New to Linux, why does it do this

[Zeke_]

Hey yall. I’m new to Linux, and ended up following SomeOrdinaryGamer’s guide for setting up Linux mint 21.3 with the Cinnamon DE. I’ve been really enjoying how easy and usable it is with the exception of *literally anything not included in the software manager app*
For example, I tried to download an indie game on itch.io that runs natively on Linux. I follow the instructions on the site which was to extract the folder and simply run the file, but when I do that it asks me what app I want to launch it with. How am I supposed to know? It was a .ags file. I wish I could say this is the only time it’s happened but it’s not. I tried to install openrgb, again it asks me what app I want to open the file with. I have no clue. I’m used to just clicking on applications and having windows open it with whatever makes sense without input from me. What am I missing here? I just don’t understand how your average joe like me is supposed to have all of these things to open up different files on tap without knowing anything about what should be required. Do I need to update my software manager? Do I need to install some packages? I have no idea. I want to continue my overall good experience so far on Linux but this is particularly frustrating since I feel like I’m basically not able to do anything that’s not in the included software manager.

 

[CosmicEmotion]

You need to go into properties of the file and mark it as executable. It's a security measure.

 

Linux is not Windows, so please keep that in mind as you're learning the new OS.

[RONOTHAN##]

3 minutes ago, Zeke_ said:

What am I missing here?

Pretty sure you're opening the wrong files. For software distributed the way you're referring to, that's usually done through app images with the .appimage extension tag. Those should just launch like normal .exe files in Windows. From what it sounds like, you're extracting the .appimage file and trying to open one of the items inside, which would cause the issues you're running into. 

[Zeke_]

5 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

You need to go into properties of the file and mark it as executable. It's a security measure.

 

Linux is not Windows, so please keep that in mind as you're learning the new OS.

Ah I didn’t even know that was a thing… facepalm. I will try that. Do you have any recommendations on where to learn stuff like that about the differences between those GUI based functions compared to Windows? I know the basics of the terminal commands (how to navigate through the directories, open them, create basic text files, etc.) and that stuff generally makes sense to me thanks to a free linux class I took through cisco a while back but I struggle hardcore trying to do things in the GUI that aren’t ultra basic functions.

[CosmicEmotion]

13 minutes ago, Zeke_ said:

Ah I didn’t even know that was a thing… facepalm. I will try that. Do you have any recommendations on where to learn stuff like that about the differences between those GUI based functions compared to Windows? I know the basics of the terminal commands (how to navigate through the directories, open them, create basic text files, etc.) and that stuff generally makes sense to me thanks to a free linux class I took through cisco a while back but I struggle hardcore trying to do things in the GUI that aren’t ultra basic functions.

I mean GUI specific things are pretty similar. I would advise on learning the Linux filesystem structure to learn where each file resides since it's extrmely different from Windows.

 

Some directories to keep in mind are

 

~/.local/share/

~/.config/

~/.var/

/mnt

/media

/run/media

 

 

[Kisai]

50 minutes ago, Zeke_ said:

 with the exception of *literally anything not included in the software manager app*
For example, I tried to download an indie game on itch.io that runs natively on Linux. I follow the instructions on the site which was to extract the folder and simply run the file

 

Linux doesn't work like Windows does. If you're being prompted in a GUI, it's because a file association has not been made between the thing you're trying to launch and the thing it should launch with.

 

One "Linux as a desktop OS" core problems comes back, repeatedly to issues like this where it's behavior deviates from expectations because the OS distro has a NIMBY mindset. "We're not windows, we should do this plainly obvious thing in a very round-a-bout matter because we should be different" instead of "everyone knows that double clicking/tapping on an icon means it should be launched.

 

That said, i don't recommend Linux of any variety for playing games. Period. Even if you're a computer expert, the extra amount of effort to make things work correctly, often outstrips the benefit of using Linux.

 

[OddOod]

15 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That said, i don't recommend Linux of any variety for playing games. Period. Even if you're a computer expect, the extra amount of effort to make things work correctly, often outstrips the benefit of using Linux.

