the AMD takeover feels like forever ago now. Keep in mind, this was also when these altcoins had higher value. In fact, I ragged on how stupid cryptocurrency was and had members in this very forum telling me how full of shit I was..my my how did that majorly backfire in their faces.

 

I did try mining after trying to be more open minded, end result? High powerbill that month plus useless coins with low value. I stopped that very month and interest kept declining. Eventually, the hyperinflation caused by liteminers was starting to bring back my hatred of this scheme. Once the bubble popped and the cards tanked for cheap ebay prices..even a member on LTT posting how he regretted getting involved with the amount of hardware he invested it not paying off, I knew this was dead. /Now/ when I interject about gpu suggestions if a friend is curious about upgrade path, I tell them if their card can make it, wait till 2015 for the 20nm chips. I try to tell them how amazingly efficient the GTX 750 Ti is and how it'd only get way better. Suggesting Nvidia now prompts them to bring up old irrelevant crap about how I was suggesting AMD back then and suddenly Nvidia now. It makes me wish it were legal to take a hammer to their faces. 

 

What changed? GPU mining became completely useless, the wasted electricity cost is bad, Nvidia released the 750 Ti which only gives great hope for next gen GPUs. Because OMG it's impossible to have an opinion change within /months/. When something challenges an opinion and proves it wrong, only a deluded fool continues to support something. 

 

I for one have more interest in a new gpu that has a high performance to watt ratio than give a damn about cryptocurrency these days. As stated by a few others, many did waste lots of cash and treated it like a non effort get rich quick scheme. For those who mined with existing hardware that made a nice profit and stopped in time, you did it right. For those that bought lots of hardware banking on this being a full proof success, you did it wrong.

[Victorious Secret]

Does this mean GPUs can come back down to reasonable prices? 

 

*Checks eBay*

Yup. R9 290s for 200-250. Who cares if they were mined with? Get 2 for 400-500 and have a field day. Hell, get two anyways. Why not? Thats near flagship performance for what amounts to entry level money. I approve. 

[DLM_012]

Not even in the market for a new GPU but man I might pick one up with these prices...

[RuecanOnRails]

Sorry, but that is just not true. There were so many people who were convinced into buying huge mining rigs, combined with an "Oh my god, the rest of the world is so stupid that they aren't getting on this bandwagon.....see you later losers when we are millionaires!"

Spend one day on bitcointalk 7-8 months ago, and you would see nothing else...

 

 

I've spent years on bitcointalk forums under a few various names and I disagree with that sentiment. Every rally in bitcoins history has been met with greedy new comers followed by the market being over bought, then a swift correction. That correction has settled higher than the previous highs with no exceptions to date. That's not to say it's a pattern, a trend, or that will continue, but based on past performance and analysis even the layman see there might be something more to this whole Bitcoin thing even if the concept of mining doesn't make sense to them. Under their own volition they chose to invest in mining hardware versus buying coin directly; Despite the many people who recommended at least a split "investment" between hardware and coins. Their mind was made up that they were buying hardware for greed and profit. Creation of pumping threads and circle jerking that went on in various forums was a way for the ill-informed and misinformed to try and justify their recent or potential purchase. They had little to no intention of learning about, or using Bitcoin which is what led to their poor purchases.

 

Even the potentially poor, and perhaps misguided purchases of GPU farms are still profitable to run today. When mining is done correctly, they still more than pay for their running costs and can see a return. As I said above, the incentive structure in mining is a zero-sum game; Being driven purely by greed and profit will be your downfall in this emerging economy. The sell off of gpu's is a more pre-preemptive than immediate move with the introduction of highly cost efficient scrypt ASICs. GPU mining isn't going anywhere, it's shifting to different algorithms.

 

 

Crypto-currencies are actively changing the world, global commerce, and how we view money; are you suggesting that the idea of an "early" adopter doesn't merit high risk high reward enthusiasm? Going back 8 months ago, if you purchased bitcoin it's value is now 4 times greater today. The risk would certainly have paid off. If you purchased Bitcoins at nearly any point in it's history and held for 1 year you would not have experienced a loss. 

[juretrn]

Some might see the cheap 290s on eBay and think of buying. However, think of this: do you really want a GPU that ran 24/7 at 100% load, possibly OC'ed?

[RuecanOnRails]

Some might see the cheap 290s on eBay and think of buying. However, think of this: do you really want a GPU that ran 24/7 at 100% load, possibly OC'ed?

 

The majority of miners ran and cared for the cards far better than any general consumer.

 

Instability, and downtime directly reflected mining potential. Mining requires a balance of settings including power consumption, not always a max overclock. Most cards will have been undervolted and run at settings that maximized hashrate without hitting stability or temperature issues. Buying a previous mining card, you should be able to ask the seller anything you could possibly want to know about the card such as the upper limits of it's stability for overclocks, underclocks, efficiencies, running temps, fan speeds, etc. Unless they are willfully committing fraud, you can trust and find out far more about a miners card than a card from a random "gamer".

[MonkeyFace]

Some might see the cheap 290s on eBay and think of buying. However, think of this: do you really want a GPU that ran 24/7 at 100% load, possibly OC'ed?

 

Buy MSI, XFX, or Gigabyte. I believe they take RMA based on serial numbers if you have a problem.

 

Just make sure the GPU comes with all the stickers. 

[Mistgrim]

Been waiting toooooo long for this

[Ren]

The majority of miners ran and cared for the cards far better than any general consumer.

 

Instability, and downtime directly reflected mining potential. Mining requires a balance of settings including power consumption, not always a max overclock. Most cards will have been undervolted and run at settings that maximized hashrate without hitting stability or temperature issues. Buying a previous mining card, you should be able to ask the seller anything you could possibly want to know about the card such as the upper limits of it's stability for overclocks, underclocks, efficiencies, running temps, fan speeds, etc. Unless they are willfully committing fraud, you can trust and find out far more about a miners card than a card from a random "gamer".

I really think you're giving far too many people the benefit of doubt when it comes to that.

 

Yes, a good miner will want to have all the efficiencies checked out to maximize profit/kWH and be sure their hardware lasts as long as possible to pay itself off but you're talking about Hawaii and Hawaii XT video cards, as well as what I believe would be Sapphire Dual-X/TOXICs and Asus DCUII for the most common mining cards, which are notorious for their issues anyway.

 

Gotta keep in mind that getting some of your money back is better than getting no money back, esp. when you have thousands of dollars invested in hardware you will never use again. Some people might think it's cool that they have 13 7950s and a bunch of 280Xs sitting in a crate deck in their garage or basement, never being used again, but I think that reimbursing part of your $11,000+ investment might be a good idea when coins are all but worthless to mine to the vast majority of these miners. And now multiply that one situation when buying a GPU by a few thousand, perhaps looking outside of ebay but keeping in mind how inconsistent your good results from a used card will be.

 

Ghetto mounting box fans all over the place instead of using what should be adequate server bank AC for such operations probably doesn't help or give good impressions either.. And, as always, 24/7 operation in these conditions will be far worse than 4-10 hours of 80-90% usage during gaming in the average gaming rig.