 

How is the experience using a VM? I know some competitive games throw a fit, but my understanding was that you can usually get it to work pretty well otherwise

[Nayr438]

14 minutes ago, OddOod said:

How is the experience using a VM? I know some competitive games throw a fit, but my understanding was that you can usually get it to work pretty well otherwise

You pretty much need a secondary GPU to passthrough to it and a lot of AntiCheats have started actively checking to see if it's in a VM and consider it a bannable offense.
It's mixed, if you play single player games from steam then your probably fine, venture outside of that and it's a mixed bag.
For Proton/Wine Compatibility can always check https://areweanticheatyet.com/ and https://www.protondb.com/ but just because it works today doesn't mean it will tomorrow.

For instance I got locked temporarily out of Anno1800 because the ubisoft launcher updated and broke compat for a couple months, had a similiar issue in the past with GTA V and the Rockstar Launcher.
Another recent example. Roblox worked on wine, then broke compat with a new anticheat, added wine support, then blocked wine after they seen a rise in people moving to linux to cheat, because of the limitations of how AntiCheat works on Linux.

[CosmicEmotion]

26 minutes ago, Kisai said:

That said, i don't recommend Linux of any variety for playing games. Period. Even if you're a computer expert, the extra amount of effort to make things work correctly, often outstrips the benefit of using Linux.

 

Linux is fine for playing games, in a lot of instances better, simpler and more stable than Windows.

[Kisai]

Just now, OddOod said:

How is the experience using a VM? I know some competitive games throw a fit, but my understanding was that you can usually get it to work pretty well otherwise

Relative mouse cursor position problems plague games that want to, or only operate full screen. This is already a problem in Windows when you force a full-screen game into windowed mode with DXWND. VM's complicate this.

 

The other side of this problem is virtual GPU's tend to ... just not work. You need to be able to access the actual GPU, and the best, and sometimes only way to do this is by letting the iGPU operate in the host OS and the dGPU in the client OS. You get around the relative window problems by simply plugging in a second mouse to use with the VM that only the client OS can see. So at that point you're basically just using the same keyboard and sound hardware from the host. 

 

If you are intending to play Windows games, on Linux, you should just play them on Windows unless the developer expressly blesses running it on Linux. This will keep you from getting banned in games using anti-cheat, and from getting blocked from broken DRM schemes.

 

I'm not saying "do not", but I am saying set your expectations MUCH lower for getting games to work on Linux. If it does not have a Linux binary, or isn't known to use a Linux native (eg Unity) game engine, then any mucking around you do with WINE or DXVK or Proton is as close as you're going to get.

 

On the other hand, if a game actually uses OpenGL or Vulkan, then even if it doesn't have a Linux native port, it might work under Proton/Wine with some coaxing. It's always going to be the DirectX and Windows native audio API's that are going to be an obstacle.

[Kisai]

6 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Linux is fine for playing games, in a lot of instances better, simpler and more stable than Windows.

No. that is not true, never been true, and will never be true.

 

Linux always requires you to do more than "double click the icon" to get even simple "linux native" games to work, and you have to jump through lots of hoops to get WINE , DXVK, Proton and so forth to operate, and there will always be a few games DRM/Anti-Cheat that will prevent you from doing this altogether. 

 

[CosmicEmotion]

3 minutes ago, Kisai said:

No. that is not true, never been true, and will never be true.

 

Linux always requires you to do more than "double click the icon" to get even simple "linux native" games to work, and you have to jump through lots of hoops to get WINE , DXVK, Proton and so forth to operate, and there will always be a few games DRM/Anti-Cheat that will prevent you from doing this altogether. 

 

Tell me you've never used Linux without telling me you've never used Linux. Or even a Steam Deck for that matter.

[Zeke_]

43 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

 

That said, i don't recommend Linux of any variety for playing games. Period. Even if you're a computer expert, the extra amount of effort to make things work correctly, often outstrips the benefit of using Linux.

 

Maybe I’m just lucky but, even as a beginner I have had a very easy time playing every game I’ve tried so far in my steam library using Proton. The only game I’ve had trouble with was that one I downloaded for free that I mentioned.

[thevictor390]

2 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Tell me you've never used Linux without telling me you've never used Linux. Or even a Steam Deck for that matter.

I own a Steam Deck and I can't think of any way that Linux is "simpler" than Windows for gaming. At best, it's the same level of simplicity. Click download, click run. That works really often. But I also have many experiences with that not working and having to do various tweaks.

1) Sleeping Dogs - edit text file to manually fix resolution or the game won't display

2) Elite Dangerous - use a third party tool to download a community Proton Build and change the Steam settings to use that build instead (Proton-GE)

3) Akiba's Trip - cutscenes and sound don't work, full stop. No solution. Best I could get was silent, upside-down and backwards videos (seriously)

4) Literally anything not distributed through Steam - you're going to have to set up Lutris, or PlayOnLinux, or WINE, or add the game to Steam manually for Proton, which means you are also going to have to decide which of those things you want to learn how to do in the first place.

 

And that's just off the top of my head.

[Nayr438]

24 minutes ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Tell me you've never used Linux without telling me you've never used Linux. Or even a Steam Deck for that matter.

If Kisai is so wrong, let me know how Valorant, Sniper Elite 2, Civilization V (Native), or a multi disc game works. No third part patches from a clean Install with no knowledge of WINE or DXVK/VKD3D. I made sure to include most of the examples from Kisai post (AntiCheat, DRM, Native). Outside of most single player games on Steam, everything Kisai said is pretty accurate.

Maybe these things don't affect you, if so then good for you, but Linux is not a overall better experience for gaming.

[BoomerDutch]

Ah truly muda enjoyer.

Respect+

 

Welcome to linux world where everything is wrong yet right.

 

*Everyone saying you need secondary gpu*

Meanwhile I'm running internal gpu as host and external gpu to VM seamless fps.

 

Swithin' between batocera arch and windows.

 

*Shrug*

 

Don't take everyone word, try it out till it breaks just reinstall and continue living.

 

Get rid of those invasive anticheat that wont let you play as linux user.

 

Plenty games with anticheat allows linux users you can find on protonDB

 

I've dropped lots of games that wont let you play as linux user.

[wasab]

5 hours ago, CosmicEmotion said:

Tell me you've never used Linux without telling me you've never used Linux. Or even a Steam Deck for that matter.

Some people are just confidently wrong. They believe what they say and say it confidently as fact even if factually wrong. What amazes me is how many people, especially laymen, would believe it as long as these mixed in some misunderstood, misued, and abused jargons from the internet. 

 

That said, Linux games do break a lot, even the NATIVE linux games. I have several Linux games from feral that no longer work. A couple from paradox interactive too(Victoria 3 no longer worked). A lot of it has to do with nvidia drivers. Vic3 can not detect my descrete gpu for example while others broke because of some xyz absence or incompatibility of some shared libary the game rely on. All of these can be fixed if devs do good quality QA, roll out patches, and fix their games but they don't do this on Linux, I am pretty sure windows is the only os they ever test their games on. People have more luck running windows games via steam play than playing native linux versions for some games these days. 

 

Open source games are a different matter. If maintain well, these will run. If they don't run on Linux, more likely than not, they won't run on windows or any other operating system for that matter either. 

[CosmicEmotion]

3 hours ago, thevictor390 said:

I own a Steam Deck and I can't think of any way that Linux is "simpler" than Windows for gaming. At best, it's the same level of simplicity. Click download, click run. That works really often. But I also have many experiences with that not working and having to do various tweaks.

1) Sleeping Dogs - edit text file to manually fix resolution or the game won't display

2) Elite Dangerous - use a third party tool to download a community Proton Build and change the Steam settings to use that build instead (Proton-GE)

3) Akiba's Trip - cutscenes and sound don't work, full stop. No solution. Best I could get was silent, upside-down and backwards videos (seriously)

4) Literally anything not distributed through Steam - you're going to have to set up Lutris, or PlayOnLinux, or WINE, or add the game to Steam manually for Proton, which means you are also going to have to decide which of those things you want to learn how to do in the first place.

 

And that's just off the top of my head.

Enter ProtonGE. But in any case having FSR in all games on the Deck is a simple toggle. Try to do that in Windows. That's just one example. Lutris is a launcher for all launchers, also another example. I think you just haven't researched all your options in Linux.

[CosmicEmotion]

3 hours ago, Nayr438 said:

If Kisai is so wrong, let me know how Valorant, Sniper Elite 2, Civilization V (Native), or a multi disc game works. No third part patches from a clean Install with no knowledge of WINE or DXVK/VKD3D. I made sure to include most of the examples from Kisai post (AntiCheat, DRM, Native). Outside of most single player games on Steam, everything Kisai said is pretty accurate.

Maybe these things don't affect you, if so then good for you, but Linux is not a overall better experience for gaming.

I love how you sent 2 specific examples of games that don't work on Linux. What about all the older games that crap their pants on Windows but work flawlessly out of the box on Linux? Some examples would include Final Fantasy 13, Assassin's Creed 1 and older Tomb Raider titles. Unbelievably Linux is more compatible in general in comparison to Windows.

 

Civ 5 works under Proton so it works out of the box pretty much.

 

I understand you people are biased towards Linux and I hate to break your bubble but Linux gaming in general is way easier than Windows.

[CosmicEmotion]

1 hour ago, wasab said:

Some people are just confidently wrong. They believe what they say and say it confidently as fact even if factually wrong. What amazes me is how many people, especially laymen, would believe it as long as these mixed in some misunderstood, misued, and abused jargons from the internet. 

 

That said, Linux games do break a lot, even the NATIVE linux games. I have several Linux games from feral that no longer work. A couple from paradox interactive too(Victoria 2 no longer worked). A lot of it has to do with nvidia drivers. Vic2 can not detect my descrete gpu for example while others broke because of sone xyz absence or incompatibility of some shared libary the game rely on. All of these can be fixed if devs do good quality QA, roll out patches, and fix their games but they don't this on Linux, I am pretty sure windows is the only os they ever test their games on. People have more luck running windows games via steam play than playing native linux versions for some games these days. 

 

Open source games are a different matter. If maintain well, these will run. If they don't run on Linux, more likely than not, they won't run on windows or any other operating system for that matter either. 

 

This is an absolutely true comment. Native games suck on Linux. That's why you always use Proton if you can (meaning the game doesn't use some form of anticheat that is not available in Proton like VAC). Beyond that, Linux gaming is pretty amazing on Proton. Some specific games work even better natively than on Proton like Valheim as well.

[Kisai]

4 hours ago, Nayr438 said:

If Kisai is so wrong, let me know how Valorant, Sniper Elite 2, Civilization V (Native), or a multi disc game works. No third part patches from a clean Install with no knowledge of WINE or DXVK/VKD3D. I made sure to include most of the examples from Kisai post (AntiCheat, DRM, Native). Outside of most single player games on Steam, everything Kisai said is pretty accurate.

Maybe these things don't affect you, if so then good for you, but Linux is not a overall better experience for gaming.

Many people will come out of the woodwork to say "Linux is great at (insert thing)" and then show no proof of it being true.

 

Gaming is one of those. It's been true ever since downloading and booting ISO of Linux was possible. Many people install Linux, fiddle around with it to get that one game working, and then format it and reinstall Windows because they want to play something that isn't 20 years old.

 

I'm someone who's been around since DOS 3.2, and I know how to get crappy games to work on Dosbox. I know how to get crappy DRM-encumbered games on Windows to work. The underlying theme is that most of these game developers do not give Linux a chance, do not care to QA Linux native binaries, because Linux is a rapidly moving target, where as Windows is not. Then you get Anti-cheat programs that are invasive and ineffective.

 

Meanwhile.

It's less annoying to compile for Linux, but even then, why bother, the users are just going to use Proton anyway when that Linux binary stops working. 

 

Like maybe we should just read the writing on the wall that Linux gaming is dead, and Linux users have to rely on Steam's version of Proton or they don't get to play at all. If Valve ever stops updating it, or some game devs (eg Epic) never want to put their games on Steam, then you don't get it on Linux, at all.

 

You only see Linux binaries when the target is Android. Look in the Unity exports of many mobile games, you will see it's a Linux binary. Yet, you can not run that Linux binary on any version of Linux that isn't ARM Android. But because there was multiple processor targets for Linux, sometimes you find an x86-64 binary, that will run on on an Android development emulator. It still will not play on desktop Linux.

 

There are no AAA games for Linux unless they are built in Unity or Source engine. Even when Unity supports exports to Linux, often the developers do not bother. That's another platform to support and QA test, and likely won't exist by the time the game is released.

 

There is no stable OS for Linux. You can't install Linux in 2013 and still be using it in 2024 because the entire package hierarchy will demand you upgrade it, or the OS Itself will block you being able to use newer binaries that depend on OS-installed dependencies.

 

Like let's not fool ourselves. The reason "Proton" has been the answer for getting Windows games running on Linux, is because that gives games a stable platform to run on. That still isn't native. Valve could always cease working on Proton, or worse, Microsoft could change how Windows binaries work that would prevent interfacing them with Proton. Proton is not the answer to Linux gaming, it's merely the bandaid.

[linuxChips2600]

7 hours ago, Kisai said:

One "Linux as a desktop OS" core problems comes back, repeatedly to issues like this where it's behavior deviates from expectations because the OS distro has a NIMBY mindset. "We're not windows, we should do this plainly obvious thing in a very round-a-bout matter because we should be different" instead of "everyone knows that double clicking/tapping on an icon means it should be launched.

Not to completely discredit you on this, given how much pain I suffered with daily driving Linux before switching back to a main Windows OS (switched back since I got a new laptop and wanted the familiar convenience of Windows), but do you have any specific evidence of this that you may link here publicly? It would truly be a shame if what you're saying is true, but last time I checked most software developers in general want end-user actions to not feel so painful (e.g. Valve with their hard work making ACO for linux gaming, the Keepassxc developers working tirelessly to bring a good password database manager to the masses), so I'm a bit surprised that you'd say this, albeit not totally shocked given some behaviors and words I've seen from at least a few FOSS fanatics (cue Linus Torvalds cursing out kernel devs).

[wasab]

52 minutes ago, linuxChips2600 said:

given how much pain I suffered with daily driving Linux before switching back to a main Windows OS 

Try steam deck buddy. It beats out nientendo switch as a gaming console. Heck, I used to play bootlegged nientendo 3ds and switch games on Linux via an emulator, mostly pokemons, from 3rd gen on Gameboy advance all the way to the lastest gen scarlet and violet for the switch, run smooth as butter(please don't sue me nientendo). 

 

Problem arise when people want to play the latest Windows triple As or when the devs no longer update/fix their games for the latest version of the distros(looking at you feral) or roll out some updates to their games that break on Linux(looking at you paradox interactive). 

[linuxChips2600]

Just now, wasab said:

Try steam deck buddy.

Appreciate your suggestion, but unfortunately I am not really a gamer and much more of a software dev. Glad to hear that the deck has served you well tho.

[wasab]

2 hours ago, linuxChips2600 said:

Appreciate your suggestion, but unfortunately I am not really a gamer 

Nope, i never had a steam deck although, you can use it as a desktop as well. You just need to exit out of steam and into desktop mode. It does regular desktop stuffs just fine. 

 

2 hours ago, linuxChips2600 said:

 much more of a software dev.

Unless you are working with windows only applications and technology, you should be more than comfortable with developing in a Linux, or at least an unix like enviorment. All IDEs are avaliable, minus the platform exclusive xcode and visual studio of course. In fact, it is pretty much unavoidable for many software dev, especially fullstack web dev. All web frameworks like node, asp net, php ect are all available and cross-platform on Linux and are generally meant to be hosted on Linux web servers. For government and many corporate/enterprise dev, POSIX compatibility and POSIX compatible softwares is in fact a requirement. It is good to get familiar even if you don't daily drive. Most people generally code on windows or macos machines(for web applications) and deploy/test the stuffs to/on linux via ssh but developing locally on Linux itself is a great experience too. I had done it professionally for a couple of years before my current company force me to use mac as my work computer